LECOM PBL "Typical" reading

[sabsaf123]

Can anyone tell me what a typical week looks like, in terms of readings, for students doing the PBL curriculum at LECOM? I know that you have PBL MWF and then some other stuff on Tues/Th. I more interested in how much you typically read in a week. Could anyone name some of the books (Robbins, Katzung, etc.) and how many pages you go through?

I'm just trying to get an idea of what the pace is like in med school. If someone could post a small list like...
Mon (50 pgs Robbins + 20 pgs Katzung)
Tues (reread previous 50 pages (from Mon.) + read 40 more pgs Robbins)
Wed..etc.
that would be awesome!

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[ortnakas]

Second years assign about 100 pages of final learning issues per case, and go through about 2-3 cases per week. In first year, you go through cases slightly more slowly, and assign less pages of final learning issues, but also have "common learning issues" that are shared between all of the PBL groups. There's an exam that covers seven cases' worth, or 700 pages, every four to five weeks. How you pace yourself doing that reading is totally up to you, and there are probably almost as many ways to do it as there are PBL students, so there's not one right answer, and "typical reading" per day is impossible to describe.

Books we use: Robbins Pathology, Guyton & Hall Physiology, Marks Biochemistry, Schaeters Microbiology, Golan Pharmacology, Abbas Immunology. You can also choose readings from Gray's Anatomy, as well as histology and embryology (but do that very rarely second year, so I don't remember which books those are).

 

[TheOther]

All we do is read in PBL. We'll have a case where a patient presents with symptoms (eg. hypertension). As we progress through it, we select learning issues that pertain to the case so we tackle it from all angles - studying hypertension from path, phys, pharm, etc. So there is no "set" reading schedule per say. It's a very different style of learning than everyone's used to, but you adjust.

The first couple months of each semester of first year are the toughest because you're taking loads of other courses while going through PBL. I love PBL though.

 

[LSDiVinci]

It's already been said, but I'll add too/elaborate. I'm OMS-I right now. In the early months of the first semester you take Anatomy, Histology, and Embryology. Anatomy has no lecture and you basically read the entire book. Histology and Embryology are both lecture based. During these three classes you don't HAVE TO do any of the recommended readings for PBL. You basically have two weeks of time from the end of Anatomy to cram in your PBL readings ( I don't advise this, but most of us did it so we could focus and do well in Anatomy.) After Anatomy ends, you go full swing into PBL. Your first full block of PBL has 6 cases and you have to choose 80 pages/case then you have to read additional common learning issues that are selected by the faculty. In the second semester it's still 80 pages/case, but it's 7 cases. I'm not sure if this seems like a lot or not, but we choose a lot of readings that overlap. For example, if we need to pick chapters related to the clotting cascade...than we pick pages out of phys, path, pharm, and biochem that all end up saying the same exact thing, so, it's a lot to read, but not all of it is new and really, you end up doing a review bc the material is so repetitive...ends up being a time saver. Also, you can still pick from anatomy, embryo, and histo which will also be review since you've already taken them at that point in the term. As was said, we go through ~1 case/week, unless it's a really easy case. So far, we have always finished the cases 2 weeks before the exam, so we have M/W/F off before the exam and spend that time studying. A lot of people here will finish their first read through of all the material (all 700 pages) maybe 1-2 weeks before the exam and then spend the M/W/F that we get off to review everything. Generally, I set daily reading goals. I pick a day that I want to finish reading by and divide it out and make myself read that number of pages every day. Obviously there are some other classes that you'll be taking at the same time so you won't hit your quota every day, but you can usually make up for it with easy reads or by building a little buffer time into your deadline. I have found nothing to be particularly difficult, but the pace and volume is challenging. It's totally doable though, you just have to stay on track.

