Just got kicked out of a volunteering gig... how will it affect my application?

[IL Pre Med]

Before you made threads about not having a job and how it'll affect your application and you also posted if it's okay to enter medicine without wanting to help people. Even though I firmly believe you don't need to have a burning desire to help people to enter medicine or you don't need to have a job to show maturity, you are an immature kid. Logging fake hours to go to an arcade? Wtf seriously? And then posting if it's okay to list it on your application? Lol

LOL last time I was in an arcade I was 12

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[Mavs88]

Of course you need to never mention this gig anywhere. Pretend it never happened.

On the other hand, I get why some are saying you are dishonest...but I get your situation. Is there REALLY that big of a difference in sitting there doing nothing for 4 hours and leaving & coming back? It's not a job, nobody needs you there, and there's nothing to do anyway. It's all a sham. It's hard to find meaningful/interactive clinical volunteering.

Meh, don't do it again though. Get a book or study material and chill there.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Of course you need to never mention this gig anywhere. Pretend it never happened.

On the other hand, I get why some are saying you are dishonest...but I get your situation. Is there REALLY that big of a difference in sitting there doing nothing for 4 hours and leaving & coming back? It's not a job, nobody needs you there, and there's nothing to do anyway. It's all a sham. It's hard to find meaningful/interactive clinical volunteering.

Meh, don't do it again though. Get a book or study material and chill there.

I totally agree with you (top and bottom paragraphs), and also see what you're saying about the dishonesty. There is, however, a difference between sitting there doing nothing for 4 hours and leaving & coming back. The latter will get you kicked out, while the former is fine. If people are doing volunteering solely for the purpose of medical school admissions, then the former is heaven! There's nothing unethical or immoral about sitting on your ass and not being proactive as long as you help out when asked. That's why the OP's story is so baffling. You have some genuinely altruistic pre-meds that face medical teams who are skeptical of their intentions, but when they put forth tremendous effort, the medical team is pleasantly surprised and the person thus has a great experience. If the OP didn't feel there was enough to do but wanted to do something meaningful, they could have been proactive and sought out to help kids without being asked by the staff. If there is nothing to do for someone looking for meaningful work, they will quit and find something else. Signing in and ditching is gaming the system unethically, end of story.

All of the embellishing and lying that takes place undermines the importance of volunteering. Plenty of your former classmates will have either lied, embellished, or hated every moment of volunteering. And guess what? They will be perfectly fine doctors. I don't see what volunteering specifically has to do with being a physician. You'll have physicians that give back to the community, and those that don't. Neither will have any effect on patient care. With the 2015 MCAT being phased in and some changes taking place with AMCAS such as no hours per week (for activities), maybe some further changes can be made to these ECs as well.

And of course, the OP better call Saul!

 

[aegistitan]

"Don't hate the player, hate the game."

To be honest I feel kind of crummy volunteering at a hospice and going to vigil services for the sake of medical school. When I'm next to a dying person who doesn't have family, yeah I am there for them - but it feels artificial. I go to their vigil at 2am so I can rack up volunteer hours during the hours when I can't volunteer elsewhere. In my mind I think about how I would never be there on my own accord. So I guess this game is encouraging me to help others, but I'm only helping others to help myself, it feels almost wrong.

 

[Planes2Doc]

To be honest I feel kind of crummy volunteering at a hospice and going to vigil services for the sake of medical school. When I'm next to a dying person who doesn't have family, yeah I am there for them - but it feels artificial. I go to their vigil at 2am so I can rack up volunteer hours during the hours when I can't volunteer elsewhere. In my mind I think about how I would never be there on my own accord. So I guess this game is encouraging me to help others, but I'm only helping others to help myself, it feels almost wrong.

