Is this a mistake???

[cyclist05]

So I just got my AMCAS application verified and they calculated my GPA to be a lot higher than I had anticipated. When calculating my GPA, they seem to have left out two classes that I received F's in during my freshman year. The spaces where the semester hours and AMCAS grade should be are left blank. My OT grade for both classes is an E (which my university uses instead of an F). I repeated both of these courses later on in college.

I had calculated my GPA to be 3.23 (both bcpm and cumulative), but AMCAS says it's 3.37 bcpm and 3.32 overall.

Has this happened to anyone else??? Aren't they supposed to factor in failing grades? I feel really bad about it. Part of me wants to just pretend like I don't know it's wrong and just take the better GPA, but I think the guilt would kill me!

I guess I will call AMCAS on Monday morning and see what they say about it.

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[Shredder]

haha, take it and run, lance

 

[Psycho Doctor]

So I just got my AMCAS application verified and they calculated my GPA to be a lot higher than I had anticipated. When calculating my GPA, they seem to have left out two classes that I received F's in during my freshman year. The spaces where the semester hours and AMCAS grade should be are left blank. My OT grade for both classes is an E (which my university uses instead of an F). I repeated both of these courses later on in college.

I had calculated my GPA to be 3.23 (both bcpm and cumulative), but AMCAS says it's 3.37 bcpm and 3.32 overall.

Has this happened to anyone else??? Aren't they supposed to factor in failing grades? I feel really bad about it. Part of me wants to just pretend like I don't know it's wrong and just take the better GPA, but I think the guilt would kill me!

I guess I will call AMCAS on Monday morning and see what they say about it.

i wouldn't call them. let them figure it out, maybe they actually don't count it.

 

[USArmyDoc]

Don't call. Like Shredder said take it and run. You did you job of correctly getting it to them.

 

[Noway]

seriously, just leave it alone

 

[eccles1214]

At least your anonymous here.

 

[wowzer]

A simialr thing happened to me, where I had withdrawn from a class and I put a W; however, AMAS processed it and there was no W; the class had been eliminated. I think that the OT you turn in may have not even included the classes you had received F's in, sicne you ahd retaken them, and that you got lucky cause they didn't catch their error.

 

[dajimmers]

I'd check your official transcripts at your school to see if the failed classes are listed there. If so, you may have to worry whether any schools that accept you will also ask for an official transcript. It seems that they will, since they need to know how you perform over the next year...

Of course, if they mentioned it to you, you could just claim ignorance and that you hadn't thouroughly checked for AMCAS mistakes...

 

[Law2Doc]

I'd check your official transcripts at your school to see if the failed classes are listed there. If so, you may have to worry whether any schools that accept you will also ask for an official transcript. It seems that they will, since they need to know how you perform over the next year...

Of course, if they mentioned it to you, you could just claim ignorance and that you hadn't thouroughly checked for AMCAS mistakes...

Agree with this post. While they usually rely on AMCAS during the application process, ALL med schools tend to require official transcripts sent to them before you matriculate. You should also note that you will be asked in secondaries etc. to sign statements indicating that everything you have provided in your application is true to the best of your knowledge, so technically since you know the AMCAS is wrong, you would be committing fraud by signing this. So you probably should call AMCAS and make sure they handled it the way it should have been handled.
Lesson to be learned here -- George Orwell was right -- "Ignorance is Bliss".

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

I agree with Law2Doc. I think you'd probably be better off in the long run if you called and sorted it out. You have to ask yourself what's worse, the difference between a 3.23 and a 3.37 or getting caught lying on your AMCAS? The former can be overcome if you're a good enough candidate. The latter speaks to your integrity as a person and if you lose that it is immensely more difficult to repair.

 

[ShyRem]

Cyclist, one of my old transcripts also uses E instead of F. On that particular transcript there are no course hours listed for the E classes, so I entered them exactly as they appeared on my transcript (hours blank and an E). AMCAS processed these courses with no hours, so they didn't affect my AMCAS GPA. (AACOMAS on the other hand put 4 hours in for each class and dumped my GPA into the toilet )

I appreciated the fact that they put the grades and hours down like they were on my transcript - if my institution didn't give the classes any hour weight, then AMCAS shouldn't either.

