Let the ranking begin...

[LEdaddy]

Since today's the day the NRMP lets us first enter our ROLs I wanted to say good luck to all of you out there who are applying this year.

I, for one, have still not decided on my final rankings yet, but we will soon be one step closer to being done with this period of uncertainty in our lives.

I expect most of us won't be publicly posting any rank lists until after February 22nd, but if you have any thoughts, questions, rants, etc before then, we can post them on this thread.

Once again, good luck everyone!

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[Doctor Bagel]

So exciting! Hoping you all get what you want.

 

[JabsterL]

extremely tough to choose between certain programs, but i'm gonna try to not flip-flop TOO much over the next 5 wks..

 

[pingouin]

I think I have my top 4, just have to make sure I have them in the right order for me. As for the rest... I'll have to sort through those and see how they shake out.

everyone!

 

[LEdaddy]

I have three I can't decide between for number 1. One of them sent me a love letter and I'm trying my best not to let that color my decision.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

I'm trying to decide between UCLA-NPI and Stanford as my top choice. Anyone else? Both amazing programs. If anyone cares to chime in on them then the more the merrier. I flip-flop every day on this.... ack!

 

[psychphan]

I have three I can't decide between for number 1. One of them sent me a love letter and I'm trying my best not to let that color my decision.

Don't let yourself be bought so easily. At least hold out for flowers before you give yourself up.

 

[MiddleRoad]

I'm trying to decide between UCLA-NPI and Stanford as my top choice. Anyone else? Both amazing programs. If anyone cares to chime in on them then the more the merrier. I flip-flop every day on this.... ack!

I thought UCLA was pretty amazing. Extremely deep bench, impressive and happy residents, great opportunities to do research, amazing facilities. What are some of.the things about Stanford that make you consider it over UCLA?

 

[JabsterL]

I'm trying to decide between UCLA-NPI and Stanford as my top choice. Anyone else? Both amazing programs. If anyone cares to chime in on them then the more the merrier. I flip-flop every day on this.... ack!

Nice dilemma to have...I am flip-floppin in my mind between Emory and U of MD-Sheppard Pratt as my 2 and 3...anyone care to share their thoughts on these?

 

[LEdaddy]

Don't let yourself be bought so easily. At least hold out for flowers before you give yourself up.

No, I need chocolates to be persuaded.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

I thought UCLA was pretty amazing. Extremely deep bench, impressive and happy residents, great opportunities to do research, amazing facilities. What are some of.the things about Stanford that make you consider it over UCLA?

They have world-class instructors in certain areas of therapy training like CBT if I recall, and the new leadership is all about a well-balanced program with plenty of elective time and an academic focus. But I can't say these make it more special than UCLA. The Stanford campus has a very different feel. Perhaps the possibility to live in Silicon Valley or the Bay Area if that's your thing.

 

[pingouin]

No, I need chocolates to be persuaded.

No less than Godiva, of course.

 

[classof2011]

No less than Godiva, of course.

The kind that covers strawberries to be exact, My tongue is FIERCE!

 

[splik]

I'm trying to decide between UCLA-NPI and Stanford as my top choice. Anyone else? Both amazing programs. If anyone cares to chime in on them then the more the merrier. I flip-flop every day on this.... ack!

Except for location UCLA (and assuming were talking about adult psychiatry) wins hands down everytime. And location is a plus when you consider cost of living (cheaper than the Bay area), and diversity of patient population. UCLA is a psychiatric academic powerhouse only rivalled by Harvard and Columbia, with excellent clinical training, diversity of clinical sites, biologically oriented but with excellent psychotherapy training, free health insurance, and happy residents. Stanford has a strong academic reputation, but doesn't match UCLA, the clinical training has not historically been as highly regarded, the patient population is skewed to a more white affluent population, and the residents haven't always been the happiest people.

 

[MiddleRoad]

Except for location UCLA (and assuming were talking about adult psychiatry) wins hands down everytime. And location is a plus when you consider cost of living (cheaper than the Bay area), and diversity of patient population. UCLA is a psychiatric academic powerhouse only rivalled by Harvard and Columbia, with excellent clinical training, diversity of clinical sites, biologically oriented but with excellent psychotherapy training, free health insurance, and happy residents. Stanford has a strong academic reputation, but doesn't match UCLA, the clinical training has not historically been as highly regarded, the patient population is skewed to a more white affluent population, and the residents haven't always been the happiest people.

