Lets Be Realistic - a D in Organic Chem

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MedicToMD

MedicToMD

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I realize this place is a huge depressant most of the time; but, I am putting this out there in case there are some grounded people with actual insight.

Background: Late 20's, non-trad, non-science undergrad, have worked as a paramedic for the last 8 years, decided to continue and pursue medicine about two years ago at which time I began my science prerequisites. I have tons of medical experience, ECs, life experiences, great LORs, etc...

Through Bio, physics, gen chem, micro, and a few other courses, my sGPA is ~3.0 and cGPA ~3.2.

I began OChem I last year and ended up withdrawing, taking the "W" on my transcript. I retook OChem I last quarter and made a D.

I had planned on taking OChem II this quarter and taking the MCAT either in Jan or March (looking more like March).

I'm realistic in where I stand with my (lack of) competitiveness. I have already made the decision that I will apply to a few SMPs and post-baccs, as I feel I need it to make it into a school, and also for my development.

THE QUESTIONS

1) Should I go ahead and take Org II, leaving the D from Org I as is for now and apply to the post-baccs/SMPs I've picked out? What are the chances of making it into a post-bacc/SMP with a D?

2) Should I retake Org I first (would be my THIRD time) then II, which would push me back further (another year).

3) Since I technically passed Org I with a D, is it possible to both retake Org I AND take Org II at the same time?

Suggestions, critiques, any help appreciated.
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MedicToMD said:
1) Should I go ahead and take Org II, leaving the D from Org I as is for now and apply to the post-baccs/SMPs I've picked out? What are the chances of making it into a post-bacc/SMP with a D?

2) Should I retake Org I first (would be my THIRD time) then II, which would push me back further (another year).

3) Since I technically passed Org I with a D, is it possible to both retake Org I AND take Org II at the same time?

Suggestions, critiques, any help appreciated.
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1) No - med schools don't accept Cs or below for pre-reqs. So you will have to retake it at some point anyways
2) Yes - you have to. You don't have a choice unless you wanna go to Carib, and they might take Ds for pre-reqs
3) Probably not - and seen as you have to retake and get a C or better; and you are adding another hard class on top of it; that spells a recipe for 2 Fs
 
I would suggest paying extra-close attention to the instructor and look around for where to re-(re-)take Orgo I. No subject seems to produce as varied results based on the instructor as orgo, so you may have partly suffered from subpar teaching. Your big, bad red 'danger' sign is always an instructor whose philosophy is, "if it's in the textbook, it's in the exam".

I also suggest reading Organic Chemistry as a Second Language I by David Klein during your next iteration of the course. Klein breaks things down very well -- so simply, I'm afraid, that if you still can't get it the third time round with Klein's assistance, you probably should either abandon or at least interrupt your pursuit of med school.
 
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Any SMP that lets you into it with lower grade requirements than what med schools accept is not a good SMP

(i.e. somewhere that accepts a D in orgo, and med schools require C and better)
 
MedicToMD said:
I realize this place is a huge depressant most of the time; but, I am putting this out there in case there are some grounded people with actual insight.

Background: Late 20's, non-trad, non-science undergrad, have worked as a paramedic for the last 8 years, decided to continue and pursue medicine about two years ago at which time I began my science prerequisites. I have tons of medical experience, ECs, life experiences, great LORs, etc...

Through Bio, physics, gen chem, micro, and a few other courses, my sGPA is ~3.0 and cGPA ~3.2.

I began OChem I last year and ended up withdrawing, taking the "W" on my transcript. I retook OChem I last quarter and made a D.

I had planned on taking OChem II this quarter and taking the MCAT either in Jan or March (looking more like March).

I'm realistic in where I stand with my (lack of) competitiveness. I have already made the decision that I will apply to a few SMPs and post-baccs, as I feel I need it to make it into a school, and also for my development.

THE QUESTIONS

1) Should I go ahead and take Org II, leaving the D from Org I as is for now and apply to the post-baccs/SMPs I've picked out? What are the chances of making it into a post-bacc/SMP with a D?

2) Should I retake Org I first (would be my THIRD time) then II, which would push me back further (another year).

3) Since I technically passed Org I with a D, is it possible to both retake Org I AND take Org II at the same time?

Suggestions, critiques, any help appreciated.
Click to expand...

