Kicked the eff out

[PatrickStar]

Still don't know if its a smart move returning to that Type-A cesspool that is SDN, but there's a share of wise ones on here, and I've decided that I've got nothing to lose. I obviously made a new name to protect me and my former school.

Started at a DO school in Aug 2011. Failed Anatomy first term and was put on probation. Failed Physio and Biochem second term and they gave me the boot. I was doing pharm research and tutoring local hs kids on the side, had only failed by a couple of %, and had a bout of medical issues, but the preclin committee wouldnt have it.

I stepped into a dark depression and had no clue what to do with my life. Considered law, engineering, business, but could only ever picture myself as a doc. Added some juicy stuff to the CV, but would prefer not to mention to remain anon.

My stats: 3.3 sGPA 3.6 cGPA (both undergrad of couse), 27Q. These were the stats that got me 2 us allo interviews, 5 osteo interviews, and 2 osteo acceptances (would have been more if i hadnt gotten into my top choices right away) back in 2010-11 cycle.

Do I even bother reapplying to DO schools, or should I just go straight to Carib/EU? I would honestly prefer not dealing with OMM again, but AMG>IMG for US residency spots. I'd like to practice in the US for sure.

I can't be the only soul stuck in this kind of mess.

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[deleted480308]

I would call a few admin depts anonymously and ask them. But for everyone reading this...if you fail a class and go on probation please cut off all you extracurriculars. Grades are your only job until you have your grades in order.

I hope it works out OP

 

[swamprat]

OP there is a medical student I think he/she is an OMS3 now that failed out and got back in.. bones or something was the username. As far as if you should go carib.. NO. Reading how bad it is on SDN to match is one thing but then seeing it first hand and talking to the lucky few that got through in person and listening to the stories of basically everyone they knew that graduated only to not match its not worth the debt and time esp since I doubt you would be able to hide ur previous dismissal. Also thats great you were doing things on the side but doubtful that its the reason you failed multiple classes and until you can figure out what that is you are just doomed to make the same mistakes.

 

[Makati2008]

OP there is a medical student I think he/she is an OMS3 now that failed out and got back in.. bones or something was the username. As far as if you should go carib.. NO. Reading how bad it is on SDN to match is one thing but then seeing it first hand and talking to the lucky few that got through in person and listening to the stories of basically everyone they knew that graduated only to not match its not worth the debt and time esp since I doubt you would be able to hide ur previous dismissal. Also thats great you were doing things on the side but doubtful that its the reason you failed multiple classes and until you can figure out what that is you are just doomed to make the same mistakes.

Agree with Mr. Doxy. Those things shouldn't make you fail. I had the deaths of 3 close relatives while in med. school and still managed to do well (As having a brand new baby girl in the mix and boards didn't help but that was totally my choice and no regrets)

So as he said, don't make excuses figure out your weaknesses first then correct them and attempt another shot at school or maybe Pharmacy since you like Pharm?

Also with your history of "depression" the carribbean would be the worst place for you to go because if anything happens to you they see you as a $ and once the $ is gone your worthless to them.

 

[Balantidiumcoli]

I would honestly prefer not dealing with OMM again, but AMG>IMG for US residency spots.

Is it really that bad? I have no love for it either but I'd like to think it's something I could grin and bare if I had to. But you aren't the first person I've seen write something like this. :/

 

[gyngyn]

In 30 years in this business I know of no success stories that start with your history. I would place your overall chances at vanishingly small. Sorry. I trust you will find a way to be of service that maximizes your strengths and is forgiving of weakness.

 

[peppy]

Your best bet would probably be to try to talk to this guy and see if he has any advice:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=665422
He's been in a fairly similar situation (kicked out DO, and ended up getting accepted to a different DO program). He has his email address in his profile if you want to talk to him.

I would definitely say that if you can get into a DO program then that's your best bet in terms of job prospects as well as being more likely to be successful there. The Caribbean schools are designed to weed out people. I think if you tried to go to a Caribb school you'd probably just end up getting kicked out again.

 

[PatrickStar]

Is it really that bad? I have no love for it either but I'd like to think it's something I could grin and bare if I had to. But you aren't the first person I've seen write something like this. :/

It's not terribly bad and i did well in it. im a hands on person, so it worked for me. some of the stuff definitely works too, but others just felt like i was doing voodoo magic. i cant be passionate about something i dont fully believe in. coupled with my struggles with anatomy, i had trouble memorizing tenderpoint locations, etc.