I tend to agree with this. UCLA is excellent in most respects. I do think one point above does need further elaboration, however.

When it comes to inpatient exposure at UCLA, it is not a program where the residents see a ton of diversity when compared to programs that include county hospitals (which is not the case at Stanford either, of course). There are wealthy, insured patients at Resnick and vets at the VA. For example, I have heard from more than one person who trained there that the only Spanish-speaking population on inpatient psych they worked with was during the 1 month they spent in the psych ER at Harbor during intern year.

Granted, there is the harbor track where you can do your first year there and probably get the best combo of all the different sites (county hospital, VA, fancy private hospital) but only one (or 2?) resident per class at UCLA Semel is selected for this each year. Also, there is a lot more flexibility in years 3 and 4 to work in the community.

Again, it's hard to beat this program. But when comparing it to other places, I wouldn't tout diversity in patient populations as a selling point.

 

[splik]

Granted the UCLA-NPI residents don't spend all that much time at Harbor unless they are in the Harbor track they do all have the month in the Psych ER there during the intern year so it is as not as if they get no county experience and you do learn alot in the psych ER there and see a ton of patients predominantly indigent but even the occasional insured patient.

Yes you get lots of wealthy patients at NPI (and very swanky inpatient units they have too) and apparently a fair few celebrities come through that apparently residents have some involvement in their care, but it is not like they are just seeing wealthy patients. I think a diverse experience means seeing patients rich and poor, from different ethnic groups, not just poor Latino population etc. It would be disingenous to suggest at Stanford all you will see is affluent white patients of course, but you can't argue the skew is greater there vs UCLA.

 

[atethesun]

Has anyone made up a temp list?

For my class, we only have a handful of ppl going into a psych, so we don't have a lot of students to talk about programs. On top of that, my mentors have been out of residency for at least 20-30 years (one is 74 y/o). Anyway, my friend told me about this forum and I just want to chat with you guys about programs.
To briefly describe my interest... well, I don't have any particular one. I like everything (like a kid in a candy store), so I just want a well-balanced program. Though I do look for a program with good psychotherapy training. What do you guys think?

My current list:
deleted

 

[splik]

Has anyone made up a temp list?

For my class, we only have 2 ppl going into a psych, so we don't have a lot of students to talk about programs. On top of that, my mentors have been out of residency for at least 20-30 years (one is 74 y/o). Anyway, my friend told me about this forum and I just want to chat with you guys about programs. Although I could talk to my home program's director, I kinda don't want to show him this list.
To briefly describe my interest... well, I don't have any particular one. I like everything (like a kid in a candy store), so I just want a well-balanced program. Though I do look for a program with good psychotherapy training. What do you guys think?

Focusing on psychotherapy - You cant really go too wrong in new york for very strong psychodynamic/psychoanalytic training. Both NYU and Mt Sinai will give you great training. At sinai you can also do additional training in group analytic psychotherapy, and start your analytic training or do an analyric fellowship at the new york psychoanalytic society and institute. They also have good CBT training and I remember the chief resident saying he had a play therapy case. There is also lots of elective time and rotating through different rotations during the first 2 years.

Yale has really great therapy training as well in psychodynamic, CBT, cognitive processing therapy if you are interested and you can take additional classes at the western new england psychoanalytic society.

Hopkins and WashU are very 'biologically' oriented so there isn't as much emphasis on psychodynamic training at those places. Hopkins is known for barely veiling their contempt for psychotherapy and not seeing it as a strong part of a psychiatrist's role. However, they still have some big names in the field for CBT such as Joseph Bienvenu and they have quite strong CBT training, most likely because it is the most evidence based and fits in nicely with their 'perspectives approach'. They are not 'anti-psychoanalysis' as the founder of the department Adolf Meyer devised the psychobiological approach and was one of Freud's disciples (and it fits in with the 'life story perspective'), but you would just need to get the training after residency.

Duke is fairly 'biological' as well but they have probably the best family therapy training in the country. They have an excellent family studies program with strong supervision and lots of opportunity to train in other modalities. There is psychodynamic training, but I don't think that is emphasized. They learn motivational interviewing during PGY-1.

Michican probably has one of the most 'balanced' psychotherapy curricula in the country with a focus on the more empirically supported therapies (e.g. CBT, IPT) but also psychodynamic, family, supportive.

