It's time to boycott Michael Ho's course

[BuzzPhreed]

The shameless shilling of this course is getting annoying. I didn't take the course. I passed the boards on my first try. Most of you will too. Some of you need to practice, yes, but you don't need to take this course.

Let me give you a 30-second -- and free -- set of tips:

1) Talk about a tough or unusual case you did that day out loud to yourself on the way home. Think about what you might have done differently. Think about what you might have done if something had gone wrong. Do this every time. If nothing else, this will make you a better doctor. If you're not sure, ask someone smarter and more experienced than you what they would've done.

2) Print out and know in gory detail all of the ASA practice guidelines. Read all of them. Twice. Three times. Commit them to memory. This is what you will fall back on if you get stuck in a scenario. This advice is gold and, without potentially being viewed as corrupting the test and getting myself in trouble with specifics, my rattling off perfectly one of the practice guidelines with regards to a particular complication in a scenario is probably what saved me from failing my first room.

3) There is probably at least one board reviewer close by to you, if not in your own program (mine had 3). Get to know them. Practice with them. They will give you pointers about what to say and what not to say. Keep it simple. "Yes" and "No" are perfectly acceptable answers.

4) If English is not your first or strongest language, figure that out now and get better at it. Don't speak your native tongue at home with your spouse and children. Don't watch TV programs in your native language. Practice your English. Ask people to help you with your pronunciation. If you don't understand a word or a phrase that someone says, don't be embarrassed to ask them to explain it to you or what they mean. There's no shame in that.

5) If you're not sure, say so. There's nothing worse than saying you're sure, not being sure, and being wrong in that scenario. These people are not just seeing you. They're seeing everyone else too. They are very smart. They are also seeing your body language and how bad of a liar you are. I said I wasn't sure when I wasn't, we moved on, and guess what? I passed. First time.

Don't waste your money on these courses. Read, practice, and do the things above. And don't give any more money to Ho. He's already made enough on your fear. If you want to pay him, tell him you expect a full refund if you don't pass. If he won't offer you that, don't take his course.

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[Hockeyguy]

I agree it's a waste of time.

 

[Femtochemistry]

I'm glad I didn't buy into the whole "you have to do XYZ oral board prep course." In the end of the day, it comes down to practice, practice, practice...

 

[BuzzPhreed]

Yeah, practice and some of you would probably benefit from propanolol 20mg and Xanax 0.25 mg about a half hour before the test.

 

[Yo GabbaPentin]

I benefited from 8 shots of tequila and a Sam's Club tube of KY to prepare for the oncoming freight train heading for my rear... It still hurt like a b!tch, but I passed on one try without paying the "Ho."

 

[Mman]

While I think a boycott is a bit absurd, I find it amusing that people would pay for such a course. Aren't people in residency programs? Doesn't your residency program give mock orals? Don't you have some actual examiners at your program?

Oral exams are easy. Know the science and then be able to calmly explain your rationale for decisions while the examiners make the patient die regardless of what you do. The examiners aren't trying to fail you, they are trying to get you to pass.

 

[ryanjmy]

I agree attending a corse is overkill but i think you need some review material to do well on the exam. The exam is designed so that it hits just about every major area of anesthesia. There are 2 main stems and 6 grab bags. You will likely get a cardiac, peds, nuero, regional, ob, and pain stem. Chances are you'll be weak in a couple of those areas and need review.

The most important thing is practicing with someone that is capable of challenging your answers.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

I'm just waiting for him (or one of his minions) to show-up on THIS thread and start shilling... That would be brazen. And stupid.

 

[HollywdAnesth]

I did the Niels Jensen board review course. It was worth it to me for the peace of mind. Doing a mock oral with him in front of the entire room was helpful for me. His method for systematically breaking down a stem and developing a plan was really valuable to me. Every mock oral I did was very comparable to the real thing.

That being said, many of the attendees did not do well on their public mock orals. They had huge gaps in knowledge of basic concepts. There was one guy there who had been to 3 courses already in the past month and said "I don't know" about 10 times during his.

I feel like I probably would have passed without attending, but knowing that I had done all of the preparation including the course kept me from freaking out in my hotel room.

