Is there a reason not to apply for the HPSP?

[youraverageasia]

So the military scholarship seems like a great gig. What are some reasons some students dont pursue it?

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[cacajuate]

Because you have to do military service after.

 

[LFA20]

So the military scholarship seems like a great gig. What are some reasons some students dont pursue it?

being away from loved ones for a LONG time.. Not being able to enjoy civilian life. Personally, if you are single and willing to experience something different I would join. You get to travel to different countries while improving your dentistry skills. All of these without having to worry about debt and finding a job after graduation.. Salary is lower than a civilian dentist but still pretty competitive (90-100k)

 

[Daneosaurus]

Because not everyone is cut out for the military.

 

[deleted659902]

So the military scholarship seems like a great gig. What are some reasons some students dont pursue it?

soldier first, dentist second.

also, 70k salary and less exposure to interesting/complex cases.

 

[youraverageasia]

being away from loved ones for a LONG time.. Not being able to enjoy civilian life. Personally, if you are single and willing to experience something different I would join. You get to travel to different countries while improving your dentistry skills. All of these without having to worry about debt and finding a job after graduation.. Salary is lower than a civilian dentist but still pretty competitive (90-100k)

Do you still have to do all the things a soldier normally does on a day to day basis? Such as all the training?

 

[jwan14]

I've seriously considered this route due to the huge debt any dental school puts you in but ultimately I've decided not to do it. I think it depends on your long term goals/plans.

I want to own my own practice and establish myself as early as possible. Dental school and the military don't teach you how to be a successful owner like associating for a good dentist will.

Also, many general dentists like to do the more expensive procedures such as implants, wisdom teeth, and root canals. From what I've heard from several accounts, general dentists are more or less forced to outsource those procedures to the specialist while in the military rather than taking a crack at them yourself. If you owe the military 4 years it could be 4 years of checks, fillings, amalgams, and extractions. Anything you learned in school about root canals, wisdom teeth, implants, etc won't be practiced for four years. That puts you behind the 8 ball on making money in the long term. Plus I've seen several spreadsheets where civilian dentists end up making more after 10 years than military dentists even with having to pay off 300k in student loans.

Of course, I've not personally experienced either route yet as I'm just about to be a DS1. According to my research and what I want in the long run I've decided against HPSP. But it's good for people who can't handle the stress of having that much debt.

That's my $0.02

 

[DentalDoge]

Do you still have to do all the things a soldier normally does on a day to day basis? Such as all the training?

For HPSP, you will be an officer. As such, your requirements are pretty much the same as any other officers. So yes, you would have go through officer school, stay fit ,etc, etc

 

[Incis0r]

.

 

[Frychicken]

There's always a catch! You're not getting free money from the government without giving something back in return.

 

[midman19]

I always enjoy hearing people's rationalizations for why not to do the military cause they usually need to be taken with a grain of salt. My father is a dentist and I grew up knowing exactly what kind of stress school loans and the cost of a practice can put on someone. He as well as all of his colleagues have told me for years that if there is a way to graduate school debt free, you would be foolish not to take it. This includes the military. I have talked to a lot of pre dental students about the military and what their thoughts are on it. Almost without fail, the reasons not to do it are the same. "Private practice dentists make more, $250K in debt isn't that much, 4 yrs of military service isn't worth it, I'll be making so much in private practice that I won't be worrying about my loans." These are all illusions. Guess who the ones are who continually say these things? The people that did not grow up with a dentist in the family. Almost every pre-dental student I talk to, whose family member is a dentist, says they are definitely going to do the military, because of the advice they have gotten from their family member. @Incis0r laid everything out very well. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the magnitude of the debt that you will be facing, compared to the pay you will be getting as a dentist. You simply have to be realistic and realize that you aren't going to be that one dentist in a thousand who is making $500,000/year in take home pay. Especially in your first four years! You could graduate with 250k in debt and go work as an associate to someone making approximately 100K/year for at least the first four years (hopefully you are buying a practice and not starting your own, cause that would be even more financially straining). From that 100k, you will have a couple thousand in school loans, and a couple thousand going towards the purchase of the practice you are working at (if you are purchasing it). If you are lucky, you will take home $60,000 after taxes. OR you could be working for the military for those 4 years, actually getting more exposure to interesting cases, getting $90,000/year and have no debt. After four years, you go be an associate for someone, you have great experience and you start out making $120k as the associate. You have 0 debt, money in the bank, and you are able to purchase the practice at a few thousand per month and still have plenty of money to live on. I agree that not everyone is cut out for the military. That is fine if you aren't. However, don't let your reason be because you are blinded by the idea that you can get way richer as a private practice dentist. When you look at the numbers, you can actually be way better off in the end if you go the military route. Ask any dentist who actually had to pay for their own school loans and not whose parents payed for it, and they will confirm this. It took my dad 16 years to pay off his school loans. 16 yrs of having a noose around his neck. In dental school, he and my mom lived like nuns. They lived in mortuaries to get free rent, and he had to wake up in the middle of the night to go pick up bodies. They also managed apartments where all of my dads free time went to painting and cleaning and showing apartments. My mom also had to work countless jobs just so that they could make ends meet and have food to eat every day. On top of this, when they graduated it still took many years of sacrifice to pay off their school loans, on top of practice loans, house payment, car payments, and providing for their kids. Guess what, I won't have to do any of that. I will live comfortably through dental school, graduate debt free, have great exposure in my first four years, and not have a noose around my neck for the next 16 years. Of course there is a catch with the military @Frychicken . They are giving you a $500,000 value scholarship and the catch is that you owe them some service in return. Nothing is free in life. People often don't do the military cause, heaven forbid, the military actually requires you to do something in return for the monetary gift they have given to you. Our generation is a little too "gimme gimme gimme" We want everything given to us without giving in return. The bottom line is that the military is NOT for everyone and you need to decide for yourself. Don't let it be because of the money though, cause it makes way more financial sense to go military than not. Don't let it be cause you don't want to have to payback four years. That is a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of your life. Think about the military from the perspective of your 50 yr old self. Was the military something that gave you valuable life experiences, did it benefit you financially, was it an accomplishment that you can be proud about? If so then you should do it. Always ask yourself, What is ten years to a pig? In ten years you will be in your mid 30's no matter what. In the meantime what is a few years of military service going to hurt? How can it help you? Is the financial benefit worth it? This is a classic case of tortoise and the hare. The tortoise goes the military route and the hare says he doesn't need the military cause he can do it on his own and in the end we all know who wins the financial race - the tortoise. This is my opinion but trust me I have thought long and hard about this for many years and talked to many dentists and many accountants who work with dentists. This is the best route to take from a financial perspective. Best of luck in your decision and let me know if you have any questions about the Air Force HPSP!

