LECOM-Erie vs KP NSU COM Internal Medicine Path

[heat2006]

I recently was accepted to both LECOM-Erie and Nova Southeastern in Florida! I'm hoping to go into internal medicine and pursue cardiology sub-speciality. However, I am truly stuck between both schools. LECOM has better "ratings" and pass rates, but the rotation sites are a tad bit weaker. NOVA has declining pass rates, but a tad bit better rotation sites and research opportunities. I've heard both schools don't have the best administration. I would appreciate any advice on which school is better long term for an internal medicine residency and cardiology sub-speciality (obv this path can change once i start med school). Thanks!

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[Dr Meow]

I vote LECOM.

 

[DO2015CA]

LECOM. No comparison. Idk about nova having the better rotations. From what I’ve read on here, they are losing some of the better rotations to the MD program. Dunno if that turned out to be true. DO is DO with university IM programs that will help you match cardio so go to the cheaper one which is LECOM.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

NOVA. They actually have good associations with Broward Medical Center which actually has a Cardio program. They generally have pretty good rotations as well.

Medical school doesn't really matter. It's all about Pathoma, sketchy, first aid, uworld until year 3 when rotations matter. Erie also is an attendence requiring hell. NOVA from what I understand has rotations it will set up for you. Where as Erie makes you set it up yourself.

Also for your sanity, South Florida is a hell of a better place to live than Erie.

That being said Nova will be more expensive. But I would not even have given this a second thought.

 

[lessupsetSHstudent]

NOVA. They actually have good associations with Broward Medical Center which actually has a Cardio program. They generally have pretty good rotations as well.

Medical school doesn't really matter. It's all about Pathoma, sketchy, first aid, uworld until year 3 when rotations matter. Erie also is an attendence requiring hell. NOVA from what I understand has rotations it will set up for you. Where as Erie makes you set it up yourself.

Also for your sanity, South Florida is a hell of a better place to live than Erie.

That being said Nova will be more expensive. But I would not even have given this a second thought.

Erie has PBL which requires far less attendance and a ton of self-directed study. Erie has core sites and a (low quality but at least extant) teaching hospital that a subset of students are placed at. Other core sites usually have 1 or more residency affiliated with them. LECOM sets up almost all of your 3rd year rotations for you, and some of your 4th year. It is a good mix of self-scheduling as far as logistics/work goes (above the average for DO schools from everything I have heard and read), but really pretty frustrating with regards to lack of support and flexibility for scheduling away rotations. It is false that they make you set most rotation stuff up yourself.

LECOM students have had better match and/or placement rates than NOVA students in the recent past. LECOM students are sometimes well regarded by regional residenices (surprising to me) in non-competitive specialties. I suspect there is less of an insane competition for regional residency spots and rotations sites in this region as compared to South Florida. What I am getting at is that outcomes are better at LECOM than at NOVA and you have a better safety net for residency, because there are many regional residencies in non-competitive specialties. That is worth quite a bit of potential additional suffering in my opinion.

South Florida has sun and beaches and warmth (all of which are preferable to Erie) but it is also expensive and has potentially lower health literacy than Erie, which is A) remarkable and B) a huge drawback. Florida is also in a political climate that is potentially more polarizing than PA. Erie does have skiing nearby (low quality... but present) and is equidistant from several cities that are worth visiting at least once. It has a great state park on the lake as well. It is getting a climbing gym. I do not like Erie but I am not at all convinced that South Florida is any less of a hellscape for some people.

Given better outcomes and likely savings of 80K+, if one is neutral about the locations, or at least can find time away from the sun tolerable, LECOM is an obvious choice. I wouldn't recommend attending a DO program unless one is interested in FM, community IM, or peds.

 

[Dr Meow]

NOVA. They actually have good associations with Broward Medical Center which actually has a Cardio program. They generally have pretty good rotations as well.

Medical school doesn't really matter. It's all about Pathoma, sketchy, first aid, uworld until year 3 when rotations matter. Erie also is an attendence requiring hell. NOVA from what I understand has rotations it will set up for you. Where as Erie makes you set it up yourself.

Also for your sanity, South Florida is a hell of a better place to live than Erie.

That being said Nova will be more expensive. But I would not even have given this a second thought.

n=1. for me, I study 15+ hours a day (class + study).
Location doesn't matter because 99% of the time outside of class, I'm in the study room.

But yeah, I did hear Erie is bad with rotations.....that's something to consider.
Especially since with step 1 PF, rotations matters more.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Erie has PBL which requires far less attendance and a ton of self-directed study. Erie has core sites and a (low quality but at least extant) teaching hospital that a subset of students are placed at. Other core sites usually have 1 or more residency affiliated with them. LECOM sets up almost all of your 3rd year rotations for you, and some of your 4th year. It is a good mix of self-scheduling as far as logistics/work goes (above the average for DO schools from everything I have heard and read), but really pretty frustrating with regards to lack of support and flexibility for scheduling away rotations. It is false that they make you set most rotation stuff up yourself.

