Internship year?

[Zerosixjt]

What is the path internship year like? Schedule, workload, etc?

Thanks

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[mlw03]

depends on the program. but very different from a clinical intern year in that it's all pathology all the time. hours can range from 40/week on a CP rotation at a chill program to 79.9 hours on surg path at a demanding program. in any case, it's a steeeeeeep learning curve since med school provides very little preparation for a pathology residency.

 

[Zerosixjt]

I am about to enter my second year, so I have some time to prepare still. Is there any specific experience that I should try to gain (such as what kind of exposure I want from a volunteer program) before I enter into path.

 

[yaah]

There are lots of previous threads on similar subjects here- browse through old threads, that might give you some ideas. I am also sure that pathologists at your med school would be happy to talk to you about the field if you go and talk to them and express interest.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

depends on the program. but very different from a clinical intern year in that it's all pathology all the time. hours can range from 40/week on a CP rotation at a chill program to 79.9 hours on surg path at a demanding program. in any case, it's a steeeeeeep learning curve since med school provides very little preparation for a pathology residency.

Don't lie to the young whipper-snapper, mlw. Dude, we work like 100+ hour weeks, every week. We take q2 call. Surgeons yell at us. Our attendings yell at us. We are tortured by prostate chips. I suggest you look to another field at this young stage of your medical training.


I find it interesting that of the people who come over to this forum, the ones who probably have zero interest in path at all, are the ones who, with their very first questions ask things pertaining to "work load" and "schedule" as well as "can I be a ******* and do this", on a perpetual quest trying to find the holy grail of medicine where they can work 2 hours a week and make 200K/yr (you should go over to the derm forum).

 

[yaah]

I find it interesting that of the people who come over to this forum, the ones who probably have zero interest in path at all, are the ones who, with their very first questions ask things pertaining to "work load" and "schedule" as well as "can I be a ******* and do this", on a perpetual quest trying to find the holy grail of medicine where they can work 2 hours a week and make 200K/yr (you should go over to the derm forum).

I have always found it interesting that the most successful and well regarded (and probably highly compensated) pathologists I have met are usually the hardest working also. In our department, I have tried to pay attention to attending work hours. First ones in are usually the AP director, surg path director, and our most eminent surgical pathologist. They are also the last ones to leave. They are probably also the people who could go into private practice and command the highest salary with less work. It's not a coincidence! But somehow lots of younger, inexperienced people think it is.

There really aren't any good shortcuts to success. If there were, it would be so popular that everyone would do it and it would become a less successful career. It would show up in self help, "How to" books and all that crap.

The best way to a successful career is to find something you like doing, and hopefully that you do well, and work hard at it. If you're lucky and/or innovative or unique, you will be wildly successful. If you're not, you will still likely be successful enough to be happy. However, if it's a career you don't enjoy or aren't that good at, you're far less likely to be lucky, innovate, or unique, and will have to struggle to be adequate.

Many people think one shortcut to happiness is to find your way into a competitive career that not many people can get into. But even that isn't going to make you successful without a lot of effort to get there and stay established.

It is interesting though, when I think back about path and when I was deciding whether or not to go into it, pretty much the last thing I considered was lifestyle and work hours. I suspect that's also true for most people who are successful in pathology. I am not saying these factors are not considerations, but they should be secondary.

 

[Zerosixjt]

Don't lie to the young whipper-snapper, mlw. Dude, we work like 100+ hour weeks, every week. We take q2 call. Surgeons yell at us. Our attendings yell at us. We are tortured by prostate chips. I suggest you look to another field at this young stage of your medical training.


I find it interesting that of the people who come over to this forum, the ones who probably have zero interest in path at all, are the ones who, with their very first questions ask things pertaining to "work load" and "schedule" as well as "can I be a ******* and do this", on a perpetual quest trying to find the holy grail of medicine where they can work 2 hours a week and make 200K/yr (you should go over to the derm forum).

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I hate to shatter your image students who ask questions of the forum, but I have worked in clinical labs, I am passing all of my classes, and have no problem with working hard.

Maybe next time I'll ask the IM forum, I'll sure that they can give me all the path knowledge that I'll ever need.

Thanks

 

[Arctic Char]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I hate to shatter your image students who ask questions of the forum, but I have worked in clinical labs, I am passing all of my classes, and have no problem with working hard.

Maybe next time I'll ask the IM forum, I'll sure that they can give me all the path knowledge that I'll ever need.