 

[Henry101]

It's already been said, but I'll add too/elaborate. I'm OMS-I right now. In the early months of the first semester you take Anatomy, Histology, and Embryology. Anatomy has no lecture and you basically read the entire book. Histology and Embryology are both lecture based. During these three classes you don't HAVE TO do any of the recommended readings for PBL. You basically have two weeks of time from the end of Anatomy to cram in your PBL readings ( I don't advise this, but most of us did it so we could focus and do well in Anatomy.) After Anatomy ends, you go full swing into PBL. Your first full block of PBL has 6 cases and you have to choose 80 pages/case then you have to read additional common learning issues that are selected by the faculty. In the second semester it's still 80 pages/case, but it's 7 cases. I'm not sure if this seems like a lot or not, but we choose a lot of readings that overlap. For example, if we need to pick chapters related to the clotting cascade...than we pick pages out of phys, path, pharm, and biochem that all end up saying the same exact thing, so, it's a lot to read, but not all of it is new and really, you end up doing a review bc the material is so repetitive...ends up being a time saver. Also, you can still pick from anatomy, embryo, and histo which will also be review since you've already taken them at that point in the term. As was said, we go through ~1 case/week, unless it's a really easy case. So far, we have always finished the cases 2 weeks before the exam, so we have M/W/F off before the exam and spend that time studying. A lot of people here will finish their first read through of all the material (all 700 pages) maybe 1-2 weeks before the exam and then spend the M/W/F that we get off to review everything. Generally, I set daily reading goals. I pick a day that I want to finish reading by and divide it out and make myself read that number of pages every day. Obviously there are some other classes that you'll be taking at the same time so you won't hit your quota every day, but you can usually make up for it with easy reads or by building a little buffer time into your deadline. I have found nothing to be particularly difficult, but the pace and volume is challenging. It's totally doable though, you just have to stay on track.

DISCLAIMER: I will not be attending LECOM (yet) but find the PBL curriculum to be absolutely fascinating model of medical education.
My question is about testing and grade assignment.
So you basically have 2-4 exams per semester correct? While other schools have a separate grade for each year 2 course, LECOM assigns 1 grade per semester for PBL? Does this mean that each PBL exam basically has a incredibly large impact on your GPA right?
Finally, are there differences between the PBL curriculum between the 3 campuses?

 

[MusicDOc124]

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[ortnakas]

DISCLAIMER: I will not be attending LECOM (yet) but find the PBL curriculum to be absolutely fascinating model of medical education.
My question is about testing and grade assignment.
So you basically have 2-4 exams per semester correct? While other schools have a separate grade for each year 2 course, LECOM assigns 1 grade per semester for PBL? Does this mean that each PBL exam basically has a incredibly large impact on your GPA right?
Finally, are there differences between the PBL curriculum between the 3 campuses?

I like PBL, but you're correct, and that's admittedly a downside. You get one grade per semester for PBL, and PBL gets up to 26.5 credits first semester second year, so every exam has a huge impact (and failing one can put you in a scary position).

The "gist" of PBL is the same between all 3 campuses, including the grading scheme, but I'm sure there's minor differences between them that I don't know about because I've only ever been at Seton Hill. I'm under the impression that the two Pennsylvania campuses are almost the same and Bradenton does things a bit differently, more day-to-day differences than overall course management, but I don't have any data or firsthand knowledge to back it up.

 

[TheOther]

DISCLAIMER: I will not be attending LECOM (yet) but find the PBL curriculum to be absolutely fascinating model of medical education.
My question is about testing and grade assignment.
So you basically have 2-4 exams per semester correct? While other schools have a separate grade for each year 2 course, LECOM assigns 1 grade per semester for PBL? Does this mean that each PBL exam basically has a incredibly large impact on your GPA right?
Finally, are there differences between the PBL curriculum between the 3 campuses?

To add to the response above, I believe there are some difference in terms of amount of pages of reading required per case - but what you're accountable for for the exams vary as well. Eg. If one campus has a lesser page requirement per case, they still may pull questions that are relevant to the subject at hand even though they're not directly from the selected readings. I hope that makes sense. Either way, I'm pretty sure board scores for PBL students across LECOM campuses are all comparable.

