PhD/PsyD Is the journey worth it?

[mlm55]

Given the internship imbalance, unstable job market...the only way I can see the getting a doctoral degree in clinical psychology as being worth it is if the journey through graduate school, internship, and fellowship are at least somewhat enjoyable. Did you enjoy your training enough to make it worth all the hassle? Do you feel the autonomy and flexibility that you now have was worth the time committment? AND for those who are now working, does this career continue to be exciting and intellectually stimulating or does it become repetitive over time (like most jobs do)?

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[AcronymAllergy]

If you search the forums, I believe similar threads (e.g., "would you do it again?") should pop up, which may help to offer you additional insights. My take is that yes, I very much enjoyed grad school and internship, and fellowship has been great.

The way I see it--could I have had an equivalent or possibly shorter path with a potentially greater economic had I chosen one of multiple other career paths? Sure. Would I enjoy them as much as I enjoy what I do now? Probably not. Wouldn't have been the end of the world, but I find what I currently do to be fulfilling in multiple ways. Considering I've been doing pretty much the same thing since year 1 of grad school, I don't know that it'll get boring anytime soon, but if it does, I'm sure I'll figure out ways to branch out and keep things interesting. So all in all, would I do it again? Yes.

Besides, if I ultimately do opt to completely switch career paths at some point, I'd rather have gotten the one involving more arduous training and more numerous hurdles out of the way earlier.

 

[erg923]

I like my job and I earn well with a nice side gig and VA job. But, no, I probably would have done something different if I could go back. Probably history professor or something.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Yes. Loved almost every minute of it. Even all of the hurdles and obstacles to overcome were worth it and have made me the clinician I am today. i had excellent training at an excellent program and my patients and the people I work with and consult with reap the benefits. I found that the further along i went in the educational process, the more I enjoyed it. BA degree, was like advanced high school, kind of boring for much of it. MA degree, much more geared towards actual practice with some great profs. Doctoral program , almost exclusively great professors and we started clinical practica right away. It was scary, but exciting and really pushes you to learn. It is a much different perspective when you are taking a class while you are doing it in the "real world". Meanwhile, working on research and the dreaded dissertation which was actually pretty enjoyable for me. The oral defense was scary but is also one of those defining moments for me.

My advice is that if you love psychology, then it is a joy and a gift to be able to pursue it. I think that is the case with most things in life though.

 

[WisNeuro]

I like my job and I earn well with a nice side gig and VA job. But, no, I probably would have done something different if I could go back. Probably history professor or something.

History prof huh? That'd be quite the pay cut!

As for me, I love what I do, so in that sense I'd do it again no question. Although there were a few other options that I could have easily gone through with as well.

 

[erg923]

History prof huh? That'd be quite the pay cut!

As for me, I love what I do, so in that sense I'd do it again no question. Although there were a few other options that I could have easily gone through with as well.

paycut likley, but could have started earning ealier, would not have had to move 3 times, actually enjoyed grad school instead of looking for light at end of the tunnel. Of course would have written by popular book by now that would be killin it. Well, maybe..

More likley looked for job in a local historical society here, rather than academics.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

paycut likley, but could have started earning ealier, would have had to move 3 times, actually enjoyed grad school instead of looking for light at end of the tunnel. Of course would have written by popular book by now that would be killin it. Well, maybe..

More likley looked for job in a local historical society here, rather than academics.

"The History of the World, According to Erg"

I can see it now...

 

[futureapppsy2]

paycut likley, but could have started earning ealier, would not have had to move 3 times, actually enjoyed grad school instead of looking for light at end of the tunnel. Of course would have written by popular book by now that would be killin it. Well, maybe..

More likley looked for job in a local historical society here, rather than academics.

From what I've seen, the history job market (including public history jobs) is FAR worse than the psych job market. As wary as I am about the academic job market in psych/counseling, I definitely don't envy those in history or the humanities at all.

 

[MCParent]

actually enjoyed grad school instead of looking for light at end of the tunnel.

Aw. Do you have a sense of what contributed to this? I LOVED grad school, and I'd want to foster that climate for my students.

 

[WisNeuro]

Agreed with MCP, my grad school days were awesome. Great classmates and awesome relationships with faculty/supervisors. My only real incentive to leave was wanting to make more than 16k of a base salary per year.

 

[erg923]

Aw. Do you have a sense of what contributed to this? I LOVED grad school, and I'd want to foster that climate for my students.

Just my own personal impatience and probably some degree of burnout, thus creating uncertainly about exctly what I wanted to do when I grow-up. I was married and really just wanted a job and to start my family. Friends all had homes and kids and vacations and I was 2000 miles away feeling like I was missing out.

