Is there any difference between going to a Irish/UK school and a for-profit Caribbean school?

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Jloyay

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If the purpose is the get back to Canada or the US to practice, is there any difference between the two? From what I understand Caribbean schools tend to prepare their students towards obtaining residency in the USA and USMLEs but on the other hand Irish/UK schools tend to focus on educating their own citizens/residents while accepting internationals but they are actual schools not businesses.

Can anyone set me up on the differences?

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Whatever differences there may be they are minimal compared to the massive negatives of both. That being you will likely not be able to get a residency in either of those countries. Improve your app and try again or pick a different career.
 
If the purpose is the get back to Canada or the US to practice, is there any difference between the two? From what I understand Caribbean schools tend to prepare their students towards obtaining residency in the USA and USMLEs but on the other hand Irish/UK schools tend to focus on educating their own citizens/residents while accepting internationals but they are actual schools not businesses.

Can anyone set me up on the differences?

Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland (RCSI) grad here, now doing Residency in the US.

You actually hit the nail right on the head. Caribbean schools are build off the american system, e.g. teaching toward the USMLE/aiming for an american residency. They are not aimed at creating graduates who can practice in the Caribbean. Irish medical schools are the opposite - they're aimed at creating doctors for the Irish medical system - preparing for the USMLE or obtaining american clinical rotations are up to you, if you want to do that (which a fair number of people Irish grads do, both Irish citizens and folks studying in Ireland but from elsewhere).

Where you need to watch out are the for-profit Caribbean schools. There are a LOT of horror stories out there about folks getting through medical school in the Caribbean but being unable to practice or obtain residency in the US. The Irish schools have the advantage of readying you to practice medicine, and having a job waiting for you (in Ireland) when you graduate from medical school. As far as I know, that's not the case with Caribbean schools.

If your purpose is returning to Canada or the US, I'm biased, but I would say your best bet is to go to Ireland. If nothing else, you'll be able to work following graduation from medical school - worst case scenario is doing a year in Ireland (as an intern), and then applying to the match in canada/the US. Probably one of the single biggest red flags is time off not doing anything between graduation from medical school and application for residency - and clinical time, e.g. in Ireland, is a massive advantage in applying. So there's that!

Plus, the Irish schools tend to actually do quite well in the match. I don't know specific stats, but in my year, something like 70% of people applying to canada or the US matched, and the year after, something like 80% did.

HOWEVER. Going anywhere outside the US or Canada, and then getting back in, is getting harder. The increasing number of american medical schools means that it WILL be getting harder to get back into the US or Canada after having left for medical school. How hard, I don't know. But the 'easiest' course of action in terms of residency would be to attend an american medical school, then apply for an american medical school.
 
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If your purpose is returning to Canada or the US, I'm biased, but I would say your best bet is to go to Ireland. If nothing else, you'll be able to work following graduation from medical school - worst case scenario is doing a year in Ireland (as an intern), and then applying to the match in canada/the US. Probably one of the single biggest red flags is time off not doing anything between graduation from medical school and application for residency - and clinical time, e.g. in Ireland, is a massive advantage in applying. So there's that!

Plus, the Irish schools tend to actually do quite well in the match. I don't know specific stats, but in my year, something like 70% of people applying to canada or the US matched, and the year after, something like 80% did.

HOWEVER. Going anywhere outside the US or Canada, and then getting back in, is getting harder. The increasing number of american medical schools means that it WILL be getting harder to get back into the US or Canada after having left for medical school. How hard, I don't know. But the 'easiest' course of action in terms of residency would be to attend an american medical school, then apply for an american medical school.

This is interesting. Do you know what kind of jobs are available in Ireland after doing a medical degree? I'm assuming they're clinical jobs?
 
This is interesting. Do you know what kind of jobs are available in Ireland after doing a medical degree? I'm assuming they're clinical jobs?

After you graduate from medical school in Ireland, you start into the Irish postgraduate medical education system, same as the US. You're an intern there, just like you would be in the US. You don't need to go back to the US after, and can go the full way into attending-ship in the Irish system, same as in the US. The post-graduate systems are different, but if you really want to stay in Ireland as an independantly practicing physician, you could.
 
If you could get into an UK school, you could get into an US school. Not sure how easy it is to secure a residency spot in Ireland as an international student and stay there to practise permanently, but this is certainly doable if you were to graduate from a UK medical school. At the end of the day however, you are taking a tremendous risk by going abroad either way. And do note that just about every single medical schools in Caribbean are for-profit, including the "big 4": SGU, Ross, etc.
 
I'm also looking at that difference, mainly comparing SGU, which I have many friends who have gone and matched fine, and the unknown applying and going to Ireland but being without that support network of an entire class of americans studying for the USMLE and applying for residencies etc that I would have at SGU. The only benefit I see for myself with Ireland is that I recently snagged an EU passport through some old family connection to poland so I could stay in the EU and practice if I didn't match back home (not that I would really want to stay but if worst comes to worst do an intern year in ireland and reapplying for the match)
 
After you graduate from medical school in Ireland, you start into the Irish postgraduate medical education system, same as the US. You're an intern there, just like you would be in the US. You don't need to go back to the US after, and can go the full way into attending-ship in the Irish system, same as in the US. The post-graduate systems are different, but if you really want to stay in Ireland as an independantly practicing physician, you could.