What did you like about your top choices?

 

[atethesun]

Focusing on psychotherapy - You cant really go too wrong in new york for very strong psychodynamic/psychoanalytic training. Both NYU and Mt Sinai will give you great training. At sinai you can also do additional training in group analytic psychotherapy, and start your analytic training or do an analyric fellowship at the new york psychoanalytic society and institute. They also have good CBT training and I remember the chief resident saying he had a play therapy case. There is also lots of elective time and rotating through different rotations during the first 2 years.

Yale has really great therapy training as well in psychodynamic, CBT, cognitive processing therapy if you are interested and you can take additional classes at the western new england psychoanalytic society.

Hopkins and WashU are very 'biologically' oriented so there isn't as much emphasis on psychodynamic training at those places. Hopkins is known for barely veiling their contempt for psychotherapy and not seeing it as a strong part of a psychiatrist's role. However, they still have some big names in the field for CBT such as Joseph Bienvenu and they have quite strong CBT training, most likely because it is the most evidence based and fits in nicely with their 'perspectives approach'. They are not 'anti-psychoanalysis' as the founder of the department Adolf Meyer devised the psychobiological approach and was one of Freud's disciples (and it fits in with the 'life story perspective'), but you would just need to get the training after residency.

Duke is fairly 'biological' as well but they have probably the best family therapy training in the country. They have an excellent family studies program with strong supervision and lots of opportunity to train in other modalities. There is psychodynamic training, but I don't think that is emphasized. They learn motivational interviewing during PGY-1.

Michican probably has one of the most 'balanced' psychotherapy curricula in the country with a focus on the more empirically supported therapies (e.g. CBT, IPT) but also psychodynamic, family, supportive.

What did you like about your top choices?

Totally agreed with your opinions.
I think part of the reason why I put those programs first is that they would help you into the world of academia while offering a much more comprehensive individualized path. Ie. if you want to try your hands on a particular subfield, the program directors at those places WILL help you design a package that suits you. They want you to become the psychiatrist that you want to be, not the psychiatrist that they think you should be (based on my guy feelings). Even at programs as biological as Hopkins and Washu, the residents don't have a hard time spending more time on interesting psychotherapy cases.
Is that how you felt about those programs?

Just want to add:
I think my list would change drastically a couple times before the deadline hehe.
At the end of Dec, the list looked totally different, like a shuffle of what my current list is. Ultimately, I might end up with 4 different lists and I have to choose one (One is based on what my research mentor suggests. One is based on my gut feelings. etc)

 

[splik]

Well Yale and Mt Sinai definitely emphasize specialisation and have early exposure to different rotations and early elective time (Mt Sinai from PGY-1 and Yale from PGY-2), but NYU IIRC has no elective time until PGY-4 and it is one a fairly hard core program in terms of work hours and call (up to 8 weeks of night float in PGY2! still taking night float in PGY3 - dealbreaker for me but each her their own) so am not sure how it could be seen as a program that allows you to carve out your own. Similarly Hopkins is quite brutal in terms of work hours, and they are extremely inflexible with no elective time until PGY-4, and then only 8 months, far less than any other program I applied to. They pretty much dictate what they think you should learn (which is essentially medical psychiatry). I have heard people try and convince me 'you can get good psychotherapy training at Hopkins' and as their clinical training in general is excellent I have no doubt. But it is an undeniable fact that they spend much less time of didactics on psychodynamic therapy etc. than other top programs. I did not apply to WashU so cannot comment there or any other programs on your list that aren't vaguely near some mass of water (I am including the great lakes here!)

 

[atethesun]

Well Yale and Mt Sinai definitely emphasize specialisation and have early exposure to different rotations and early elective time (Mt Sinai from PGY-1 and Yale from PGY-2), but NYU IIRC has no elective time until PGY-4 and it is one a fairly hard core program in terms of work hours and call (up to 8 weeks of night float in PGY2! still taking night float in PGY3 - dealbreaker for me but each her their own) so am not sure how it could be seen as a program that allows you to carve out your own. Similarly Hopkins is quite brutal in terms of work hours, and they are extremely inflexible with no elective time until PGY-4, and then only 8 months, far less than any other program I applied to. They pretty much dictate what they think you should learn (which is essentially medical psychiatry). I have heard people try and convince me 'you can get good psychotherapy training at Hopkins' and as their clinical training in general is excellent I have no doubt. But it is an undeniable fact that they spend much less time of didactics on psychodynamic therapy etc. than other top programs. I did not apply to WashU so cannot comment there or any other programs on your list that aren't vaguely near some mass of water (I am including the great lakes here!)