 

[CogNeuroGuy]

Given the internship imbalance, unstable job market...the only way I can see the getting a doctoral degree in clinical psychology as being worth it is if the journey through graduate school, internship, and fellowship are at least somewhat enjoyable. Did you enjoy your training enough to make it worth all the hassle? Do you feel the autonomy and flexibility that you now have was worth the time committment? AND for those who are now working, does this career continue to be exciting and intellectually stimulating or does it become repetitive over time (like most jobs do)?

I can't speak in terms of being a current clinical psychology Ph.D. student since I am a cognitive neuroscience master's student. However, since my end goal is to become a neuropsychologist, with the experience and work I have put into my pathway thus far I would say it has been worth it. I try to look at other variables rather than ones that are out of my control (i.e. internship imbalance, etc.). I switched careers for a reason and I try to keep that as my "future self" and with that the motivation to look past road blocks that have come up as a graduate student. I look forward to doctoral-level training in clinical psychology, I absolutely stand behind the practice of psychology versus social work, psychiatry or any other mental health field. I remember a professor I had in my undergrad that emphasized the "make sure this is really what you want to do" aspect of this path because it is a daunting, tedious and hectic one. In terms of what my day is like, I spend my days either in my office/lab/home researching and the rest of it doing clinical work, seeing patients with a neurologist I work with and also performing neuropsychological assessments. I think the assessment and the collaboration I have with the neurologist I work with is my favorite thing to do in a given week. I get to see various types of patients with varying disorders that really put into perspective what I spend time researching.

I would say that if you are still unsure as to if this path is viable or worth it, imagine other careers you might be a good fit for or possibly willing to work at to achieve a level of competency that you may not have and see if it is worth it to pursue those alternative paths. For me, I have focused on a number of variables that allow me to gain perspective (note, these are obviously subjective and not standard to others): I look at where I have come from in terms of time I have spent in post-secondary education, I look at the type of person I am in terms of persevering to achieve big goals (as was a characteristic of my being a professional classical musician for a while), I look at how much money I have invested into this (my undergrad and master's), I also look into the type of work I am wanting to do vs. what I don't want to do. I have worked in corporate settings for Fortune 500 companies, piano firms and retail in addition to my musical career. I am not a fan of most for-profit employment markets, so this helps me limit what I can see myself doing in a given week when I am dedicating almost 3/4 of my time in a day or week for someone else. Lastly, I evaluate other/more questionable variables some would say; such as the overall attainment of the highest level of education I can get. I think the last couple of variables definitely stem from my sociology training, but it is very important to me nonetheless. Oh, and in terms of work environment, I love working with disadvantaged populations (elderly, veterans, LGBT, ethnic/racial minorities). Ideally, one day I will work for a clinic or hospital as a neuropsychologist and work within a private practice (these are long term goals).

Hope this provides you some insight/subjective perspectives in your decision-making process.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

I'm always floored when I hear of people enjoying grad school. It was absolutely the darkest time of my life and I was completely miserable. It was pretty much the same everyone in my program (fortunately, the other students were great people and I developed lifelong friendships). Granted, I think my program was a pretty unhealthy climate and most programs would not be quite as bad. Our faculty were abusive toward students, they hated each other, etc. (Although many of my colleagues in my practice who went to different schools do NOT look back fondly on grad school.)

I'm mostly happy with my career now, but if I could do it all over I would likely choose something different in healthcare. One reason would be to save myself the experience of grad school, but other reasons as well.

 

[CogNeuroGuy]

It is a dark time, but challenging. I love a good challenge.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I'm always floored when I hear of people enjoying grad school. It was absolutely the darkest time of my life and I was completely miserable. It was pretty much the same everyone in my program (fortunately, the other students were great people and I developed lifelong friendships). Granted, I think my program was a pretty unhealthy climate and most programs would not be quite as bad. Our faculty were abusive toward students, they hated each other, etc. (Although many of my colleagues in my practice who went to different schools do NOT look back fondly on grad school.)

I'm mostly happy with my career now, but if I could do it all over I would likely choose something different in healthcare. One reason would be to save myself the experience of grad school, but other reasons as well.

Dr. E's post goes to show just how marked an impact the faculty-student climate can have on individuals' grad school experiences. There were certainly people in my program who didn't get along with their advisers, but by and large, the vast majority of folks seemed to have enjoyed their time there.

Also (and this doesn't apply to anyone in this thread), I think it's important to have realistic expectations of what grad school entails (and how the field looks) prior to entering training. What might work in med students' favors in this regard is that they seemingly universally expect med school to suck, or to at least be a very tough slog. Folks in general are often also at least somewhat in tune with the frustrations that physicians can face on a day-to-day basis re: insurance, administrative issues, etc. Conversely, there's a whole lot more mystery floating around psychology, so perhaps it's easier to be completely and unexpectedly floored by how things actually are. Also, being paid less and having less job security than some other healthcare professions probably doesn't help the stress level much.

