Is Vet School Debt manageable? Does Specializing in the long run help?

[Riscatto]

I know vet school is expensive and the debt is high compared to starting salaries. I currently live in AZ and we will eventually have 2 vet schools, but I have been looking at Florida and Wisconsin. Florida is roughly 115,000 and Wisconsin is roughly $80,000+-$100,000+.

My question, is it better to go to a school that is more affordable and closer to the $100,000 range?
Does it make paying off loans in the future more affordable?

Other question is does specializing help with paying off loans once you finish? I enjoy working with equine/large animals more than I do domestic or small exotics. I like the idea of sports and rehabilitation medicine and also surgery, so in other words double boarded. Is that something that would work or are they to different? I understand it would take a long time, but I like working and being busy.

I apologize if this seems like generic questions or repetitive. I've wanted to be a vet since I was 8 and I love medicine. Unfortunate as of recently my parents have shown distaste in going to vet school and don't want me to go. There pushing me towards the criminal justice field. So i'm trying to get all the answers to make a decision.

I guess also has anyone had trouble with no support from family or friends?

All help appreciated

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[hazelmoo]

Not sure about the perks of specializing, but I can help with this part.. Family and friends may try to dissuade you from working in the veterinary field because it's stressful, the money isn't great, and the debt from school is crazy. But, with that being said, it's important to not let your parents (or anyone really) tell you what is "best for you" when it comes to careers because only YOU know what will make you truly happiest.
My mom thinks vets are only "in it for the money" and she doesn't believe in vaccinating your pets OR humanely euthanizing (she thinks everything should die "naturally"). So, she has tried to get me from doing vetmed my whole life. Unluckily for her, I was born wanting to be a vet and there has been nothing she can do to keep me from it.. Anyways, it can be hard to persevere without the support of your family, but they will eventually get over it. But will you be able to get over being stuck in a career you aren't passionate about?

PS. UF tuition is going to be closer to 200k for OOS applicants. Not sure about Wisconsin

 

[Riscatto]

Thanks for that, it was helpful.

I'm looking at Florida and hopefully moving to gain the residency status and then work get my Bachelors there. Arizona doesn't have much in terms of Animal science classes.

 

[MassDVMMPH]

The vet school at UF has recently started a big veterinary scholarship push. By the time you get into vet school there, that could help you a great deal, assuming it is successful.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

I know vet school is expensive and the debt is high compared to starting salaries. I currently live in AZ and we will eventually have 2 vet schools, but I have been looking at Florida and Wisconsin. Florida is roughly 115,000 and Wisconsin is roughly $80,000+-$100,000+.

My question, is it better to go to a school that is more affordable and closer to the $100,000 range?
Does it make paying off loans in the future more affordable?

Other question is does specializing help with paying off loans once you finish? I enjoy working with equine/large animals more than I do domestic or small exotics. I like the idea of sports and rehabilitation medicine and also surgery, so in other words double boarded. Is that something that would work or are they to different? I understand it would take a long time, but I like working and being busy.

I apologize if this seems like generic questions or repetitive. I've wanted to be a vet since I was 8 and I love medicine. Unfortunate as of recently my parents have shown distaste in going to vet school and don't want me to go. There pushing me towards the criminal justice field. So i'm trying to get all the answers to make a decision.

I guess also has anyone had trouble with no support from family or friends?

All help appreciated

Specializing typically will not net you a significantly higher salary, but do your research. You will have to complete a residency for whatever specialty you choose (assuming you get a residency). You will be paid ~$30k (more or less) for the duration of your residency (it varies among schools and specialties). You also have to take into account the job market for your particular specialty. You can have a ton of letters after your name, but that doesn't mean much if you can't find a job where you will be using those letters.

I believe @shortnsweet is doing an equine residency now, so she can probably share more on the job market for equine specialists.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

My question, is it better to go to a school that is more affordable and closer to the $100,000 range?
Does it make paying off loans in the future more affordable?

YES. YES YES YES.

In terms of specializing, it also depends on which specialty. Certain areas will net you more and can make up for the lost income (and time, and stress) during residency. Others, not so much, or the bump would be negligible.

 

[cloverbug]

Thanks for that, it was helpful.

I'm looking at Florida and hopefully moving to gain the residency status and then work get my Bachelors there. Arizona doesn't have much in terms of Animal science classes.

