INTO Saint George London MBBS4?

[kristam92]

Hello, I was just wondering if any internationals have applied, been accepted, or are currently enrolled in this program. If so, what do you think about it? What are your stats (GPA, MCAT)? I'm a US citizen with a 3.0 GPA and a 28 MCAT...

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[mizD]

I haven't applied because I had never heard about this program until now.............but I looked it up and apparently the deadline is May 31, 2014? is this true? so I can still apply?! lol...

 

[kristam92]

If you want to apply to enroll this fall, yes you can still apply. Otherwise admissions for 2015 open up in September in run until May.

 

[mizD]

nice, thank you! were you required to send in letters of recommendation, a personal statement, etc? I'm not sure how UCAS works or anything...

 

[Medstart108]

Don't go. This program has clinical rotations at Jackson Park Hospital in Chicago. One of the worst hospitals in the country and it has a 1 star rating admittedly on Yelp. Its located on the South Side of Chicago, one of the most dangerous areas of Chicago and a very very inner city neighborhood, it is dangerous to walk alone even during the day. Murders happen nearly every day, I've been to the South Side.

It only has a FM residency program, (probably one of the worst FM residency programs), so you won't be able to match at that hospital either.

Also, not the SGUL program but the SGUL-Nicosia program has way more NA students than spots for clinical rotations in North America and as a result, a lot of students aren't even getting to do their clinicals in the US, basically eliminating the chance for them to match.

 

[kristam92]

With the UCAS you can only send in one LOR so you have to make sure it's the best one. There is a personal statement also. I haven't applied yet because I'm still a Junior. I was going to apply this next application cycle for 2015 admissions.

Thank you for the info on Jackson Park Hospital. I haven't looked into that yet. Definitely good to know. Basically, my stats are far too low for any US med school (MD or DO) so I was going to give this a shot. I'm also going to apply for direct entry NP schools in my area and PA programs. I guess I'll see what happens when I get my acceptance/denial letters back. I was just hoping to hear from somebody who has first hand experience with this program. According to the representative I have been speaking with, the SGUL London program is separate from the Nicosia program. Apparantly, the lack of clinical positions won't be a problem with this program because they've learned from the Nicosia programs mistakes. Of course that information came from a representative so I can't say much about the validity of it.

Thanks for the help.

 

[kristam92]

Update: I contacted the representative and they no longer work with Jackson Park Hospital. Instead, they work with Swedish Covenant Hospital in the North side of Chicago.

 

[mizD]

yeah I was checking the website and saw they work with that hospital too. checked out the yelp reviews though and looks like the ER is crap...lol.
i'm so wary of international programs but i'm also in the same boat as you in terms of low stats -_- so i can't exactly be super picky...

 

[Medstart108]

Swedish Covenant Hospital sounds better, North Side is much safer, it has a FM program but only an osteo IM program. Its definitely an improvement on Jackson Park, but to be honest i'm not seeing any difference between SGU and SGUL apart from cost perhaps, even the name seems similar.

 

[mizD]

Swedish Covenant Hospital sounds better, North Side is much safer, it has a FM program but only an osteo IM program. Its definitely an improvement on Jackson Park, but to be honest i'm not seeing any difference between SGU and SGUL apart from cost perhaps, even the name seems similar.

where are you for school? or are you done?

 

[kristam92]

SGU Nicosia is an extension of SGUL through the INTO program. So I imagine the program is very similar. The London program is suppose to be an improvement from Nicosia though. Again, I cannot attest to the validity of that. The only thing that makes me optomistic towards it is that SGUL is a reputable school in the UK. Internationals can apply directly to the school but going through the INTO program allows you to do clinical rotations in the US and prepares you for the USMLE. Applying to SGUL outside of the INTO program prepares you to be a physician in the UK. I'm not too worried about the education at SGUL. I'm sure it's great. And Saint George hospital is a main hospital in southwest London so I'm sure I'd have a great experience there. I'm just worried about the clinical rotations in the US. Not to mention the difficulty matching for IMG....

I'm not really sure what I'm going to do at this point. My mind has been a hot mess lately. My stats are leaving me with little options for the MD/DO route...

Are you an international student, Medstart108?

 

[Medstart108]

I actually applied and accepted to the program but the 6 year MBBS/BSc version but didn't go. I interviewed and the location in Tooting put me off a bit. I think the main problem was the lack of clarity regarding the teaching hospital issue.