Well, for NYU, the workload and nightfloats are also pluses for me. For a single gal with only 2 cats, I actually enjoy doing night floats. Hell, back in Chicago, I used to bartend and I usually got off really late at night. On top of that, the workload I feel is reasonable enough that the extra hours spent at NYU would not give you diminished return. Besides, I am not 100% sure about the rigidity of the program. Sure they don't offer electives until PGY-4 but they do help you specialize to their fullest extend based on what a couple residents told me. What do you think?
For Hopkins, I think they do make up for the lack of psychodynamic didactics with hands-on clinical experience if you choose to and I feel that the freedom they give you in this area is significant more in comparison to other biological programs.

 

[LEdaddy]

You've got quite a wide geographical range in your list. I would also think about where you might want to settle during and after residency.

 

[Jlearner33]

i can't stand this waiting game. it's driving me crazy.

 

[atethesun]

You've got quite a wide geographical range in your list. I would also think about where you might want to settle during and after residency.

Most of the programs I applied to and am ranking are within 1-2 hr flight from Detroit where my parents are living, so it's fine for me. OHSU is the odd ball because I just love Portland that much. Since I ain't couplematching with anyone, I am not worried about specific geographic locations at all (broke up last year with someone who is applying to ENT)

How about you? Where do you want to end up?

PS: I did not interview at any Boston programs because I just don't see myself living there for 4-5years

 

[notdeadyet]

I tend to agree with this. UCLA is excellent in most respects. I do think one point above does need further elaboration, however.

When it comes to inpatient exposure at UCLA, it is not a program where the residents see a ton of diversity when compared to programs that include county hospitals (which is not the case at Stanford either, of course). There are wealthy, insured patients at Resnick and vets at the VA. For example, I have heard from more than one person who trained there that the only Spanish-speaking population on inpatient psych they worked with was during the 1 month they spent in the psych ER at Harbor during intern year.

Very valid point. UCLA does an awesome job with the interview experience and the facilities are amazing. I left there thinking it was perfect. But when really comparing programs, they are lacking the county experience, which isn't a big deal for some people but is a deal-breaker for others.

Granted the UCLA-NPI residents don't spend all that much time at Harbor unless they are in the Harbor track they do all have the month in the Psych ER there during the intern year so it is as not as if they get no county experience and you do learn alot in the psych ER there and see a ton of patients predominantly indigent but even the occasional insured patient.

This is the spin, but at the end of the day, while Harbor rocks, a month in their PES setting does not compensate for not having the county setting as one of their bedrocks. This is also why the "you have electives in 4th year" doesn't really make up for lack of county.

For folks looking for the county experience in California, the quintessential ones that come to mind are UCLA-Harbor, UCSF, and USC. If you're also want the tertiary care experience as well as part of your training, I'd focus on the last two. I also wouldn't overlook UCSD, which has Hillcrest.

 

[psychphan]

For folks looking for the county experience in California, the quintessential ones that come to mind are UCLA-Harbor, UCSF, and USC. If you're also want the tertiary care experience as well as part of your training, I'd focus on the last two. I also wouldn't overlook UCSD, which has Hillcrest.

I just want to chime in that UCLA-Harbor is pretty much ONLY county exposure. Before interviewing there I was under the impression that it was a good mix or county and UCLA resources, but in reality its all county with the exception of I believe 1 geri month, plus elective opportunities during 4th year. Personally, I was looking for more diversity (and I don't mean racial diversity I mean cultural, socio-economic, etc)

 

[pinkladies]

I'd love some help with my list too... At the top (in no particular order) I've got MGH/McLean, Northwestern, UW and Mayo. I'm also looking for a solid, well-rounded program (with opportunities for great therapy training). I'm not sure yet if I see myself in private practice or academics... right now I like both. Geography-wise, I'd rank Chicago>Seattle>Boston>Rochester but I'd say the positive attributes of a particular program could make up for a less favored (or more expensive) location.