Wow, that's a pretty interesting perspective! Here's how I see it: Even if you're one of those elderly volunteers, you are still likely volunteering for an ulterior motive. Either it gives them something productive to do or gives them that warm fuzzy feeling on the inside. People are volunteering for all types of reasons. Just because you plan on going to medical school doesn't negate what you're actually doing (and don't forget that you have a very noble ambition). As long as you're providing comfort and care to the patients, that's what matters. They will appreciate everything you do for them regardless of what your motives are.

 

[Doctor Dream]

Eventually it got to a point where I was so sick of this place that I just logged in at 1 pm, left the building and caught a movie or hit up an arcade for a few hours, then just showed back up around 3:50 pm for the last 10 minutes to log my 3 hours in.

Helpful advice needed here.

Don't waste your time applying to med school. That's my helpful advice.

 

[V5RED]

What you fail to realize is that adcoms care little about whether you volunteer 50 or 500 hours at the local hospital. Unless you accomplished something (ie started a new organization or started your undergrad research journal) all those ECs just look like fillers to the actual decision makers. Finally, do you really think a medical school is going to invest in hiring someone to checkup on everyone's ECs? Medical schools (and students for that matter) are not considered high priority in the institutions overall goals. First is money (through increased patient numbers) second is research, and finally it's education. When it comes to education, resident education takes priority over medical student education. I have been involved in both medical student and resident admissions and I promise you an institution will not hire someone to checkup on whether an applicant has really done the ECs they claim. I'm not saying it to be harsh or mean, but just talking about the reality of things when everything comes down to money.

Your post is confusing. It is simple to check up on people from within a pre heath committee. That has absolutely nothing to do with a medical school. Was your post meant as pure antagonism? If not, it makes no sense to say what you said.

You talk about goals. Whose goals? You list the med students and med schools as not mattering for the goals. Whose goals are you talking about? The pre med committee can easily moniter people bull****ting their hours and get around all the crazy lawsuit stuff you talk about.

 

[Lawpy]

Your post is confusing. It is simple to check up on people from within a pre heath committee. That has absolutely nothing to do with a medical school. Was your post meant as pure antagonism? If not, it makes no sense to say what you said.

You talk about goals. Whose goals? You list the med students and med schools as not mattering for the goals. Whose goals are you talking about? The pre med committee can easily moniter people bull****ting their hours and get around all the crazy lawsuit stuff you talk about.

The point was no one will verify every activity for every applicant because it's least important for med schools, especially when such activities add no value

 

[chillinillinkillin007]

LOL last time I was in an arcade I was 12

I'm surprised arcades still exist. I can see OP ditching his volunteer session and going to Dave and Busters by himself.

 

[V5RED]

The point was no one will verify every activity for every applicant because it's least important for med schools, especially when such activities add no value

That makes no sense given that medical schools will not consider applicants that lack such activities.

 

[V5RED]

Read what I wrote. Goals that Im talking about are the goals of the institution (for example the goals of Harvard University) that the medical school is part of. Secondly I didnt say medstudents dont matter, I said they are not the highest priority to spend time checking on their ECs. Whether you like it or not what Im stating is true from first hand experience being involved with a top 10 institution.

I read what you wrote. Perhaps you should read what I wrote and the post I referred to. In those posts, a system wherein the pre health committee did the checking was advocated. In any event, if your school gives consideration to those with volunteer/shadowing hours then they should check if those hours happened. If your school can't be arsed to check, then they should not consider those hours in evaluations of applicants.

You said that hours are irrelevant and that any attempt to keep cheaters in line was stupid. That is a very sad perspective, and you ignored where I posted that it is not just about getting in, but living with yourself as a cheater and weak human that really mattered to me.

 

[911 Turbo]

loling at people telling OP not to put that on his app. "volunteering" in a hospital in most cases, like OP's case, is a stupid check-mark the box activity that sanctimonious premeds like to tout. I mean some adcoms that ive talked to literally don't care if you have 0 hours of volunteering/shadowing on your app.


instead of "shadowing"/"volunteering", all freshman premeds should be required to live the life of a surgical intern for two weeks. same eating/sleeping/working schedule - shadowing at its best. dead serious. maybe this way I won't have to listen to 50 freshman premeds tell me how they are going to be a "badass heart surgeon who people respect"

 

[Doctor Dream]

I picture OP like every 80's teen movie where the kid skips class or something to play Galaga at the arcade with his buddies.