Hey i was just curious..aren't the Irish internships only guaranteed if you had a EU passport? Many of my friends decided against Ireland because of that sole reason.
 
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If you could get into an UK school, you could get into an US school. Not sure how easy it is to secure a residency spot in Ireland as an international student and stay there to practise permanently, but this is certainly doable if you were to graduate from a UK medical school. At the end of the day however, you are taking a tremendous risk by going abroad either way. And do note that just about every single medical schools in Caribbean are for-profit, including the "big 4": SGU, Ross, etc.

Don't confuse Ireland with UK schools. UK schools are more difficult to get into for internationals, mainly because they have a small quota of internationals that they take and I'm pretty sure you need to sit the British entrance exam, the UKCAT. For example Edinburgh takes like 17 internationals total and people from all over the world apply for those 17 spots probably. Also as far as I know none of the UK schools are grad entry, but most of the Irish schools are and they all accept the MCAT.
 
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@mcat_taker I agree with what you said, also, some UK schools are grad entry, I think around 15 offer GEM 4 year programs, but they are actually even more competitive than standard programs because so many people apply to them and they are often smaller programs with around 20-80 or so spots each year compared to the 150-400 cohorts of standard 5-6 year programs.

http://www.medschools.ac.uk/Students/Courses/Pages/Graduate.aspx

List of all GEM programs in the UK

http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/wiki/Graduate_Entry_Medicine_-_a_guide

Guide on GEM programs, best place to start off any research.
 
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Hey i was just curious..aren't the Irish internships only guaranteed if you had a EU passport? Many of my friends decided against Ireland because of that sole reason.

Yeah they are guaranteed if you have EU passport. But even then there are probably still spots available for North Americans so that avenue is still open provided your grades are above average.

Not sure about how tough it is though for non-EU to snatch up a spot. Can someone shed some light?
 
Yeah they are guaranteed if you have EU passport. But even then there are probably still spots available for North Americans so that avenue is still open provided your grades are above average.

Not sure about how tough it is though for non-EU to snatch up a spot. Can someone shed some light?

Short answer - it's not hard.
Long answer - even if you don't have an EU citizenship, it is still exceptionally likely that you'll be able to get an intern spot and/or apply for further training if you want it. Same as in the US, the number of intern posts around the country are a set number every year. They are intentionally set close to or just above the number of new graduates expected from ALL Irish medical schools - including foreign students studying in Ireland. However, all EU citizens are guaranteed (as in, constitutionally and legally) an intern spot if they apply. So, the 'risk' lies in there being an exceptionally high number of non Irish, EU citizens (e.g. france, germany, UK, etc) applying to Ireland, so much so that the number of them exceeds the number of spots available to train, since they are required to give them to EU citizens before giving them to non EU citizens. I don't know of this ever having happened, but it's theoretically possible. Speaking from anecdotal experience only (I don't have figures), I don't know of anyone who graduated medical school in Ireland, wanted to do intern year, but was unable to do so. I've also (again, anecdotally) understood that the intern postings almost never fill. When they do (non anecdotally), order of preference is as follows:
1 - Irish Citizens
2 - EU Citizens
3 - Non EU citizens, in descending order of grades during medical school.

That's what @torontopharm is referencing re 'Irish internships only guaranteed if you had a EU passport.'
 
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I should also clarify - a relatively large number (e.g. maybe 20%?) of ALL irish medical grads don't pursue intern training because they go elsewhere, be it back to North America, Middle East, Australia, etc. So there is a fairly reasonable capacity for the number of internship jobs available to absorb EU citizens who trained outside Ireland, while still leaving spaces for non irish, non eu citizens.
 
how about if i go to an Irish med school, then want to practice in England or Scotland?
assume i don't have EU citizenship by that time, how difficult would it be?
 
how about if i go to an Irish med school, then want to practice in England or Scotland?
assume i don't have EU citizenship by that time, how difficult would it be?

At the SGUL interview they said the Conservative government is cutting back funding for the NHS and there are very little internships available for non-EU.
 
At the SGUL interview they said the Conservative government is cutting back funding for the NHS and there are very little internships available for non-EU.

Like Non-EU med school grads? or non-EU citizen EU grads
 
Non EU citizens who went to med school in a EU country.

Hmm, but that shouldn't affect SGUL students then, because UK grads are still allowed to stay for FY1 as they don't need to go through the RLMT.
 
i talked with SGUL representative; she said that staying in the UK is not recommended and the program is designed for you to return to the US & Canada... http://www.intohigher.com/uk/en-gb/...k-after-completion-of-the-mbbs-programme.aspx

i think even though you can stay for the Foundation years, when it comes to apply for specialty training, they'll give preference to UK AND EU citizens.

That can't be true, because once you are a foundation year, they won't judge you any differently. At least from what I know.

The SGUL representative probably wants you to go back to the US and Canada thats not surprising since that is what the program is designed for.
 
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