 

[hardy]

You have to ask yourself what's worse, the difference between a 3.23 and a 3.37 or getting caught lying on your AMCAS? The former can be overcome if you're a good enough candidate. The latter speaks to your integrity as a person and if you lose that it is immensely more difficult to repair.

He did not lie but filled his grades out correctly. It is the AAMC who made changes to it. Since you do not know the reason why they made the change, I would in good faith assume that they did exactly what they had to do. The course and the transcript grade is still listed on his AMCAS. This allows him to prove that he filled out his AMCAS in good faith.

Even if schools notice that the courses were not included in your GPA, I doubt they will care. Whether or not it was a mistake by the AAMC it definitely helps your application and it would be foolish to ruin that advantage.

 

[hardy]

You should also note that you will be asked in secondaries etc. to sign statements indicating that everything you have provided in your application is true to the best of your knowledge, so technically since you know the AMCAS is wrong, you would be committing fraud by signing this. So you probably should call AMCAS and make sure they handled it the way it should have been handled.
Lesson to be learned here -- George Orwell was right -- "Ignorance is Bliss".

Exactly, ignorance is bliss. He can assume that the AAMC does not make such a mistake and intended to correct his "mistake". To the best of his knowledge that is what they did... unless he continues digging and they tell him that it was a mistake, better not call them, after all, the AAMC does not make mistake!

 

[SailCrazy]

Don't call - let it be.

Med schools are looking for 1 source of info: AMCAS. That is why it exists. They *expect* that AMCAS grades & GPA can/will be different than the original transcripts. If they didn't there would be no need for AMCAS! You happened to benefit from AMCAS processing, others suffer. That's just how it goes. Don't feel guilty. Don't worry about it. You're fine.

It is not your job to calculate your own GPA and re-verify AMCAS' work! They are the verification service. They are the final word. You live with it, med school live with it.

And yes, med schools are going to see your original transcripts eventually - just like they are going to see everyone else's. Many people will have GPAs that differ from AMCAS' calculations. Don't apologize for it. That is how the system is supposed to work. If the schools don't want that, they won't use AMCAS!

One story on a realted side note, I got a job out of college where you needed a 3.0 for employment. I was barely a 3.0 when interviewed. Guess what my GPA was on the final transcripts I sent to this employer... yep, < 3.0. I was already hired & working. They never said anything, and I did a great job at that company.

 

[cyclist05]

Thanks for all the responses, guys.

I've thought about it a lot, and think that I will call Monday and try to figure things out. I think if I got accepted somewhere, I would worry constantly that they would suddenly realize the mistake and then kick me out. I just think it's not going to be worth all of the stress in the end.

Man... I just wish they'd given me the 3.23 and I didn't have to stress about this!

 

[gujuDoc]

I think I understand where the discrepancy might be coming from. Remember that most schools use an F as the failure grade, not E.

So AMCAS calculates according to the A, B, C, D, F scale.

I think the fact that you entered it as an E, may be why they didn't take into account that grade. You are only responsible for entering grades as they appear on your transcripts, and if they don't count grades that are not within the 5 letters, I listed above, then that probably will account for the discrepancy and mean that you are not in the wrong.

So even if you sign that everything is right, it won't be a lie. Essentially, you put things down as they appeared on your transcripts and they calculated it based on the standard which was different from your school's personal way of doing it.

By any chance are you at an IVY league, cuz I read somewhere that Harvard uses an E instead of F???

 

[SailCrazy]

you will be asked in secondaries etc. to sign statements indicating that everything you have provided in your application is true to the best of your knowledge, so technically since you know the AMCAS is wrong, you would be committing fraud by signing this.

How can he (or we) saw (or know) that AMCAS is wrong?!? It isn't like he entered it in this way and it simply slipped by when they weren't paying attention. The actually *made a change*. I would certainly hope that the AMCAS processors know the rules better than we do.