If you are getting such low grades, especially when you should have matured from the early "party" phase many college students go through, there are fundamental studying handicaps you must address before attending any SMP or Med school for that matter. If you think you're studying capabilities will be any different in medical school, you are fooling yourself. Re-take the orgo and understand why you are not doing well in it, bad professors are not a good excuse for getting such a low grade. Team-up with students that seem to have had success in his class and ask them to tutor you. After 2 near failures in the same class, you will need to pull off a significant change before you become competitive for med school; it is a huge red flag for adcoms.
 
chayo234 said:
If you are getting such low grades, especially when you should have matured from the early "party" phase many college students go through, there are fundamental studying handicaps you must address before attending any SMP or Med school for that matter. If you think you're studying capabilities will be any different in medical school, you are fooling yourself. Re-take the orgo and understand why you are not doing well in it, bad professors are not a good excuse for getting such a low grade. Team-up with students that seem to have had success in his class and ask them to tutor you. After 2 near failures in the same class, you will need to pull off a significant change before you become competitive for med school; it is a huge red flag for adcoms.
Click to expand...

This is the exact reason I put the disclaimer in the opening of my original post.

Some people, while pursuing medicine, have other things going on in life, such as working full time, schooling full time, studying for the MCAT,... Or maybe that's just me.

It would be nice if everyone pursuing med school did not have to work (or be in Afghanistan in my case) or could dedicate 12hrs a day to the cause--but it's not realistic and logistically impossible for people in my situation. It's not a, "does not have the study skills required" issue. It's a logistical issue. Please don't be that closed-minded person.

It's not about, "maturing from the party days," or, "fooling" myself.

Posts like the opening of yours are of no value and absolutely do nothing for the original question posed.
 
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robflanker said:
Any SMP that lets you into it with lower grade requirements than what med schools accept is not a good SMP

(i.e. somewhere that accepts a D in orgo, and med schools require C and better)
Click to expand...

Thought of this also. I still would plan on retaking Org 1, just wondering if I should do it now rather than proceeding with Org 2 just to be able to apply to the post-baccs/SMPs I have identified.

And I supposed I just answered my own question...
 
MedicToMD said:
This is the exact reason I put the disclaimer in the opening of my original post.

Some people, while pursuing medicine, have other things going on in life, such as working full time, schooling full time, studying for the MCAT, as well as being in the middle of a war in Afghanistan. Or maybe that's just me.

It would be nice if everyone pursuing med school did not have to work (or be in Afghanistan in my case) or could dedicate 12hrs a day to the cause--but it's not realistic and logistically impossible for people in my situation. It's not a, "does not have the study skills required" issue. It's a logistical issue. Please don't be that closed-minded person.

It's not about, "maturing from the party days," or, "fooling" myself.

Posts like the opening of yours are of no value and absolutely do nothing for the original question posed.
Click to expand...

What disclaimer? You asked for critiques. You seem to be telling yourself that it is ok to get get average grades because you have spectacular extra-curriculars. While it is amazing that you have dedicated and sacrificed so much of your life for these pursuits, it does not make it ok to blame those issues for your bad grades. Many of us have sacrificed and put ourselves into years of debt in order for a CHANCE to pursue medicine.

I am not sure how the military works in the country, so I cannot comment on your obligation to that commitment; however, realize that you cannot have everything, and you must make sacrifices in an area or find support somewhere in order to achieve your goal.

I have already mentioned that you most likely will be better off by retaking that course and doing extremely well in it. If organic chemistry is difficult, you will not make it past rigorous courses like medical physiology, pharmacology, etc. which basically incorporates those subjects into medicine. If you are settling for an easier specialty, then you might be able to squeeze by medical school but most people dream of doing extremely well in medical school, which requires fundamentals.
 
Goucher2013 said:
I would suggest paying extra-close attention to the instructor and look around for where to re-(re-)take Orgo I. No subject seems to produce as varied results based on the instructor as orgo, so you may have partly suffered from subpar teaching. Your big, bad red 'danger' sign is always an instructor whose philosophy is, "if it's in the textbook, it's in the exam".

I also suggest reading Organic Chemistry as a Second Language I by David Klein during your next iteration of the course. Klein breaks things down very well -- so simply, I'm afraid, that if you still can't get it the third time round with Klein's assistance, you probably should either abandon or at least interrupt your pursuit of med school.
Click to expand...

I do actually agree with you on this. Many do no, I'm aware.

The Doom and Gloom say exactly that: "if you have a book, you should be able to learn AND UNDERSTAND it."

It's an understatement to say this is anything but the truth. Learning environment and methodology have tremendous impacts on leaning and understanding and preparing.

Thank you, I'm considering that option, also.

I'm not one to make excuses and I will gladly own up to my failures. But the issue I am finding is that I feel I grasp the actual material and I understand it well enough to do well in the course. I do great on MCAT review and testing areas for Orgo MCAT prep, also. I do fine on the semester material and unit material week to week in the class. However, the final exam (which equates to 60% of the course grade where I'm taking it), is nearly impossible. At least it has been for me.