I went to University of Arizona for my undergrad and they have a major that's specifically veterinary science. I got all of my pre-reqs for pretty much every vet school done there. They also have several animal science majors (I didn't look into them) and have one of the oldest agricultural colleges in the state and I think the country so lots of alumni money to support it. Having an instate school to go to definitely helps with applying and debt cost for vet school though. You have to consider debt for instate for undergrad and then maybe applying to vet school out of state or out of state undergrad tuition and instate vet school tuition, though the latter will end up being more debt in the end. It really depends on your preferences and your life. I got pretty much a full ride in grants to U of A so I had no undergrad debt, which was nice and if you have good grades U of A does a lot of scholarships and grants. Most of the people I knew got some kind of financial help. Just something to think about!

 

[Starry-chan]

Unfortunate as of recently my parents have shown distaste in going to vet school and don't want me to go. There pushing me towards the criminal justice field. So i'm trying to get all the answers to make a decision.

Ugh, that sucks that they're trying to decide your life for you.

You need supportive friends. I'm sure you could make some here

 

[hazelmoo]

Thanks for that, it was helpful.

I'm looking at Florida and hopefully moving to gain the residency status and then work get my Bachelors there. Arizona doesn't have much in terms of Animal science classes.

I would be sure to call someone about residency! I'm from FL, and as far as I know, you can't get residency if you are in school. They say that if "you live in FL for the sole purpose of attending college" you don't qualify for residency, even if you have lived there more than 2 years. So, if that's the path you wanted, I THINK you would have to move there and work 2 years before you could attend school as an in state resident.

 

[Caiter92]

Everyone has covered everything pretty well, but I just wanted to say that if you're parents are wanting you to go in to law, that field has an even worse job outlook than Vetmed.

I know a recent grad who has never even practiced because they couldn't find any firms taking associates near where they were moving when they graduated (and couldn't move somewhere else because that's where their partner had recieved an awesome job at). Now they work in a non profit doing consulting work and are trapped with a ton of debt making nearly minimum wage. So if they're worried about your income to debt ratio as a vet, law isn't guaranteed to be any better.

Good luck!

 

[Starry-chan]

I know a recent grad who has never even practiced because they couldn't find any firms taking associates near where they were moving when they graduated (and couldn't move somewhere else because that's where their partner had recieved an awesome job at). Now they work in a non profit doing consulting work and are trapped with a ton of debt making nearly minimum wage. So if they're worried about your income to debt ratio as a vet, law isn't guaranteed to be any better.

I've heard similar stories. I had a friend that said he knew a guy who was working at Starbucks, despite having graduated from law school.

 

[hazelmoo]

I've heard similar stories. I had a friend that said he knew a guy who was working at Starbucks, despite having graduated from law school.

That's awful however, you can make some surprisingly good money working at Starbucks, and it's pretty easy to move up the ladder I hear

 

[Starry-chan]

That's awful however, you can make some surprisingly good money working at Starbucks, and it's pretty easy to move up the ladder I hear

That I did not know =o

Maybe that guy is a manager or something now. Beats minimum wage at least.

 

[hazelmoo]

That I did not know =o

Maybe that guy is a manager or something now. Beats minimum wage at least.

The manager at the Starbucks I used to work next to was a college dropout and made at least 60k (I don't know exact amount but she made more than my manager who made that much)... And that was in a town with an extremely low cost of living. So not too shabby!!

 

[Starry-chan]

Whoa! 60k/year and s/he gets to smell yummy coffee all day? Win!

 

[hazelmoo]

Whoa! 60k/year and s/he gets to smell yummy coffee all day? Win!

Yes! My manager was always bitter because I worked at a sandwich place he was the district manager so he had a lot more work to do, and didn't make as much as the general manager next door lol

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Everyone has covered everything pretty well, but I just wanted to say that if you're parents are wanting you to go in to law, that field has an even worse job outlook than Vetmed.

I know a recent grad who has never even practiced because they couldn't find any firms taking associates near where they were moving when they graduated (and couldn't move somewhere else because that's where their partner had recieved an awesome job at). Now they work in a non profit doing consulting work and are trapped with a ton of debt making nearly minimum wage. So if they're worried about your income to debt ratio as a vet, law isn't guaranteed to be any better.

Good luck!

I have a classmate who practiced law for 6 years and switched to vet med.

