General Let's Talk Money

[IntriguedStudent]

With April 15th rapidly approaching, many of us have already decided on a school or will be making a decision very soon. Although there are many factors that go into making your decision, money seems to be a big one for most people. I personally have chosen to attend an out of state school that will require me to take on a decent debt load. I already have quite a bit of debt from my undergrad, so the thought of this is beginning to wear on me. How is everybody planning to handle the debt load? The cost of education for most schools is pretty high and public health is not known to be a very lucrative field. Whether you're planning to work during school or participate in some sort of loan forgiveness program, post about it here! Hopefully this can help others like us that are beginning to worry about the debt.

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[rpflash100]

Thank you IS. I was hoping to cry, and for my debt to just disappear...
Honestly, I'm fairly lucky that I am a veteran and get GI Bill benefits. Unfortunately, the GI Bill won't cover everything and I am hoping to get a Yellow Ribbon grant. If not, or if I go to UIC, it will be loans and work.

The job that I have now, well that I will start 6 Apr, does 90% reimbursement, but even that wouldn't be enough to pay for everything, because of gov't caps.

 

[KPZ]

Yes this is something I am questioning as well. I am comparing 2 schools, and this is what I've put together. I'm posting all of this to maybe help with someone else who is trying to parse this out, but of course input is welcome.

1. Cost of Living in ATL is 17% greater than STL. Also, in their calculation of need Emory actually calculated LESS for living and transportation expenses. So, basically with the loans I'll be taking out, I'll have a $10k greater "after tax" "salary" going to WashU than Emory (the money I'll be living on; obviously it's loans so it's the real #). That is a considerably different quality of life, but it is only for 2 years.

2. Surface level cost of Emory is about $40k more than WashU. IF, however, I end up in public service (which, with an MPH, that is almost always the case), I would qualify for ICR payments with the 10 year loan forgiveness. Based on these calculations and a projected salary of $50k, I'd actually only end up paying $10k more for Emory.

3. Another consideration is that while Emory has given me $2k in pretty much guaranteed income per semester through the REAL program (though not everyone in the REAL program even gets a job!), I've applied to 2 fellowships at WashU that would actually be $2800/semester AND another fellowship that could increase my funding by $20k if I am selected as 1 of the 4 recipients (not banking on the second one). The difference is that in the REAL program, I'll probably be working where I would want to work doing what I would want to do. The fellowships I applied to are close but not exact at WashU.

4. Total loans at WashU to cover tuition, fees, and CoL would be a little less than $60k. At Emory, right at $100k.

5. Employment data at both schools is pretty comparable at least at the surface level, with WashU beign a very slightly lower placement % but a slightly higher average salary. The difference is the extensive network of Emory, but I'm wondering if maybe WashU is being sold short. WashU has top programs in pretty much everything else, and their med school trumps Emory by far. While the public health network at Emory is undoubtedly much more extensive and impressive, the overall network at WashU could be even more so (though I haven't confirmed this, still waiting to visit). Basically, though, I doubt there would be much difference in salary, but maybe in opportunities.

My main question is this: How likely is it that public service loan forgiveness will still be around for 10 years?

 

[rpflash100]

And, of course, for some of us there will be more debt incurred in pursuit of a PhD... Yikes!

 

[IntriguedStudent]

My main question is this: How likely is it that public service loan forgiveness will still be around for 10 years?

That's really the big question. I hope to be able to participate in PSLF, but who knows if it will even still be around when we graduate in 2 years? The program almost seems too good to be true. Sure, you make less on average working in a public service position than you would working in industry, but most MPH grads are going to go into that type of career anyways. Plus, unlike other governmental loan forgiveness programs, the amount forgiven is not taxed as income. I'm just hoping we can get in before any changes get made and we can get "grandfathered" in.

And, of course, for some of us there will be more debt incurred in pursuit of a PhD... Yikes!

True. If I do decide to go for my PhD, I think my only option will end up being a fully funded program. It just won't be feasible for me to take on even more debt for the type of salary I would come out of it with.