In regards to Ho, I know some of his examiners and some are excellent anesthesiologists, but there are a few I wouldn't let put my dog to sleep.

 

[Gern Blansten]

That being said, many of the attendees did not do well on their public mock orals. They had huge gaps in knowledge of basic concepts. There was one guy there who had been to 3 courses already in the past month and said "I don't know" about 10 times during his.

If they would market a course that could guarantee that there would be none of these types present, it could be very worthwhile. I think most review courses can be helpful to some of the borderline candidates. The problem becomes, most of the attendees are borderline candidates, many of whom have failed the exam multiple times and are not getting better or closer to passing. The courses, as hard as they try to avoid it, end up spending an inordinate amount of time teaching to the lowest common denominator which is the person who barely speaks english, barely graduated residency, or barely passed the written exam. Then the public mock oral exams become a showcase for how not to take the exam. If you could get a course filled with people demonstrating how to take the exam, that would be a winning course that would be worth the money for the peace of mind.
It seems to me that the smaller courses usually start off good. Then as they become popular, the crowds get bigger, the course director has difficulty turning away the almighty dollar and they outgrow their blood supply, becoming mediocre or bad courses. There is a huge difference between a course with 15-25 people in a small conference room getting lots of one on one instruction and the behemoth review course with 100 participants in a crowded room listening to people do poorly on mock oral exams.
The trick is to find the good course (if you feel you need one) before it is too popular. Once it is popular, the quality of the course drops like a rock.
That is my opinion. As someone mentioned, take as many mock orals as you can during residency so that you become comfortable with the format. Then partner with others in your class to administer exams in person or over the phone. Often, in the courses you go to, that is the format they will use anyway. You just pay them a lot of money for them to help organize it.

 

[criticalelement]

I took a course and found it immensely helpful and i passed on the first try.

I find it amazing that those of you who did not take the course and are bashing it. SOrt of like saying how you hate how a car drives before even driving it.

 

[Mman]

I took a course and found it immensely helpful and i passed on the first try.

I find it amazing that those of you who did not take the course and are bashing it. SOrt of like saying how you hate how a car drives before even driving it.

I didn't take any course, waltzed in and felt like I killed it, and found out I passed on the first try.

I have nothing personal against it. I just don't think 98% of residency grads that have passed written boards need to take a course. I mean you either have the knowledge or not. After that it's just being comfortable explaining your plan under pressure from the examiner. But isn't that just a normal day at work with surgeons questioning why you want to do something? I feel the courses are made for people with no self confidence.

 

[deleted171991]

I feel the courses are made for people with no self confidence.

... and no real-life experience as attendings, AKA fellows.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

I find it amazing that those of you who did not take the course and are bashing it.

Minion?

You are confused, criticalelement. We are not bashing the course. We are bashing the shameless promotion and shilling of that course on this forum, which has happened repeatedly.

Okay, so you took "a" course. Fine. This is a scientific specialty. We don't just "do" things because they "seem" like the right thing to do. We study them. We publish results. We show benefit or harm.

So, that's my challenge. I want Ho to publish his results. Every person who takes his course. Pass or fail afterwards. Publish it. That's the first thing. Then he's on the hook. If he lies, he'll subject himself to a lot of (potentially legal) headache. Does the course get the results? Put up or shut up.

Secondly, I want him to guarantee his results. Why shouldn't someone get a full course refund if they can't pass after taking his review? Forget the amount of money for travel and hotel. Just tell the people they get their course fee returned if they don't pass. That will make this course a lot more honest.

Truth and transparency. What you have now is fear-mongering and hucksterism. There are a lot of suckers who've taken this class more than once and are getting the same result. And dress it up as he may, deep down he probably doesn't care provided you are ponying up. I'm willing to bet he makes at least as much money with this course as he does practicing anesthesia. Greater good? Helping the strugglers? Certainly helping his own wallet.

 

[pgg]

I took a course and found it immensely helpful and i passed on the first try.

I find it amazing that those of you who did not take the course and are bashing it. SOrt of like saying how you hate how a car drives before even driving it.