SGUL's strength is likely its hospital (St. George's Hospital) as it is on site, but the problem with the INTO program for 4 year MBBS is that you spend your pre-clinical years doing PBL at SGUL, which won't give you a great base knowledge and then you spend your clinical years in the US at a not so great community hospital that only has 330 beds and doesn't teach many residents.

The truth is, studying in SGUL won't help you at all, in fact its quite risky. SGUL is known for its standard UK programs as that is their competitive program. The INTO program is mostly a money maker for them. Program directors won't be fooled, your chances might be better at SGU where you will have a lot of alumni in residencies and PDs will likely know the SGU curriculum and quality of residents much better. SGU also teaches to the USMLE and uses a standard US curriculum, with SGUL you will learn the standard UK curriculum and you might get some prep courses for USMLE.

If you have alternatives in other fields try them, there is a lot of negative news showing how difficult it is to match, i really don't recommend going to this program honestly.

 

[mizD]

I actually applied and accepted to the program but the 6 year MBBS/BSc version but didn't go. I interviewed and the location in Tooting put me off a bit. I think the main problem was the lack of clarity regarding the teaching hospital issue.

SGUL's strength is likely its hospital (St. George's Hospital) as it is on site, but the problem with the INTO program for 4 year MBBS is that you spend your pre-clinical years doing PBL at SGUL, which won't give you a great base knowledge and then you spend your clinical years in the US at a not so great community hospital that only has 330 beds and doesn't teach many residents.

The truth is, studying in SGUL won't help you at all, in fact its quite risky. SGUL is known for its standard UK programs as that is their competitive program. The INTO program is mostly a money maker for them. Program directors won't be fooled, your chances might be better at SGU where you will have a lot of alumni in residencies and PDs will likely know the SGU curriculum and quality of residents much better. SGU also teaches to the USMLE and uses a standard US curriculum, with SGUL you will learn the standard UK curriculum and you might get some prep courses for USMLE.

If you have alternatives in other fields try them, there is a lot of negative news showing how difficult it is to match, i really don't recommend going to this program honestly.

thanks for your advice!

 

[CHRONOS7]

I would avoid this program simply because they don't have a confirmed clinical rotation location, so it sounds like it's still a work in progress. And they charge TOP dollar. Look to the Caribbean.

If your stats are fringe (e.g. 3.0 GPA, 28 MCAT) do yourself a favor and apply to the University of Queensland. Apply early and you'll probably get an offer. Why is this a good choice for people with low stats? It has low admissions standards. Its fully accredited by the Australian Medical Council. And they have a tight affiliation with Ochsner Health Systems in Louisiana, a top hospital organization in the states, with a slew of residency programs. In fact, there is a program for Americans only in which you can do the first 2 years in Australia and the final 2 years in Louisiana. Their match numbers are out for the first two graduating classes and something like 90% of grads have matched, a lot of them to Ochsner, but still that isn't a bad insurance policy as an IMG.

 

[mizD]

I would avoid this program simply because they don't have a confirmed clinical rotation location, so it sounds like it's still a work in progress. And they charge TOP dollar. Look to the Caribbean.

If your stats are fringe (e.g. 3.0 GPA, 28 MCAT) do yourself a favor and apply to the University of Queensland. Apply early and you'll probably get an offer. Why is this a good choice for people with low stats? It has low admissions standards. Its fully accredited by the Australian Medical Council. And they have a tight affiliation with Ochsner Health Systems in Louisiana, a top hospital organization in the states, with a slew of residency programs. In fact, there is a program for Americans only in which you can do the first 2 years in Australia and the final 2 years in Louisiana. Their match numbers are out for the first two graduating classes and something like 90% of grads have matched, a lot of them to Ochsner, but still that isn't a bad insurance policy as an IMG.

thanks!

 

[CamTheFirst]

I would avoid this program simply because they don't have a confirmed clinical rotation location, so it sounds like it's still a work in progress. And they charge TOP dollar. Look to the Caribbean.

If your stats are fringe (e.g. 3.0 GPA, 28 MCAT) do yourself a favor and apply to the University of Queensland. Apply early and you'll probably get an offer. Why is this a good choice for people with low stats? It has low admissions standards. Its fully accredited by the Australian Medical Council. And they have a tight affiliation with Ochsner Health Systems in Louisiana, a top hospital organization in the states, with a slew of residency programs. In fact, there is a program for Americans only in which you can do the first 2 years in Australia and the final 2 years in Louisiana. Their match numbers are out for the first two graduating classes and something like 90% of grads have matched, a lot of them to Ochsner, but still that isn't a bad insurance policy as an IMG.