So as he said, don't make excuses figure out your weaknesses first then correct them and attempt another shot at school or maybe Pharmacy since you like Pharm?

Also with your history of "depression" the carribbean would be the worst place for you to go because if anything happens to you they see you as a $ and once the $ is gone your worthless to them.

no pharm for me. i refuse to be stuck at a grocery store pushing pills. definitely considered it, but if i am to remain in the health field, it will be as a doc. not to sound arrogant or anything.

the carib appeals to me because of the isolation. i made the mistake of going to medschool 1.0 in my hometown, where i was easily tempted to hangout with burnout high school buddies and sit down for hours on end for dinner at the family residence.

im not trying to make excuses, just identify why i sucked at the first attempt. but you can bet i wont be volunteering, doing research, and tutoring the next time im in school!

 

[Golding]

I roomed with a guy who went to the Caribbean after failing out of a US allo med school. He had failed a significant class in the Caribbean and managed to convince their review committee to not kick him out of school there too.

If you are able to genuinely fix the reasons you failed, the Caribbean is always there as an act of last resort. But like people have warned here, you can easily fall prey to the same problems you did before. The only difference will be that in the Caribbean, you will be geographically isolated from all of your support systems. If you fail there, you'll have less places to run.

 

[PatrickStar]

In 30 years in this business I know of no success stories that start with your history. I would place your overall chances at vanishingly small. Sorry. I trust you will find a way to be of service that maximizes your strengths and is forgiving of weakness.

wow, you sound just like a member of the panel that dismissed me...are you sure you weren't there?! i appreciate the honesty and good intention, but what you said makes me want to hope the Mayans are right about tomorrow! In my down time I've had exposure to other "way to be of service" and I can tell you that as long as I breathe, I will want to be a doctor. I'm just trying to be optimistic. I personally know two Carib grads in my city, OBGYN and FM (its a big US city, not some rural hicktown) and they are doing just fine, and continue to recommend me their school.

Your best bet would probably be to try to talk to this guy and see if he has any advice:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=665422
He's been in a fairly similar situation (kicked out DO, and ended up getting accepted to a different DO program). He has his email address in his profile if you want to talk to him.

I would definitely say that if you can get into a DO program then that's your best bet in terms of job prospects as well as being more likely to be successful there. The Caribbean schools are designed to weed out people. I think if you tried to go to a Caribb school you'd probably just end up getting kicked out again.

thanks for the link! thoroughly enjoyed Bones's story and felt normal again knowing that I'm not the only one, and success is possible with hard work. I may contact him...

The only difference will be that in the Caribbean, you will be geographically isolated from all of your support systems. If you fail there, you'll have less places to run.

I consider my former "support systems" to have been a part of the reason I failed in the first place, as long as we're talking about clingy asian families and burnout stoner friends. I have no problem leaving that behind and living in isolation for a couple of years. My new "support system"? The kick in the ass I got after being dismissed.

 

[kindasorta]

Even if you get in somewhere else, you're gonna have a hell of a time getting residency interviews. Especially in light of the medical version of the fiscal cliff that is looming with the boatload of new grads coming into the mix.

I'd seriously consider a different career.

 

[dragonfly99]

Nobody here has mentioned going back to your old school and groveling (trying to get them to let you back in). Honestly that is probably your best option. You need to show them your maturity, that this is the one and only thing you want to do, and that you won't get sucked into family issues, or be distracted by "friends" who are not helping you to succeed. You need to show some responsibility...but I'm not from a clingy Asian family so I know there are other issues with that. It seems like you do have at least some insight into what went wrong but I don't see that you know what to do to fix it, necessarily. Just being isolated on some Caribbean island isn't going to necessarily help your odds of success - you would be away from your family and distractions of friends, but you would have less academic support than you had @your DO school, in all likelihood. And when you applied to residency you would have the double black mark of being a Caribbean grad and having been booted from a US school. It seems like you are just looking for the easy way out again...

 

[jakeislove]

People are always yelling "The sky is falling for medicine!" and Carrib people stink. Those opinions will never change and shouldn't factor into anyone's decision.