I took a course, found it sort of helpful, mainly because it was 4 days of doing nothing but oral board review and practice, and I passed on the first try. Felt like I crushed the first session, then did OK with a couple minor stumbles on the second, and like most people spent the next few weeks obsessing over every question I could've answered better.

Of course the ABA didn't tell me the margin of my pass, so the course company would surely argue that I might have failed if not for their course. They could be right, who knows?

I didn't have to pay for it though, and I didn't have to take vacation time to do it. Essentially, my employer paid me to go. I don't think I'd have been as lukewarm satisfied if I'd dropped a few thousand bucks on it in fees, travel, and lost wages.

Then the public mock oral exams become a showcase for how not to take the exam.

This was exactly my experience ... at the Ho course. In a sense it was kind of reasssuring, but the time spent practicing with the other students personally was less useful.

For days 3 and 4 most of the practice was with other students. After a couple wasted sessions with strangers, I spent most of that time doing practice orals with a residency classmate of mine who happened to be taking the course too, and another guy who was a new attending at my residency program. Chew on that thought for a moment. I traveled and took time off work and my employer paid for a course, and I wound up doing some practice orals there with a guy I already knew and a guy working at my old program. Three course fees could've bought us a nice trio of suites at a resort and we could've sat around drinking expensive drinks and practicing with each other instead of hanging out in an LA airport hotel conference room.


I think the courses can be helpful and useful to some people. I think those people know who they are. Most people know if their knowledge is weak, or if they have trouble with public speaking, or if aren't fluent in English. I'm not anti-review-course by any means.

I just get angry every six months when one particular review course registers accounts on this forum and posts offensively transparent fake testimonials to drum up fear and business.

 

[Colba55o]

Reading this thread you would think only an idiot couldn't pass on the first try. I took Ho's weekend course in January along with 4 justoralboard.com mock orals the week before the exam this past April. I bombed the initial phone mock with Dr. Ho, which scared me into panic mode so for the next 3 months I studied religiously and did at least moderately well on all subsequent mock orals. Failed the real thing. Total shock to me as I thought it went well and I'm freaked out because I don't know how I can tackle it any differently next year. This coming from someone who was told by more than 1 attending during residency "I'm sure you'll pass the first time around"

I know a lot of people who took courses for the writtens which I thought was a waste of money. I haven't paid money to take a course since the SATs yet here I am having shelled out a couple thousand dollars only to fail anyway. There's no one way to prepare for this stuff; one person's method may not work for another person.

 

[deleted171991]

Reading this thread you would think only an idiot couldn't pass on the first try. I took Ho's weekend course in January along with 4 justoralboard.com mock orals the week before the exam this past April. I bombed the initial phone mock with Dr. Ho, which scared me into panic mode so for the next 3 months I studied religiously and did at least moderately well on all subsequent mock orals. Failed the real thing. Total shock to me as I thought it went well and I'm freaked out because I don't know how I can tackle it any differently next year. This coming from someone who was told by more than 1 attending during residency "I'm sure you'll pass the first time around"

I know a lot of people who took courses for the writtens which I thought was a waste of money. I haven't paid money to take a course since the SATs yet here I am having shelled out a couple thousand dollars only to fail anyway. There's no one way to prepare for this stuff; one person's method may not work for another person.

There is a good chance your problem is your knowledge base. Did you pass your ITEs during your residency?

People don't realize but, to be able to argue successfully and withstand counterargument, a candidate has both to be convinced him/herself that s/he is right, and have the detailed professional knowledge to prove it. People may fail because they sound tentative, or because they cannot explain their decisions in an effective manner. Like a good salesperson, one has to know the product one sells well and believe in it.

Colba55o, find somebody who has gone through the same thing, to help you with the psychology. And find good mock oral examiners among junior attendings, people who want to genuinely help you (they can be even just one or two) and who can be brutally honest with you. Consolidate your knowledge base and keep doing mock orals until they become your second nature. Consider every professional discussion with a surgeon or a colleague a mock oral. Measure how convincing you sound on a daily basis; be aware of everything you are saying and how you are presenting it. It's not rocket science, that's why 85-90% of graduates pass it on the first attempt. You just have to analyze yourself and figure out whether the problem is not knowing the product or not being able to sell it. Then go fix that part.

