Just started a private practice....now what?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Psychresy

Full Member
2+ Year Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2020
Messages
427
Reaction score
394
So I'm a recent grad, have a couple jobs which more than pay the bills while I get my practice up and running. I am currently listed on psychology today. I am paneling with a couple insurers and the rates I got back from one of them today (a major payor on the west coast) was beyond low. Like $40ish for 90833, $80ish for 99214. My office is in a nice area of Los Angeles, so very HCOL.

I've so far gotten nothing via psychology today. Not even an email. I'm afraid if the other two insurers offer similarly low rates, I'll be stuck without any patients. I've started networking with therapists and have a few meetings coming up with them. But otherwise, I'm stuck.

What do I do to get people in the door?

Members don't see this ad.
 
How long has your private practice been up and running? It's common for it to take around 3-6 months before you see your first patient.
  1. Meet with other psychiatrists in the area who are full who can give you their overflow.
  2. Meet with therapists in the area.
  3. Meet with the case worker for the IOP/PHP/RTF programs in your area to be on their referral list.
  4. Contact the program director for UCLA to be on the resident clinic referral list in case they want to discharge any patients to community providers for stability.
  5. Join SCPS and start going to their meetings/events to introduce yourself.
  6. Try joining the UCLA VCF and PCFA. There's an event in Nov that might be worthwhile going to and networking there.
  7. Make sure your office is updated on Google Maps, Apple Maps, Yelp, and all those other websites (vitals, doximity, etc).
  8. Join the Facebook groups: private practice, psychiatry network, therapists of west los angeles, los angeles psychologists and psychiatrists, if you're CAP then child psychiatry network.
  9. Be on the psychiatrist list for different associations, like IOCDF, MH Direct, Therapy Den, Welltrack Connect, Zencare, Findatopdoc, and whatever other list you can find that is specific to your niche.
  10. Some people insist on social media campaigns (instagram, linkedin, twitter, threads, etc). It's up to you.
  11. Some people go on podcast episodes, make youtube videos, and do other educational activities to build expertise so patients can come see you. It's up to you.
You'll get there. It will take time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 8 users
How long has your private practice been up and running? It's common for it to take around 3-6 months before you see your first patient.
  1. Meet with other psychiatrists in the area who are full who can give you their overflow.
  2. Meet with therapists in the area.
  3. Meet with the case worker for the IOP/PHP/RTF programs in your area to be on their referral list.
  4. Contact the program director for UCLA to be on the resident clinic referral list in case they want to discharge any patients to community providers for stability.
  5. Join SCPS and start going to their meetings/events to introduce yourself.
  6. Try joining the UCLA VCF and PCFA. There's an event in Nov that might be worthwhile going to and networking there.
  7. Make sure your office is updated on Google Maps, Apple Maps, Yelp, and all those other websites (vitals, doximity, etc).
  8. Join the Facebook groups: private practice, psychiatry network, therapists of west los angeles, los angeles psychologists and psychiatrists, if you're CAP then child psychiatry network.
  9. Be on the psychiatrist list for different associations, like IOCDF, MH Direct, Therapy Den, Welltrack Connect, Zencare, Findatopdoc, and whatever other list you can find that is specific to your niche.
  10. Some people insist on social media campaigns (instagram, linkedin, twitter, threads, etc). It's up to you.
  11. Some people go on podcast episodes, make youtube videos, and do other educational activities to build expertise so patients can come see you. It's up to you.
You'll get there. It will take time.
lol...I'm embarrassed to say my practice has been up and running for about a week. I guess I just envisioned people flocking in. All I hear about are long waitlists, etc.

As far as the 3-6 months before a patient comes in, I'm assuming thats if you are not taking insurance and straight cash?

I appreciate all of your suggestions. Thanks for that.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Lol, a week is nothing. People need time to know you exist. You can speed it up with all of clozareal's excellent suggestions. A huge part of early private practice is doing the legwork to get people in the door unless you already have a strong network in an area of high need. There are significant waitlists in many places, but filling your panel depends on people being able to refer to you and also being willing to take patients. You can probably fill very quickly if you're willing to take everyone who walks through the door. It can also take years if you're more selective about the types of patients you're willing to take.

If you're still struggling to get people through the door in 2-3 months, then come back for more advice. If you're doing even some of the things cloz suggested and networking then you should hopefully start seeing some influx in a month or two.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Although there's a nationwide shortage and psychiatrists usually fill up quickly this is not a homogenous issue. There are specific localities where there is no shortage.

