Kicked out of research, what do I do?

[baratheonfire]

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[GiveMeThatMD]

What was the reason for rejection? Professors are typically pretty lenient, especially given the situation. Have you tried explaining what happened? That, or just light their hair on fire.

 

[bananafish94]

I don't think it will matter a whole lot if you don't get another research position. 8 months of research is fine.

 

[Lucca]

List it on the app, no rec from the professor would be fine if research isn't a focus of your app and you got enough out of it to convince people you know what science is like. Seems odd that you would get the boot when there was a very anomalous and excuse-able reason so probably wasn't the best professor to work with if that is the whole story.

 

[baratheonfire]

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[Nerdeka]

Don't get another position for 3 months.

 

[TC621]

Wow seems very unfortunate for you man... it's funny cause I came across your thread because you decided to act like a clown versus non native English speakers. I guess this is karma...
Eventually down the line when you become an MD(I'm not doubting you), just hold any stupid remarks that can come back to bite you in the future.

 

[P0ke]

You should've gone to the poster presentation while on a bunch of meds, hoping you wouldn't spring a leak. A poster would be significant in showing that you actually did something with your research and didn't just lolligag for 8 months.

 

[Tenk]

Gotta man (or woman) up if you wanna be a doctor. I once did a shift where between every patient I was in the bathroom either puking or pooping and was running a fever. You know what I did about it?

Worked.

 

[baratheonfire]

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[piii]

damn extreme stalking dude
also i was trolling there like mad months ago lol
people are different IRL and online

Maybe you should have spent all that time focused on the lab instead of trolling SDN?

 

[baratheonfire]

Maybe you should have spent all that time focused on the lab instead of trolling SDN?

maybe
I don't seem to recall denying responsibility for my errors

 

[Officer Farva]

I missed the mandatory Undergraduate Poster session last semester because I had food poisoning. I just asked my professor if I could continue this semester, and he said no. I was in that lab for 8 months, and am supposed to apply to med school this summer. What do I do? I'm trying my best to get another research position, but that will only be ~3 months of research by the time I apply. Not even sure if I'll get one.

Apply for an R01, start your own lab, and list that as an EC on your app.....Joking, he will understand.

 

[Goro]

Don't use the PI as a LOR writer.

Find another lab.

But a teaching moment: it takes some work to get kicked out of a lab....I suspect that there's more to the story, especially based upon OP's posting history.

 

[getdown]

And got a ton of patients sick? I understand it's part of the culture, but it's not really something to be proud of.

Easy to say for someone who's barely even started the process. Ever thought that these shifts are predetermined and it would be very hard to get someone to cover? So you let your colleagues just pick up the slack for you? Here's a little tip when you start residency. Don't call in sick. Come in and if you are that bad, they'll send you home.

 

[baratheonfire]

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[Nerdeka]

Easy to say for someone who's barely even started the process. Ever thought that these shifts are predetermined and it would be very hard to get someone to cover? So you let your colleagues just pick up the slack for you? Here's a little tip when you start residency. Don't call in sick. Come in and if you are that bad, they'll send you home.

?
My professors have told me not to come to class with a mild cold because someone in the class had a weakened immune system.

Can't even imagine being a sick doctor.. in a hospital.

 

[Erised Moon]

People here are being such asses. The person who posted was asking for advice, not cynical or self-righteous remarks. They feel ****ty enough without your help, so get off your high horses already....

 

[Tenk]

And got a ton of patients sick? I understand it's part of the culture, but it's not really something to be proud of.

Wear a mask and wash your hands.

Tada!

 

[Tenk]

I said I understand it's part of the culture, but I notice not one section of your reply talked about how being puking/diarrhea sick effects your patients.

I might have just started the process but I have a bit of experience working in teams in high risk situations. Guys who tried to push themselves when they were hurt or too sick put the whole squad in danger; and more importantly compromised the mission. "Manning up" because you're afraid of how others will perceive you or through some sort of delusion that you are irreplaceable (what will we ever do without the puking/****ting resident??) even when you're combat ineffective is the worst kind of selfishness. I spent 5 years fighting that attitude in Soldiers. What's even worse than a malingerer with the sniffles? A guy who is too proud to admit when he needs to take a knee.

I don't know how puking and pooping makes someone "combat ineffective" in medicine. I mean it's not like I blew my hand off or something. The reason I used that analogy is that was what the OP had said kept them from their presentation. My point was that in this field sometimes you have to power through and work because when you're done with residency (like I am), there is no backup. It's just you. So while you might not need 1 resident in a team of 7, you need the one attending in the team of one attending.