I had a mock oral sparring partner who was a great co-resident, a very good anesthesiologist (definitely better than me), but had gaps in her medical knowledge. And if one knew what one was looking for, one could detect them when doing mock orals with her: she would nail certain questions and then she would BS the ones she did not know well. And, I guess, she did not get lucky on her first oral boards.

You have to know everything well. You can't have any gaps, because they'll bite you. You have just two cases, and you have to prepare to ace both of them, especially the first one (it will give you a lot of confidence for the second). You have to sound articulate and convincing, besides being correct.

I am a FMG and I speak English with an accent. If I could do it, you can do it.

 

[sevoflurane]

Just cuz you have the knowledge doesn't mean you will pass the test. That is not the point of the orals.

The examiners want to look at you across the table and see a consultant of anesthesiology.
The key to this test is to do as many parcatice oral exams as possible.
Know, HOW to answer the question is the key to this test.
Simple superficial answers won't do the trick in the test. A lot of answers can and should be in a "IF this then THAT" format. Example: if it's a La fort 2 fracture then this, but If it's a La fort 3 fracture then that. These types of answer show DEPTH of knowledge.

I disagree with most people here. The test has a rhythm to it that needs to be learned. There are a lot of kill errors that need to be learned. Simple things like questioning the examiners can be kill errors as well.

I went to the weekend HO course. I found it useful as it put me in the hot seat with a complete stranger many times over.
The course provided 20 or 30 sceneriors my wife and I used prior to the course itself. It was nice to go over.

People have different way of learning... I've seen some brilliant individuals FAIL because of overconfidence.

I learn more by doing... So it worked for me. For someone to say that the course is BS is completely missing the fact that some people may actually benefit from it.

Failing to prepare is preparing to fail... How you prepare is a personal matter.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

You would have passed the oral boards without the Ho course, Sevo.

 

[Mac4]

I attend two prep courses (UBP and JOB). I did these because they are paid by CME money and I speak/write with an accent. UBP gave me an good review on Peds and OB anesthesia which I rarely do any more. JOB forced me to speak clearly and slowly when talking to total strangers who were not afraid to criticize me directly. Both courses are run by good people who want to help ( and make some money too).

 

[sevoflurane]

You would have passed the oral boards without the Ho course, Sevo.

Prolly so Buzz. I'm just one of those guys who overstudies for every exam I've ever taken. It makes me feel better and gives me confidence as D-day approaches. Just the way I roll.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

Prolly so Buzz. I'm just one of those guys who overstudies for every exam I've ever taken. It makes me feel better and gives me confidence as D-day approaches. Just the way I roll.

Not judging. Just suggesting that it was superfluous.

 

[Spinach Dip]

Probably the same students who payed for SAT courses 12 years ago

And MCAT courses 8 years ago.

And STEP1 courses 6 years ago.

And STEP2 courses 4 years ago.

etc.

 

[psychbender]

I took and passed my orals on my first attempt this Fall. Before the orals, the only prep course I'd ever taken was a Step I course, and that was only because my school offered to subsidize part of the cost. I took one of the UBP courses this year, and thought it was pretty good. Probably the most useful part, though, were the books with overly-complicated stems. I practiced responding to those questions aloud, and in front of my wife, and it helped me to be able to more eloquently express my thoughts (things in my head sound so much more awesome, until I open my mouth). I originally wasn't planning on taking a prep course (we did a lot of oral board exams in residency), but I was getting nervous, since I work at a smaller hospital, with only a couple of anesthesiologists, and I hadn't done any mock orals since midway through CA3 year (spent the second half away from the mothership). In hindsight, I still probably would have passed, but because of the practice, I felt more confident when I walked out of the exam rooms.

 

[dhb]

things in my head sound so much more awesome, until I open my mouth

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Probably the same students who payed for SAT courses 12 years ago

And MCAT courses 8 years ago.

And STEP1 courses 6 years ago.

And STEP2 courses 4 years ago.

etc.

No.