This could be more of a local issue. I don't how the "market" is in L.A.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
What Whopper said ^^^^

Here is what I had for the first 6 months of my practice in my original location:
WeekConsultsFollow Ups
100
210
310
430
520
610
711
820
942
1052
1143
1263
1365
1473
1513
1662
1765
1842
1957
2047
2132
2206
2349
24310
2522
2629

Took time getting paneled with all the insurance.

I have since found that you only need to mail letters to therapists. They won't be a big referral source.

You need to mail to PCPs and then try to call their office manager, set up a meet and greet, feed their whole office.
When there, the PCPs are nice, pleasant, some questions etc, but the real person is the office manager or referral coordinator who keeps the list.

They want to know what insurance you take...

The rest is time, if you are in a saturated area.

My current location in middle of nowhere, most of the PCPs are so used to doing everything themselves very few refer. Despite the volume being here... its a resource mismatch. Go figure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Lol, a week is nothing. People need time to know you exist. You can speed it up with all of clozareal's excellent suggestions. A huge part of early private practice is doing the legwork to get people in the door unless you already have a strong network in an area of high need. There are significant waitlists in many places, but filling your panel depends on people being able to refer to you and also being willing to take patients. You can probably fill very quickly if you're willing to take everyone who walks through the door. It can also take years if you're more selective about the types of patients you're willing to take.

If you're still struggling to get people through the door in 2-3 months, then come back for more advice. If you're doing even some of the things cloz suggested and networking then you should hopefully start seeing some influx in a month or two.

Yeah people even knowing you exist is even a problem if you take insurance. Insurance companies are of course comically convoluted and can take months to even list you as in network (and will list you as "in network" months after you leave their network). People in your area probably don't even know you're there to refer to.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I was going to add that although I filled up quickly yeah those first 3 months where I had a lot of half days or even empty days were a pain in the ass. I've had several docs in specialties other than psychiatry tell me it took them over a year to fill up. Took me about 3 months. Add to that if I had any open slots afterwards it was usually cause of bad patients that needed to be terminated, or my own inexperience with not being able to keep on top of bad staff members.

Learning a few tricks like retaining good staff members, a no show fee, only taking referrals and making patients pay a $100 deposit (refundable after 3 visits or termination) chopped down no shows to less than 5 a week, with a normal no show per week being 0-1.

When you do fill up you're going to get a lot of bad patients. No I don't mean sick patients. I mean bad patients, such as they forgot their meetings, are rude, won't follow directions and blame you for it. I ended up terminating several dozen patients. E.g. no show without an excuse and refuses to pay the no show fee. They change their phone number and don't tell me, but expect me to use my psychic powers to know they changed their number. Such patients get terminated if nicely explained the rules and refuse to follow them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Having a private practice means running a business. You are providing a service and you need to market your services. That requires a lot of effort. You made zero effort so it is no surprise you don't have any patients. And it's only been a week! I had patients when I started my practice because I brought existing patients with me, told some patients I had recently seen in the hospital they could follow up in private practice, and already had an established reputation and existing referral sources. And it still was not easy. I'm 11 months into pp now and while I get on average about 2 inquiries a week, sometimes those inquiries are consistently inappropriate and don't land and other times I get a flurry of great patients. You can't just hang up a shingle and expect patients to come. There is no shortage of cash psychiatrists in LA. And even if there were, people need to be able to find you and choose you over other options because they believe you provide the 3 A's - availability, affability, and ability beyond the next person. Most people are going to prioritize one of those (often availability). there is also a 4th A that some patients care about too - affordability. I actually don't think it is that common for cash paying patients to select on price (I rarely get asked about lowering my fees), but most people will prefer to use their insurance if they can.

I'm assuming a doc taking insurance would get a lot more than 2 patients a week? I ask because I'm thinking of starting on my own and weighing insurance vs cash.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Might want to put a little more effort into advertising. Having a good location and connecting or dropping off a few cards with a few psychologists, PCPs that are really close by could help. Targeted marketing is a key. Think about your target audience and why they want to see you and then how they are going to find you. I found that broad networking is not very useful but early on I had a little time for that so did put some time into it.
 
I'm assuming a doc taking insurance would get a lot more than 2 patients a week? I ask because I'm thinking of starting on my own and weighing insurance vs cash.

In my area, if you take insurance, and especially Medicare (my patients are generally older), you would be full very quickly. Pretty much for any specialty, but if you had a peds/kids or gero focus, you'd have a waitlist several months long here in no time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I've slowly transitioned from hospital work to private practice. I write a ton of letters to therapists and PCP's, maybe one in ten result in a referral. Now that I'm 80 percent PP, I intend to start showing up at PCP offices. I've always had good luck with that.

Unfortunately the hospital I work at is on the other side of town so that social network has a muted effect.