There is nothing wrong with assuming that AMCAS made the right call. The "best of your knowledge" on application processing is AMCAS' word, not yours. I would sign that statement without hesitation and confidently answer any questions that followed!

 

[SailCrazy]

In the words of Paul McCartney... Let It Be!

And I don't mean let it be... and then worry. Let it be, and don't stress anymore!

Thanks for all the responses, guys.

I've thought about it a lot, and think that I will call Monday and try to figure things out. I think if I got accepted somewhere, I would worry constantly that they would suddenly realize the mistake and then kick me out. I just think it's not going to be worth all of the stress in the end.

Man... I just wish they'd given me the 3.23 and I didn't have to stress about this!

 

[cyclist05]

I think I understand where the discrepancy might be coming from. Remember that most schools use an F as the failure grade, not E.

So AMCAS calculates according to the A, B, C, D, F scale.

I think the fact that you entered it as an E, may be why they didn't take into account that grade. You are only responsible for entering grades as they appear on your transcripts, and if they don't count grades that are not within the 5 letters, I listed above, then that probably will account for the discrepancy and mean that you are not in the wrong.

So even if you sign that everything is right, it won't be a lie. Essentially, you put things down as they appeared on your transcripts and they calculated it based on the standard which was different from your school's personal way of doing it.

By any chance are you at an IVY league, cuz I read somewhere that Harvard uses an E instead of F???

I had considered this... I actually never got an official transcript for myself, I'm just going off of the grades that are posted on my school's website (OSU). Perhaps my transcripts say an F instead of an E? If so, wouldn't AMCAS have fixed that when they verified it?

 

[SailCrazy]

I had considered this... I actually never got an official transcript for myself, I'm just going off of the grades that are posted on my school's website (OSU). Perhaps my transcripts say an F instead of an E? If so, wouldn't AMCAS have fixed that when they verified it?

Yes, this is an easy and obvious fix that would not elude an AMCAS processor.

Exactly my point, but the way... No matter what hypothetical situation any of us throw out here in the SDN forums, it is hard to argue with the fact that we all pay AMCAS a **** load of money to know what the f- they're doing! Don't question them. Simply move on.

 

[hardy]

If so, wouldn't AMCAS have fixed that when they verified it?

Exactly, that is nothing you have to worry about, it is their job! You did what you were supposed to and your OT grade is listed correctly. Just accept that the AAMC wants it this way, you did what you were supposed to and no school will blame you for that. I really can't understand why you question the AAMC!

 

[ascrimmins]

So I just got my AMCAS application verified and they calculated my GPA to be a lot higher than I had anticipated. When calculating my GPA, they seem to have left out two classes that I received F's in during my freshman year. The spaces where the semester hours and AMCAS grade should be are left blank. My OT grade for both classes is an E (which my university uses instead of an F). I repeated both of these courses later on in college.

I had calculated my GPA to be 3.23 (both bcpm and cumulative), but AMCAS says it's 3.37 bcpm and 3.32 overall.

Has this happened to anyone else??? Aren't they supposed to factor in failing grades? I feel really bad about it. Part of me wants to just pretend like I don't know it's wrong and just take the better GPA, but I think the guilt would kill me!

I guess I will call AMCAS on Monday morning and see what they say about it.

Any acceptance you get will be contingent upon providing final proof - this includes official transcripts from your u-grad institution. Schools WILL notice two F's and they will suspect that you knew. If you were accepted, had that acceptance revoked, and then had to re-apply you would have to explain why. That would not look good. I urge you to call AMCAS and find out what happened. Yes, it may hurt your applciation in the short term. On the other hand, the F's were in your freshman year. It looks as if there would be lots of opportunity for you to say, "Hey look, I had a rough freshman year, but I learned, accepted the consequences, and look how hard i worked the next three years." Good luck. Let us know what you decide to do.