 

[CaliforniaBound]

I agree with most everyone on here in regards to a prep course. Most people do end up passing without them. I didn't take one and passed on my first try. However, I'm at a large academic center where we do large and scary cases every day. The chair and vice chair of our program are active board examiners and so I felt practice with them would be sufficient for me. If I ha been in private practice without people to practice with I may have considered a course. It can be confidence boosting I suppose. Two of my residency classmates who were fairly smart took the course and failed. That's probably more of a reflection on them than a course but the point being a course won't help make up for glaring medical knowledge gaps or English skills or social awkwardness. The oral board examiners at my program gave me this advice which I found helpful. Hopefully others will gain from it as well.

1. They really do want everyone to pass
2. They want you to prove you're safe. If you can defend why inducing with x,y, or z is safe they will pass you even though they might not do it that way
3. Answer the damn question! They both told me they fail more people over this than any other. People either take too long and stall, or they answer every question with "I'd do a history and physical" or they postulate and say "well you could do this, or this, or this" THEY KNOW ALL OF THAT! They want to know what YOU would do and why.
4. The examiners get the exams the night before or the morning of the exam. They all get together in the morning before for breakfast and often discuss amongst themselves what the answers are. They are instructed to not look anything up.
5. Practice talking! The biggest reason people fail in their opinion is lack of practice. Listening to someone lecture at you is ineffective. They assume you are smart because you passed writtens. They want you to articulate your knowledge. They don't want bull ****. They don't want lying. They want honest simple answers. An if you don't know, say so. Both said they won't fail someone for saying it....unless it's the answer to every question.

 

[Sonny Crocket]

I agree with most everyone on here in regards to a prep course. Most people do end up passing without them. I didn't take one and passed on my first try. However, I'm at a large academic center where we do large and scary cases every day. The chair and vice chair of our program are active board examiners and so I felt practice with them would be sufficient for me. If I ha been in private practice without people to practice with I may have considered a course. It can be confidence boosting I suppose. Two of my residency classmates who were fairly smart took the course and failed. That's probably more of a reflection on them than a course but the point being a course won't help make up for glaring medical knowledge gaps or English skills or social awkwardness. The oral board examiners at my program gave me this advice which I found helpful. Hopefully others will gain from it as well.

1. They really do want everyone to pass
2. They want you to prove you're safe. If you can defend why inducing with x,y, or z is safe they will pass you even though they might not do it that way
3. Answer the damn question! They both told me they fail more people over this than any other. People either take too long and stall, or they answer every question with "I'd do a history and physical" or they postulate and say "well you could do this, or this, or this" THEY KNOW ALL OF THAT! They want to know what YOU would do and why.
4. The examiners get the exams the night before or the morning of the exam. They all get together in the morning before for breakfast and often discuss amongst themselves what the answers are. They are instructed to not look anything up.
5. Practice talking! The biggest reason people fail in their opinion is lack of practice. Listening to someone lecture at you is ineffective. They assume you are smart because you passed writtens. They want you to articulate your knowledge. They don't want bull ****. They don't want lying. They want honest simple answers. An if you don't know, say so. Both said they won't fail someone for saying it....unless it's the answer to every question.

This should be a stickie

 

[Med0000]

Don't waste your money on these courses. Read, practice, and do the things above. And don't give any more money to Ho. He's already made enough on your fear. If you want to pay him, tell him you expect a full refund if you don't pass. If he won't offer you that, don't take his course.

It's nice that you posted some really good advice for people studying for oral boards. It's an individual decision to spend money & time on a review course. Some people need a venue like this in order to gain the confidence to pass, most do not.

Your statement about Ho and his course are statements of arrogance.


*edited once for clarity

 

[BuzzPhreed]

Your feelings about Ho and his course are statements of arrogance.

You make only four posts since August, and none prior to that since March of 2012, and you come here to post this?

Listen, I stated above that Ho should track and publicly publish his results. Why doesn't he? How many of the people who take his course are repeat failures? And, how about a guarantee that they'll pass?

Most people simply don't need this course. They take it anyway. And Ho lines his pockets. I never met the man. But generally I don't like people who make money by capitalizing on other people's fear.