 

[gatsby121]

Also, many general dentists like to do the more expensive procedures such as implants, wisdom teeth, and root canals. From what I've heard from several accounts, general dentists are more or less forced to outsource those procedures to the specialist while in the military rather than taking a crack at them yourself. If you owe the military 4 years it could be 4 years of checks, fillings, amalgams, and extractions. Anything you learned in school about root canals, wisdom teeth, implants, etc won't be practiced for four years. That puts you behind the 8 ball on making money in the long term. Plus I've seen several spreadsheets where civilian dentists end up making more after 10 years than military dentists even with having to pay off 300k in student loans.

If you start your 4 year payback without doing the AEGD (or another specialty) then it seems like this is what happens. however (from what ive researched on the military forums) if you do a 1 year AEGD you are viewed as more competent, useful, and as an asset to the military, which will allow you to work on a variety of cases throughout the next 4 years. the 1 year AEGD does not count as payback but it also doesnt incur another year.

In my situation for instance. i plan on doing a one year AEGD (or another specialty) then serving my 4 years (who knows, i may stay in if i like it) I will then come out with 0 debt, a lot of great dental experience and life experiences serving my country and a lot of money saved for a house/practice. The school i am attending has a cost of attendance of $450,000ish and at 7-8% interest, with a 20 year payback its closer to a million, ouch. feels nice not having to worry about that.

 

[youraverageasia]