Gotta start grinding away on your networking. I've only had a few patients who found me themselves, the great exception to that being Psychology Today.
 
  • Love
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I've slowly transitioned from hospital work to private practice. I write a ton of letters to therapists and PCP's, maybe one in ten result in a referral. Now that I'm 80 percent PP, I intend to start showing up at PCP offices. I've always had good luck with that.

Unfortunately the hospital I work at is on the other side of town so that social network has a muted effect.

Gotta start grinding away on your networking. I've only had a few patients who found me themselves, the great exception to that being Psychology Today.
Do you just show up to PCP offices unannounced and leave cards or ask to speak to an office manager?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
Do you just show up to PCP offices unannounced and leave cards or ask to speak to an office manager?
Call the office manager and set up a time when you can go and meet the doctors there. All we need is to put a face to a name and maybe chat for a few minutes.

You could set up a lunch at the office but not everyone goes to those.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Do you just show up to PCP offices unannounced and leave cards or ask to speak to an office manager?
I emailed usually and set up a time to chat with them. Now that I have enough patients, I often talk to the PCP to coordinate care in general and told them that I'm open for referrals. I'm doing this much less lately and the opposite is happening where PCP offices are reaching out to me now.

Having a private practice means running a business. You are providing a service and you need to market your services. That requires a lot of effort. You made zero effort so it is no surprise you don't have any patients. And it's only been a week! I had patients when I started my practice because I brought existing patients with me, told some patients I had recently seen in the hospital they could follow up in private practice, and already had an established reputation and existing referral sources. And it still was not easy. I'm 11 months into pp now and while I get on average about 2 inquiries a week, sometimes those inquiries are consistently inappropriate and don't land and other times I get a flurry of great patients. You can't just hang up a shingle and expect patients to come. There is no shortage of cash psychiatrists in LA. And even if there were, people need to be able to find you and choose you over other options because they believe you provide the 3 A's - availability, affability, and ability beyond the next person. Most people are going to prioritize one of those (often availability). there is also a 4th A that some patients care about too - affordability. I actually don't think it is that common for cash paying patients to select on price (I rarely get asked about lowering my fees), but most people will prefer to use their insurance if they can.
About half of my phone screens were hesitant about my price at the beginning. Now that I've raised my fees by about 50%, I have much less complaints. I also send my prices out before I call patients to avoid unnecessary calls.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
If you live in LA you gotta practice INTEGRATIVE HOLISTIC psychiatry! None of this bread and butter evidence based psychiatry.
 
  • Haha
  • Hmm
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
If you live in LA you gotta practice INTEGRATIVE HOLISTIC psychiatry! None of this bread and butter evidence based psychiatry.

Holistic, integrative, and interventional. Psychedelics included.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
If you live in LA you gotta practice INTEGRATIVE HOLISTIC psychiatry! None of this bread and butter evidence based psychiatry.
Sure I've given my kid 13 supplements, taken him out of school for SPECT and qEEGs, gave him CBD gummies with no purity standards but you are suggesting PROZAC for his depression and anxiety!?!?!?
 
  • Haha
  • Like
  • Okay...
Reactions: 7 users
Sure I've given my kid 13 supplements, taken him out of school for SPECT and qEEGs, gave him CBD gummies with no purity standards but you are suggesting PROZAC for his depression and anxiety!?!?!?

Unfortunately this is not limited to LA. I have an actively psychotic young man living in a group home right now whose grandmother literally delivers weed to him on a weekly basis. Ma'am, you are not making it more likely that your grandson is going to stop talking about how he's super secret army special forces fighting against the FDA and furries.
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Unfortunately this is not limited to LA. I have an actively psychotic young man living in a group home right now whose grandmother literally delivers weed to him on a weekly basis. Ma'am, you are not making it more likely that your grandson is going to stop talking about how he's super secret army special forces fighting against the FDA and furries.
Yours is beyond painful. I am (fortunately or unfortunately) not in LA and somehow exist not on a coast of this country, so I only run into family's like that about qannually. It is still quite the whirlwind for my brain to handle when it inevitably arises.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Sure I've given my kid 13 supplements, taken him out of school for SPECT and qEEGs, gave him CBD gummies with no purity standards but you are suggesting PROZAC for his depression and anxiety!?!?!?

I know the history of those drugs and big pharma just wants money! Everyone else I’ve given money for health reasons accepted my money begrudgingly because they’re not greedy like big pharma! And they’re holistic and integrative!
 