The real issue is OP's ownership of whatever reasons that led to needing another school. If it's something that's really been addressed and changed, finding another way to serve people may work out.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

We just had a PD for a residency in Michigan speak at RVU, and depending on the school you go to, you will be ok for residencies, AUC and SGU have purchased residency slots for their students, and while they aren't in the greatest spots, a residency is a residency. My word of caution is this, if you can't pass at a DO school here, what makes you think you will pass at a carib school where they offer no assistance? I am not saying you failed because of inability, I am just saying you need to think about it very carefully. You made a lot of excuses in your post about why you failed, and if you failed anatomy, why didn't you feel it would be important to quit any side work and focus on studying or ask for help? You won't receive any assistance in the carib, and they will happily take your money and send you packing, leaving you with even more debt than you already have....

Good luck to you OP, and I hope you find success in whichever path you choose

 

[235009]

AUC and SGU have purchased residency slots for their students, and while they aren't in the greatest spots, a residency is a residency.

what?!

 

[peppy]

Purchased residency slots? Are you sure you're not thinking of how some of these schools pay for clinical rotations for their students?
Now that the match has mostly eliminated pre-matches, I don't see how a Carib school could buy residency spots.
Since MD schools and DO schools have been increasing their seats so much over the last few years, I definitely think staying in the US at a DO school is a much safer option than going to the Carib.
I'm not in a particularly competitive residency, but I know my residency has been getting more selective about what foreign grads they will grant interviews to over the last couple of years because of the increased competition for residencies.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Nope, we were told by a PD from one of MSUs residencies that the Carib schools are PURCHASING residency slots. Basically because the feds won't increase slots, they are paying for them. Because they are paying for them, it means they don't have to enter the match, and can directly stick their students into those hospitals...

 

[Total180]

Nope, we were told by a PD from one of MSUs residencies that the Carib schools are PURCHASING residency slots. Basically because the feds won't increase slots, they are paying for them. Because they are paying for them, it means they don't have to enter the match, and can directly stick their students into those hospitals...

So these residency spots are actually new residency slots totally funded by Caribbean schools? I would imagine if that is the case, they wouldn't come close to being able to pay for a spot for all their students...I wonder if they would even be able to make a dent in the amount they would need to make up the difference when/if they get cast out completely.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

I cannot answer that, I can tell you (based on above MSU guy) that there are still plenty of residencies that take FMG MDs over US DOs... Which is super not cool... additionally, they may not be able to make a dent, but they are helping guarantee their students have spots...

 

[Total180]

I cannot answer that, I can tell you (based on above MSU guy) that there are still plenty of residencies that take FMG MDs over US DOs... Which is super not cool... additionally, they may not be able to make a dent, but they are helping guarantee their students have spots...

Hm. It's an interesting move for sure. Obviously no one can say for sure what is going to happen with residencies in the next few years, but these Carib schools are definitely not going down without a fight. It seems as though they are really being proactive and doing everything they can to help their students not get screwed over. Honestly, I don't have anything against the Carib schools...people that can make it through there are dedicated students for sure. It will be interesting to see how things play out.

P.S. Prncess I am going to Breckenridge next week, I am super excited

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

LUCKY!! I don't have any money to drive up there right now, wish I did!!

Yeah, if you can make it through school with no help, no family, etc... Good for you, if you can score high on the USMLE to boot, even better... Just kind of sucks the way things are playing out...

 

[Bones DO]

wow, you sound just like a member of the panel that dismissed me...are you sure you weren't there?! i appreciate the honesty and good intention, but what you said makes me want to hope the Mayans are right about tomorrow! In my down time I've had exposure to other "way to be of service" and I can tell you that as long as I breathe, I will want to be a doctor. I'm just trying to be optimistic. I personally know two Carib grads in my city, OBGYN and FM (its a big US city, not some rural hicktown) and they are doing just fine, and continue to recommend me their school.



thanks for the link! thoroughly enjoyed Bones's story and felt normal again knowing that I'm not the only one, and success is possible with hard work. I may contact him...



I consider my former "support systems" to have been a part of the reason I failed in the first place, as long as we're talking about clingy asian families and burnout stoner friends. I have no problem leaving that behind and living in isolation for a couple of years. My new "support system"? The kick in the ass I got after being dismissed.