Call that my arrogance if you want. I don't care. But, I think you're confused about who's really the arrogant one in this case.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

There are four categories of people who take this course:

1) People (like sevoflurane) who don't need to take it and would've passed it anyway. I also suspect that this the majority.
2) Those who are going to fail it no matter what.
3) Those who've failed it once and are in a panic. Chances are they're going to pass it on the second try with a little extra practice and better self-preparation.
4) Those who've failed it repeatedly.

1 is a no-brainer and a complete waste of money. 2 and 4 are pretty much lost causes. 3 is maybe the only justified group -- maybe.

So, why give this guy your money? And why does he have to repeatedly send his shills here for free advertising? I'm just not impressed at all with his operation. Not at all.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

There are four categories of people who take this course:

1) People (like sevoflurane) who don't need to take it and would've passed it anyway. I also suspect that this the majority.
2) Those who are going to fail it no matter what.
3) Those who've failed it once and are in a panic. Chances are they're going to pass it on the second try with a little extra practice and better self-preparation.
4) Those who've failed it repeatedly.

1 is a no-brainer and a complete waste of money. 2 and 4 are pretty much lost causes. 3 is maybe the only justified group -- maybe.

So, why give this guy your money? And why does he have to repeatedly send his shills here for free advertising? I'm just not impressed at all with his operation. Not at all.

I took his course. I had the time and money for it. What's the big deal?

If anything it made me feel better about things since I realized how well off I was when I saw what the caliber of most of the people at the course.

I agree the shilling here is ridiculous. We do everything we can to prevent and/or stop it.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

Arch, you're also a "1".

 

[Ipassgas]

Nobody wants my opinion, but here it is anyway.

For the written test, I didn't have the luxury of a month off to study. I passed most of my AKT/ITE handily (no matter how you define pass). However, I laid a MAJOR egg once. It was bad. My plan was 6 months before, read/reread some choice material. 2 months before, start moving questions in. One month before, just questions.

I considered a course. But I didn't do it due to time and money. I felt I did what I could with what I had, but if I'd failed, I'd take 2 or 3 courses.

I passed. Most people do. But you can't know which camp you'll be in until it's too late. All of the courses capitalize on fear. It's what they do.

For orals, I used google hangouts to do a bunch of stems with 3-4 classmates who had the same testing week. At least two people were online 6 days a week (for about 6 weeks). Did I like all of them? No. Did I respect every opinion they had? No. But we didn't do it to make best friends. We did it to help ourselves pass. We all passed. (Full disclosure, 2 of the people took one or more of the paid courses.)

I had the same opinion of courses for the oral boards. Pass and I'm good. Fail, and I take 2-3 classes.

My residency had problems getting people through the qualifying exam, so that was the bulk of the focus. We had one certifying examiner. Most of us only did a couple of oral practice tests with him/her, but there was an offer to do one or two by phone in the month before the oral exam. S/he refused to do it with me - (Because I know you'll pass. I don't have time to help the shoo ins). That caused some anxiety for me. But I passed.

Buzz is right about posting results, but it should be all of the courses, both oral and written.

I almost took the Pass Machine written course. The only reason was their partial refund and free class next year for the failures. It's a good marketing strategy. Most people pass. The marginal cost to the (written) course is the price difference for a hotel conference room for 120 instead of 100. And the room is probably free to them based on the number of attendees staying in the hotel. I'm not in the business of selling courses, but I don't see why they can't do the same thing with oral exam classes.

 

[gtb]

Why the hate for Ho? I took his 4-day course immediately before the orals, and thought it was a useful review. I had the money, I had the time, and I genuinely thought it bumped up my knowledge across the areas of anesthesiology that I didn't practice regularly. I rarely lurk the SDN forums, and so I don't know whether Ho is spamming this board with advertisements for his courses. But, I thought it was worth the money. I went to U. Washington, felt that I had decent training , and that I didn't get a less than average residency experience. And, I still thought Ho's course was valuable, not just for the orals, but to refresh my knowledge across those topics I didn't know well.

You never know what you don't know.
Unskilled and unaware of it: how difficulties in recognizing one's own incompetence lead to inflated self-assessments.
Kruger J, Dunning D.
J Pers Soc Psychol. 1999 Dec;77(6):1121-34.