 

[splik]

I'd love some help with my list too... At the top (in no particular order) I've got MGH/McLean, Northwestern, UW and Mayo. I'm also looking for a solid, well-rounded program (with opportunities for great therapy training). I'm not sure yet if I see myself in private practice or academics... right now I like both. Geography-wise, I'd rank Chicago>Seattle>Boston>Rochester but I'd say the positive attributes of a particular program could make up for a less favored (or more expensive) location.

Well what are you looking for? How did you end up with such philosophically and geographically disparate programs in your top 4? When you say therapy training do you mean 'psychodynamics' or do you mean a broad range of therapies? There are fairly different programs. MGH/McLean is quite hard core and austere (well MGH anyway) you will work to the bone, there isn't any public psychiatry or VA experience, but you could probably come out of it being able to do whatever you want. Biological oriented but you will get strong psychodynamic training and CBT training here. Boston is probably the most expensive place to live out of those 4.

Northwestern I don't know much about but its very different to MGH, much smaller program, comparatively tiny psychiatry department, relatively cushy. You will get good therapy training here.

UW had the university hospital, county, and VA model which gives you a broad experience. They are very strong on medical psychiatry so if your interest is consultation-liaison or geriatrics look no further. If you are interested in health services, healthcare delivery, epidemiology they are very strong here. Massive program - am not sure the same sorts of people who would be happy at Northwestern would be happy here. They are more biologically orientated with evidence-based psychotherapies - less emphasis on psychodynamics more CBT, DBT, IPT etc. You will work hard here and there is call all 4 years.

Mayo I don't know much about but it doesn't have a strong reputation in psychiatry it has a name brand but that is primarily for medicine and is largely historical and I'm not sure the sort of person who would be happy in a city like chicago would be so happy in Rochester. I cant imagine they emphasize psychotherapy as much as other places where people are willing to pay psychiatrists for it (i.e. New York, Boston, Bay Area)

 

[atethesun]

I'd love some help with my list too... At the top (in no particular order) I've got MGH/McLean, Northwestern, UW and Mayo. I'm also looking for a solid, well-rounded program (with opportunities for great therapy training). I'm not sure yet if I see myself in private practice or academics... right now I like both. Geography-wise, I'd rank Chicago>Seattle>Boston>Rochester but I'd say the positive attributes of a particular program could make up for a less favored (or more expensive) location.

You and I think alike. I too don't feel that I have any geographical constriant and I basically chose programs based on 1) location and 2) recommendation from my mentors.

Of all the majojr cities I've lived in for over a month (NYC, Chicago, Boston, Twin, Portland, St Louis and Nashville), I've only disliked Boston and I would be more than happy to live in any other aforementioned cities (canceled all my Boston interviews as soon as other I have enough interviews in other cities)
If you don't mind me asking, why Boston? If you enjoy Seattle, I don't think you would enjoy Boston as much.
For me, quality of life is just as important as the training. If I won't be happy in the neighborhood, I would rather not go to that program (I'm looking at you, shady Washington Heights haha)

 

[nitemagi]

For folks looking for the county experience in California, the quintessential ones that come to mind are UCLA-Harbor, UCSF, and USC. If you're also want the tertiary care experience as well as part of your training, I'd focus on the last two. I also wouldn't overlook UCSD, which has Hillcrest.

UCSD (this is a little shout-out to my old program) has a pretty diverse training settings --

A lot of VA (admittedly), including a 28-day inpatient alcohol/drug rehab unit that you do 2 months at. Inpatient psych unit. Clinics. "The flagship VA of the West Coast."

Hillcrest is an interesting mix - takes county patients, but technically an academic center (so you see both groups in one hospital). High census ER. Inpatient psych unit which is mostly funded but some county patients. Good satellite center seeing rarer cases (major SA's, rare psychosis, medical mimics). consults is also a high census but you learn a lot. The inpt psych unit also has drug trials (pro/con depending on your persepective).

Outpatient clinic for 3rd year that has both a county side (with dual dx, TAY), as well as a private side (treating undergrads and the insured).

Tons of moonlighting (private hospital, county, jails).

And contrary to the biological reputation, there's a great body of faculty that're psychotherapy focused (CBT, DBT, Psychoanalysts, Prolonged exposure), and my former mentor who teaches hypnosis and some psychodrama. There are many who are biologically based, but the truth is UCSD is very Research focused overall than it is dominantly biologic, IMHO.