Thanks Chronos, I do have Canadian friends in QU and Monash GEM programs in Australia and they are very happy with the education they are receiving.
Add also the slightly lower tuition and the nicer weather. Additionally QU is rebranding the medical degree to an "MD" degree.

 

[Medstart108]

I would avoid this program simply because they don't have a confirmed clinical rotation location, so it sounds like it's still a work in progress. And they charge TOP dollar. Look to the Caribbean.

If your stats are fringe (e.g. 3.0 GPA, 28 MCAT) do yourself a favor and apply to the University of Queensland. Apply early and you'll probably get an offer. Why is this a good choice for people with low stats? It has low admissions standards. Its fully accredited by the Australian Medical Council. And they have a tight affiliation with Ochsner Health Systems in Louisiana, a top hospital organization in the states, with a slew of residency programs. In fact, there is a program for Americans only in which you can do the first 2 years in Australia and the final 2 years in Louisiana. Their match numbers are out for the first two graduating classes and something like 90% of grads have matched, a lot of them to Ochsner, but still that isn't a bad insurance policy as an IMG.

Yes, this is the same thing but so much better. Proven match stats, 1st world western education, better US clinical hospital etc.

Mike if you graduate from Ireland or UK you can call yourself MD once you graduate anyways so it doesn't make a difference.

 

[mizD]

Yes, this is the same thing but so much better. Proven match stats, 1st world western education, better US clinical hospital etc.

Mike if you graduate from Ireland or UK you can call yourself MD once you graduate anyways so it doesn't make a difference.

do you know why they're even bothering with the rebranding then? also I just read that they have 120 seats just for US students....that's awesome

 

[Medstart108]

do you know why they're even bothering with the rebranding then? also I just read that they have 120 seats just for US students....that's awesome

I think it was because a lot of Australian schools decided to start switching their undergrad programs to postgrad programs and naturally students didn't want to do a post-graduate degree that is titled "bachelor" and so they decided to switch to "doctor".

I think it also has something to do with wanting to attract more American students and by calling the degree MD it will make the students more comfortable.

 

[mizD]

I think it was because a lot of Australian schools decided to start switching their undergrad programs to postgrad programs and naturally students didn't want to do a post-graduate degree that is titled "bachelor" and so they decided to switch to "doctor".

I think it also has something to do with wanting to attract more American students and by calling the degree MD it will make the students more comfortable.

hmm makes sense. I definitely was a little confused when I saw the "bachelor" title. too bad the structural changes won't be done till 2015

 

[CHRONOS7]

hmm makes sense. I definitely was a little confused when I saw the "bachelor" title. too bad the structural changes won't be done till 2015

Australian schools, and most southern hemisphere schools run on a different timetable to coordinate with their seasons being different. The next intake for all Australian medical schools is January/February 2015 (You can think of their January/February as our September/October).

The reason for the degree title change is to do with most of the medicine programs switching from the traditional undergrad 6 year model, to a graduate entry model (requiring a bachelor's degree for entry). It also helps that it will attract more international students.

Either way, MD, MBBS, MB ChB, MB BCh, whatever you want to call the degree it's all the same. All are primary medical qualifications.

 

[mizD]

Australian schools, and most southern hemisphere schools run on a different timetable to coordinate with their seasons being different. The next intake for all Australian medical schools is January/February 2015 (You can think of their January/February as our September/October).

The reason for the degree title change is to do with most of the medicine programs switching from the traditional undergrad 6 year model, to a graduate entry model (requiring a bachelor's degree for entry). It also helps that it will attract more international students.

Either way, MD, MBBS, MB ChB, MB BCh, whatever you want to call the degree it's all the same. All are primary medical qualifications.

oh! so if I apply now, i'll technically be entering in 2015 and therefore under the new program? not that it matters, as you said, but it's just interesting to know. yeah makes sense, as someone who already has a bachelor's degree it's nice to know i'd potentially be entering into a technically labeled graduate program lol

 

[CHRONOS7]

oh! so if I apply now, i'll technically be entering in 2015 and therefore under the new program? not that it matters, as you said, but it's just interesting to know. yeah makes sense, as someone who already has a bachelor's degree it's nice to know i'd potentially be entering into a technically labeled graduate program lol

Correct. If you're going to a medical school that is transitioning to the MD degree, and their first intake for that program is 2015, then you would be applying to that program.