Definitely far from alone, OP. I've heard from just over 70 people in this situation over the last few years and 90% were from DO institutions. About half found their way back into school, most state-side. Others went onto PhD programs in sciences, clinical psychology or pharm.

In response to the Ob-Gyn's post re: no success coming from such a history, I was told a story in one of my interviews about a student who failed completely out of school because he couldn't pass the cardio/phys block. He came back a few years later, did well, and became a cardiologist. Moral: work hard and make your weakness your strength.

The first thing you have to do is take a long objective look at yourself and what happened and isolate the main causes. For most people (myself included) it was a particular subject or two that proved disproportionately difficult. Take courses in this subject while working a healthcare related research job. No matter how far you have to travel or how bad the pay is, the recommendations from PI's and getting your name on some publications pays major dividends both in re-admission and helping you repair the blemish of being booted once to residency PD's.

Next open a dialogue with as many school admissions departments that will reply to your emails/phone calls. Tell them what happened in its entirety (make no excuses here, explain where YOU went wrong), your plan (once you formulate one) and update them on a semi-regular basis as to your progress (I did this every 6-8 weeks). Apply THIS year to those schools that are responsive just to put a face to the name. The ones that are really willing to consider you will interview you out of curiosity and to assess your dedication ...I had a few interviews the same academic year I was dismissed in March and April. The following year, after I had remediated myself, all of those schools accepted me. I was later told that they like to interview people in this situation who are determined to re-enter medical school because they fully understand what they're getting into, something most first time applicants do not.

Last be humble, accept responsibility for what happened, keep your head up and be ready the long-hall. Good luck!

 

[Bones DO]

Still don't know if its a smart move returning to that Type-A cesspool that is SDN, but there's a share of wise ones on here, and I've decided that I've got nothing to lose. I obviously made a new name to protect me and my former school.

Started at a DO school in Aug 2011. Failed Anatomy first term and was put on probation. Failed Physio and Biochem second term and they gave me the boot. I was doing pharm research and tutoring local hs kids on the side, had only failed by a couple of %, and had a bout of medical issues, but the preclin committee wouldnt have it.

I stepped into a dark depression and had no clue what to do with my life. Considered law, engineering, business, but could only ever picture myself as a doc. Added some juicy stuff to the CV, but would prefer not to mention to remain anon.

My stats: 3.3 sGPA 3.6 cGPA (both undergrad of couse), 27Q. These were the stats that got me 2 us allo interviews, 5 osteo interviews, and 2 osteo acceptances (would have been more if i hadnt gotten into my top choices right away) back in 2010-11 cycle.

Do I even bother reapplying to DO schools, or should I just go straight to Carib/EU? I would honestly prefer not dealing with OMM again, but AMG>IMG for US residency spots. I'd like to practice in the US for sure.

I can't be the only soul stuck in this kind of mess.

US >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> IMG esp 5-6 years from now. Stay here if at all possible. OMM is a small price to pay imho.

 

[LovelyBRass]

I cannot answer that, I can tell you (based on above MSU guy) that there are still plenty of residencies that take FMG MDs over US DOs... Which is super not cool... additionally, they may not be able to make a dent, but they are helping guarantee their students have spots...

I don't think residencies take US IMGs over US DOs (unless they can't interpret a COMLEX score?). But, there are plenty of residencies (esp those outside the match) that take FMGs* over any US doc because they're already doctors who know what they're doing a heck of a lot more than any glorified US med student (in other words, PGY-1s), they're cheap labor, and don't demand protected learning time and conferences and attendings that teach, like us no-good US grads lol

*not US IMG

But I call bs on the whole buying residency spots thing anyway until someone posts a link or personal experience or brochure or something.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Ok, like I said, it is what he stated. He also said the person who took over the residency he used to run takes more US-IMGs than DOs... The Carib schools have money, and someone in another thread posted that SGU (I believe) gave a hospital in Queens ~100mil over the next X yrs to guarantee their students access....