More than anything, I think what PBL has over other modes of learning is the studying style. We study 4-5 weeks, reading anywhere from 10-16 hours a day for a single, 4-hour exam. This inevitably builds a habit of studying that becomes beneficial for board prep (from what I hear - I'm just a first year). It also prepares you better for rotations, where you're not given Powerpoints or lectures for everything. It's all reading on your own to be prepared for each rotation and shelf exams.

 

[OSUguy17]

DISCLAIMER: I will not be attending LECOM (yet) but find the PBL curriculum to be absolutely fascinating model of medical education.
My question is about testing and grade assignment.
So you basically have 2-4 exams per semester correct? While other schools have a separate grade for each year 2 course, LECOM assigns 1 grade per semester for PBL? Does this mean that each PBL exam basically has a incredibly large impact on your GPA right?
Finally, are there differences between the PBL curriculum between the 3 campuses?

While there are only around 3 exams per PBL per semester it can have an impact on your GPA. Realize that at LECOM a 89.499999 will be rounded to an 89 which shows up on your transcript as a B = 3.0. I did post bacc up in Erie and got the world of LDP. My friends and I would kill the exams 99+ per test and essentially had a 4.0. My biggest thing about picking between Bradenton and Erie was should i stick with what I was doing good at or move to the better of the 3 campuses and get better weather. I chose the latter and am so happy I did. Realize that a majority of the glass will get a B in PBL. People freak out about this but it doesn't matter because even though there are no B- or B+ that when they calculate your class rank they multiple your percentage in PBL so getting an 89.5 vs a 80 will put you significantly higher on class standings. All PD that I Have talked to in residency care about the class rank. So don't worry as much about the GPA but for the percentage you get in the class.

 

[sabsaf123]

While there are only around 3 exams per PBL per semester it can have an impact on your GPA. Realize that at LECOM a 89.499999 will be rounded to an 89 which shows up on your transcript as a B = 3.0. I did post bacc up in Erie and got the world of LDP. My friends and I would kill the exams 99+ per test and essentially had a 4.0. My biggest thing about picking between Bradenton and Erie was should i stick with what I was doing good at or move to the better of the 3 campuses and get better weather. I chose the latter and am so happy I did. Realize that a majority of the glass will get a B in PBL. People freak out about this but it doesn't matter because even though there are no B- or B+ that when they calculate your class rank they multiple your percentage in PBL so getting an 89.5 vs a 80 will put you significantly higher on class standings. All PD that I Have talked to in residency care about the class rank. So don't worry as much about the GPA but for the percentage you get in the class.

Hey OSUguy and all others at LECOM,

How difficult do you all find it to simply pass? As long as you are reading 8+ hours a day, do you have a very high chance of staying in the C to B range? Is getting A's in undergrad classes similar to getting a C for a PBL exam, or is PBL even harder than that?

 

[OMS398563]

Hey OSUguy and all others at LECOM,

How difficult do you all find it to simply pass? As long as you are reading 8+ hours a day, do you have a very high chance of staying in the C to B range? Is getting A's in undergrad classes similar to getting a C for a PBL exam, or is PBL even harder than that?

Passing is generally not hard. The problem is that they tend(ed) to put serious amounts of minutia on the exams so doing really well is challenging. Please do yourself a favor and ignore their bleating about review books. Doing questions and using such resources after initial reads will really help ensure you grasp the concepts.

 

[OSUguy17]

Hey OSUguy and all others at LECOM,

How difficult do you all find it to simply pass? As long as you are reading 8+ hours a day, do you have a very high chance of staying in the C to B range? Is getting A's in undergrad classes similar to getting a C for a PBL exam, or is PBL even harder than that?

In my point of view if you CAN read 8 hours a day you should be number 1 in the class. In real life there are students who read 12 hours a day/ 7 days a week and got minimal scores. It's all about what works best for you. I read strictly for PBL about 2 hours a day, completed other assignments, and studied the rest of the day for other classes. About 2 weeks out from a PBL exam I picked up my studying and did about the 8 hours a day. I would usually take Sat and Sun off before the Monday exam. My scores were great. That is what worked for me. There were people who did the same amount as me and flunked out. There were people who did way more than me and flunked out. It's all about what works best for you.