Thanks

i think darksideallstar's post was inspired less by your post, and more by its resemblance - albeit slight - to this thread recently started: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=498653

its the fact that they both seem to drive straight at the issue of "work load" . . . so take the hit more as an innocent bystander

 

[Zerosixjt]

i think darksideallstar's post was inspired less by your post, and more by its resemblance - albeit slight - to this thread recently started: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=498653

its the fact that they both seem to drive straight at the issue of "work load" . . . so take the hit more as an innocent bystander

Sorry, call it a pre-coffee morning rant... I have also read the above mentioned thread, and I am equally disgusted by it.

The reason that I asked was that, although I have worked in clinical labs, I never had any exposure to path residents. I was just trying to get a feel for what to expect. I am really interested in pathology, and I am just trying to set myself up for success. I am and osteopathic medical student, so I am already at a disadvantage to enter path.

No hard feelings.

 

[djmd]

Sorry, call it a pre-coffee morning rant... I have also read the above mentioned thread, and I am equally disgusted by it.

The reason that I asked was that, although I have worked in clinical labs, I never had any exposure to path residents. I was just trying to get a feel for what to expect. I am really interested in pathology, and I am just trying to set myself up for success. I am and osteopathic medical student, so I am already at a disadvantage to enter path.

No hard feelings.

Pathology really doesn't have an intern year. The first year in most pathology training programs is not radically different from later years..

There is a big adjustment pathology is very different from anything else in 3/4th years so one has a mindshift that has to happen.

And DO's in pathology are not generally considered disadvantaged... I would say never but who knows, there may still be some people with DO bias.

Are you planning on doing an actual intern year? There are a few states that require DOs to do them if they want to practice there... (I think it is five).

 

[DarksideAllstar]

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I hate to shatter your image students who ask questions of the forum, but I have worked in clinical labs, I am passing all of my classes, and have no problem with working hard.

Maybe next time I'll ask the IM forum, I'll sure that they can give me all the path knowledge that I'll ever need.

Thanks

Sorry about coming off like an @ss in my reply-- I feel like the majority of the questions that come through here pertain to lifestyle and income-- neither you can reliably predict, IMO. No hard feelings.

 

[Zerosixjt]

Disadvantage might be the wrong word, but considering there are NO osteopathic pathology residencies, it is definately not a focus for osteopathic medical education. I am not planning on doing an osteopathic internship if I can avoid it. I won't be graduating from one of the states with the requirement, and I think that path qualifies for "option 2" of the intership rules, so my first year of residency would count as my intership year.

 

[djmd]

Disadvantage might be the wrong word, but considering there are NO osteopathic pathology residencies, it is definately not a focus for osteopathic medical education. I am not planning on doing an osteopathic internship if I can avoid it. I won't be graduating from one of the states with the requirement, and I think that path qualifies for "option 2" of the intership rules, so my first year of residency would count as my internship year.

I don't know much about DO internship rules, but I know two DOs in pathology one of whom did not do a separate internship (and has to avoid the 5 states that have rules about DOs and required internships..)

I think the requirement doesn't have to do with where to graduate, but which state you are trying to get your license to practice.

 

[docbiohazard]

Disadvantage might be the wrong word, but considering there are NO osteopathic pathology residencies, it is definately not a focus for osteopathic medical education.

Don't worry, it's sadly not a huge focus of allopathic medical education anymore either. Other than limited classroom exposure to path and pathophys in years 1 & 2, any other direct experience required elective time...

BH

 

[raspberry009]

I fell in love with path 4 yrs ago.

You look at God's artwork all day by critiquing it... VanGough? or Manet? postimpressionistic?

The people are wonderful. (of course there are a few sore apples which could be plucked from the tree, but luckily they are a minority.)

The hours are what you make it. Do you work super slow? or are you super fast? Both have their pros and cons. Also you don't have patients dictating your hours. If you have a large work load for that day, you can stay late or come in early tomorrow...

The atmosphere of the department is generally different than the rest of the hospital. Sure you can be anal and cause tension if you so choose, but really... I do not think any pathologist is worked beyond sanity unless they choose to be.

I enjoy life! I've met so many residents from various schools that can keep up with their hobbies! (what a concept!!) Lifestyle does have a large part in my choice of a career and there is no reason why it shouldn't!