I agree with your point about the military. Having a weak link on a team puts a military team at risk. However, medicine is not the military. It is not even close to the military. This is not combat. This is just a job and you are your own team as the attending.

 

[mistafab]

I missed the mandatory Undergraduate Poster session last semester because I had food poisoning. I just asked my professor if I could continue this semester, and he said no. I was in that lab for 8 months, and am supposed to apply to med school this summer. What do I do? I'm trying my best to get another research position, but that will only be ~3 months of research by the time I apply. Not even sure if I'll get one.

I doubt OP is telling the whole story. I'm guessing the "missed poster session" has much more background. My vote is that OP never made the poster, so the PI was pissed off because the PI knew OP blew it off. The PI probably knew OP wasn't doing any work and made up some BS excuse. That is the only reason I can think of that a professor would just kick someone out of lab.

No hard feelings OP - but no pity for you from me.

 

[JustAPhD]

I doubt OP is telling the whole story. I'm guessing the "missed poster session" has much more background. My vote is that OP never made the poster, so the PI was pissed off because the PI knew OP blew it off. The PI probably knew OP wasn't doing any work and made up some BS excuse. That is the only reason I can think of that a professor would just kick someone out of lab.

No hard feelings OP - but no pity for you from me.

Likely the PI wanted to get rid of OP and this presented a reasonable excuse.

 

[baratheonfire]

I doubt OP is telling the whole story. I'm guessing the "missed poster session" has much more background. My vote is that OP never made the poster, so the PI was pissed off because the PI knew OP blew it off. The PI probably knew OP wasn't doing any work and made up some BS excuse. That is the only reason I can think of that a professor would just kick someone out of lab.

No hard feelings OP - but no pity for you from me.

I didn't ask for pity, I asked for advice. I've stated multiple times that it was my mistake and mine alone. And for the record, I did indeed make the poster, I just didn't attend the presentation. Not that you'd be convinced by me saying so, your mind is clearly made up.

Likely the PI wanted to get rid of OP and this presented a reasonable excuse.

Maybe, I don't know.

 

[DrDorianTurkleton]

I got a letter from a PI that I had been working with for ~4 months for my application. I don't think it will hurt if you have to do that but just make sure your other letters are up to snuff.

 

[giantswing]

It makes you ineffective because you're putting your patients at risk by exposing them to illness and, in all likelihood, not being anywhere close to your best mentally.

You're right, it's not the military and it's just a job. That's why you should just call one of your fellow attendings to cover. I promise they'll be sick sometime too and you can pay them back. I get that's it isn't easy, can make people think you're "weak", and inconveniences others but you can't honestly argue that it isn't the right thing to do.

From the Times:

"Hacking, febrile or racked with the sequelae of chronic illnesses, doctors who are sick have continued for generations to see their patients. Although published reports for over a decade have linked patient illnesses like the flu, whooping cough and resistant bacterial infections to sick health care workers, as many as 80 percent of physicians continue to work through their own ailments, even though they would have excused patients in the same condition."

"Now, a report in the current issue of The Journal of General Internal Medicine examines the impact of sick workers in health care. Anchoring their analysis with a description of a nursing home outbreak of norovirus gastroenteritis, an infection that causes nausea, vomiting and diarrhea, researchers from the University of California, San Francisco, address an issue that goes beyond the business school matter of worker productivity. They argue that in the health care setting what is important is that the decision to continue working while sick contradicts a core ethical principle of medicine: primum non nocere, or “First, do no harm.”

“The culture of medicine is so completely focused on self-sacrifice that when doctors come into work so sick they need intravenous fluids, it’s considered a badge of courage,” said Dr. Eric Widera, the study’s lead author and an assistant professor of geriatrics at the University of California, San Francisco. “No one is standing up for the patient and saying, ‘This is wrong.’ ”

Initially the nursing home infection described by Dr. Widera and his co-authors affected only one staff member and three patients. But over the course of less than two weeks it spread to an additional 22 staff members and 30 patients despite restrictive — but voluntary — measures like stricter hand hygiene and disinfecting procedures, limiting visitors, closing down the dining hall and suspending group activities and outings. Only after the local health department required sick employees to be medically cleared before returning to work was the outbreak finally controlled."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/14/health/views/14chen.html?_r=0

Thats cute.

You come to work as a resident even if that means your intestine falls out on the or floor.