A lot of the Australian schools have rolling admissions so the sooner you apply the better your chances of getting an offer. The application process is reasonably painless as well (nothing like AMCAS).

 

[eastvalley2014]

n/a

 

[deleted158872]

I actually applied and accepted to the program but the 6 year MBBS/BSc version but didn't go. I interviewed and the location in Tooting put me off a bit. I think the main problem was the lack of clarity regarding the teaching hospital issue.

SGUL's strength is likely its hospital (St. George's Hospital) as it is on site, but the problem with the INTO program for 4 year MBBS is that you spend your pre-clinical years doing PBL at SGUL, which won't give you a great base knowledge and then you spend your clinical years in the US at a not so great community hospital that only has 330 beds and doesn't teach many residents.

The truth is, studying in SGUL won't help you at all, in fact its quite risky. SGUL is known for its standard UK programs as that is their competitive program. The INTO program is mostly a money maker for them. Program directors won't be fooled, your chances might be better at SGU where you will have a lot of alumni in residencies and PDs will likely know the SGU curriculum and quality of residents much better. SGU also teaches to the USMLE and uses a standard US curriculum, with SGUL you will learn the standard UK curriculum and you might get some prep courses for USMLE.

If you have alternatives in other fields try them, there is a lot of negative news showing how difficult it is to match, i really don't recommend going to this program honestly.

wow, it's really this bad? i'm seriously thinking about NOT applying to SGUL then
SGUL doesn't allow you to compete for UK internship, right?

If your stats are fringe (e.g. 3.0 GPA, 28 MCAT) do yourself a favor and apply to the University of Queensland.

UQ is just as risky.
if this school doesn't allow you to compete for Australian internship, wouldn't it be a huge red flag? because returning to the US is extremely difficult,
and what if i can't get a residency in the US? what am i to do then?

 

[Medstart108]

wow, it's really this bad? i'm seriously thinking about NOT applying to SGUL then
SGUL doesn't allow you to compete for UK internship, right?


UQ is just as risky.
if this school doesn't allow you to compete for Australian internship, wouldn't it be a huge red flag? because returning to the US is extremely difficult,
and what if i can't get a residency in the US? what am i to do then?

They now have clinical rotations at low tier US MD schools and thats improved. I think its worth going now, SGUL does allow you to compete for UK internship now. Assuming you want to match to the US, but if you have other UK offers I would consider those.

 

[deleted158872]

They now have clinical rotations at low tier US MD schools and thats improved. I think its worth going now, SGUL does allow you to compete for UK internship now.

i assume this is SGUL, not UQ?

do you have to be EU citizen? i guess priority goes to EU citizens, doesn't it?

 

[loler]

They now have clinical rotations at low tier US MD schools and thats improved. I think its worth going now, SGUL does allow you to compete for UK internship now. Assuming you want to match to the US, but if you have other UK offers I would consider those.

Can you please indicate where proof of this is shown i.e. does the GMC show on their website that SGUL grads can do the UKFP and specialty training and are considered on par with other grads of UK med schools?
Also, do you know if there is any info from SGUL that shows if students have the option of doing year 3-4 in the UK instead of doing US rotations (even as a US or Canadian citizen)? Thanks!

 

[Medstart108]

Can you please indicate where proof of this is shown i.e. does the GMC show on their website that SGUL grads can do the UKFP and specialty training and are considered on par with other grads of UK med schools?
Also, do you know if there is any info from SGUL that shows if students have the option of doing year 3-4 in the UK instead of doing US rotations (even as a US or Canadian citizen)? Thanks!

No, i'm going by the brochure on the SGUL page which says grads can do foundation years.

http://www.intohigher.com/media/5333503/into-sgul-international-brochure-2015-16-v1-2.pdf

 

[Medstart108]

i assume this is SGUL, not UQ?

do you have to be EU citizen? i guess priority goes to EU citizens, doesn't it?

No it doesn't. If you mean for US rotations this programs is from North American citizens only. If you mean for Foundation Years then internationals who graduate from uk medical schools should be considered equal alongside other EU students.

 

[deleted158872]

i want to hear more reviews of SGUL... bc i'm very concerned about its quality...