 

[hardy]

Any acceptance you get will be contingent upon providing final proof - this includes official transcripts from your u-grad institution. Schools WILL notice two F's and they will suspect that you knew. If you were accepted, had that acceptance revoked, and then had to re-apply you would have to explain why. That would not look good. I urge you to call AMCAS and find out what happened.

Schools will notice two Es (since that's the grade, not Fs), which they already saw on his AMCAS. They won't see any new information, so why should he be worried at all?

 

[cyclist05]

Any acceptance you get will be contingent upon providing final proof - this includes official transcripts from your u-grad institution. Schools WILL notice two F's and they will suspect that you knew. If you were accepted, had that acceptance revoked, and then had to re-apply you would have to explain why. That would not look good. I urge you to call AMCAS and find out what happened. Yes, it may hurt your applciation in the short term. On the other hand, the F's were in your freshman year. It looks as if there would be lots of opportunity for you to say, "Hey look, I had a rough freshman year, but I learned, accepted the consequences, and look how hard i worked the next three years." Good luck. Let us know what you decide to do.

Both courses are listed on my verified AMCAS with an E next to them for the OT grade. The hours are just not figured into the GPA calculation. Also, there is no AMCAS grade listed. I really need to get my hands on a transcript and see what things look like on it.

 

[TRAUMEDDR]

Goodluck

 

[SailCrazy]

Any acceptance you get will be contingent upon providing final proof

final "proof" of what?!? That an applicant actually submitted OTs to AMCAS and not some forgeries? A copy of the contract where the medical school contracted AMCAS to handle initial screenings of their applicants?

Medical school that use AMCAS agree that AMCAS' decisions on transcript processing are the ones they work with. Again, they expect that there will be some differences. It is easy to come up with horror stories with ugly endings, but let me remind you that we're talking about the difference between a 3.3 and a 3.2, not a 4.0 and a 2.5!

Calm down everyone!

 

[SailCrazy]

Both courses are listed on my verified AMCAS with an E next to them for the OT grade. The hours are just not figured into the GPA calculation. Also, there is no AMCAS grade listed. I really need to get my hands on a transcript and see what things look like on it.

No you don't.
I can't say it any better than hardy... (bold added for my effect)

Schools will notice two Es (since that's the grade, not Fs), which they already saw on his AMCAS. They won't see any new information, so why should he be worried at all?

 

[Law2Doc]

final "proof" of what?!? That an applicant actually submitted OTs to AMCAS and not some forgeries? A copy of the contract where the medical school contracted AMCAS to handle initial screenings of their applicants?

Medical school that use AMCAS agree that AMCAS' decisions on transcript processing are the ones they will live with. Again, they expect that there will be some differences. It is easy to come up with horror stories with ugly endings, but let me remind you that we're talking about the difference between a 3.3 and a 3.2, not a 4.0 and a 2.5!

Calm down everyone!

I think it's likely that the AMCAS verifier was lazy or inadvertent (and overworked with the many thousands of applications he/she processes) and didn't look to the grading key (usually on the back of an official transcript) to see that an E = F at this particular school. You can't be comfortable that when the med school you matriculate to (which only has at most a couple hundred transcripts to peruse) looks at the OT they will make the same mistake. Thus they will see you had courses that didn't figure into your GPA, which, in the best case scenario suggests that you are careless in not noticing this, and in the worst case scenario looks like you are trying to pull a fast one. Does that mean they will do something even if they see the error? Probably not. But could they - given your clear lack of candor (and possible fraud when you signed off on your application's veracity in a secondary)? Sure.
AMCAS makes mistakes, and people are expected to review their application and correct them when they do. Certainly you would be quick to call them if they made a mistake not in your favor.

[As for the prior poster who lied about his GPA in a resume -- bear in mind that this kind of thing is fraud (even if it works out alright in the end), and in particular, lying on job applications often blows up in peoples' faces more than you think -- and can even cost you licensure in some fields where character is at issue (law and law enforcement especially) or even may be used to discredit you if you ever find yourself testifying in court on anything, etc.]