I always enjoy hearing people's rationalizations for why not to do the military cause they usually need to be taken with a grain of salt. My father is a dentist and I grew up knowing exactly what kind of stress school loans and the cost of a practice can put on someone. He as well as all of his colleagues have told me for years that if there is a way to graduate school debt free, you would be foolish not to take it. This includes the military. I have talked to a lot of pre dental students about the military and what their thoughts are on it. Almost without fail, the reasons not to do it are the same. "Private practice dentists make more, $250K in debt isn't that much, 4 yrs of military service isn't worth it, I'll be making so much in private practice that I won't be worrying about my loans." These are all illusions. Guess who the ones are who continually say these things? The people that did not grow up with a dentist in the family. Almost every pre-dental student I talk to, whose family member is a dentist, says they are definitely going to do the military, because of the advice they have gotten from their family member. @Incis0r laid everything out very well. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the magnitude of the debt that you will be facing, compared to the pay you will be getting as a dentist. You simply have to be realistic and realize that you aren't going to be that one dentist in a thousand who is making $500,000/year in take home pay. Especially in your first four years! You could graduate with 250k in debt and go work as an associate to someone making approximately 100K/year for at least the first four years (hopefully you are buying a practice and not starting your own, cause that would be even more financially straining). From that 100k, you will have a couple thousand in school loans, and a couple thousand going towards the purchase of the practice you are working at (if you are purchasing it). If you are lucky, you will take home $60,000 after taxes. OR you could be working for the military for those 4 years, actually getting more exposure to interesting cases, getting $90,000/year and have no debt. After four years, you go be an associate for someone, you have great experience and you start out making $120k as the associate. You have 0 debt, money in the bank, and you are able to purchase the practice at a few thousand per month and still have plenty of money to live on. I agree that not everyone is cut out for the military. That is fine if you aren't. However, don't let your reason be because you are blinded by the idea that you can get way richer as a private practice dentist. When you look at the numbers, you can actually be way better off in the end if you go the military route. Ask any dentist who actually had to pay for their own school loans and not whose parents payed for it, and they will confirm this. It took my dad 16 years to pay off his school loans. 16 yrs of having a noose around his neck. In dental school, he and my mom lived like nuns. They lived in mortuaries to get free rent, and he had to wake up in the middle of the night to go pick up bodies. They also managed apartments where all of my dads free time went to painting and cleaning and showing apartments. My mom also had to work countless jobs just so that they could make ends meet and have food to eat every day. On top of this, when they graduated it still took many years of sacrifice to pay off their school loans, on top of practice loans, house payment, car payments, and providing for their kids. Guess what, I won't have to do any of that. I will live comfortably through dental school, graduate debt free, have great exposure in my first four years, and not have a noose around my neck for the next 16 years. Of course there is a catch with the military @Frychicken . They are giving you a $500,000 value scholarship and the catch is that you owe them some service in return. Nothing is free in life. People often don't do the military cause, heaven forbid, the military actually requires you to do something in return for the monetary gift they have given to you. Our generation is a little too "gimme gimme gimme" We want everything given to us without giving in return. The bottom line is that the military is NOT for everyone and you need to decide for yourself. Don't let it be because of the money though, cause it makes way more financial sense to go military than not. Don't let it be cause you don't want to have to payback four years. That is a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of your life. Think about the military from the perspective of your 50 yr old self. Was the military something that gave you valuable life experiences, did it benefit you financially, was it an accomplishment that you can be proud about? If so then you should do it. Always ask yourself, What is ten years to a pig? In ten years you will be in your mid 30's no matter what. In the meantime what is a few years of military service going to hurt? How can it help you? Is the financial benefit worth it? This is a classic case of tortoise and the hare. The tortoise goes the military route and the hare says he doesn't need the military cause he can do it on his own and in the end we all know who wins the financial race - the tortoise. This is my opinion but trust me I have thought long and hard about this for many years and talked to many dentists and many accountants who work with dentists. This is the best route to take from a financial perspective. Best of luck in your decision and let me know if you have any questions about the Air Force HPSP!

Thanks for the awesome insight! Strictly financially speaking, if I attend my state school and tuition ends up just around 100 k, do you believe it is more profitable to forgo the military and work right away? Or even with a tuition that's on the lower end, is the military still financially worth it?

 

[SM555]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/37-reasons-not-to-be-a-military-dentist.447909/

This pretty much explains why I didn't apply for it.

 

[midman19]

Are you a Texas resident? Most in state tuitions are closer to 160k with fees calculated in. You also have to look at living expenses too. You are going to incure 100k in living expenses alone. So even with only 100k in tuition and 100k in living expenses over the four years, you will still graduate with 200k in debt. That is still a lot of money so I would say it is worth it to do military. If you are living with your parents and your total tuition is only going to be 100k with no living expenses taken out, I would say that is manageable if you really don't feel interested in the military. However no matter what way you cut it, I still think you will benefit financially from the military. You'll get approx $25,000 per year living stipend from the military which if you are living at home or your spouse is working can be put into savings or even invested! If you invest that money the right way you could really graduate dental school in a good position! To answer your original question, 100k total loans is the absolute maximum point where I would maybe say it isnt necessarily as advantageous to do the military if it isnt your cup of tea. Anything above 100 k it would still be well worth your time to go military.

 

[yeslek88]

I suppose the obvious answer is because they don't want to? Or we could sit here for countless hours debating the minutiae of the human condition. Smart money is on the latter.

 

[youraverageasia]

Are you a Texas resident? Most in state tuitions are closer to 160k with fees calculated in. You also have to look at living expenses too. You are going to incure 100k in living expenses alone. So even with only 100k in tuition and 100k in living expenses over the four years, you will still graduate with 200k in debt. That is still a lot of money so I would say it is worth it to do military. If you are living with your parents and your total tuition is only going to be 100k with no living expenses taken out, I would say that is manageable if you really don't feel interested in the military. However no matter what way you cut it, I still think you will benefit financially from the military. You'll get approx $25,000 per year living stipend from the military which if you are living at home or your spouse is working can be put into savings or even invested! If you invest that money the right way you could really graduate dental school in a good position! To answer your original question, 100k total loans is the absolute maximum point where I would maybe say it isnt necessarily as advantageous to do the military if it isnt your cup of tea. Anything above 100 k it would still be well worth your time to go military.

When should I be contacting the officers for these scholarships? I will be applying to dental schools this summer.

 

[midman19]

It depends on which branch. The navy and army have board dates (when they decide who will get the scholarship) much earlier than the air force. This summer, I would get in contact with each Recruiter to find out exactly when you'll need start the process and to get a feel for which branches you would like to apply to. You could know about the army or navy as early as december as to whether or not you got the scholarship. With the Air Force you probably won't even be able to start any forms until you have an acceptance letter from dental school. (December 1st) and you wouldn't find out if you got it til next April. I checked in with my recruiter every so often starting in the summer so that he knew I was still interested even before I had officially applied. This wouldn't hurt to do the same.

