Is debt worth it?

[kmc1996]

Hi I am an 18 year old female as of now going to a Community College. I plan to go to a four year college after getting my associates of science degree. I'm wonder if the debt of medical school is worth it in the end. I want to either be a surgeon or an ob-gyn. I live in a low income home with my family. My boyfriend is leaving for the Navy in January so I will be moving around alot for schooling. I know I can't afford school without all the loans I'm just wondering if what I make after school will be enough to pay it back. Help!!!!

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[Medix450]

lets just say: 21.5% of physicians are in households whose income places them in the top 1% of American incomes(source Forbes)

 

[kmc1996]

Yeah I know with the money me and my family make that becoming a physician is going to be nearly impossible. I am determined though.

 

[Medix450]

thats not my point, my point is if you get in and survive through residency you'll be fine

 

[superpom_7]

Hi I am an 18 year old female as of now going to a Community College. I plan to go to a four year college after getting my associates of science degree. I'm wonder if the debt of medical school is worth it in the end. I want to either be a surgeon or an ob-gyn. I live in a low income home with my family. My boyfriend is leaving for the Navy in January so I will be moving around alot for schooling. I know I can't afford school without all the loans I'm just wondering if what I make after school will be enough to pay it back. Help!!!!

Honestly, if you really want to become a doctor, you should think it is worth it in the end. I'm sure there are lots of doctors who come from low-income homes and families. You will make enough to pay it back, it may just take time.

 

[radkat101]

If you can actually get into medical school, the money won't be a problem. Most of us are on loans. If you go into debt TRYING to get in without a backup plan and aren't successful, then you run into problems. There are plenty of doctors/med students who come from low income backgrounds.

 

[Doctor Dream]

Sometimes you gotta risk it to get the biscuit.

 

[eggman2013]

Sometimes you gotta risk it to get the biscuit.

biscuit better come from red lobster

 

[superpom_7]

biscuit better come from red lobster

The best biscuits ever!

 

[Mad Jack]

You're taking on 200-400k in debt to increase your lifetime earnings by several million dollars. Financially, it is a pretty good deal. What you really need to ask yourself is, "will being a physician be worth the 13 years I sacrificed to get there."

How much job satisfaction, money, and prestige are those 13 years worth? If you plan on having children one day, are the increased risks posed by being an older mother if you wait to have them worth it? Or, if you have them earlier, is time you'll be slaving away in an OR during residency while they're celebrating Christmas with the family worth it? Think long and hard about what you want out of life, then ask yourself if being a physician is compatible with those goals. Only then will you know if you should head down the long road to med school.

 

[Pisiform]

Even with the debt, it will be plenty. But just don't lose focus. I have seen lots of kids who took out loans and made it to medical school just to drop out. Eyes on the prize girl !

 

[Stagg737]

Money is an issue for (almost) every medical student. The average med student graduates with around 200k in debt, yet you don't see many doctors struggling financially. Plus as an economically disadvantaged student who may want to work with patients who are economically disadvantaged, you potentially fit the profile for the type of student many schools are looking for. @Mad Jack brought up the things that should be your bigger questions about entering medicine. Assuming you do 4 years of undergrad and are accepted straight into med school you still won't be working as a doctor until you're 29 at the earliest. I am 25 (almost 26) and about to start med school, which means I won't be done with residency until I'm 32-36. Are you willing to sacrifice the prime years of your life to study and work? For many people it's not worth it, but if it is really what you want to do then it is all worth it in the end. It's important to understand the financial aspects, but if you are miserable with your career what does it matter if you're rich or not?

 

[IlDestriero]

The whole "sacrificing the prime years of your life" for school and residency is ridiculous. I worked hard, kept a healthy balance, and lived quite well from 18-32. What did I give up? Getting wasted 7 nights a week?
I worked out, went out, partied, dated, took vacations, got married, everything others do. And I did quite well.
You just have to plan and schedule better. If you're studying 8 hours a day after class all the time, you're doing it wrong.