 

[hardy]

I think it's likely that the AMCAS verifier was lazy or inadvertent (and overworked with the many thousands of applications he/she processes) and didn't look to the grading key (usually on the back of an official transcript) to see that an E = F at this particular school. You can't be comfortable that when the med school you matriculate to (which only has at most a couple hundred transcripts to peruse) looks at the OT they will make the same mistake. Thus they will see you had courses that didn't figure into your GPA, which, in the best case scenario suggests that you are careless in not noticing this, and in the worst case scenario looks like you are trying to pull a fast one. Does that mean they will do something even if they see the error? Probably not. But could they - given your clear lack of candor (and possible fraud when you signed off on your application's veracity in a secondary)? Sure.

I have to admit that I don't know but I can't imagine them looking to closely at the final transcript. I imagine that they look at the new grades you received to make sure they are adequate and see whether your degree was issued. Then, maybe, they compare your courses and grades with the OT grades reported on AMCAS. I doubt they even do that. After you are accepted your transcript is such a small part of your complete package that it does not really matter. Your transcript is more a formality to prove that you graduated.
But as I said, this is only the feeling I get from talking to people at the admissions office, I don't really know what is done.

 

[SailCrazy]

[As for the prior poster who lied about his GPA in a resume -- bear in mind that this kind of thing is fraud (even if it works out alright in the end), and in particular, lying on job applications often blows up in peoples' faces more than you think -- and can even cost you licensure in some fields where character is at issue (law and law enforcement especially) or even may be used to discredit you if you ever find yourself testifying in court on anything, etc.]

Are you referring to my story? I'm not taking any undue offense to you accusing me of being a fraud or generally lacking character, but if (as your screen name suggests) you are a lawyer, you surely know that a reasonable understanding of the facts is recommended before throwing out potentially offensive legal terms! I have no legal training, but is that considered slander?

I got a job out of college where you needed a 3.0 for employment. I was barely a 3.0 when interviewed.

I didn't lie at all (or even do anything slightly dishonest.) The initial job posting requested 3.0 & above. I applied, and showed a copy of my current transcript with something like a 3.001!

After working for several months, all new employees were asked to submit a copy of their final transcripts. I did, submitting a transcript with a GPA just under 3.0.

Guess what I did not do... call up the HR department to see if they had effectively reviewed my transcript, were still ok with my employment situation and ask if they wanted to fire me. They did their job. I did mine. No one cared about a .1 GPA issue. I did a great job and that employer was sad to see me leave when I eventually moved on to other things.

P.S. I really have no special interest in the legal definitions of any of the terms that you or I used - so please don't reply with a mini law school lecture!

 

[cyclist05]

I have to admit that I don't know but I can't imagine them looking to closely at the final transcript. I imagine that they look at the new grades you received to make sure they are adequate and see whether your degree was issued. Then, maybe, they compare your courses and grades with the OT grades reported on AMCAS. I doubt they even do that. After you are accepted your transcript is such a small part of your complete package that it does not really matter. Your transcript is more a formality to prove that you graduated.
But as I said, this is only the feeling I get from talking to people at the admissions office, I don't really know what is done.

I actually already graduated in June and waited for my final grades before sending my transcripts to AMCAS. Will schools still want my official transcripts?

 

[SailCrazy]

I think it's likely that the AMCAS verifier ... didn't look to the grading key (usually on the back of an official transcript) to see that an E = F at this particular school.

Do you really believe that the AMCAS verifiers need to look at a key to determine that E = F at any school?!? What are they doing, using trained monkeys?

You can't be comfortable that when the med school you matriculate to (which only has at most a couple hundred transcripts to peruse) looks at the OT they will make the same mistake.

That is the *exact* point that hardy and I are making. The "E" is on the transcript AND ON AMCAS. Med schools will see it, and if he is admitted they are not going to be surprised (or care) when it shows up on the OTs he sends to them! (And they are used to seeing differing GPAs already!)

 

[SailCrazy]

I actually already graduated in June and waited for my final grades before sending my transcripts to AMCAS. Will schools still want my official transcripts?