 

[235009]

Ok, like I said, it is what he stated. He also said the person who took over the residency he used to run takes more US-IMGs than DOs... The Carib schools have money, and someone in another thread posted that SGU (I believe) gave a hospital in Queens ~100mil over the next X yrs to guarantee their students access....

yea, there was a new york times article about carib schools paying for clerkship spots in new york hospitals ....maybe you (and whoever claimed they were buying residency spots) are confusing that with the carib schools paying for clinical rotation spots

 

[LovelyBRass]

Ok, like I said, it is what he stated. He also said the person who took over the residency he used to run takes more US-IMGs than DOs... The Carib schools have money, and someone in another thread posted that SGU (I believe) gave a hospital in Queens ~100mil over the next X yrs to guarantee their students access....

The 100mil thing has to do with caribs paying NYC schools to take their third and fourth years for clerkships. You can read about it here: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/05/nyregion/05grenada.html?pagewanted=all

But back to possibly paying for residencies, is this the same as paying for it? http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/05/n...t-georges-university-medical-school.html?_r=0

It appears that NYC's HHC has come to an agreement with SGU where SGU will provide scholarships to select students over the next few years and in exchange, the student must work for the HHC in primary care fields, working with underserved populations. I suppose that's sort of like buying residencies, as SGU is funding the tuition, and the students are sort of guaranteed residencies? Have I completely misinterpreted this? lol

 

[IslandStyle808]

The buying of residencies by caribbean schools is all new news to me.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Again, MSU guy specifically stated they're buying residency slots that don't enter the match... and personally, it wouldn't surprise me

 

[DrMidlife]

We just had a PD for a residency in Michigan speak at RVU, and depending on the school you go to, you will be ok for residencies, AUC and SGU have purchased residency slots for their students, and while they aren't in the greatest spots, a residency is a residency.

Could you just confirm for us that you know the difference between a rotation and a residency?

SGU bought rotations. Those happen in the 3rd/4th year of med school. Not residency.

There are some privately funded residencies, but you can't just "buy" them from a hospital, you have to go through the accreditation process, which is fairly public and takes years. See acgme.org.

Funding for regular US residencies is $100k/yr, subsidized by Medicare (link). Say it costs $300k for a single primary care residency, or even just $150k, and that eats up more than one student's 4 years of tuition at a Carib school. Hard to run a biz like that. Meanwhile, Carib school class sizes at graduation are around 200. (Class sizes begin at 400, which is the actual reason to avoid Carib: 50% flunk out rate.)

Best of luck to you.

 

[LovelyBRass]

Could you just confirm for us that you know the difference between a rotation and a residency?

SGU bought rotations. Those happen in the 3rd/4th year of med school. Not residency.

There are some privately funded residencies, but you can't just "buy" them from a hospital, you have to go through the accreditation process, which is fairly public and takes years. See acgme.org.

Funding for regular US residencies is $100k/yr, subsidized by Medicare (link). Say it costs $300k for a single primary care residency, or even just $150k, and that eats up more than one student's 4 years of tuition at a Carib school. Hard to run a biz like that. Meanwhile, Carib school class sizes at graduation are around 200. (Class sizes begin at 400, which is the actual reason to avoid Carib: 50% flunk out rate.)

Best of luck to you.

Why is no one reading my article. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/05/n...ith-st-georges-university-medical-school.html

 

[gettheleadout]

Why is no one reading my article. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/05/n...ith-st-georges-university-medical-school.html

The article isn't clear at all. It never once refers to residency positions, only that SGU is giving tuition scholarships to NY applicants in exchange for a commitment to serve in primary care in NY after graduation. In fact, the CityDoctors website specifically says "as an attending" which to me implies that this is post-residency and that said residency must be completed external to this program.

Now will you listen to everyone telling you you can't just privately fund residency spots that the ACGME doesn't accredit?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile

 

[DrMidlife]

Why is no one reading my article. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/05/n...ith-st-georges-university-medical-school.html

I read that last April. SGU is paying for scholarships, not residencies, and this is a big fat PR move to protect rotations for SGU students.

If you google "family medicine accelerated programs" you'll find similar deals by mainland MD and DO schools where the student is required to do an FM residency. Students have to get that residency through the match just like everybody else.

Here are a couple more articles on residencies and things that happen outside the match. tl;dr: there's a crackdown.