 

[pinkladies]

Well what are you looking for? How did you end up with such philosophically and geographically disparate programs in your top 4? When you say therapy training do you mean 'psychodynamics' or do you mean a broad range of therapies? There are fairly different programs. MGH/McLean is quite hard core and austere (well MGH anyway) you will work to the bone, there isn't any public psychiatry or VA experience, but you could probably come out of it being able to do whatever you want. Biological oriented but you will get strong psychodynamic training and CBT training here. Boston is probably the most expensive place to live out of those 4.

Northwestern I don't know much about but its very different to MGH, much smaller program, comparatively tiny psychiatry department, relatively cushy. You will get good therapy training here.

UW had the university hospital, county, and VA model which gives you a broad experience. They are very strong on medical psychiatry so if your interest is consultation-liaison or geriatrics look no further. If you are interested in health services, healthcare delivery, epidemiology they are very strong here. Massive program - am not sure the same sorts of people who would be happy at Northwestern would be happy here. They are more biologically orientated with evidence-based psychotherapies - less emphasis on psychodynamics more CBT, DBT, IPT etc. You will work hard here and there is call all 4 years.

Mayo I don't know much about but it doesn't have a strong reputation in psychiatry it has a name brand but that is primarily for medicine and is largely historical and I'm not sure the sort of person who would be happy in a city like chicago would be so happy in Rochester. I cant imagine they emphasize psychotherapy as much as other places where people are willing to pay psychiatrists for it (i.e. New York, Boston, Bay Area)

I think I ended up with these 4 quite different programs because I picked the best from each "type" that I interviewed at...

I'm looking for a strong, well-balanced training experience at a place that could teach a psychodynamic formulation well in addition to having the resources to teach the more evidence-based therapies. I'd like at least some diversity in patient population as well as in types of training sites in a place that would prepare me well for both private practice and academics (and a place where if I worked hard and remained passionate about the field I would leave as a very desirable job candidate). People are important too - in terms of mentors, a program director that values the input of the residents, a generally cohesive, friendly and fun (though also driven and hard-working) residency class and a department that is both supportive of education and supported by the hospital as a whole.

 

[pinkladies]

You and I think alike. I too don't feel that I have any geographical constriant and I basically chose programs based on 1) location and 2) recommendation from my mentors.

Of all the majojr cities I've lived in for over a month (NYC, Chicago, Boston, Twin, Portland, St Louis and Nashville), I've only disliked Boston and I would be more than happy to live in any other aforementioned cities (canceled all my Boston interviews as soon as other I have enough interviews in other cities)
If you don't mind me asking, why Boston? If you enjoy Seattle, I don't think you would enjoy Boston as much.
For me, quality of life is just as important as the training. If I won't be happy in the neighborhood, I would rather not go to that program (I'm looking at you, shady Washington Heights haha)

I wasn't super excited about Boston when I spent a month there (granted, I was very busy) but when I spent some more time there during the interview trail and actually had the opportunity to walk around and explore I really loved it for some reason! I loved some of the neighborhoods and the fact its such a walkable city and the food...
Seattle has its own feel to it - I love its location and the multitude of fun outdoorsy stuff to do in the NW.

 

[atethesun]

I wasn't super excited about Boston when I spent a month there (granted, I was very busy) but when I spent some more time there during the interview trail and actually had the opportunity to walk around and explore I really loved it for some reason! I loved some of the neighborhoods and the fact its such a walkable city and the food...
Seattle has its own feel to it - I love its location and the multitude of fun outdoorsy stuff to do in the NW.

As long as you enjoyed it, I'd say go for it!


Guys, just wondering, do you guys notice that a lot of us are interviewing at more programs than usual?
I swear, at every interview, I would end up chatting with at least 2-3 applicants who have interviewed at most of the programs I visited. Based on the logistics given by some programs (ie how many applicants they are planning to interview), I can certainly say that I have somehow met 1/3 or even 1/2 of the applicants of a couple programs over the past couple months. Small world... small world.

 

[LEdaddy]

.

UW had the university hospital, county, and VA model which gives you a broad experience. They are very strong on medical psychiatry so if your interest is consultation-liaison or geriatrics look no further. If you are interested in health services, healthcare delivery, epidemiology they are very strong here. Massive program - am not sure the same sorts of people who would be happy at Northwestern would be happy here. They are more biologically orientated with evidence-based psychotherapies - less emphasis on psychodynamics more CBT, DBT, IPT etc. You will work hard here and there is call all 4 years.