My understanding is yes, they will.

 

[SailCrazy]

Thus they will see you had courses that didn't figure into your GPA, which, in the best case scenario suggests that you are careless in not noticing this, and in the worst case scenario looks like you are trying to pull a fast one. .... AMCAS makes mistakes, and people are expected to review their application and correct them when they do. Certainly you would be quick to call them if they made a mistake not in your favor.

Not everyone is as anal as us folks here on SDN! Believe it or not, many people *gasp* simply enter their grades into AMCAS without calculating their GPA down to the ten-thousandth place, look at what AMCAS calculated, and then use that number. End of story...
They don't give it a second thought, and (as long as they have another outlet for any pent-up desire to use legal terms ) they justifiably never even worry about being accused of fraud.

 

[beanbean]

I would leave your AMCAS alone. You entered the grades correctly. I never really checked to see if my AMCAS gpa was correct after it was verified and I'm sure there are others who don't either. If this is really going to stress you out, then give them a call, but if you are offered an admission I highly doubt any of this will matter. You never tried to hide the grades.

During interviews you willl probably be asked about the 'E' grades. Some people won't know what they mean and you will need to explain; others will recognize them as equivalent to an F and want the story behind them.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

It sounds like a lot of the people on this board are in the wrong profession: lots of lawyers arguing technicalities out there

Going by the book, the OP has met all his responisibilities as far as reporting his grades, so he's off the hook. And I realize that as pre-meds we're out to get as many advantages as possible. But I applaud the fact that the OP is struggling with this dilemma; it shows a considerable amount of character.

However, if I were an adcom, I'd much rather take the applicant who is more concerned with going above and beyond his obligations to ensure fairness than someone who is concerned with .14 on his GPA. Of course, this is coming from someone who also has a slightly below average GPA

Do whatever you think is right, dude. Good luck.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

It sounds like a lot of the people on this board are in the wrong profession: lots of lawyers arguing technicalities out there

Going by the book, the OP has met all his responisibilities as far as reporting his grades, so he's off the hook. And I realize that as pre-meds we're out to get as many advantages as possible. But I applaud the fact that the OP is struggling with this dilemma; it shows a considerable amount of character.

However, if I were an adcom, I'd much rather take the applicant who is more concerned with going above and beyond his obligations to ensure fairness than someone who is concerned with .14 on his GPA. Of course, this is coming from someone who also has a slightly below average GPA

Do whatever you think is right, dude. Good luck.

 

[gujuDoc]

It sounds like a lot of the people on this board are in the wrong profession: lots of lawyers arguing technicalities out there

Going by the book, the OP has met all his responisibilities as far as reporting his grades, so he's off the hook. And I realize that as pre-meds we're out to get as many advantages as possible. But I applaud the fact that the OP is struggling with this dilemma; it shows a considerable amount of character.

However, if I were an adcom, I'd much rather take the applicant who is more concerned with going above and beyond his obligations to ensure fairness than someone who is concerned with .14 on his GPA. Of course, this is coming from someone who also has a slightly below average GPA

Do whatever you think is right, dude. Good luck.

Yes, but the OP already did his part and AMCAS would have caught it, if a mistake was made. So I don't think it matters now.

 

[SailCrazy]

However, if I were an adcom, I'd much rather take the applicant who is more concerned with going above and beyond his obligations to ensure fairness than someone who is concerned with .14 on his GPA. Of course, this is coming from someone who also has a slightly below average GPA

I agree that is an admirable concept, but unless the OP lists "AMCAS Honesty - above and beyond the call of duty" in a secondary essay somewhere, no medschool will ever know what happened!

But I applaud the fact that the OP is struggling with this dilemma; it shows a considerable amount of character.

... or paranoia!