 

[Mman]

You never know what you don't know.
Unskilled and unaware of it: how difficulties in recognizing one's own incompetence lead to inflated self-assessments.
Kruger J, Dunning D.
J Pers Soc Psychol. 1999 Dec;77(6):1121-34.

How can you not know what you don't know when it comes to boards? Board questions essentially come from Miller. When they write new questions for the boards, they cite Miller as the reference. The oral exam topics cover questions that are covered in Miller. It's pretty straight forward. I mean you either know it or you don't.

I find it hard to believe anybody ever took the oral boards and was given a question that they didn't know they were supposed to know the answer to. I mean you might not know the answer, but you'd be aware of why you should know the answer.

 

[deleted171991]

How can you not know what you don't know when it comes to boards? Board questions essentially come from Miller. When they write new questions for the boards, they cite Miller as the reference. The oral exam topics cover questions that are covered in Miller. It's pretty straight forward. I mean you either know it or you don't.

I find it hard to believe anybody ever took the oral boards and was given a question that they didn't know they were supposed to know the answer to. I mean you might not know the answer, but you'd be aware of why you should know the answer.

Of course the oral exam topics are covered in Miller, for the simple reason that Miller covers more anesthesia than any of us will ever know. It's friggin' 3500 pages!!! (And $425, are these people crazy?) So let me tell you: it would take me 3-6 months just to browse the book enough to find out exactly what I don't know from there. If only I could stay awake...

(Can we please get an anesthesia reference textbook edited by Drs. Butterworth, Mackey, Wasnick et al, also known as the current M&M team? Barash and Miller have been competing with Ambien for years.)

 

[Mman]

Of course the oral exam topics are covered in Miller, for the simple reason that Miller covers more anesthesia than any of us will ever know. It's friggin' 3500 pages!!! So let me tell you: it would take me 3-6 months just to browse the book enough to find out exactly what I don't know from there. If only I could stay awake...

But that's my point. It's not unknown topics you will be asked about during oral boards. It's known topics.

 

[deleted171991]

But that's my point. It's not unknown topics you will be asked about during oral boards. It's known topics.

That's like saying that asking questions from Harrison's for the internal medicine boards is OK.

Nobody reads these monstrosities from beginning to end (anymore).

But I get your point and I agree. One should know what one doesn't know but should.

 

[Mman]

That's like saying that asking questions from Harrison's for the internal medicine boards is OK.

Nobody reads these monstrosities from beginning to end (anymore).

But I get your point and I agree. One should know what one doesn't know but should.

Really? I think I read it twice during residency. Not start to finish, but chapter by chapter depending on what rotation I was on. I would really hope that every graduating resident has at least read each chapter once. If they haven't, that's on them.

 

[deleted171991]

Really? I think I read it twice during residency. Not start to finish, but chapter by chapter depending on what rotation I was on. I would really hope that every graduating resident has at least read each chapter once. If they haven't, that's on them.

What can I say? You seem to be at least twice as good as I am. Because I probably read only about 40% of those chapters.

We used to have this megalomaniac rite of passage, where any decent anesthesia resident should read Barash or Miller from cover to cover. But that was when these books were at least 1/3 less in size (and probably much better edited).

There is a reason why I like reading the same stuff from a number of different books (preferably handbooks/manuals). I like to read various (expert) opinions, not just a list of "evidence-based" pseudofacts and citations. I tend to avoid the two anesthesia "bibles", unless I have no choice (both have some really great chapters, but I bow to neither).

 

[criticalelement]

What HO does is demystify the process. I am in no way affiliated with his course or him personally. I took his course and passed first time hands down walking out the door. I was answering the questions before the board examiner was finished asking it and answering their follow up questions before they asked it. Ho;s knowledge is truly impressive. ANd his course is equally so. Call me a shill.. whatever. I spent money on his courses years ago and have an informed opinion rather than NOT take his course and call it a waste of money. It was money well spent. The board examiners and the board for that matter are out dated ass wi^^^ and i was happy to have someone who had their number and who helped other people have their number.

 

[BuzzPhreed]

Barash isn't the bible.

Miller isn't the Koran.

Ho isn't Jesus.

Save your money.