Overall, vet med is better

 

[Starry-chan]

Yes! My manager was always bitter because I worked at a sandwich place he was the district manager so he had a lot more work to do, and didn't make as much as the general manager next door lol

Blah. Life is too short to spend it comparing yourself to somebody else.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

Go where it is cheapest -- it will make a huge difference in the rest of your life. You could save 25-30 % or more by choosing a cheaper school (almost everyone's cheaper than Arizona). This website by the VIN Foundation has some great information on vet school costs in the US and Caribbean (http://iwanttobeaveterinarian.com/default.aspx?pid=5585&catId=50083&id=4045163) as well as a loan repayment simulator and tools to help you gauge how much of an impact paying back those loans will be.

 

[shortnsweet]

I believe @shortnsweet is doing an equine residency now, so she can probably share more on the job market for equine specialists.

I'm doing equine medicine and the job prospects are slim. I'm not specializing so I can make more money. I'm specializing because I love medicine and would eventually like to work at a University.

The OP wants surgery and/or sports med. Most equine surgery residents have to do 2-3 internships before their residency, then complete a 3 year residency (If they can get one). Sports med is such a new discipline, that there are only a few programs in the country offering it, so I don't know much about it. Typically the surgeons do earn more after specializing though. It's more a matter of landing a job.

 

[Riscatto]

Thanks for the info. It's good to know about the job market for equine. When I was at tech school, I learned that I far more enjoy working with equine and large animal. I enjoy a challenge and seeing something new each day which is why I preferred specializing, not that you don't see exciting things in general practice, I just feel it gets repetitive after a while.

I have yet to decide on anything and plus I'm only 21, so i'm trying to get all the answers before I make any decisions especially with the debt load.

 

[LetItSnow]

Thanks for the info. It's good to know about the job market for equine. When I was at tech school, I learned that I far more enjoy working with equine and large animal. I enjoy a challenge and seeing something new each day which is why I preferred specializing, not that you don't see exciting things in general practice, I just feel it gets repetitive after a while.

I have yet to decide on anything and plus I'm only 21, so i'm trying to get all the answers before I make any decisions especially with the debt load.

Definitely not trying to discourage you, but I don't think specializing is the way to go if you want <variety>. They see a more narrow focus than anyone....

 

[Starry-chan]

Definitely not trying to discourage you, but I don't think specializing is the way to go if you want <variety>. They see a more narrow focus than anyone....

Didn't realize this previously but after thinking about it, it makes sense. A GP could potentially see anything under the sun, they're just gonna refer those things that they aren't comfortable treating themselves. And a specialist, as far as their field is concerned, would treat a wider array of conditions than a GP, but they'd see far fewer conditions overall. That right?

 

[Riscatto]

That makes sense. I worked in GP for about a year before I was let go and I found it really boring. All I ever saw was your common ear infections, valley fever, routine surgeries, ect. All the interesting things occurred when I wasn't there.

 

[DVMDream]

That makes sense. I worked in GP for about a year before I was let go and I found it really boring. All I ever saw was your common ear infections, valley fever, routine surgeries, ect. All the interesting things occurred when I wasn't there.

Valley fever falls into the "interesting" category. It might seem common in your area and seem routine but it really isn't. The number of symptoms it can cause is quite incredible too. I've seen everything from a cat with draining tracts on its back that ended up being valley fever (valley fever is rare in cats). To a dog that would regularly have seizures and fevers high enough they wouldn't register on a thermometer. Not a boring, routine disease.

 

[dyachei]

That makes sense. I worked in GP for about a year before I was let go and I found it really boring. All I ever saw was your common ear infections, valley fever, routine surgeries, ect. All the interesting things occurred when I wasn't there.

in the last month I have seen a number of ear infections and skin infections. I have also seen a tail avulsion in a cat, a cat with over 6 lbs of ascites (fluid in the abdomen), toxicities, a dog attacked by a squirrel, a variety of metabolic diseases, UTIs, and well pet visits among other things. It keeps me on my toes.

 

[Starry-chan]

I think one of you guys said that GP is aprox 60-70% boring with the rest being interesting or at least more unique stuff?

 

[Minnerbelle]

I've been euthanizing everything that comes my way the past few days So many awful emergencies. Seriously? Three splenic tumors/hemoabdomens. 9 lb cat where at least 3 lb was abdominal effusion. Likely cervical FCE with nonambulatory tetraparesis. On top of all the usual euthanasias.

I do have to agree that I do get a good mix of routine and non routine things that keep me on my toes. I've thought a lot about specializing recently, but I can't bear the thought of missing out on all the other things I would stop seeing if I pick one specialty.

 

[dyachei]

I think one of you guys said that GP is aprox 60-70% boring with the rest being interesting or at least more unique stuff?

that's about right.

 

[Starry-chan]

that's about right.