 

[Arctic Char]

You look at God's artwork all day by critiquing it... VanGough? or Manet? postimpressionistic?

couldn't have said it better myself!! i totally agree . . . these slides, the beautiful images on them - if someone painted such images they'd sell for thousands each, maybe millions . . . and that would only just be paint. what pathologists look at each day, everyday, is human tissue. something not so easily obtained, and from a fellow human being who needs help. that means something to me. and we pathologists (forgive the prematurity here) examine human biology, humanity in its most intimate state, its most modest beauty. We look at the components of you and me, we look at them as they behave without thinking, living without judgement, organizing with absolutely no sense of vanity or beauty. but damn, isn't it beautiful?

i think if the impressionist artists could what we see, it would challenge their talent, and belittle their wildest interpretations of nature.

but thats just my $0.02

 

[gbwillner]

couldn't have said it better myself!! i totally agree . . . these slides, the beautiful images on them - if someone painted such images they'd sell for thousands each, maybe millions . . . and that would only just be paint.

I'm only worried about feeling queasy when the attending is driving the scope.

 

[docbiohazard]

I'm only worried about feeling queasy when the attending is driving the scope.

No kidding. I've told most get used to it with time, in general I just try to look down / away when they're rapidly hunting for something, or close my eyes temporarily. I wonder if meclizine would help - but then I fear I'd be in a drug-induced fog...

BH

 

[Arctic Char]

yeah i hear this complaint a lot from students . . . i don't get it personally. its never bothered me, and its never crossed my mind until you guys brought it up here. when my attending moves around, i just realize when its time to move vs when its time to observe - which are clearly discernible - and only use my keen-vision when we halt on a particular portion of anatomy. i think i use the "moving time" to just orient myself to the specimen and understand the optic physics involved in its paradoxical movements in terms of image-to-slide-position

 

[djmd]

yeah i hear this complaint a lot from students . . . i don't get it personally. its never bothered me, and its never crossed my mind until you guys brought it up here. when my attending moves around, i just realize when its time to move vs when its time to observe - which are clearly discernible - and only use my keen-vision when we halt on a particular portion of anatomy. i think i use the "moving time" to just orient myself to the specimen and understand the optic physics involved in its paradoxical movements in terms of image-to-slide-position

I think most people who have problems with this suffer from a motion sickness when their vision says they are moving but their inner ear says no.

Like the Blairwitch and Cloverfield movie problems.

Personally I only ever get motion sickness when my inner ear say I'm moving, but my vision says no. So no problems with a scope, but I can't read in a car...

 

[docbiohazard]

I think most people who have problems with this suffer from a motion sickness when their vision says they are moving but their inner ear says no.

Like the Blairwitch and Cloverfield movie problems.

Personally I only ever get motion sickness when my inner ear say I'm moving, but my vision says no. So no problems with a scope, but I can't read in a car...

Yeah, it's strange. Very little makes me motion sick - except for that scope movement, and certain FPS video games - older, lower resolution ones like Castle Wolfenstein. Newer, higher resolution graphics don't induce this effect in me. Other than that, don't get car sick or sea sick.

So... if I'm reading you correctly, I would have the first problem.

BH

 

[djmd]

Yeah, it's strange. Very little makes me motion sick - except for that scope movement, and certain FPS video games - older, lower resolution ones like Castle Wolfenstein. Newer, higher resolution graphics don't induce this effect in me. Other than that, don't get car sick or sea sick.

So... if I'm reading you correctly, I would have the first problem.

BH

It does seem that people tend to have one or the other forms of motion sickness, but not both...
I guess people tend to be wired with either inner ear dominant or vision dominant motion sense...

 

[Arctic Char]

It does seem that people tend to have one or the other forms of motion sickness, but not both...
I guess people tend to be wired with either inner ear dominant or vision dominant motion sense...

i dominate all senses!!! mu ha, mu ha ha

unless its a fishing dock in cancun at 6 AM after a night of a dozen gin'N'tonics . . . then, as history has taught me, i dominate little but puking technique

 

[Zerosixjt]

SInce I get motion sickness with cars (boats, all things moving, when I am not in control) I should be fine with the scope when I get to that point.

 

[Click Here!]

It does seem that people tend to have one or the other forms of motion sickness, but not both...
I guess people tend to be wired with either inner ear dominant or vision dominant motion sense...

Good theory, but not my experience. I have suffered both the "reading in the car" type and the "attending zooming around" type of motion sickness.
Thankfully the latter has gotten better with time and some of the aforementioned techniques.

 

[Tiki]

I guess I'm lucky, but I have never gotten motion sickness. Not on a boat, a car or at the scope.

 

[djmd]

Good theory, but not my experience. I have suffered both the "reading in the car" type and the "attending zooming around" type of motion sickness.
Thankfully the latter has gotten better with time and some of the aforementioned techniques.

Well there goes my Nobel Prize.