Terminator II

 

[chillinillinkillin007]

loling at people telling OP not to put that on his app. "volunteering" in a hospital in most cases, like OP's case, is a stupid check-mark the box activity that sanctimonious premeds like to tout. I mean some adcoms that ive talked to literally don't care if you have 0 hours of volunteering/shadowing on your app.


instead of "shadowing"/"volunteering", all freshman premeds should be required to live the life of a surgical intern for two weeks. same eating/sleeping/working schedule - shadowing at its best. dead serious. maybe this way I won't have to listen to 50 freshman premeds tell me how they are going to be a "badass heart surgeon who people respect"

disagree with 1st paragraph. Agree with second.

 

[Lawpy]

That makes no sense given that medical schools will not consider applicants that lack such activities.

That's only because the system created and supported by the schools and AAMC is flawed. There are a bunch of contradictions in the process that it's laughable when admissions get mad when applicants game the system they created only recently

 

[ridethecliche]

And here I was rounding down hours because working full time for two years (x2 for two different jobs) seemed like way too many hours.

 

[Planes2Doc]

That's only because the system created and supported by the schools and AAMC is flawed. There are a bunch of contradictions in the process that it's laughable when admissions get mad when applicants game the system they created only recently

Bingo! That's why in one of my threads I compared ADCOMs to casinos with their house rules. ADCOMs tell pre-meds that they should only do things they are passionate about, and not do things just for the sake of getting into medical school. Casinos ban advantage gamblers (ie card counters at Blackjack) because gambling is supposed to be a form of entertainment, not a career.

If you play by the ADCOMs' rules and only do things you genuinely want to do, you'll never get into medical school, and can waste a lot of precious time. If you play by the casino's rules and leave your brain at home, you'll lose a lot of money. Thus, I can see ADCOMs literally saying: You're going to volunteer, and you're going to enjoy it. If you don't, then you shouldn't go to medical school. You can't have it both ways... You can't create a bunch of unofficial hoops to jump through, tell them not jump through them unless they genuinely want to, and then penalize them for not doing so.

Flawed is an understatement.

 

[Lawpy]

Bingo! That's why in one of my threads I compared ADCOMs to casinos with their house rules. ADCOMs tell pre-meds that they should only do things they are passionate about, and not do things just for the sake of getting into medical school. Casinos ban advantage gamblers (ie card counters at Blackjack) because gambling is supposed to be a form of entertainment, not a career.

If you play by the ADCOMs' rules and only do things you genuinely want to do, you'll never get into medical school, and can waste a lot of precious time. If you play by the casino's rules and leave your brain at home, you'll lose a lot of money. Thus, I can see ADCOMs literally saying: You're going to volunteer, and you're going to enjoy it. If you don't, then you shouldn't go to medical school.

Flawed is an understatement.

Yeah it's awful. The damage is pretty much irreversible thanks to AAMC brilliant idea of expanding the MCAT to include newer sections as a way to produce better well-rounded physicians. Great goal. Terrible execution.

What's even interesting is the physicians and residents i work with (and got their MD from early to mid 2000s) jokingly admitted they wouldn't have got into med school had they applied this cycle due to an explosion of so many new boxes to be checked.

The irony is beautiful. The SDN credo is to follow your passions, but as you rightfully said, following ONLY your passions won't get you accepted. And yet following the conventional ECs is the sign of checkbox mentality and showing you're doing it because you have to which defeats the main objective. It'll get worse until someone basically overthrows the system

 

[Planes2Doc]

Yeah it's awful. The damage is pretty much irreversible thanks to AAMC brilliant idea of expanding the MCAT to include newer sections as a way to produce better well-rounded physicians. Great goal. Terrible execution.