 

[FutureOncologist]

The whole "sacrificing the prime years of your life" for school and residency is ridiculous. I worked hard, kept a healthy balance, and lived quite well from 18-32. What did I give up? Getting wasted 7 nights a week?
I worked out, went out, partied, dated, took vacations, got married, everything others do. And I did quite well.
You just have to plan and schedule better. If you're studying 8 hours a day after class all the time, you're doing it wrong.

Couldn't have said it better myself. This pretty much separates the burnouts from the people that take the pressures of this field. OP, there are plenty of scholarship opportunities that you can earn. A girl I knew that went to my school (not even near top 20, in fact we are known as a party school) got a full ride to Harvard. Why? She worked her ass off during college. 5 publications, 4.0 GPA, 39 MCAT, president of her sorority and the National Pan Hellenic Council at our University, Honors student, and the list goes on. Do you have to be that perfect? No, but a lot of pre meds think they do.

Also, the pre meds that I see coming to our med school every other month ask me "How much money do you have to pay back when you're done [I do information on financial aid]?" I tell them "I will be debt-free when I graduate." The look on their faces is priceless. I am part of the HPSP program with the Navy and I get everything paid for. In return, I do residency with the Navy and owe them 4 years after I'm done with residency. I get books paid for, a monthly stipend, as well as health insurance paid for by the navy through the medical school. My summers are used up doing ODS, but in between MS2 and MS3, I got paid $6,000 to study for Step 1 (which was also paid for).

OP you have to realize that there are so many options out there. Every year, 22 of the 160 students that come in don't pay anything for medical school. In turn, they have to train here in our state wherever they need them (they have to do residency in Primary Care).

 

[radkat101]

The whole "sacrificing the prime years of your life" for school and residency is ridiculous. I worked hard, kept a healthy balance, and lived quite well from 18-32. What did I give up? Getting wasted 7 nights a week?
I worked out, went out, partied, dated, took vacations, got married, everything others do. And I did quite well.
You just have to plan and schedule better. If you're studying 8 hours a day after class all the time, you're doing it wrong.

Agreed. Not to mention that most other people in their "prime years" are (or should) already be out working full time jobs.

 

[Stagg737]

Well balanced individuals will have a decent social life in med school, but there are more things than just social life which are sacrificed during the prime years of your life. The stress of not having an income and potentially having insurmountable debt if you fail is something most 20 somethings don't have to deal with. Or the fact that physicians don't usually have a solid income until they are in their 30s. Unless a person comes from a wealthy family or doesn't care about debt then their standard of living while in med school is likely much lower than that person's professional friends. I know most of my friends who took their career path seriously in college aren't living on a tight budget in crappy apartments right now. Many of them even have kids, something that I wouldn't even dream about planning as a med student. On top of that, after med school comes residency where you get paid relatively little to work outrageous hours. For most physicians the sacrifice is worth it, and some won't see it as a sacrifice at all. However, if you ask the average Joe if they would want to go into a career that required them to take on massive amounts of debt and work ridiculous hours until they were in their late 20s to mid 30s with no guarantee of actually succeeding, I'd guess that most people would think you were crazy.

Also, the pre meds that I see coming to our med school every other month ask me "How much money do you have to pay back when you're done [I do information on financial aid]?" I tell them "I will be debt-free when I graduate." The look on their faces is priceless. I am part of the HPSP program with the Navy and I get everything paid for. In return, I do residency with the Navy and owe them 4 years after I'm done with residency. I get books paid for, a monthly stipend, as well as health insurance paid for by the navy through the medical school. My summers are used up doing ODS, but in between MS2 and MS3, I got paid $6,000 to study for Step 1 (which was also paid for).

You get everything paid for in return for being navy property for the duration of your residency and repayment period. On top of that you'll only owe 4 years if your residency is 4 years or less. If you manage to get into a specialty or don't match you can end up owing a lot more than 4 years to them. Plus, I was told that some years certain specialties aren't even offered, so if you want to go into field X and it's not available that year then it sucks for you. I was seriously considering going HPSP until I talked to military residents and physicians and heard some of the horror stories that either them or their friends went through. There are plenty of examples on the HPSP threads on this site alone. To me it sounded like a great deal, but from everyone I've talked to you have to be willing to put up with ridiculous amounts of BS after med school which is something I am not willing to do. Hopefully your path is easier than the paths of those I've talked to, but when you sell years of your life to the gov you never know what you'll get...