All-In Policy: "Beginning with the 2013 Main Residency Match, any program that participates in The Match must register and attempt to fill all of its positions through The Match or another national matching plan." http://www.nrmp.org/allinpolicyexceptionsstatement.pdf

"Out-of-Match Residency Offers: The Possible Extent and Implications of Prematching in Graduate Medical Education" http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2951768/

 

[DrMidlife]

Why is no one reading my article. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/05/n...ith-st-georges-university-medical-school.html

Here's more on that deal: http://www.citydoctors.com/ny/hhc/eligibility.php

Basically these NY hospitals created their own NHSC sites.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

DrMidlife, I'm not an idiot. I know that a rotation is school and a residency is GME, would you like me to refer to them as GME slots instead? Don't be so insulting. The PD SPECIFICALLY stated RESIDENCY/GME NON-MATCHED slots... For the love of whichever almighty you prefer, that's what he said.

 

[gettheleadout]

DrMidlife, I'm not an idiot. I know that a rotation is school and a residency is GME, would you like me to refer to them as GME slots instead? Don't be so insulting. The PD SPECIFICALLY stated RESIDENCY/GME NON-MATCHED slots... For the love of whichever almighty you prefer, that's what he said.

Sooooo about your article...


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile

 

[DrMidlife]

DrMidlife, I'm not an idiot. I know that a rotation is school and a residency is GME, would you like me to refer to them as GME slots instead? Don't be so insulting. The PD SPECIFICALLY stated RESIDENCY/GME NON-MATCHED slots... For the love of whichever almighty you prefer, that's what he said.

C'mon now. Think, read, comprehend. Don't just repeat what you hear. If you can point me to any evidence, any at all, that what you heard is reality, I'll be delighted to learn things I don't yet know.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

I never said that I had anything other than what the PD stated. I have made that abundantly clear. I even said, take it or leave it, but personally, I wouldn't put it past a carib school to do so...

 

[Bones DO]

This has gotten a tad off topic... Maybe the PD miss spoke? Was this an aoa or acgme pd?

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

AOA... and yes... yes it has... He may have, I cannot be sure, but he said it more than once... sooooo hard to say...

 

[gethscout]

AOA... and yes... yes it has... He may have, I cannot be sure, but he said it more than once... sooooo hard to say...

nice. another thread derailed by princess buttercup's specious drivel. didn't you used to post in the Carib section and were accepted to a Carib top 4? funny how you talk trash about Carib MD schools when RVU-COM pretty much the next generation of "offshore" medical schools.

 

[Law2Doc]

This has gotten a tad off topic... Maybe the PD miss spoke? Was this an aoa or acgme pd?

Either the PD misspoke, was confused or you misheard. I think these are the three possibilities we have to run with. There is no mechanism to "buy" residencies, and as suggested above, offshore schools would have to start charging another $200k a year in tuition to make doing so feasible even if it were legal. There were a few fiascos a few years back where rich families tried to endow hospitals with millions in exchange for those hospitals "finding" a family member a previously unfunded competitive residency (i believe one was radiology at a Cali program) slot outside of the match. The rules got a lot tighter after backlash from these wealthy families trying to buy a slot.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

If all of that is true why did he specifically state that these residency slots won't be put into the match because they will be filled directly with the school's students?

 

[Stixman28]

I did my OB/GYN clerkship at a community hospital which has family med, internal med and ob gyn residencies slots, all within the match. The PD of ob gyn used these precise words in a conversation we had: "These Caribbean schools are practically paying us to take their students."

There could be some other types of payment avenues which are already being employed. And just for full disclosure, I would say 3/4 of the obgyn residency were Caribbean grads, including the entire intern class.

 

[Bones DO]

I did my OB/GYN clerkship at a community hospital which has family med, internal med and ob gyn residencies slots, all within the match. The PD of ob gyn used these precise words in a conversation we had: "These Caribbean schools are practically paying us to take their students."

There could be some other types of payment avenues which are already being employed. And just for full disclosure, I would say 3/4 of the obgyn residency were Caribbean grads, including the entire intern class.

I guess he didn't miss speak...

 

[Law2Doc]

I did my OB/GYN clerkship at a community hospital which has family med, internal med and ob gyn residencies slots, all within the match. The PD of ob gyn used these precise words in a conversation we had: "These Caribbean schools are practically paying us to take their students."