 

[Incis0r]

I always enjoy hearing people's rationalizations for why not to do the military cause they usually need to be taken with a grain of salt. My father is a dentist and I grew up knowing exactly what kind of stress school loans and the cost of a practice can put on someone. He as well as all of his colleagues have told me for years that if there is a way to graduate school debt free, you would be foolish not to take it. This includes the military. I have talked to a lot of pre dental students about the military and what their thoughts are on it. Almost without fail, the reasons not to do it are the same. "Private practice dentists make more, $250K in debt isn't that much, 4 yrs of military service isn't worth it, I'll be making so much in private practice that I won't be worrying about my loans." These are all illusions. Guess who the ones are who continually say these things? The people that did not grow up with a dentist in the family. Almost every pre-dental student I talk to, whose family member is a dentist, says they are definitely going to do the military, because of the advice they have gotten from their family member. @Incis0r laid everything out very well. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize the magnitude of the debt that you will be facing, compared to the pay you will be getting as a dentist. You simply have to be realistic and realize that you aren't going to be that one dentist in a thousand who is making $500,000/year in take home pay. Especially in your first four years! You could graduate with 250k in debt and go work as an associate to someone making approximately 100K/year for at least the first four years (hopefully you are buying a practice and not starting your own, cause that would be even more financially straining). From that 100k, you will have a couple thousand in school loans, and a couple thousand going towards the purchase of the practice you are working at (if you are purchasing it). If you are lucky, you will take home $60,000 after taxes. OR you could be working for the military for those 4 years, actually getting more exposure to interesting cases, getting $90,000/year and have no debt. After four years, you go be an associate for someone, you have great experience and you start out making $120k as the associate. You have 0 debt, money in the bank, and you are able to purchase the practice at a few thousand per month and still have plenty of money to live on. I agree that not everyone is cut out for the military. That is fine if you aren't. However, don't let your reason be because you are blinded by the idea that you can get way richer as a private practice dentist. When you look at the numbers, you can actually be way better off in the end if you go the military route. Ask any dentist who actually had to pay for their own school loans and not whose parents payed for it, and they will confirm this. It took my dad 16 years to pay off his school loans. 16 yrs of having a noose around his neck. In dental school, he and my mom lived like nuns. They lived in mortuaries to get free rent, and he had to wake up in the middle of the night to go pick up bodies. They also managed apartments where all of my dads free time went to painting and cleaning and showing apartments. My mom also had to work countless jobs just so that they could make ends meet and have food to eat every day. On top of this, when they graduated it still took many years of sacrifice to pay off their school loans, on top of practice loans, house payment, car payments, and providing for their kids. Guess what, I won't have to do any of that. I will live comfortably through dental school, graduate debt free, have great exposure in my first four years, and not have a noose around my neck for the next 16 years. Of course there is a catch with the military @Frychicken . They are giving you a $500,000 value scholarship and the catch is that you owe them some service in return. Nothing is free in life. People often don't do the military cause, heaven forbid, the military actually requires you to do something in return for the monetary gift they have given to you. Our generation is a little too "gimme gimme gimme" We want everything given to us without giving in return. The bottom line is that the military is NOT for everyone and you need to decide for yourself. Don't let it be because of the money though, cause it makes way more financial sense to go military than not. Don't let it be cause you don't want to have to payback four years. That is a drop in the bucket compared to the rest of your life. Think about the military from the perspective of your 50 yr old self. Was the military something that gave you valuable life experiences, did it benefit you financially, was it an accomplishment that you can be proud about? If so then you should do it. Always ask yourself, What is ten years to a pig? In ten years you will be in your mid 30's no matter what. In the meantime what is a few years of military service going to hurt? How can it help you? Is the financial benefit worth it? This is a classic case of tortoise and the hare. The tortoise goes the military route and the hare says he doesn't need the military cause he can do it on his own and in the end we all know who wins the financial race - the tortoise. This is my opinion but trust me I have thought long and hard about this for many years and talked to many dentists and many accountants who work with dentists. This is the best route to take from a financial perspective. Best of luck in your decision and let me know if you have any questions about the Air Force HPSP!

2 things:
1. Your parents are awesome.
2. You're going to be an amazing officer!

 

[DATtestTho]

It depends on which branch. The navy and army have board dates (when they decide who will get the scholarship) much earlier than the air force. This summer, I would get in contact with each Recruiter to find out exactly when you'll need start the process and to get a feel for which branches you would like to apply to. You could know about the army or navy as early as december as to whether or not you got the scholarship. With the Air Force you probably won't even be able to start any forms until you have an acceptance letter from dental school. (December 1st) and you wouldn't find out if you got it til next April. I checked in with my recruiter every so often starting in the summer so that he knew I was still interested even before I had officially applied. This wouldn't hurt to do the same.