LECOM students have had better match and/or placement rates than NOVA students in the recent past. LECOM students are sometimes well regarded by regional residenices (surprising to me) in non-competitive specialties. I suspect there is less of an insane competition for regional residency spots and rotations sites in this region as compared to South Florida. What I am getting at is that outcomes are better at LECOM than at NOVA and you have a better safety net for residency, because there are many regional residencies in non-competitive specialties. That is worth quite a bit of potential additional suffering in my opinion.

South Florida has sun and beaches and warmth (all of which are preferable to Erie) but it is also expensive and has potentially lower health literacy than Erie, which is A) remarkable and B) a huge drawback. Florida is also in a political climate that is potentially more polarizing than PA. Erie does have skiing nearby (low quality... but present) and is equidistant from several cities that are worth visiting at least once. It has a great state park on the lake as well. It is getting a climbing gym. I do not like Erie but I am not at all convinced that South Florida is any less of a hellscape for some people.

Given better outcomes and likely savings of 80K+, if one is neutral about the locations, or at least can find time away from the sun tolerable, LECOM is an obvious choice. I wouldn't recommend attending a DO program unless one is interested in FM, community IM, or peds.

PBL is only one curriculum. I certainly wouldn't have committed to it coming out of a life of lecture learning.
Western PA is soap country. Match lists are largely irrelevant unless you're attending a new school or if their board pass rate is ****.
Erie is a far more economically and health literacy poor population than Ft. Lauderdale and Broward county which is arguably one of the most affluent and diverse.

I don't think your outcomes will be better in Erie or Nova. Pretty much anyone who passes step 1 and 2 can land any community IM program from any place. But agreed, it's really based on whether you are going to be okay with hard winters in the rust belt but saving a lot of money versus going to do med school in a warmer place with more traditionally urban amenities. Myself personally? I'd have my deposit down on NOVA.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

n=1. for me, I study 15+ hours a day (class + study).
Location doesn't matter because 99% of the time outside of class, I'm in the study room.

But yeah, I did hear Erie is bad with rotations.....that's something to consider.
Especially since with step 1 PF, rotations matters more.

I want to KCU. I probably studied 7-8 hours a day my second year because I stopped going to class entirely and just did self study. There's utterly no comparing the value in going to a non-attendance requiring program. Even when I went to class I was almost always in a hoodie and comfy pants too. I cannot imagine being in a dress shirt, pants, and tie for 8 hours a day in class and then studying at home afterward.

 

[Dr Meow]

I want to KCU. I probably studied 7-8 hours a day my second year because I stopped going to class entirely and just did self study. There's utterly no comparing the value in going to a non-attendance requiring program. Even when I went to class I was almost always in a hoodie and comfy pants too. I cannot imagine being in a dress shirt, pants, and tie for 8 hours a day in class and then studying at home afterward.

WOW! My school expels students for missing class!

 

[DO2015CA]

PBL is only one curriculum. I certainly wouldn't have committed to it coming out of a life of lecture learning.
Western PA is soap country. Match lists are largely irrelevant unless you're attending a new school or if their board pass rate is ****.
Erie is a far more economically and health literacy poor population than Ft. Lauderdale and Broward county which is arguably one of the most affluent and diverse.

I don't think your outcomes will be better in Erie or Nova. Pretty much anyone who passes step 1 and 2 can land any community IM program from any place. But agreed, it's really based on whether you are going to be okay with hard winters in the rust belt but saving a lot of money versus going to do med school in a warmer place with more traditionally urban amenities. Myself personally? I'd have my deposit down on NOVA.

This last paragraph. My think is I’m looking at my loan balance and went to an attendance school. It wasn’t that bad if i was saving 80k. So mine would be LECOM.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

WOW! My school expels students for missing class!

Yah, uh attendance policies are generally degenerate and have poorer outcomes in respect to boards....

This last paragraph. My think is I’m looking at my loan balance and went to an attendance school. It wasn’t that bad if i was saving 80k. So mine would be LECOM.

Yah, don't get me wrong 80k is big money. That being said I'd eat it for living in a warm climate, good food, and non-attendance. Also I'll say that going to medical school in a location you actually can tolerate long term means you can potentially start to plan residency there. I would never have wanted to live in Western PA long term.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Erie has PBL which requires far less attendance and a ton of self-directed study. Erie has core sites and a (low quality but at least extant) teaching hospital that a subset of students are placed at. Other core sites usually have 1 or more residency affiliated with them. LECOM sets up almost all of your 3rd year rotations for you, and some of your 4th year. It is a good mix of self-scheduling as far as logistics/work goes (above the average for DO schools from everything I have heard and read), but really pretty frustrating with regards to lack of support and flexibility for scheduling away rotations. It is false that they make you set most rotation stuff up yourself.