There is a disconnect there between doing well on everything but the final and having my course grade suffer because of that. Unfortunately due to my circumstances, I'm limited on where I can take Organic.
 
MedicToMD said:
Linkage or partnerships with MC?

I'll take a look. I remember looking at this when I made my list originally. There may have been a reason I didn't put this on my list--maybe taking another look will jog my memory...
Click to expand...

There are no linkages with MC. We have close ties with William-Carey DO school and UMC, but UMC requires residency within MS. If you are a resident of LS, then LSU-Shreveport becomes a good option as well.
 
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MedicToMD said:
The Doom and Gloom say exactly that: "if you have a book, you should be able to learn AND UNDERSTAND it."

It's an understatement to say this is anything but the truth. Learning environment and methodology have tremendous impacts on leaning and understanding and preparing.
Click to expand...
Whether its right or not is irrelevant - in med school, they will shove crap at you and expect you to memorize it... in whatever form they present it to you... its not always in the ideal way for each student. It just sucks and you take it.

So yes, if you are given a book, you have to understand it. Find a way to make it work. Buy a diff book, watch podcasts, watch youtube videos (actually great for some subjects), but you have to find a way to digest that book. It sucks but its what happens in med school
 
Chayo, you clearly do not understand what I am saying. I am not justifying mediocre grades in the least. Quite the opposite, actually. Read above. I do not make excuses nor justify my actions. All I was asking for was the best route to take, without having to listen to condescending 23 year olds tell me how much they have "sacrificed" to get to where they are or how I have no idea what to expect.

It's best we don't have that discussion because I promise it will not go in your favor, or anyone else's.

Instead, I will just thank you for your few actual lines of advice that you provided (and, yes, I did find some of your posting helpful) and move along.

Thank you.
 
robflanker said:
Whether its right or not is irrelevant - in med school, they will shove crap at you and expect you to memorize it... in whatever form they present it to you... its not always in the ideal way for each student. It just sucks and you take it.

So yes, if you are given a book, you have to understand it. Find a way to make it work. Buy a diff book, watch podcasts, watch youtube videos (actually great for some subjects), but you have to find a way to digest that book. It sucks but its what happens in med school
Click to expand...

Oh, no, I get that. But your last comments illustrate how to make it work. It's all about finding ways to grasp the knowledge. I get that.
 
chayo234 said:
There are no linkages with MC. We have close ties with William-Carey DO school and UMC, but UMC requires residency within MS. If you are a resident of LS, then LSU-Shreveport becomes a good option as well.
Click to expand...

Very good. Thank you.
 
Stay away from MC unless you are a resident of MS or LA. It cant help you much if you dont have that. OP needs retakes then a good smp
 
WorldChanger36 said:
Stay away from MC unless you are a resident of MS or LA. It cant help you much if you dont have that. OP needs retakes then a good smp
Click to expand...

Yes, I looked at MC again. Not exactly what I'm looking for.
 
False alarm. Managed to bring my grade up to a C. All is right with the world again.
 
My cause for not posting here ever is only magnified by the sheer douchebaggery replies in this thread.

As if no one matriculates with a W and a retake. (No D, for the record, as you pointed out).

It would be nice to have a forum where one poses a question and receives actual and helpful suggestions rather than what 90% of replies are on SDN. It's a constant "my D is bigger than yours," contest. Sickening really. Maybe someone will start a message/resource website and board that can be used in a positive way. What an idea.

To the few that don't fall into that category, thank you.

/thread
 
MedicToMD said:
My cause for not posting here ever is only magnified by the sheer douchebaggery replies in this thread.

As if no one matriculates with a W and a retake. (No D, for the record, as you pointed out).
Click to expand...
Take the stick out of your ass.

Just pointing out that a W to a C is not a win; I got grilled on the Cs I got, even when I retook them and got As. So I was giving you a heads up on it.

And no-one said you wouldn't matriculate
 
robflanker said:
Take the stick out of your ass.

Just pointing out that a W to a C is not a win; I got grilled on the Cs I got, even when I retook them and got As. So I was giving you a heads up on it.

And no-one said you wouldn't matriculate
Click to expand...

Appreciated. Just the negativity (not personally directed at you) on this board is ridiculous as times. It should be the opposite of that, IMO. But too many times it seems people are only on here to trash each other in a sense that everyone here is in a competition.

Again I'll say, I do appreciate the heads up and useful information from you or anyone else. Thats how it should be.
 
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