No you can actually find out earlier. I found out I got the Army 4 Yr HPSP in October. Then Navy in December.

 

[Faux]

Are you a Texas resident? Most in state tuitions are closer to 160k with fees calculated in. You also have to look at living expenses too. You are going to incure 100k in living expenses alone. So even with only 100k in tuition and 100k in living expenses over the four years, you will still graduate with 200k in debt. That is still a lot of money so I would say it is worth it to do military. If you are living with your parents and your total tuition is only going to be 100k with no living expenses taken out, I would say that is manageable if you really don't feel interested in the military. However no matter what way you cut it, I still think you will benefit financially from the military. You'll get approx $25,000 per year living stipend from the military which if you are living at home or your spouse is working can be put into savings or even invested! If you invest that money the right way you could really graduate dental school in a good position! To answer your original question, 100k total loans is the absolute maximum point where I would maybe say it isnt necessarily as advantageous to do the military if it isnt your cup of tea. Anything above 100 k it would still be well worth your time to go military.

100k with living expenses covered, being manageable? Its more than manageable. We're talking less than 1.5k a month in payments if a person chooses to pay it back in 10 years and definitely below 1k if they choose +15 years. Its fine to be pro military but the numbers don't lie if the debt is that low. Even at 150k-300k, its not as black and white as your describe it if a person is rather conservative for a bit and not start with the house/car payments and having multiple kids immediately after school.

 

[Bis-GMA111]

So the military scholarship seems like a great gig. What are some reasons some students dont pursue it?

b/c people think military, and they get scared. seriously

 

[Bis-GMA111]

soldier first, dentist second.

also, 70k salary and less exposure to interesting/complex cases.

yes and no. yes, you have to go to commissioned officer training, and you have to learn basics like land navigation, etc. but...you're a dentist. that's your job.

 

[Bis-GMA111]

I've seriously considered this route due to the huge debt any dental school puts you in but ultimately I've decided not to do it. I think it depends on your long term goals/plans.

I want to own my own practice and establish myself as early as possible. Dental school and the military don't teach you how to be a successful owner like associating for a good dentist will.

Also, many general dentists like to do the more expensive procedures such as implants, wisdom teeth, and root canals. From what I've heard from several accounts, general dentists are more or less forced to outsource those procedures to the specialist while in the military rather than taking a crack at them yourself. If you owe the military 4 years it could be 4 years of checks, fillings, amalgams, and extractions. Anything you learned in school about root canals, wisdom teeth, implants, etc won't be practiced for four years. That puts you behind the 8 ball on making money in the long term. Plus I've seen several spreadsheets where civilian dentists end up making more after 10 years than military dentists even with having to pay off 300k in student loans.

Of course, I've not personally experienced either route yet as I'm just about to be a DS1. According to my research and what I want in the long run I've decided against HPSP. But it's good for people who can't handle the stress of having that much debt.

That's my $0.02

yes, the 'word on the street' is that if you don't do a residency and just do 4 years, you'll be doing a lot of drill and fill. if you're on a large base, that's probably going to be the case. but who knows..if you're at a smaller base, you'll probably get more exposure. it all depends on the situation, but for me personally--i'd recommend doing the 1 or 2 year even if you're set on doing general dentistry. the scope that they offer in the military (especially for the 2 year) is pretty insane. you're trained with the expectation that you'll be one of a few dentists for a lot of troops, so you'll need to be well rounded.

there's a trend that's moving towards doing aegds and gprs even in the civilian world. trust me..dental school and the real world aren't really similar. it's highly recommended that you pursue additional training anyway. and in the grand scheme of things, a year or 2 doing an aegd won't make a difference. should you choose the military option, you still get paid 80-90k a year even while doing a residency.

from a strictly financial standpoint, if you're doing general dentistry, the military route is tough to beat.

 

[toothdriller2k17]

yeah i'm gonna have to agree that the HPSP is definitely worth it. if i didn't get some help from my school, i was going to take the navy scholarship. even with $$ that i got, i'm still paying an arm and a leg. my advice is to just do it. you'll thank yourself later.

people have this mentality going into dental school that they'll be making so much money and that the cost of an education is going to be a drop in the hat...that couldn't be farther from the truth...take it from someone who goes to one of the most expensive schools in the country. life is all happy until dental school starts and you get that tuition bill. and then you realize that interest is already starting to accrue on those loans. it sucks.

 

[I want to go to there]

It takes precious years from your life that you can be using making connections, expanding your practice, etc. If you have connections and your clinical skills are good, you can make a lot more than the monetary value of HPSP. There are people who open up practice right after they graduate and have great succes, you have be confident in your skills since no one's going to be there to hold your hands, but you can make bank.