As for comparing med school to college I have a completely different view than most. I thought undergrad was WAY harder. I don't know if it was because there were tons of things going on and I didn't really care about my studies or what, but I did a little below average in college. Medical school is not hard, its just time consuming. The material is easy but it takes time to memorize the minutia, plus its easier to study when you enjoy the material.

I will say this make sure you realize PBL is a self directed learning experience. Its up to you to learn.

 

[ortnakas]

Hey OSUguy and all others at LECOM,

How difficult do you all find it to simply pass? As long as you are reading 8+ hours a day, do you have a very high chance of staying in the C to B range? Is getting A's in undergrad classes similar to getting a C for a PBL exam, or is PBL even harder than that?

I can respect that you want to get an idea of what you're getting into, but there's just no way to quantify this in advance. PBL is self-guided, which means it's different for everyone-- that's kind of the point. Show up, do your best, figure out what your best is, and adjust your habits and goals accordingly. Everyone has different approaches to studying, especially for PBL, and if you constantly compare yourself to your classmates you'll almost literally drive yourself nuts (I speak from experience).

 

[sabsaf123]

I can respect that you want to get an idea of what you're getting into, but there's just no way to quantify this in advance. PBL is self-guided, which means it's different for everyone-- that's kind of the point. Show up, do your best, figure out what your best is, and adjust your habits and goals accordingly. Everyone has different approaches to studying, especially for PBL, and if you constantly compare yourself to your classmates you'll almost literally drive yourself nuts (I speak from experience).

Thanks ortnakas,

The thing is I'm just a little freaked out about my ability to handle med school. I actually applied to med school and another (possibly easier) healthcare professional school. I've been accepted to both. I did pretty well in college (30 mcat, 3.7gpa, ec's etc.) but I would literally memorize ppts for 8 hours a day and I know med school typically requires at least 3-4x the hours ppl put into college.

 

[TheOther]

Thanks ortnakas,

The thing is I'm just a little freaked out about my ability to handle med school. I actually applied to med school and another (possibly easier) healthcare professional school. I've been accepted to both. I did pretty well in college (30 mcat, 3.7gpa, ec's etc.) but I would literally memorize ppts for 8 hours a day and I know med school typically requires at least 3-4x the hours ppl put into college.

This really comes down to you searching yourself. Med school is hard. Being a resident is hard. Practicing medicine as an attending is hard. The burnout rate is high. Before I started med school, every friend/colleague/mentor I've spoken to all said the same thing: "make damn sure this is what you want. Go another route, if you can." I'm a non-trad so it took me time to even consider medicine, let alone figure out if it was for me. By working in other areas where I had a lot of potential to thrive (research/business), I found that nothing satisfied me like my experiences in clinical settings. So even though med school is hard and the road long, I can't imagine myself pursuing anything else.

Best to you.

 

[hallowmann]

Thanks ortnakas,

The thing is I'm just a little freaked out about my ability to handle med school. I actually applied to med school and another (possibly easier) healthcare professional school. I've been accepted to both. I did pretty well in college (30 mcat, 3.7gpa, ec's etc.) but I would literally memorize ppts for 8 hours a day and I know med school typically requires at least 3-4x the hours ppl put into college.

The issue is really going to be time management and focusing on what's important so you can figure out the answer even when you haven't memorized the information. You will not be able to memorize everything in med school, especially not in a PBL curriculum. There is just too much and everytime you memorize some, you'll forget or get rusty on others. The key is focusing on time management and major themes/relationships. Besides that, it really is what you make of it and your own personal learning method.

I agree with other posters that you really need to search yourself and decide if this is right for you. We're talking at least 7 years, almost a decade of your life, essentially 10% of it, of delayed gratification. It is not easy, it is not short, and life may throw some crazy and terrible things at you during the process that you just have to get past to focus on school/residency. You will likely be different on a personal level afterwards, and this is coming from a non-trad that had already seen and done a decent amount. It honestly isn't worth it if you'd be happy doing something that requires less of your life to just start out.