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

I doubt AMCAS is totally infallible. A failing grade is a failing grade, no matter if it's an E or an F, and if I'm not mistaken, AMCAS counts all grades in the GPA calculation, so I'm guessing it's a mistake. But I'm guessing that the OP isn't the first person from that school to get an E, so there has to be some sort of precedent for this. On the AAMC website somewhere there's a grade conversion chart, or he could just call the AAMC and ask a general "what happens to Es?" question to find out if it's a mistake. That might shed some light on the situation.

On another note, if I EVER hear my doctor use "Ignorance is bliss" as a justification, I'm bookin it out the door

 

[xSTALLiONx]

I agree with Law2Doc. I think you'd probably be better off in the long run if you called and sorted it out. You have to ask yourself what's worse, the difference between a 3.23 and a 3.37 or getting caught lying on your AMCAS? The former can be overcome if you're a good enough candidate. The latter speaks to your integrity as a person and if you lose that it is immensely more difficult to repair.

he wasn't lying on his AMCAS.. AMCAS screwed up.. take it and run..
WholeLottaGame7 is either a "rules are rules" type person or a gunner.. either way.. bad..

 

[Law2Doc]

he wasn't lying on his AMCAS.. AMCAS screwed up.. take it and run..
WholeLottaGame7 is either a "rules are rules" type person or a gunner.. either way.. bad..

You are responsible for what is in your application. AMCAS serves a verification function and they usually do it well, but if they do not do it accurately, it is still your responsibility to fix it. You don't get to just throw up your hands and say "I didn't do it" or "I already did my part" -- it is YOUR application, not AMCAS' application. No where in the AMCAS instructions does it say that you can or must rely on anything done by AMCAS even if you know it is in error. Just like if you submit a tax return that is wrong -- sure you might have had an accountant prepare it -- you gave him all your receipts and it was his job to put together the return correctly from the info you gave him -- but ultimately the responsibility is always going to be yours for it to be correct. (And similar to signing off on a tax return, when you sign your secondary, you are frequently indicating that your application is true and correct). You don't get the benefit of AMCAS' "screw up" any more than you should be penalized if they screwed up the other way round.

 

[SailCrazy]

You are responsible for what is in your application. ... Just like if you submit a tax return that is wrong -- sure you might have had an accountant prepare it -- you gave him all your receipts and it was his job to put together the return correctly from the info you gave him -- but ultimately the responsibility is always going to be yours for it to be correct. (And similar to signing off on a tax return, when you sign your secondary, you are frequently indicating that your application is true and correct).

Interesting analogy, except that the government doesn't tell you that there is only 1 accountant in the country who can prepare your returns, that you absolutely do not have the option of doing them yourself, and the account has the final say in any decisions made concerning your return.

The concept is remotely similar, but there is no practical relevance to the two situations.

You are responsible for what is in your application. AMCAS serves a verification function and they usually do it well, but if they do not do it accurately, it is still your responsibility to fix it.

I'm too lazy to search, but I think if you would tell everyone where (in the official AMCAS instructions) it outlines this responsiblity, that would bring a quick end to this discussion.

If the official instructions say that you should develop and extensive familiarity with the AMCAS rules, review your own applicaiton after verification, and call AMCAS to discuss any potential errors, then yes, the OP should call.

If the official instructions mention nothing of the sort, then all of this talk about a "responsibility" to review your application after AMCAS processing is really nothing more than another example of SDN members asserting with authority the wrong answer to a question they really know little to nothing about. (Not something the I've ever done, of course!)

If that is the case the OP should simply leave the situation as-is.

 

[SailCrazy]

If the official instructions mention nothing of the sort, then all of this talk about a "responsibility" to review your application after AMCAS processing is really nothing more than another example of SDN members asserting with authority the wrong answer to a question they really know little to nothing about. (Not something the I've ever done, of course!)

And, of course, if the instructions do say to re-verify your own app, then all of us saying "leave it alone" are just blowing hot air!

 

[Law2Doc]

And, of course, if the instructions do say to re-verify your own app, then all of us saying "leave it alone" are just blowing hot air!