 

[toothdriller2k17]

It takes precious years from your life that you can be using making connections, expanding your practice, etc. If you have connections and your clinical skills are good, you can make a lot more than the monetary value of HPSP. There are people who open up practice right after they graduate and have great succes, you have be confident in your skills since no one's going to be there to hold your hands, but you can make bank.

precious years from your life? dude the time that you spend in your initial commitment is nothing compared to your career in dentistry. and it's not like you don't make money. if you're 500k in the hole, what precious life would you have? what, so your plan is to open up a practice right out of school? what would you know about running a dental office without being an associate first? you're going to throw your money at henry schein or some dental company to manage your practice for you?

opening up a practice straight out of school is so risky. in my experiences the only people who do that already have connections, like a family member is a dentist and is hooking it up, or the person's family is so rich that they can just give that kind of capital to start a practice and potentially sustain a loss in case things don't work out as well.

and i wanna say that it's pretty amazing to see what the military does for students. the students at my school don't pay for anything...and to be honest i'm jealous of it haha, but oh well. you make decisions and you live with them.

 

[I want to go to there]

precious years from your life? dude the time that you spend in your initial commitment is nothing compared to your career in dentistry. and it's not like you don't make money. what, so your plan is to open up a practice right out of school? what would you know about running a dental office without being an associate first? you're going to throw your money at henry schein or some dental company to manage your practice for you?

opening up a practice straight out of school is so risky. in my experiences the only people who do that already have connections, like a family member is a dentist and is hooking it up, or the person's family is so rich that they can just give that kind of capital to start a practice and potentially sustain a loss in case things don't work out as well.

That's why I mentioned connections. Also, no risk no gain. If you don't wanna deal with business management side, it's fine to hire them. They don't cost all the much and you don't have to deal with the stress.

I plan on working my ass off at dental school so I can be prepared to open up my own practice after graduating. I don't want to be another dentist who graduates and work as an associate and delay their plans of opening their own practice(s).

 

[Sweet_Tooth]

I have a very strong opinion about this but it's probably just going to offend everyone so I'll just keep it to myself

 

[Incis0r]

I have a very strong opinion about this but it's probably just going to offend everyone so I'll just keep it to myself

Can you tell me? I promise I won't be offended...or you can PM me with it if you want. I would love to hear what you have to say.

 

[Sweet_Tooth]

Okay, but don't say I didn't warn you.

Joining the army goes against everything that I stand for. Dentistry is supposed to be about helping others and making their lives easier. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like US soldiers do that for the citizens of the countries they're deployed in. I don't find anything honorable in blindly following orders from a government that may or may not always know what it is doing (uh, what weapons of mass destruction? No offense but we were the ones that caused the most destruction in Iraq). What about our hypocritical alliance with Saudi Arabia? We only care about the oppression of women when Iran is doing it but when our oil rich allies force women to clad themselves in black from head to toe and don't permit them to drive (!) we don't say a word. One word: h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y. There's a lot of things wrong with what our government is doing for the sake of power and money.

I have been born and raised in America. This is my home. I am grateful for the opportunities I have been provided here. However, I find many aspects of our foreign policy disturbing. Why are we so concerned about the state of other countries? Why must there always be troops stationed in countries? Why do we spend billions of dollars in military spending while here, at home, there are people living below the poverty line? I do not see anything honorable in serving such a cause. It's even less ethical to blindly follow orders in exchange for money.

I think I've said enough lol. I know I've offended a lot of you probably, my apologies, this is just my opinion.

I'll leave you with a very relevant favorite quote of mine's: "You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it." ~Malcolm X

 

[darknightzzz]

No you can actually find out earlier. I found out I got the Army 4 Yr HPSP in October. Then Navy in December.

that is because you have 22A or above, they are willing to give u the decision with the assumption you will get in dental school. Less than 22A you gotta wait till admission letter comes in Dec 1st earliest

 

[toothdriller2k17]

That's why I mentioned connections. Also, no risk no gain. If you don't wanna deal with business management side, it's fine to hire them. They don't cost all the much and you don't have to deal with the stress.

I plan on working my ass off at dental school so I can be prepared to open up my own practice after graduating. I don't want to be another dentist who graduates and work as an associate and delay their plans of opening their own practice(s).

k. you can hire them for business management, and then you can hire them to build you a top notch practice. maybe you can hire them to bring you patients too. let me know how that goes when you're trying to pay that debt down.

but seriously, go through dental school first. your ambition is really great. just make sure it doesn't dwindle in dental school.

 

[toothdriller2k17]

Okay, but don't say I didn't warn you.

Joining the army goes against everything that I stand for. Dentistry is supposed to be about helping others and making their lives easier. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like US soldiers do that for the citizens of the countries they're deployed in. I don't find anything honorable in blindly following orders from a government that may or may not always know what it is doing (uh, what weapons of mass destruction? No offense but we were the ones that caused the most destruction in Iraq). What about our hypocritical alliance with Saudi Arabia? We only care about the oppression of women when Iran is doing it but when our oil rich allies force women to clad themselves in black from head to toe and don't permit them to drive (!) we don't say a word. One word: h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y. There's a lot of things wrong with what our government is doing for the sake of power and money.