 

[Doctor Dream]

The whole "sacrificing the prime years of your life" for school and residency is ridiculous. I worked hard, kept a healthy balance, and lived quite well from 18-32. What did I give up? Getting wasted 7 nights a week?
I worked out, went out, partied, dated, took vacations, got married, everything others do. And I did quite well.
You just have to plan and schedule better. If you're studying 8 hours a day after class all the time, you're doing it wrong.

I'm glad someone chimed in about this. I'm sure residency varies from person to person, but I find it hard to believe residency is like a prison and your late 20's early 30's are basically taken away from you.

I'm only in undergrad, but I can relate that time management experience to UG. Some people belly-ache there are too many hoops pre-meds jump through and they have no time to enjoy college and whatever. If you can manage your time, it isn't all that bad.

 

[Dr. Jan Itor]

Navy wife, here, and I have to say you've got a really uphill road before you even get to med school if you plan on following your boyfriend around while you're doing your undergrad.

What's his rating? After boot camp he'll have A school and possibly C school or other specialty training. He might be moving as frequently as every two months before he gets to a "permanent" command which could still be less than two years. Anecdote here, but I know numerous wives who just keep racking up student loans hopping from CC to CC without ever finishing a degree. I'm not trying to dissuade you, but this is something you should be thinking about while planning.

As for your actual question, if/when you and your boyfriend get married, you'll want to check into MyCAA program. There's also some scholarship programs out there for military spouses.

 

[FutureOncologist]

You get everything paid for in return for being navy property for the duration of your residency and repayment period. On top of that you'll only owe 4 years if your residency is 4 years or less. If you manage to get into a specialty or don't match you can end up owing a lot more than 4 years to them. Plus, I was told that some years certain specialties aren't even offered, so if you want to go into field X and it's not available that year then it sucks for you. I was seriously considering going HPSP until I talked to military residents and physicians and heard some of the horror stories that either them or their friends went through. There are plenty of examples on the HPSP threads on this site alone. To me it sounded like a great deal, but from everyone I've talked to you have to be willing to put up with ridiculous amounts of BS after med school which is something I am not willing to do. Hopefully your path is easier than the paths of those I've talked to, but when you sell years of your life to the gov you never know what you'll get...

Military life isn't for everyone. I only presented it as an option, often because 9/10 premeds don't ever hear about the HPSP scholarship. Yes, it is true. Not every residency is available and you can be deferred to another specialty that they need you in. However, this is only partly true.

Lets say I wanna be a neurosurgeon and the navy tells me "We only had two spots open for 20 applicants. Sorry, you didn't make the cut." I could either 1.) let them choose a specialty for me and go on for there OR 2.) do a flight surgeon rotation for 4 years, be payed well for it, and apply for neurosurgery again. If I choose the latter, I have a much better chance at getting that residency due to the service that I committed to the Navy and thus will be considered (much) higher than someone just graduating from medical school.

Does everyone in the Navy/AF/Army love their commitment? No. Some get out as soon as they finish their training. However, because Navy/Marine family members make up more than 3/4 of my family, it was almost expected of me to go into the branch. Was I forced? No, but I always had a curiosity of military and medicine and I found it.

 

[DermViser]

Yeah I know with the money me and my family make that becoming a physician is going to be nearly impossible. I am determined though.

Determination is always good. There are many alternative routes that lead to the same end.

 

[FutureOncologist]

Navy wife, here, and I have to say you've got a really uphill road before you even get to med school if you plan on following your boyfriend around while you're doing your undergrad.

What's his rating? After boot camp he'll have A school and possibly C school or other specialty training. He might be moving as frequently as every two months before he gets to a "permanent" command which could still be less than two years. Anecdote here, but I know numerous wives who just keep racking up student loans hopping from CC to CC without ever finishing a degree. I'm not trying to dissuade you, but this is something you should be thinking about while planning.

As for your actual question, if/when you and your boyfriend get married, you'll want to check into MyCAA program. There's also some scholarship programs out there for military spouses.