Mayo I don't know much about but it doesn't have a strong reputation in psychiatry it has a name brand but that is primarily for medicine and is largely historical and I'm not sure the sort of person who would be happy in a city like chicago would be so happy in Rochester. I cant imagine they emphasize psychotherapy as much as other places where people are willing to pay psychiatrists for it (i.e. New York, Boston, Bay Area)

Based on what Dr. Cowley said and what the website suggests, one can get significant psychodynamic training at UW. The residents get to choose what emphasis they want to take in their therapy focus. I met some PGY4s there who were even going on to get psychoanalytic training. Perhaps some UW residents out there can confirm or correct my impression.

Does Mayo not have a strong Psych reputation? I know they were cited for a match violation last year, but I've talked to at least two people who went to med school there who had positive things to say about the department.

 

[SmallBird]

Does Mayo not have a strong Psych reputation? I know they were cited for a match violation last year, but I've talked to at least two people who went to med school there who had positive things to say about the department.

My own understanding about Mayo Psych is very much in line with what Splik said. In addition, I know that their neurology residency is really top notch, particularly, they have fantastic behavioral neurology. Perhaps co-incidentally, it does seem that where there are areas of overlap between the two fields, (for example in the case of alzheimer's disease) neurology seems to dominate both in terms of research and clinically speaking.

 

[splik]

I am sure you would get great training at the Mayo but I am also sure that the 'Mayo' brand elevates the program far above the substance. I would not regard it as one of the top programs in the country, certainly not as an academic department. That is not to say it isn't a great program.

 

[atsai3]

I met some PGY4s there who were even going on to get psychoanalytic training. Perhaps some UW residents out there can confirm or correct my impression.

Many UW residents use elective time (or nights) for additional training. Not just psychodynamic, but also DBT, Bupe certification, etc.

 

[splik]

I was told at UW that 'if you want to get good psychoanalytic training you will have to get it elsewhere' and I was also told the psychodynamic component was the weakest part of the training (although the supervision was apparently excellent). You will of course get experience in brief analytic therapy here, and there is enough flexibility you could spent lots of time getting psychotherapy experience. But the fact is there are many other programs which emphasize psychodynamics and if that is something someone really wants from their residency they are probably better off going to one of the New York or Boston programs (or Yale). Of course if you really want to be an analyst or whatever you would have to do many years of further training after residency, so it really doesn't matter all that much how much emphasis was placed on it during residency.

 

[OldPsychDoc]

My own understanding about Mayo Psych is very much in line with what Splik said. In addition, I know that their neurology residency is really top notch, particularly, they have fantastic behavioral neurology. Perhaps co-incidentally, it does seem that where there are areas of overlap between the two fields, (for example in the case of alzheimer's disease) neurology seems to dominate both in terms of research and clinically speaking.

I think you'd find that the Consult/Liason experience at Mayo is amazing, and the faculty are very good. But beyond The Clinic, your outpatient base is pretty standard small-city Midwest fare. IMHO, the 2 programs in Mpls-St Paul have as much to offer, though lacking the internationally recognized brand.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Many UW residents use elective time (or nights) for additional training. Not just psychodynamic, but also DBT, Bupe certification, etc.

Bupe certification can be done in your sleep. Anyone using elective time for this is looking to catch up on zzzzz's or party. Elective time dedicated to psychotherapy would be nice.

 

[notdeadyet]

I think you'd find that the Consult/Liason experience at Mayo is amazing, and the faculty are very good. But beyond The Clinic, your outpatient base is pretty standard small-city Midwest fare. IMHO, the 2 programs in Mpls-St Paul have as much to offer, though lacking the internationally recognized brand.

For the little that it's worth, out in California, I've heard more about the reputation of UMN and Hennepin's psych programs than Mayo's. I'm cautious about reading a great program for a specific residency just based on the rep of the hospital.

 

[notdeadyet]

But the fact is there are many other programs which emphasize psychodynamics and if that is something someone really wants from their residency they are probably better off going to one of the New York or Boston programs (or Yale). Of course if you really want to be an analyst or whatever you would have to do many years of further training after residency, so it really doesn't matter all that much how much emphasis was placed on it during residency.

I'm not sure I'd paint soo strong a brush geographically when it comes to psychodynamics. UCSF, for instance, has a much stronger emphasis on psychodynamics than many of the Boston and NY programs. The idea that East Coast programs are psychodynamic and West Coast is biological (and non-coastal programs just don't get mentioned) is an idea that's a bit stale....