I have been born and raised in America. This is my home. I am grateful for the opportunities I have been provided here. However, I find many aspects of our foreign policy disturbing. Why are we so concerned about the state of other countries? Why must there always be troops stationed in countries? Why do we spend billions of dollars in military spending while here, at home, there are people living below the poverty line? I do not see anything honorable in serving such a cause. It's even less ethical to blindly follow orders in exchange for money.

I think I've said enough lol. I know I've offended a lot of you probably, my apologies, this is just my opinion.

I'll leave you with a very relevant favorite quote of mine's: "You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it." ~Malcolm X

man you better not take the corporate route after dental school, no matter how much they pay you. that'll be h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y at its finest.

there are way too many asinine notions in your statement, sooo i'm just going to say that it would prob. be best to stop watching michael moore documentaries.

you're grateful for the opportunities that are provided to you, yet you're essentially berating the men and women who continue to pave the way for those opportunities? and what, serving them is against what you believe?

and i mean, okay, our foreign policy isn't perfect but that is no fault of the men and women who serve.

 

[Tired]

Why are we so concerned about the state of other countries? Why must there always be troops stationed in countries? Why do we spend billions of dollars in military spending while here, at home, there are people living below the poverty line? I do not see anything honorable in serving such a cause. It's even less ethical to blindly follow orders in exchange for money.

We also eat babies.

I'll leave you with a very relevant favorite quote of mine's: "You're not to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who does it or says it." ~Malcolm X

"If you're not ready to die for it, put the word 'freedom' out of your vocabulary." -Malcolm X

 

[AlbinoPolarBear]

"Everyone has their beliefs, which will not be swayed by discussion, so people should stop bickering so much over the internet"
-Abraham Lincoln

 

[AlbinoPolarBear]

Good discussion about NOT going the military route here:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/37-reasons-not-to-be-a-military-dentist.447909/

 

[Sweet_Tooth]

"Everyone has their beliefs, which will not be swayed by discussion, so people should stop bickering so much over the internet"
-Abraham Lincoln

Very funny, but the quotes used in the post were actually legitimate quotes from Malcolm X

 

[AlbinoPolarBear]

Very funny, but the quotes used in the post were actually legitimate quotes from Malcolm X

Why wouldn't they be?

 

[midman19]

100k with living expenses covered, being manageable? Its more than manageable. We're talking less than 1.5k a month in payments if a person chooses to pay it back in 10 years and definitely below 1k if they choose +15 years. Its fine to be pro military but the numbers don't lie if the debt is that low. Even at 150k-300k, its not as black and white as your describe it if a person is rather conservative for a bit and not start with the house/car payments and having multiple kids immediately after school.

Yeah and how many people have the ability to be conservative when they're now a "big rich dentist" and they've lived like a nun for the last however many years? They driven a crappy car throughout dental school and now they are making real money. Continuing to live conservative as a dentist is much easier said than done.

 

[midman19]

That's why I mentioned connections. Also, no risk no gain. If you don't wanna deal with business management side, it's fine to hire them. They don't cost all the much and you don't have to deal with the stress.

I plan on working my ass off at dental school so I can be prepared to open up my own practice after graduating. I don't want to be another dentist who graduates and work as an associate and delay their plans of opening their own practice(s).

If you think that working your butt off in dental school is going to make you prepared to open up your own practice, then I worry for you. Youre destined to be one of those guys who graduates, builds a million dollar office and hopes people just start showing up cause you have flat panel TVs in your ceiling and a cool fish tank. You will be as broke as Allen Iverson in less than two years and you will wish you would have been a little bit more realistic about your ability to handle school loans and start your own practice in an over saturated field of dentistry. Let us all know how it goes for you. Your plans are beyond ambitious but I guess there's always a chance of hitting the jackpot when you take "big risks".

 

[ktran17]

It really depends on the individual. If the person does not have anything that forces them to stay in a particular location like family, SO, etc then doing the HPSP/NHSC is a no brainer.

If you assume a COA of 300k after the end of your fourth year and a 10 year repayment on interest, that's 120k additional interest. If we live in a hypothetical situation, the military will save you "30k" per year on interest. I'm lumping all that interest to your AD years to simplify some calculations below.

Now, if you divide 300k/4 you'll get 75k per year from the scholarship.

Lastly, if you add your AD pay ~90k + 30k + 75k = 195k.

In other words, you're effectively starting at 195k per year as a military dentist. That is the approximate worth of the scholarship, don't forget that I didn't even take into consideration that only "~65k out 195k" of that income is actually taxed. In addition, as an associate, you're paying your student loans with POST-TAX dollars. There's no way most associates can match the value gained from HPSP, at least during the first four years out of dental school.

Finances aside, I think the individual should have a drive and will to actually want to serve their country.