May I ask if your husband is a physician with the navy?

 

[Stagg737]

Lets say I wanna be a neurosurgeon and the navy tells me "We only had two spots open for 20 applicants. Sorry, you didn't make the cut." I could either 1.) let them choose a specialty for me and go on for there OR 2.) do a flight surgeon rotation for 4 years, be payed well for it, and apply for neurosurgery again. If I choose the latter, I have a much better chance at getting that residency due to the service that I committed to the Navy and thus will be considered (much) higher than someone just graduating from medical school.

Assume you take this route. Then you would have paid off the years you owe them from med school before you complete your residency. Then if you start a military residency would you then owe them a year for each year of residency like you would if you still owed them time, or would it become completely voluntary at that point? Just curious as that was an aspect I never asked about when I was considering HPSP.

Also, congrats on getting the scholarship! I was mostly looking at it for financial reasons, but it sounds like you are much more suited to it than I would have been.

 

[docdoc17]

From someone who went through HPSP I can say that not having debt is nice, but if I had it to do over again I would probably have taken out loans. I did my service through the Army and I earned a lot of valuable experience. Sadly I was put in a GMO position staight out of internship and in the end decided that I did not want to continue my military service, so I am out now. My situation is not typcial, but if you do decide to go the HPSP route just understand that you are limiting your residency options from day 1 of medical school. Sure you still can apply to any program you want, but the military has a strange way of "pushing" applicants into the fields they really need filled. Don't count on doing a flight surgeon tour or GMO tour being something that makes you application much stronger than other candidates. I thought the same thing, but in the end it was the same things that mattered to program directors (board scores and GPA). In fact, the Army seems to put more stock in board scores and GPA than many of the civilian residencies I have encountered. So just FYI, don't go in with rose-colored glasses.

 

[Dr Curitas]

I sincerely hope it is worth it. I am married with one child and considering ourselves low income although my husband just finished civil engineering degree. I also went to community college before transferring, which significantly reduced my undergrad loan need. Great insights and advice by above posters so thanks for starting this thread.

 

[Dr. Jan Itor]

May I ask if your husband is a physician with the navy?

Nope, he's a nuke.

 

[FutureOncologist]

Assume you take this route. Then you would have paid off the years you owe them from med school before you complete your residency. Then if you start a military residency would you then owe them a year for each year of residency like you would if you still owed them time, or would it become completely voluntary at that point? Just curious as that was an aspect I never asked about when I was considering HPSP.

Also, congrats on getting the scholarship! I was mostly looking at it for financial reasons, but it sounds like you are much more suited to it than I would have been.

A lot of people I talked to this past summer at ODS did it for financial reasons (still paying off undergrad loans) while some love the Navy and want to practice medicine. I did it in a little of both. Although I have no loans to pay off undergrad, med school would set me back a lot if I went the loan route. I also love the military. It has always fascinated me and I don't regret doing it. At the risk of sounding like a recruiter (I'm not), I'll stop here.

Short answer: Yes, flight surgery would pay off my 4 years of medical school. If I loved flight surgery, I could stay if I so choose. If I wanted to leave for a civilian position, I could. Or I could reapply for a neurosurgery position. Yes, I could be declined for said position but that's how it works in the civilian sense. A lot of people go for Neurosurgery but go unmatched. That's why it's reasonable to apply for more than one residency and residency position. Some MS-4s that I know who want to go into IM and primary care apply for Internal Medicine, Pediatrics, and General Medicine. Both sides play the same game.

 

[Dbox96]

From someone who went through HPSP I can say that not having debt is nice, but if I had it to do over again I would probably have taken out loans. I did my service through the Army and I earned a lot of valuable experience. Sadly I was put in a GMO position staight out of internship and in the end decided that I did not want to continue my military service, so I am out now. My situation is not typcial, but if you do decide to go the HPSP route just understand that you are limiting your residency options from day 1 of medical school. Sure you still can apply to any program you want, but the military has a strange way of "pushing" applicants into the fields they really need filled. Don't count on doing a flight surgeon tour or GMO tour being something that makes you application much stronger than other candidates. I thought the same thing, but in the end it was the same things that mattered to program directors (board scores and GPA). In fact, the Army seems to put more stock in board scores and GPA than many of the civilian residencies I have encountered. So just FYI, don't go in with rose-colored glasses.