What's even interesting is the physicians and residents i work with (and got their MD from early to mid 2000s) jokingly admitted they wouldn't have got into med school had they applied this cycle due to an explosion of so many new boxes to be checked.

The irony is beautiful. The SDN credo is to follow your passions, but as you rightfully said, following ONLY your passions won't get you accepted. And yet following the conventional ECs is the sign of checkbox mentality and showing you're doing it because you have to which defeats the main objective. It'll get worse until someone basically overthrows the system

Damned if you do, damned if you don't... Beautifully said!

 

[Mr Roboto]

I read almost to the end of the first post before bothering to check who was the OP. /facepalm

 

[Conflagration]

I got away with this for a good month or so without anyone noticing/caring... until just last week. Somehow one of the secretaries got wind of what I was doing and told the volunteer coordinator. After putting me on blast in front everyone there (parents, visitors, kids, etc) she told me that I was officially relieved of my duties and said I was never to return again. I countered with a rancorous, expletive-laced comeback of my own and then left.

I only logged ~20 hours before they kicked me out. Will it look odd if I did a volunteering activity for only 20 hours? Or would I be better off just not putting this activity on my application? Will this tank my chances?

I think you're asking the wrong questions, dude. The fact that you got caught being a dishonest prick and instead of growing some stones and owning it, started a confrontation in front of visitors and children should call other things into question, tbh.

 

[Deadlifts]

No he is not lucky. In today's environment no one would call the medical school to talk badly about you, especially a volunteer coordinator. If they do such a thing, they risk getting sued and will therefore never put their hospital at risk for a lawsuit. I know Attendings these days who don't write poor evaluation letters for residents due to the risk of getting sued (they just refuse to write one). I love how far removed from reality a lot of people on this thread are.

Welcome to pre-allo.

 

[motz]

I was put on probation for oversleeping one time but damn this is dishonest. If it wasn't a good use of your time, don't do it.

 

[audimeister]

I log all my hours through a verification center of my school and then they get hour confirmations from places where I volunteer and record them on my transcript.

You are lucky that your volunteering cordinator did not make any attempts to contact your school and somehow put a record of your dishonesty. I know a professor who enjoys marking students' transcripts very much.

Where do you go for school because that is a really interesting system that I feel would really benefit both parties of the MS admissions process; I would inquire to see if my school has a similar, if not identical, system. I could volunteer at a local hospital for altruistic reasons and adcoms would know that I didn't just bull**** the hours I put on my app.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Where do you go for school because that is a really interesting system that I feel would really benefit both parties of the MS admissions process; I would inquire to see if my school has a similar, if not identical, system. I could volunteer at a local hospital for altruistic reasons and adcoms would know that I didn't just bull**** the hours I put on my app.

I'm guessing this school might have mandatory community service of some type. This is completely unheard of. Until this hidden requirement has its name changed to "community service," ADCOMs will need to assume that everyone is doing this for altruistic reasons, and that no one is BSing those hours to put on the app. Because that's what volunteering is, something you voluntarily do since you aren't required to do it.

 

[audimeister]

I'm guessing this school might have mandatory community service of some type. This is completely unheard of. Until this hidden requirement has its name changed to "community service," ADCOMs will need to assume that everyone is doing this for altruistic reasons, and that no one is BSing those hours to put on the app. Because that's what volunteering is, something you voluntarily do since you aren't required to do it.

Alright, thanks for the advice. I'm hoping I actually earn experience volunteering while serving others. I feel like that'd prepare me best for the real world after MS because, out there, there's no end to the stress and I want to be able to give patients a good experience.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

Rifle is back with a vengeance. I always love reading these stories. I knew a kid that actually did do this. I wish he had gotten caught.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Rifle is back with a vengeance. I always love reading these stories. I knew a kid that actually did do this. I wish he had gotten caught.

I enjoy reading them too. Even though people always claim troll, these things actually happen, and are pretty common.