Woo-hoo! Starry is learning ^_^

 

[missdarjeeling]

Some of it might just be luck of the draw, but I'd say my experience in GP so far has been 50/50 routine and odd things. Like in emergency, there seem to be "theme nights" where nearly every patient will be coming in with the same problem, but there's still a pretty wide variety of stuff overall. Some days we're praying for more exam/vaccines visits because of all the crazy sick visits. Just in the last 2-3 months, I've seen pyometra, osteosarc, FB, splenic masses, a dog with a piece of buck shot that was migrating into the spinal cord near one of the cervical vertebrae, mega-esophagus, phantom limb pain from a prior amputation, multiple toe amputation (dog keeps developing tumors on its toes), osteomyelitis, cat with chronic upper respiratory congestion that won't respond to anything at all and is still bad even after being flushed/scoped under anesthesia, two (dead) dogs found shot, a severe clotting disorder found on a dog that had just come in as a tech appointment to boost its canine influenza vaccine, a snake bite with really awful edema, multiple dog fights including a puppy with insane wounds (and a WBC count of 25,000 after two weeks of antibiotics), worst case of happy tail ever necessitating an amputation, and a cat that presented with a weird, obviously bulging eye that ended up having a tumor in its head.

I thought GP would be a little more "boring" but in terms of variety in the cases, it's about on par with emergency if not more diverse, IME. Emergency has the added adrenaline rush that comes with dealing with a lot of critically ill patients and codes, but hemoab after hemoab and FB after FB and so on got repetitive, too. And the schedule of surgeries for our surgery specialty service was a lot more repetitive and boring than either GP or emergency, IMO. Anywhere from 3-5 TPLOs per day plus maybe a hemilaminectomy or a soft tissue surgery that'd usually be some kind of mass removal. The more interesting surgery cases usually came in through emergency at night, and the boarded surgeons rarely saw them. It probably also varies a lot from specialty to specialty and workplace to workplace. The ophthalmologist's regular schedule was pretty repetitive, but he also got called out to the zoo sometimes and did a lot of neat things like ophthalmic surgery on a snake. And the IM service seemed to see a wider range of train wrecks. I feel like although the specialists sometimes saw really bizarre, unique cases, those were definitely not representative of the majority of their workload and that GP doctors may see a wider range of issues on a more regular basis.

Anyway, I've come to expect a certain level of monotony and repetition in every job. It's really not the end of the world. Variety is nice to keep you from getting bored, but repetition has its benefits, too.

 

[WildZoo]

The more time I spend working as a tech the more I realize that GP really isn't as "boring" as I used to think. Or maybe I'm just having a good day because I got to see a kitten and a puppy and both were healthy and adorable

It's funny. Zoo is still my dream but I think I'm realizing I could be happy in GP if that's where I ended up. Even just seeing cats and dogs I'm not going crazy (though obviously being a tech is way different than being a vet). Though I think I would want to see exotics.

 

[Riscatto]

I guess it was the clinic I worked in that put me off of GP. I have always wanted to work with Zoo animals. My goal was to be a vet for Disney's Animal Kingdom. Since I found out in order to be boarded in Zoological medicine you need to be an author in a journal, I felt I needed to find another outlet. I am not very good at writing nor have I ever cared for research.

 

[LetItSnow]

I guess it was the clinic I worked in that put me off of GP. I have always wanted to work with Zoo animals. My goal was to be a vet for Disney's Animal Kingdom. Since I found out in order to be boarded in Zoological medicine you need to be an author in a journal, I felt I needed to find another outlet. I am not very good at writing nor have I ever cared for research.

Nothing wrong with not wanting to do GP! My only comment was on the "I want to specialize because I like variety" angle .... specialization is kinda the antithesis of specialization.

Lots of people want to work in zoo medicine, and usually what happens here on SDN is someone shows up, says they want to do zoo med, and they get hounded by everyone saying "you know there are no jobs, right? and that you have to do a billion years of additional training for peanuts, right?" and they get discouraged. On the one hand ... it's all true and people should go in with their eyes open. I absolutely agree. People should know that's one of those 'long shot' careers and the odds are good it won't work out. On the other hand ....... there are plenty of careers like that, and people who are dedicated and work hard enough and network like crazy and make opportunities happen eventually can have an awesome success story. Someone has to be an astronaut, after all, and somebody has to be a zoo vet. So I don't really like how heavy-handed the discouragement gets on SDN for careers like that. As long as you understand it's a small niche field that a lot of people want to be in that doesn't pay well and might require a lot of minimally paid scut work to get there .... more power to you. Just make sure you have a backup plan.