I'm a High School senior and I just found out about the scholarship. First off, I don't know what a GMO tour or position is. For the purpose of being in debt, it doesn't bother me to take out loans if I know my career will pay it off. But if I have the chance to take part in something that can pay it off, why not right ? Seeing how you'd rather have taken out loans on a second chance, can you tell me how a "GMO" will affect me if I do go into the Army ?

I'm trying to become an Anesthesiologist if that matters


Also, once I graduate, my plans were to go to a CC and apply for An Anesthesia Tech program and make money while pursuing my Bachelor's to at least take some weight off my debt. I don't know what route I should take especially after seeing your perspective

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

I'm a High School senior and I just found out about the scholarship. First off, I don't know what a GMO tour or position is. For the purpose of being in debt, it doesn't bother me to take out loans if I know my career will pay it off. But if I have the chance to take part in something that can pay it off, why not right ? Seeing how you'd rather have taken out loans on a second chance, can you tell me how a "GMO" will affect me if I do go into the Army ?

I'm trying to become an Anesthesiologist if that matters


Also, once I graduate, my plans were to go to a CC and apply for An Anesthesia Tech program and make money while pursuing my Bachelor's to at least take some weight off my debt. I don't know what route I should take especially after seeing your perspective

If you have any interest in applying for the military scholarship, you defintiely need to know and understand what a GMO tour is. Check out the military medicine forum.

 

[Doctortomato]

It is worth the debt, the "prime years", the rigorous training.

In the end it's about the satisfaction of helping someone live.

 

[docdoc17]

I'm a High School senior and I just found out about the scholarship. First off, I don't know what a GMO tour or position is. For the purpose of being in debt, it doesn't bother me to take out loans if I know my career will pay it off. But if I have the chance to take part in something that can pay it off, why not right ? Seeing how you'd rather have taken out loans on a second chance, can you tell me how a "GMO" will affect me if I do go into the Army ?

I'm trying to become an Anesthesiologist if that matters


Also, once I graduate, my plans were to go to a CC and apply for An Anesthesia Tech program and make money while pursuing my Bachelor's to at least take some weight off my debt. I don't know what route I should take especially after seeing your perspective

Okay, so to answer your first question. GMO stands for general medical officer. In the Army, this pretty much always is just a general practice/primary care position. The majority of the physician positions in the Army fall under the medical command (MEDCOM). The GMO positions usually fall under FORSCOM (think infantry, artillery, etc). Please also understand that the majority of Army physicians do not get placed in a GMO slot. If you are dead set on anesthesia and you get into anesthesia then you will not have to worry about GMO at all.

Not sure if the whole anesthesia tech would be a good idea or not, that is an interesting take. If you are just now a high school senior, you have some time to think about all of this. It is good that you are already planning ahead. Focus on enjoying graduation and make sure to get some in hospital and/or in clinic experience while in college. Taking out loans is stressful, but so is signing years of your life away to the Army. They both have pros and cons.

 

[sonofva]

So when you ask about debt, the best advice I could give someone at 15 is to get a job part time and put 200 a month of salary into some kind of retirement account. Maybe a Roth IRA. Then once you get too busy after high school with med school pre reqs, you can stop contributing if need be. But by that time you could have accumulated several thousand dollars into the account. Then just leave it until your 65. If you don't believe me, just look up compounding interest over 50 years on 2500$


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[EMDO2018]

Hi I am an 18 year old female as of now going to a Community College. I plan to go to a four year college after getting my associates of science degree. I'm wonder if the debt of medical school is worth it in the end. I want to either be a surgeon or an ob-gyn. I live in a low income home with my family. My boyfriend is leaving for the Navy in January so I will be moving around alot for schooling. I know I can't afford school without all the loans I'm just wondering if what I make after school will be enough to pay it back. Help!!!!

Yeah, if you make it.

 

[sonofva]

Yeah, if you make it.

Rude brah.


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