There could be some other types of payment avenues which are already being employed. And just for full disclosure, I would say 3/4 of the obgyn residency were Caribbean grads, including the entire intern class.

It's called exaggeration. Saying they are "practically" paying us really means there is no binding obligation. That one word changes the meaning from that of a contract to simply hyperbole. Is this thus kosher? Not really. Did the program in the past probably err on the side of taking a few more Caribbean students? Perhaps.

But now that programs have to be "all in" if any at a hospital are using the match, and given the fact that the number of US grads is rapidly increasing, this kind of agreement becomes more tenuous. Any whiff of an offshore school paying to get it's grads a higher match rate could get these community hospitals barred from the match for all their programs. So I doubt we will see much of this going forward. So no, not buying it. The doors are swinging shut on these arrangements.

Rotations on the other hand are a different story, Caribbean programs do certainly fund community hospitals to create these for them, and it's a nice cash cow for a lot of community hospitals, a practice that will continue as long as offshore folks still manage to subsequently match.

 

[gravitywave]

It's called exaggeration. Saying they are "practically" paying us really means there is no binding obligation. That one word changes the meaning from that of a contract to simply hyperbole. Is this thus kosher? Not really. Did the program in the past probably err on the side of taking a few more Caribbean students? Perhaps.

But now that programs have to be "all in" if any at a hospital are using the match, and given the fact that the number of US grads is rapidly increasing, this kind of agreement becomes more tenuous. Any whiff of an offshore school paying to get it's grads a higher match rate could get these community hospitals barred from the match for all their programs. So I doubt we will see much of this going forward. So no, not buying it. The doors are swinging shut on these arrangements.

Rotations on the other hand are a different story, Caribbean programs do certainly fund community hospitals to create these for them, and it's a nice cash cow for a lot of community hospitals, a practice that will continue as long as offshore folks still manage to subsequently match offshore schools can still manage to get students to pay them tuition money.

fixed, otherwise agree

 

[bopper]

So why wasn't failing Anatomy enough kick in the pants to change your habits?

 

[Medstart108]

wow, you sound just like a member of the panel that dismissed me...are you sure you weren't there?! i appreciate the honesty and good intention, but what you said makes me want to hope the Mayans are right about tomorrow! In my down time I've had exposure to other "way to be of service" and I can tell you that as long as I breathe, I will want to be a doctor. I'm just trying to be optimistic. I personally know two Carib grads in my city, OBGYN and FM (its a big US city, not some rural hicktown) and they are doing just fine, and continue to recommend me their school.



thanks for the link! thoroughly enjoyed Bones's story and felt normal again knowing that I'm not the only one, and success is possible with hard work. I may contact him...



I consider my former "support systems" to have been a part of the reason I failed in the first place, as long as we're talking about clingy asian families and burnout stoner friends. I have no problem leaving that behind and living in isolation for a couple of years. My new "support system"? The kick in the ass I got after being dismissed.

I would only recommend the Caribbean as a last option, but it does look like a ok option for you. I'm actually a medical student in the UK who wants to practice in the US so i do know a little bit about IMG matching. The info i hear is that it will get harder over the coming years unless Congress passes a bill to increase residency spots. New MD and DO schools have opened up in recent years to achieve the 30% increase in medical students target set out by the AAMC in 2006.

In 2015/6 the AAMC predicts that 1st year US medical students will equal residency spots so by 2019/20 there will be no spots for IMGs. However, if you matriculate this coming year you will probably graduate by 2017/8 so it will not be without hope. Not to mention that it is possible Congress no matter how debt ridden the country is, may pass a bill. Increasing residency spots isn't only in IMG interest it is also in AMG interests because it would increase the number of competitive specialties as well, so the medical lobby is working on it.

You know 2 caribbean grads but remember they graduated and matched earlier not in 2017. It will be harder in 2017 and studying in the caribbean is by no means an easy task. It is literally a huge and difficult race not to mention expensive, but if you really believe you have changed and are ready to tackle medical school take the opportunity. Keep in mind however, if you fail there will be no one to blame but yourself. The caribbean doesn't discriminate much when accepting, but it does with allowing you to graduate (they want high match rates to show off) and certainly US prog directors do discriminate.