 

[nancysinatra]

I think you'd find that the Consult/Liason experience at Mayo is amazing, and the faculty are very good. But beyond The Clinic, your outpatient base is pretty standard small-city Midwest fare. IMHO, the 2 programs in Mpls-St Paul have as much to offer, though lacking the internationally recognized brand.

Mayo child psych has been known to get referrals from around the country. I don't know about adult; that would seem kind of surprising.

It's true they don't emphasize psychotherapy as much, but they have great research opportunities, and I imagine the C/L opportunities are more interesting than the bread and butter stuff we have no end to at my program's county hospital and VA. I think it's true that neuro trumps psych there, but that can have advantages during intern year, and on C/L.

I don't know why people are always so down on Rochester--it's a nice city and very affordable. Your car is way less likely to get broken into there than it is in, say, New Haven. Plus they have some really beautiful buildings. Believe me, when you are doing your 50th overnight call in a grungy worn down hospital ER somewhere else in the country, with bullet holes in the windows and broken plastic chairs, you will be thinking you wish YOUR hospital had historic preserved elevators and glistening marble walls like Mayo does.

However, BEWARE--they also have a "Protocol" department. Meaning a crazy dress code.

 

[atethesun]

Mayo child psych has been known to get referrals from around the country. I don't know about adult; that would seem kind of surprising.

It's true they don't emphasize psychotherapy as much, but they have great research opportunities, and I imagine the C/L opportunities are more interesting than the bread and butter stuff we have no end to at my program's county hospital and VA. I think it's true that neuro trumps psych there, but that can have advantages during intern year, and on C/L.

I don't know why people are always so down on Rochester--it's a nice city and very affordable. Your car is way less likely to get broken into there than it is in, say, New Haven. Plus they have some really beautiful buildings. Believe me, when you are doing your 50th overnight call in a grungy worn down hospital ER somewhere else in the country, with bullet holes in the windows and broken plastic chairs, you will be thinking you wish YOUR hospital had historic preserved elevators and glistening marble walls like Mayo does.

However, BEWARE--they also have a "Protocol" department. Meaning a crazy dress code.

Ya, Mayo does have a very strong Child Psych program and I loooooooved the attendings I met there.

 

[pinkladies]

I'd love some help with my list too... At the top (in no particular order) I've got MGH/McLean, Northwestern, UW and Mayo. I'm also looking for a solid, well-rounded program (with opportunities for great therapy training). I'm not sure yet if I see myself in private practice or academics... right now I like both. Geography-wise, I'd rank Chicago>Seattle>Boston>Rochester but I'd say the positive attributes of a particular program could make up for a less favored (or more expensive) location.

What do you guys think about Stanford?


(Mayo's dress code is really not that bad... at least for women who can wear dressy sweaters/blouses instead of a suit.

 

[LEdaddy]

What do you guys think of Stanford?

In a nutshell:

New PD, so things may be changing (for the better?)

Rep is more bio-focused than UCSF, which has stronger community and psychotherapy focus.

Less socioeconomic diversity in patient population with private and va predominantly.

Likely more cushy residency than other similarly competitive programs.

 

[Crystal8]

"UCSF" on this thread is referring to the SF campus, I assume? Does anyone have any thoughts or info on the UCSF-Fresno program? I have a bunch of programs I'd be happy at, but just got off their wait-list and invited to interview. Worth it to check out?

 

[atethesun]

How would you guys compare the Ohio programs?
U Cincinnati vs Case in particular.
Although I haven't rotated there, they both have good reputation with their Child Psych.
What do you guys thin?

 

[SmallBird]

I don't know anything about Cincinnati, and I can only comment on Case Western from my interview impression - but it certainly did make a good impression. The program director was extremely helpful and seemed dedicated, as did the assistant program director. University Hospital, where you do internal medicine, is really quite a beautiful building, and must be a great place to work. Additionally, if you are interested in Child Psych, their wards are in the same complex and looked really fantastic.

The disadvantages I would think could come in if you had strong research interests. My friend interviewed their in neurology, and seemed to think they had great clinical as well as basic neuroscience research, which suggests their would be scope to get involved with this kind of thing, but it doesn't come across as being a strong point.

 

[psych]

Is anyone else having the problem program "A" #1 the rest tied for 10th? Sighhhh.