Job negotiations

[Sheldor]

Hey everyone!

Did a search and couldn't find any recent threads on this topic. Given the time of year it is, I thought it might be helpful to collect some wisdom from previous grads.

I envision this thread being a "You've got an offer, what next?"

Any advice on negotiating starting salaries in private practice? Private vs hospital based?
Did anyone buy the MGMA survey to use to negotiate?

What other advice for things to negotiate for? Seems like there are tons of things you wouldn't know to think about the first time around, so things you wish you had asked for negotiating your first job contract?

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[mpdoc2]

Hey everyone!

Did a search and couldn't find any recent threads on this topic. Given the time of year it is, I thought it might be helpful to collect some wisdom from previous grads.

I envision this thread being a "You've got an offer, what next?"

Any advice on negotiating starting salaries in private practice? Private vs hospital based?
Did anyone buy the MGMA survey to use to negotiate?

What other advice for things to negotiate for? Seems like there are tons of things you wouldn't know to think about the first time around, so things you wish you had asked for negotiating your first job contract?

Out of curiosity aren't you a PGY-2? If you are, by the time your done the job market will be very different (may be more like radiology where fellowships are necessary). At the end of the day it's a supply/demand market. If the supply is too much your negotiating power is weak.

 

[xrthopeful]

Chicken little over here.

 

[mpdoc2]

Chicken little over here.

Nope, speaking from recent experience. I literally had written offers be different from original verbal offers due to demand for the jobs. Also radiologist friends of mine were doing at least 2 1-year fellowships to land a job so I don't see how I'm exaggerating the possibilities? The PDs really need to control the numbers better.

 

[xrthopeful]

if you're saying that 3 years from now everyone will be doing fellowships to get jobs, you're past the point of rationality where I would hire you to be a radiation oncologist.

 

[mpdoc2]

if you're saying that 3 years from now everyone will be doing fellowships to get jobs, you're past the point of rationality where I would hire you to be a radiation oncologist.

I'm saying that's a definite possibility. You realize the landscape of radiologist (which offer many more positions) changed dramatically in the recent 5 years right? When I started medschool getting into radiology was part of the ROAD to happiness. By the end of residency 50% of radiology residents were foreign grads because American grads didn't want to do it (due to the crappy job prospects).

I realize you haven't been through the process. But I recently graduated (from a top rated institution) and finding a job was not a pleasant experience when there was so much demand. I hope we don't have the same fortune as radiologist but obviously things can't continue the way they are where every program is expanding...

 

[Reaganite]

I think if you are dead-set on a specific geographic area, particularly a desirable one, MGMA survey, partnership track, etc. goes out the window. Sadly, what people are going to want to hear is "how low can you go." They also may only have a part-time position available. One of the biggest problems is that many of these areas have a decent size locum pool of older docs who are willing to cover your clinic part-time for as low as $1000 per day. Heck, I have someone who is willing to do $800 a day actually. So I think you really have to be willing to take a chance. Take that part-time job for 6 months and see if it leads somewhere. Maybe you'll buddy up with the hospital CEO or meet some influential person who hooks you up with a job somewhere else in the area. You never know what can happen. I just think it's important to understand there are limited 'regular' jobs in highly desirable areas these days.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

Why would people want to live in these "highly desirable areas"? you guys must love getting taxed!

 

[PhotonBomb]

'Tax' has very little to do with what people talk about when it comes to cost of living in desirable areas. Strange argument to bring up. Talk about burying the lede.

 

[medgator]

Why would people want to live in these "highly desirable areas"? you guys must love getting taxed!

There are highly desirable areas in FL, tx, nc, va and co too

 

[Neuronix]

As I'm looking for a job myself, I have to agree with the other attending level posters. You need to be thinking about "how do I get a (reasonable) offer" in the first place.

The room for negotiation is limited unless you're talking about undesirable areas (e.g. suburban/rural midwest). In many (most?) academic programs, the contracts are pretty much to the point of "take it or leave it".

 

[hot sauce]

I have not heard people using MGMA survey for negotiation. Does that survey include people fresh out of residency? Dr. Terry Wall does a survey of new graduates that he presents annually at ASTRO but as others have mentioned starting salary is just one component of a job; it is not the only thing to negotiate. You can ask for retirement contribution, more vacation, production bonus, CME funding / time, etc. I would suggest interviewing broadly. Being able to say you have another offer provides leverage. Some places will say take it or leave it; some will mean it and others will have some wiggle room.