 

[Rivi]

Rivi's grad school experience:

Year 1: Overwhelming and stressful
Year 2: Tolerable
Year 3: Decent
Year 4: Enjoyable
Internship: Awesome experience (so far)

I am finishing up my internship, and so far I am mostly glad that I did this. I had a stipend/tuition assistance, was geographically flexible, and didn't have a family to support throughout this process, which contributed to my satisfaction. If I had to take out large sums of student loans, or support a family or be separated from my family, it would have made a big difference.

Even if this field is a great fit for you, there will be many points of self-doubt along the way, and many difficulties that you will have to contend with. However, I met some great people long the way, and learned so many interesting skills that I don't think I would have picked up anywhere else. I still have a lot to learn, but I am very grateful for my training.

 

[Sanman]

Having several friends with graduate degrees in history, no chance I would attempt their job market. Though, I would love that type of job. Most likely, I would go into SLP as they do a lot the cognitive rehab in the facilities I work in and the education would have been easier with a similar income.

 

[G Costanza]

Loved my masters program. Love my doc program. But if you're going to get 11 years of post high school education, do something that pays more than 50K. I don't have any regrets but it's really disappointing that our field is full of folks without the mentality to 1) expect to be paid proportional to their education 2) donate/advocate for more influence at the legislative level.

We complain that insurance companies are lowering our reimbursement rate when we should be yelling from the rooftops that they haven't raised the rate in 25 years. Who works for over two decades without a raise? People who confuse empathy with good business.

 

[cara susanna]

I pretty much suggest to people not to pursue this career path until the internship crisis is solved. It just isn't worth it, IMO.

 

[futureapppsy2]

I pretty much suggest to people not to pursue this career path until the internship crisis is solved. It just isn't worth it, IMO.

Yeah, the crisis really adds a whole lot of stress, uncertainty, risk, and financial, time, and opportunity cost to training that really doesn't need to be there.

 

[CheetahGirl]

Yeah, agreed cara susanna, or I say put in the time, energy & forethought about being the best of the best (or pursue something else). If nothing will stop you, expect to be a bullet that does not lose momentum and power on through. Those I have seen do this are content & quite happy as licensed psychologists on the otherside.

I, on the other hand, am quite content with my choices, struggles, accomplishments. Loved my masters, loved my doctoral program and experiences/relationships built. If I could do it all over again, I would...but I think my spouse would've wanted me to have my doctorate BEFORE we had kids b/c it's been a huge strain on him (emotionally & financially). I recognize that and cannot wait until he sits back, sells his business to highest bidder, and purses his intrinsic dream of being a history teacher.

I pretty much suggest to people not to pursue this career path until the internship crisis is solved. It just isn't worth it, IMO.

 

[cara susanna]

It's just mostly like, you can put in years of effort and training, and still not end up with a degree in the end. That's just not something I'd advise people to risk at this point.

Then again, I knew about the imbalance and I applied to grad school anyway, so.

 

[WisNeuro]

I'd still recommend it to people who have a passion for it and go to a reputable program. The internship "crisis" varies considerably by program.

 

[psych84]

I think it's a personality thing. I'm looking to start a Masters program next year, so I'm not in graduate school, but I can see myself not being totally fulfilled.
But I've always been like that.

I never really expected to even attend University, as nobody in my family (immediate or otherwise) has done that. I remember being so excited at being admitted to University, but of course that feeling passed. Then I remember being so excited to get my first degree, then that passed. As I am about to finish my second degree, and even now, I am not totally happy. I just think of the negative. The fact that I had to do a second degree to increase grades. The money I spent to do that. The fact that I'm not a 3.8gpa student and higher, despite it. The fact that even with two Bachelor degrees, if I don't do further education, I may have issues getting a job. The fact that I didn't do an honours degree, which means I have no research experience. I'm dissapointed at some of my course selection, which meant I had to do extra courses. I'm also not as happy as I'm an older student.

So I'm really excited at this point about the prospect of getting into a reputable Masters Psychology program, but I see issues there as well. It is a terminal degree/no-thesis, so while I know I can do the job I want to do, I already know I'll be dissapointed that it essentially ruins any hope of doing Phd work.

Don't get me wrong, I have many moments of pride for all the hard work I've been doing, and yes even what I've accomplished (especially compared to surroundings), but I think some of us are just never really happy. Some of us really want something, and then when we get it, we want something more or something different.