LECOM students have had better match and/or placement rates than NOVA students in the recent past. LECOM students are sometimes well regarded by regional residenices (surprising to me) in non-competitive specialties. I suspect there is less of an insane competition for regional residency spots and rotations sites in this region as compared to South Florida. What I am getting at is that outcomes are better at LECOM than at NOVA and you have a better safety net for residency, because there are many regional residencies in non-competitive specialties. That is worth quite a bit of potential additional suffering in my opinion.

South Florida has sun and beaches and warmth (all of which are preferable to Erie) but it is also expensive and has potentially lower health literacy than Erie, which is A) remarkable and B) a huge drawback. Florida is also in a political climate that is potentially more polarizing than PA. Erie does have skiing nearby (low quality... but present) and is equidistant from several cities that are worth visiting at least once. It has a great state park on the lake as well. It is getting a climbing gym. I do not like Erie but I am not at all convinced that South Florida is any less of a hellscape for some people.

Given better outcomes and likely savings of 80K+, if one is neutral about the locations, or at least can find time away from the sun tolerable, LECOM is an obvious choice. I wouldn't recommend attending a DO program unless one is interested in FM, community IM, or peds.

I'm in agreement for all but the last paragraph.. Check charting outcomes and most of the competitive residencies have like a 70% match for DOs. I recommend anyone considering dropping a DO acceptanc to review Charting outcomes for DO residency match before deciding.

 

[hallowmann]

NOVA. They actually have good associations with Broward Medical Center which actually has a Cardio program. They generally have pretty good rotations as well.

Medical school doesn't really matter. It's all about Pathoma, sketchy, first aid, uworld until year 3 when rotations matter. Erie also is an attendence requiring hell. NOVA from what I understand has rotations it will set up for you. Where as Erie makes you set it up yourself.

Also for your sanity, South Florida is a hell of a better place to live than Erie.

That being said Nova will be more expensive. But I would not even have given this a second thought.

I can't speak for Nova, but LECOM has multiple affiliations with IM programs that have Cards internally and often take from their own. You do not set up your rotations at LECOM-Erie, you get assigned to a clinical site for all of your cores unless something huge has changed recently. LECOM-Bradenton from what I understand does involve setting up your own rotations.

Also, I will say PBL and DSP (I think it's still around) would be far better than the lecture based curriculum and would make being there much more tolerable, but you basically would have to commit to it from the beginning.

The cost difference is also huge. $38k a year in tuition at LECOM is very hard to come by in medical schools, but there absolutely is a trade off from a admin rigidity standpoint. For some people that's not a big deal, for others it would ruin their time and make it difficult to do well. I'd say it comes down a lot to personality.

I would generally agree that outcome from an IM to Cards standpoint will likely be similar from either of these schools, keep in mind they are both mid-range DO schools.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I'm in agreement for all but the last paragraph.. Check charting outcomes and most of the competitive residencies have like a 70% match for DOs. I recommend anyone considering dropping a DO acceptanc to review Charting outcomes for DO residency match before deciding.

I also will say that DO acceptances at larger Communiversity and University tier programs in the midwest are relatively in reach for FM and IM and Peds with average boards e.g 220-225 on step 1. It's when you start getting closer to the coasts that you really need to get good boards to stand out.

And truthfully it's always about finding a mentor and having people who know you enough that they can talk to people that they know. Which is the largest deficit in DO programs that is of worth.

 

[SurgDoc95]

Hmm lets see, live in PA or FL for med school at essentially equivalent schools...me thinks Florida sounds a lot less miserable

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I also will say that DO acceptances at larger Communiversity and University tier programs in the midwest are relatively in reach for FM and IM and Peds with average boards e.g 220-225 on step 1. It's when you start getting closer to the coasts that you really need to get good boards to stand out.

And truthfully it's always about finding a mentor and having people who know you enough that they can talk to people that they know. Which is the largest deficit in DO programs that is of worth.

Fair, and it's hard to find a mentor during pre clinical who is not in Primary care. This goes for MDs too. I as a specialist was able to help students match my specialty. I sat on the resident admissions committee at our local university and know what to add to LORs. I have students at Hopkins, Shands Hosp at UF, Mayo Jax, U Maryland, Penn State, U Wisconsin, and multiple Level 1 trauma uni affiliates. I have emailed and called PDs for my students. This helps raise the students status IMO. However, the student is the biggest factor in making themselves a good candidate.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Fair, and it's hard to find a mentor during pre clinical who is not in Primary care. This goes for MDs too. I as a specialist was able to help students match my specialty. I sat on the resident admissions committee at our local university and know what to add to LORs. I have students at Hopkins, Shands Hosp at UF, Mayo Jax, U Maryland, Penn State, U Wisconsin, and multiple Level 1 trauma uni affiliates. I have emailed and called PDs for my students. This helps raise the students status IMO. However, the student is the biggest factor in making themselves a good candidate.

I feel like at most university MD programs they have many available resources. Even when not mentoring just being around active people who take an interest in your advancement is important.

 

[PapaGuava]

Thread moved to the appropriate forum.

 

[chilly_md]

I’m putting in a vote for LECOM. Less issues there, and even if they have a strict administration, you’re saving money on tuition.