This is the kind of culture where we tell our patients to get plenty of rest and eat halthy while pulling 24hour shifts and eat pizza.

 

[giantswing]

I understand it's part of the culture (and I've said that multiple times), but it's a terrible, unsafe, and toxic culture that the next generation of doctors should try to change.

maybe the next generation shouldnt be whiny pansies.

 

[wholeheartedly]

Thats cute.

You come to work as a resident even if that means your intestine falls out on the or floor.

This is the kind of culture where we tell our patients to get plenty of rest and eat halthy while pulling 24hour shifts and eat pizza.

The point wasn't that you don't come to work sick as a resident. The point was that the culture requiring you to do so is dumb and bad for patients. I work at a hospital and have for years. It's not just doctors but every other healthcare worker as well and it puts patients at risk. It's just not possible to prevent all possible exposures. My boss had to force people to stay home sick one year because everyone was getting norovirus and giving it to everyone else. He said I'd rather be down one or two people for a few days than have multiple people out everyday for a month because it's spreading all over.

Of course having worked nights, where you just don't call in because someone will have to replace you. I'm just as guilty as the next healthcare worker of showing up sick, miserable, and contagious as hell.

Still doesn't mean it isn't dumb and bad for patients.

 

[wholeheartedly]

Anyway, let's return back to the topic at hand.

OP, I agree with the others. You can list it and don't use him as a reference. That does seem a bit much, unless you just no showed without telling anyone. It sounds like there was something else going on (whether you were aware of it or not) and that was just the last straw for him. Or a million other things. But in any case this would be a very risky person to get a letter from.

As for whether you should start in a new lab, depends on your goals. Do you want to do research/go to a research heavy school? Then trying to get more research would be good, you might only have 3 mos by app time but it would be more by the time you'd potentially interview. If not, maybe just cut your losses and find something else to do.

 

[giantswing]

Incredible response. I loved a lot of things about my time in the military and overseas, but the dumb meathead mentality that put other people at risk was not one of them.

**** the patients but at least you're a real big MAN, right?

Love how you threw that military ref in there.

Just dont be the whiny med student on the floor, ok? If you want a cush lifestyle specialty, go for it, but dont be that med student who wants to change things when surgeons are working their butts off.

 

[Dr.Smexy]

Love how you threw that military ref in there.

Just dont be the whiny med student on the floor, ok? If you want a cush lifestyle specialty, go for it, but dont be that med student who wants to change things when surgeons are working their butts off.

Dude, take a chill pill and realize that you're old with an outdated mentality. My generation don't think puking, pooping and having your intestine "fall out" are badass and indications of responsibility...in fact we think the opposite. Like it or not the old timers of medicine are on their way to the exit door soon and the culture of medicine will in inevitably change in the future with the next crop of physicians. We will likely look back and laugh at how crazy you guys are for doing such things.

 

[baratheonfire]

Anyway, let's return back to the topic at hand.

OP, I agree with the others. You can list it and don't use him as a reference. That does seem a bit much, unless you just no showed without telling anyone. It sounds like there was something else going on (whether you were aware of it or not) and that was just the last straw for him. Or a million other things. But in any case this would be a very risky person to get a letter from.

As for whether you should start in a new lab, depends on your goals. Do you want to do research/go to a research heavy school? Then trying to get more research would be good, you might only have 3 mos by app time but it would be more by the time you'd potentially interview. If not, maybe just cut your losses and find something else to do.

Thanks for actually giving me some advice.

 

[mode7scaling]

Dude, take a chill pill and realize that you're old with an outdated mentality. My generation don't think puking, pooping and having your intestine "fall out" are badass and indications of responsibility...in fact we think the opposite. Like it or not the old timers of medicine are on their way to the exit door soon and the culture of medicine will in inevitably change in the future with the next crop of physicians. We will likely look back and laugh at how crazy you guys are for doing such things.

the problem i see with such working conditions is that lack of sleep is equivalent to being drunk and now you are playing with people's lives. no one should work beyond their working capability (whatever hours it is) in one day in such situations where you are responsible for life and death. these guys work 24 hours or so and then come back in a few hours once again. that is terrible and not something to be celebrated. i did this in my early 20s and was also "proud" but realized that i obviously did some damage to some patients at the time. at some points, i would hallucinate and see things on the charts or on the bed, etc.

 

[TC621]

Lol this thread got hijacked real quick. OP please change discussion title to something pertaining to the relevance of ascetic technique when making rounds in a hospital.