I looked quickly (I'm lazy too) over the 2005 instructions (they don't let me into the 2006), and of course it leaves everything pretty murky. It is clear that by submitting your primary you have signed an Application Certification, which is legally binding (according to AMCAS) indicating that "I have read, understand and agree to comply with the AMCAS Instructions including the provisions which note that I am responsible for monitoring and ensuring the progress of my application. I certify that the information in this application is current, complete and accurate to the best of my knowledge". Whether that means you are responsible for "monitoring" the the application in total or just its progress is probably debatable -- you know my view. The instructions certainly do provide procedures for how you can seek changes to the AMCAS verifications, so obviously AMCAS errors are not unforseen by AMCAS. But it certainly would have been a nice end to this debate if AMCAS instructions explicitly said something to the effect that "you must contact AMCAS immediately if you are aware of any inaccuracy in your application" -- it doesn't.
At any rate I think the OP has all the possible viewpoints on this issue, and can proceed accordingly.

 

[SpiritiualDuck]

Leave it alone. Be happy. They screw enough of us.

And for the advice to contact them, well don't trust these people. The worse they can make you look, the better for them

Also, no school will know if it calculated or not because they won't do the math. They have 5,000 applicants. If you get an interview they'll see the bottom line numbers and they'll look at your MCAT. They just don't have the time nor the resources to recalculate grades that should have been tone correctly by AMCAS.

So, drop it.

 

[WholeLottaGame7]

First of all, I am amused at the implication that me and my 3.3 BCPM GPA could possibly be a "gunner" And since I already expressed the opinion that the OP has fulfilled his responsibilities according to the rules, clearly I'm not a "rules are rules" person.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know all the rules to the "t." Since I don't know the potential consequences, if any, I personally would at least want to find out if an error has been made. Law2Doc made a good point in that very few people would let AMCAS forget to include 2 As on their GPA.

Unfortunately, this is what the application process has turned us all into, trying to take any available advantage. You can say I'm trying to "sabotage" the OP by getting them to call AMCAS and fix the GPA, whatever. That's the problem here, you can't know anyone's motives unless you know them as a person. Everyone else could just as easily be sitting at their computers grinning and twiddling their thumbs knowing that someone's submitting an incorrect app, I dunno. That's why I suggest that the OP do whatever they think is right.

 

[ascrimmins]

I think it's likely that the AMCAS verifier was lazy or inadvertent (and overworked with the many thousands of applications he/she processes) and didn't look to the grading key (usually on the back of an official transcript) to see that an E = F at this particular school. You can't be comfortable that when the med school you matriculate to (which only has at most a couple hundred transcripts to peruse) looks at the OT they will make the same mistake. Thus they will see you had courses that didn't figure into your GPA, which, in the best case scenario suggests that you are careless in not noticing this, and in the worst case scenario looks like you are trying to pull a fast one. Does that mean they will do something even if they see the error? Probably not. But could they - given your clear lack of candor (and possible fraud when you signed off on your application's veracity in a secondary)? Sure.
AMCAS makes mistakes, and people are expected to review their application and correct them when they do. Certainly you would be quick to call them if they made a mistake not in your favor.

[As for the prior poster who lied about his GPA in a resume -- bear in mind that this kind of thing is fraud (even if it works out alright in the end), and in particular, lying on job applications often blows up in peoples' faces more than you think -- and can even cost you licensure in some fields where character is at issue (law and law enforcement especially) or even may be used to discredit you if you ever find yourself testifying in court on anything, etc.]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Yay Law2Doc

 

[SailCrazy]

Thank you, thank you, thank you. Yay Law2Doc

HEY! I pointed out the logical flaws and factual inadequacies of that post - where is my cheering section?!?!
I suppose I'll just have to do it myself!

Sailcrazy: your arguments are well-conceived and succinct. I agree with your thoughts, and appreciate your participation. Did I mention that you're also quite handsome, funny, and an all-around great time? Way to go!

 

[topdogg82]

dude, as long as you are SURE that you put your stuff in correctly, DO NOT CALL! It becomes their fault, and its not your job to go over their mistakes, so if they do screw up, just take the goodies and run man