  • Haha
Reactions: 2 users
Some thoughts about taking commercial insurance:

1. You can negotiate. Just because they OFFER X amount for a given CPT code, doesn't mean you have to accept it. You need to know your local market to do this best. Know how many psychiatrists are within your city/metro area, identify the largest employers and find out what insurance(s) they offer, etc. Identify any large group practices (w mid-levels) or clinics that take commercial insurance and not, so you know your main competition.

2. Don't sign up for a bunch of insurances, instead do some legwork, call around, talk to colleagues, and figure out which insurers pay better, and start with the best paying AND STILL NEGOTIATE. They will almost always need you more than you need them. They likely will publish out of date "provider" directories, but a little digging will reveal it is full of bad info, retired providers, providers who left years ago, etc. It's a bit more legwork, but if you have the first few weeks "open", take that time and do the legwork because it will pay off when you go to negotiate.

3. Watch out for 3rd party companies that demand a discount up front for X insurance. What do you get for that discount, not a darn thing. Those companies are hired to lower the cost for the primary insurance company, and they keep a % of what they saved the primary insurer. They will often send misleading faxes saying they can get you paid quicker (there is always a disclaimer basically saying J/K!) or other BS. They literally exist to be a leech by slashing your reimbursements and taking a cut for doing nothing but asking for you to lower your rates. Any promise of "added assistance" is BS.

4. Accept that the beginning weeks and months will take awhile. Use that time to scout your competition, get to know the players, etc. If you really want to do it right, identify the top 3-5 largest employers and make a spreadsheet of their insurance offerings. I've actually targeted companies and then gone through their insurer's provider list to identify how many actual providers are part of an insurer's network. I know it sounds tedious, but trust me, it's valuable info. You can outsource the work for $20-$25/hr if you know people.

4b. If you have a BIG employer, you will likely get multiple inquiries in the beginning months from numerous of their employees. Instead of saying you don't take their (primary insurer), encourage them to contact their HR Director to complain about having a hard time finding a provider, and have them use your name as the provider they want to see. If they get a few of these and/or you get the RIGHT people complaining, the HR person can often make demands to the insurance provider about adding to their network. I did this with C-level inquiries a few times before, and literally had the C-level person tell the HR Director to "fix it", and then a senior person at the insurance company was contacting me and bending over backwards to keep the large employer happy. Unless I got 90% of my cash rate or better, I'd only offer a 1 off contract to see the C-level.

The great thing about C-level people is they talk to their peers, and you often can get some nice cash referrals because depending on the size of the company, they may want avoid using insurance to avoid having to disclose anything to their boards about their health/psych status. I know this sounds like a lot of effort, but some of the best connections I made were through working w C-level execs, partners at law firms, directors and dept chairs at same or rival institutions, etc. They have the $ and know the value of a true expert. They tell their friends, and then the friends call you. I've done this with professional athletes and orgs too. I'm not the "official" anything currently (teams often sell the rights to large med practices for $$$), but unofficially and without forking out 5-6 figures to be the "official partner" I see a range of players and sports because I'm trusted.

5. You can do "one off" contracts with insurance companies. You don't sign up for their panel, but you accept 1 patient on a specific agreement. You can test out the company and decide if they are worth engaging with more*.

You can "fill up" in weeks to months being on insurance panels, but unless you negotiated favorable rates, you've already shot yourself in the foot. It's better to get on 1-2 insurance plans at rates that are closer to your cash rate, or at least better than Medicare and better than the average insurer in your area. Don't waste your time with 5-6 panels. 1-2 to start, max.

*I did 1 off contacts for years with a few diff commercial insurance companies as a neuropsych bc they were desperate and I didn't want to be tied down to any more commercial providers. I contracted with two insurance plans (local R1 self-insured plan and BCBS) I'd usually get ~90% of my cash rate and I'd negotiate faster payments with max interest (usually capped by the state/insurance board) after the agreed upon timeframe runs up; this helps w places that like to drag their feet paying. It's a little diff for neuropsych because you get fewer visits but a bigger number, but the idea still works. Always leverage your scarcity and expertise (assuming you look good on paper).

Way longer than intended, but I have a report I'd really rather not write. :laugh:
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 8 users
Two more quick points, and then I have to go write my report.

6. Workers Comp is often not worth it as a psychiatrist, but it is very state dependent, so at least consider them because it could be a quick way to get busy, and they will have published rates you can look up to see if it's even worth considering. Be wary of Federal Workers Comp, bc they have all of the drawbacks of state WC, but with ADDED hoops for being Federal. Pay is rarely great for federal plans.

7. Consider EAP programs as Insurance-Lite, especially at white collar companies/firms (e.g. tech, law, VC, finance). Most EAPs may not pay top dollar, but they can be a good way to fill some slots for decent $, and they can often turn into cash pay if you target the right companies.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Top