 

[deleted158872]

the problem with the INTO program for 4 year MBBS is that you spend your pre-clinical years doing PBL at SGUL, which won't give you a great base knowledge and then you spend your clinical years in the US at a not so great community hospital that only has 330 beds and doesn't teach many residents.

entirely PBL? not the "blended approach" that is PBL + lectures?

 

[Medstart108]

entirely PBL? not the "blended approach" that is PBL + lectures?

I think there are lectures but its a problem based approach.

 

[doctorgator]

Whose planning to attend the MBBS4 this September 2015? What are your plans?

 

[deleted158872]

can any students from SGUL give me an overview/review of the curriculum?

also, their first class' match rate will be out by July the latest; please post if you could find it!

 

[doctorgator]

can any students from SGUL give me an overview/review of the curriculum?

also, their first class' match rate will be out by July the latest; please post if you could find it!

They might have only one student going into the USA or Canadian

At the interview the student ambassador talked highly about the curriculum. So not unbiased but he was free to talk how he wanted.

 

[deleted158872]

@doctorgator: since you went to interview, i'd like to ask: how did you find Tooting as a place to live (in terms of convenience, public transportation, housing, safety, etc.)?

 

[doctorgator]

@doctorgator: since you went to interview, i'd like to ask: how did you find Tooting as a place to live (in terms of convenience, public transportation, housing, safety, etc.)?

I liked the diversity. I stayed in downtown London while I was there. SoHo in particular. It was very easy to get to Tooting from Central London. They mentioned the tube line will start running 24 hours.

The prices for thing like coffee and food were quite a bit cheaper than central London. About on par of what I would pay in the states after currency conversion.

I can't comment on housing. But it's a suburb or closer enough. A cursory craigslist search shows one bedroom flats to be the same price as the dorms.

 

[IDAA1]

Anyone, who interviewed, heard back from Admission yet? I had a Skype interview and it has been over a month now and I still haven't heard back yet.

 

[comrade2011]

.

 

[neuralgal]

Has the match information for their first class been released yet? I'm thinking of applying to this program but my biggest concern is with being able to get a residency back home.

 

[Medstart108]

Has the match information for their first class been released yet? I'm thinking of applying to this program but my biggest concern is with being able to get a residency back home.

The first class matches next year I believe.

 

[neuralgal]

The first class matches next year I believe.

Ah, I see. Thanks!

 

[deleted158872]

Now that SGUL just acquired rotations at Thomas Jefferson hospital in Philadelphia. Is it better than Ochsner system of Queensland?

 

[mcat_taker]

Now that SGUL just acquired rotations at Thomas Jefferson hospital in Philadelphia. Is it better than Ochsner system of Queensland?

I think its pretty good. It was ranked 17th best hospital in the U.S. by U.S. News and World Report and its had a long standing relationship with Jefferson Medical College in the past so its teaching must be pretty good. Its in center city and is pretty big 900 or so beds plus a level 1 trauma center.

 

[t0ny]

Now that SGUL just acquired rotations at Thomas Jefferson hospital in Philadelphia. Is it better than Ochsner system of Queensland?

Thats Interesting, wonder how this would help out Canadian students going to SGUL

 

[deleted718115]

One huge factor to consider is that SGUL is currently only approved in 35 states. It is NOT approved in Cali and New York. And many states follow Cali's board of approval.

 

[645095]

One huge factor to consider is that SGUL is currently only approved in 35 states. It is NOT approved in Cali and New York. And many states follow Cali's board of approval.

Where can I find this data for any medical school and their programs? I have checked out FAIMER, ECFMG and other sites and it seemed to me that it was approved everywhere. I very much believe you and my search was cursory. I would very much appreciate the link or a description of how to find it. Thanks.

 

[deleted718115]

Where can I find this data for any medical school and their programs? I have checked out FAIMER, ECFMG and other sites and it seemed to me that it was approved everywhere. I very much believe you and my search was cursory. I would very much appreciate the link or a description of how to find it. Thanks.

Email the program itself. My information comes from Shannon Smith who is the program's representative.

 

[torontopharm]

Where can I find this data for any medical school and their programs? I have checked out FAIMER, ECFMG and other sites and it seemed to me that it was approved everywhere. I very much believe you and my search was cursory. I would very much appreciate the link or a description of how to find it. Thanks.

For Cali approved
http://www.mbc.ca.gov/Applicants/Medical_Schools/Schools_Recognized.aspx

For NY approved
http://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/med/medlic.htm