 

[twelvetigers]

specialization is kinda the antithesis of specialization.

wat

 

[dyachei]

wat

old man meant variety. he's just old and can't remember words

 

[shortnsweet]

I guess it was the clinic I worked in that put me off of GP. I have always wanted to work with Zoo animals. My goal was to be a vet for Disney's Animal Kingdom. Since I found out in order to be boarded in Zoological medicine you need to be an author in a journal, I felt I needed to find another outlet. I am not very good at writing nor have I ever cared for research.

Doesn't have to be research, at least that's how it is for ACVIM. They would prefer it, but I think a published Case Report is also acceptable.

 

[Riscatto]

For zoo med it was at least 4 case reports and one research I believe, or at least the last time I checked.

Out of curiosity are there certain specialties or practices that have a better job outlook than others, because from what I've read there are little jobs for certain areas for oncoming vets.

 

[LyraGardenia]

Valley fever falls into the "interesting" category. It might seem common in your area and seem routine but it really isn't. The number of symptoms it can cause is quite incredible too. I've seen everything from a cat with draining tracts on its back that ended up being valley fever (valley fever is rare in cats). To a dog that would regularly have seizures and fevers high enough they wouldn't register on a thermometer. Not a boring, routine disease.

I live in Missouri and I've never even heard of valley fever.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I live in Missouri and I've never even heard of valley fever.

Never had it in my DDX ever either

 

[DVMDream]

I live in Missouri and I've never even heard of valley fever.

It is mostly in the southwest US... Arizona and California and some in New Mexico/Texas/Colorado. When I was working as a tech in Arizona, we saw it quite frequently. We actually had a full drawer of fluconazole because of it... and we would even run out sometimes.

 

[CalliopeDVM]

I live in Missouri and I've never even heard of valley fever.

There's a lot of regional diagnoses, and so when dealing with pets that travel (or for vets that move), there are a lot of unknown DDx that have to join the list. They don't have blastomycosis there, but we don't have Valley Fever here. I hadn't heard of Valley Fever until I checked with some vets on VIN regarding a patient that came back from Arizona very sick (as it turns out, she had mycobacterium, not Valley Fever)......but it was mostly vets who worked there really knew about it. And I had a friend who worked in the Caribbean who saw multiple cases of Ehrlichia every week, but I haven't seen one in my entire career.

 

[twelvetigers]

The vet here made a diagnosis of valley fever when some other vets had missed the significance of travel in the dog's history. Usually we see histo in these parts. And cytauxzoon is certainly a very real thing here too.

 

[DVMDream]

This is why asking about travel history is important, AZ has what we refer to as "snowbirds" basically all of the people who live up north invade the state during the winter (and do not know how to drive). And they often bring their pets with. So even if you don't live in an endemic area, you can still (probably very rarely) see a case of Valley Fever.

There are definitely regional things, so in AZ I saw many cases of Valley Fever and Ehrlichia but AZ doesn't have fleas. I can count the number of animals I saw with fleas when I worked as a tech in AZ on one hand, and those animals came to AZ from California just a couple days prior, so they brought the fleas with them.

 

[WildZoo]

This is why asking about travel history is important, AZ has what we refer to as "snowbirds" basically all of the people who live up north invade the state during the winter (and do not know how to drive). And they often bring their pets with. So even if you don't live in an endemic area, you can still (probably very rarely) see a case of Valley Fever.

There are definitely regional things, so in AZ I saw many cases of Valley Fever and Ehrlichia but AZ doesn't have fleas. I can count the number of animals I saw with fleas when I worked as a tech in AZ on one hand, and those animals came to AZ from California just a couple days prior, so they brought the fleas with them.

Meanwhile in Florida...

 

[hazelmoo]

So... Many... Fleas....

 

[WildZoo]

So... Many... Fleas....

Mosquitos too, and people who are more consistent in skipping hw prevention than in giving it. Parasites everywhere!

 

[hazelmoo]

Mosquitos too, and people who are more consistent in skipping hw prevention than in giving it. Parasites everywhere!

I know, it's so awful!! I saw more heart worms under the microscope in 3 months in FL than I have seen in 2 years in TX. So sad!

 

[Starry-chan]

I could not live in Florida. I'd rather live somewhere where I freeze my butt off lol

 

[WildZoo]

I wish I didn't live in Florida. But at least it's finally nice outside