 

[I want to go to there]

well okay, this escalated pretty quickly. first off, everyone is entitled to an opinion so there's that

also i'd like to add that buying a practice right out of school is high risk-high reward. if you're coming out of dental school with no sort of close mentorship (i.e. a family member or someone who will be like 'hey i'm going to give this practice to you one day'), then you're potentially setting yourself up for disaster. dental school is not the same as the real world. you won't have to wait for faculty signatures to start and end procedures, you won't have to spend various appointments doing something that will later take you 15 minutes to do out in private practice. you don't have that cushion of school is what i'm saying. coming out of school, you won't know how to extract 3rd molars, give iv sedation, do a complete implant placement, etc. that requires CE courses, aka more $$ that you would have to spend. but what about this practice that you've invested in? who is going to run it while you catch up learning ''real world'' dentistry?

all i'm saying is, talk is cheap. once you really get into the thick of school @I want to go to there, you can talk about wanting to do certain things but as many of the people on here will tell you, you should pick up a hand piece first and experience the field first hand.

also, as @toothdriller2k17 mentioned, having a company like henry schein finance your practice is a bad idea, at least for your first practice. not because you're most probably going to be ripped off, but where are you going to get the money to pay them? they're not cheap. people will care to some extent about what your office looks like (enter henry schein), but making a booming office is largely about patient rapport, and doing a fast, nice, clean job while charging less $$ than the next guy (unless you're an esthetic dentistry prodigy, in which case image is a little more important but that's a different story) you can't be as flexible about these sorts of things as much if you constantly have the debt in the back of your mind.

speaking from a financial perspective, unless you want to practice unethical dentistry and/or work for a corporate chain under ownership, i don't see you paying off the debt anywhere close to as fast as if you were in the military/taking another scholarship option. it just isn't feasible, especially if you want to have a family, a house, etc.

but of course, you got into dental school, and you have this ''i'm gonna prove the naysayers wrong'' attitude, and life is all great because you're going to be a doctor...which i totally get, i was there once. but, then you get immersed in school and you realize that it's going to be a lot tougher than you thought.

I plan on specializing. Before you say that I shouldn't decide on specializing yet, I've been aiming for dentistry for a long time and I now know what I want to do in dentistry. I know this means I won't have much of a life for next few years and I'm fine with that. If I'm spending hundreds of thousands of dollars and extra 4+ years of my life on education, I'm shooting for the top and am gonna have big goals. No idea how it will turn out, but I'm going to give my all and see what happens. But, no way in hell am I setting my goal to become an associate after I graduate. Goal you set is suppose to be an ideal future you see for yourself.

 

[Screwtape]

I will be around $250k in debt when I graduate, so definitely not a crushing amount like $400-500k people often talk about here. If that debt load were my only option I would have probably gone military. I still thought about the military a fair amount, however the final kicker was the 4 years you owe them on reserve AFTER your 4 years of active (seems to throw a wrench into opening a solo practice after you get out). I also think if your goal is to own a private practice then it is much more advantageous associating/working in that type of practice for 4 years instead of in the military machine for 4 years-- for many reasons (types of procedures, business aspects, etc). I also would have a hard time giving up many of the civilian perks, but that is definitely personal preference. All food for thought, best of luck!

 

[tbiv21]

I will be around $250k in debt when I graduate, so definitely not a crushing amount like $400-500k people often talk about here. If that debt load were my only option I would have probably gone military. I still thought about the military a fair amount, however the final kicker was the 4 years you owe them on reserve AFTER your 4 years of active (seems to throw a wrench into opening a solo practice after you get out). I also think if your goal is to own a private practice then it is much more advantageous associating/working in that type of practice for 4 years instead of in the military machine for 4 years-- for many reasons (types of procedures, business aspects, etc). I also would have a hard time giving up many of the civilian perks, but that is definitely personal preference. All food for thought, best of luck!

The four years after you get out are inactive ready reserve and not the normal reserves where you have to be gone one weekend a month and two weeks a year. You would only be pulled back if in dire need like a war serious enough to implement the draft again.

 

[Incis0r]

HPSP students are put into the IRR after serving their active duty service obligation.

 

[matty675]

I don't think being on individual ready reserve will throw a wrench in any of your post active duty plans. There is no time commitment.

 

[Incis0r]

@I want to go to there which specialty?

 

[LFA20]

No dentists have been called from the IRR. We'll have plenty of new hpspers that come in and replace us..

 

[Screwtape]

@Screwtape it is true that you owe 4 years of reserve (3 if you do a 1 year AEGD) after your active duty service obligation, but I think you have confused which reserve dentists from HPSP are put into.

You do not do anything military-like in the Inactive Ready Reserve (IRR) except for the occasional yearly drill (a weekend I believe?). This is completely different from the active reserves, where you do one weekend a month and two weeks a year of drilling. No dentist has ever been called back from the IRR. Dentists have been called back from the active reserves. HPSP students are put into the IRR after serving their active duty service obligation- therefore, the claim that reserves throw a "wrench" into opening your practice is false.

I really hope that the reserve issue was not the main reason why you went away from the HPSP, because if that is the case, you just missed out on an amazing deal.

Fair enough, I guess the dentist I talked to about it was in the active reserves by choice then. And no it wasn't the main reason, with my debt load and life priorities it didn't seem like a good deal for me. Although it can be a very good deal for others. Sorry for the confusion ladies and gents.