Thank you IS. I was hoping to cry, and for my debt to just disappear...
Honestly, I'm fairly lucky that I am a veteran and get GI Bill benefits. Unfortunately, the GI Bill won't cover everything and I am hoping to get a Yellow Ribbon grant. If not, or if I go to UIC, it will be loans and work.

The job that I have now, well that I will start 6 Apr, does 90% reimbursement, but even that wouldn't be enough to pay for everything, because of gov't caps.

It's good to hear that you'll be entering a job with reimbursement. Did you find that before or after you decided to pursue your MPH?

 

[rpflash100]

That's really the big question. I hope to be able to participate in PSLF, but who knows if it will even still be around when we graduate in 2 years? The program almost seems too good to be true. Sure, you make less on average working in a public service position than you would working in industry, but most MPH grads are going to go into that type of career anyways. Plus, unlike other governmental loan forgiveness programs, the amount forgiven is not taxed as income. I'm just hoping we can get in before any changes get made and we can get "grandfathered" in.

True. If I do decide to go for my PhD, I think my only option will end up being a fully funded program. It just won't be feasible for me to take on even more debt for the type of salary I would come out of it with.

It's good to hear that you'll be entering a job with reimbursement. Did you find that before or after you decided to pursue your MPH?

I began looking for jobs as soon as I finished my undergrad back in December. I got lucky with the tuition assistance from my job, I didn't look for it. Of course, that means I'd have to attend GW or Mason, and I'd have to work and go to school; which I planned on doing.

Also, Most of the PhD programs that I've looked into are fully, most fully funded. I wouldn't even entertain one that isn't. However, the living cost don't go away, and I don't know the feasibility of working while in a funded PhD program. But, I'm not pursuing this to make money, I guess (I'm a non-trad student).

 

[asseenontv]

I'm having the same dilemma as well:

1) UMich offered me half off out-of-state tuition and I calculated that I would save around ~$17,500 over 2 years (included estimates of living expenses) if I went here instead of Emory and federal work study of $3,000 a year. Seems like the only jobs are on campus or helping professors do research. It's a very research-heavy program it seems...which I am not too sure about.

2) I just moved to ATL 6 months ago and I could continue working at the CDC as a fellow (I'd get paid more than working a REAL position) and go to Emory (but might be hard to balance everything) with no scholarship money. I got the $4,000/yr REAL grant though so I could potentially work a REAL job and keep the part-time fellowship at the CDC or just get two jobs which seems to be the norm for these students...If I stay in ATL, I think my parents might consider purchasing a townhome for retirement and I can stay there for the two years and pay them rent? I think ATL cost of living is def cheaper than Ann Arbor

I think in the long run, I need to consider where I want to end up and where my connections will be and I see ATL being more realistic and what I want...but is it worth the extra money??

 

[IntriguedStudent]

I began looking for jobs as soon as I finished my undergrad back in December. I got lucky with the tuition assistance from my job, I didn't look for it. Of course, that means I'd have to attend GW or Mason, and I'd have to work and go to school; which I planned on doing.

Also, Most of the PhD programs that I've looked into are fully, most fully funded. I wouldn't even entertain one that isn't. However, the living cost don't go away, and I don't know the feasibility of working while in a funded PhD program. But, I'm not pursuing this to make money, I guess (I'm a non-trad student).

It does seem that most PhD programs are fully funded, especially if you're already coming in with a masters. Living costs are something to consider, but I've never been one that needed much so I'm pretty good at keeping that to a minimum. I'm definitely not in this to make money. I don't think many people go into an MPH expecting to make tons coming out! I just want to love what I do and to be able to provide a comfortable life for me and my family.

 

[rpflash100]

Yup, I have to keep telling myself that. It's for the good of others!

 

[KPZ]

I'm having the same dilemma as well:

1) UMich offered me half off out-of-state tuition and I calculated that I would save around ~$17,500 over 2 years (included estimates of living expenses) if I went here instead of Emory and federal work study of $3,000 a year. Seems like the only jobs are on campus or helping professors do research. It's a very research-heavy program it seems...which I am not too sure about.

2) I just moved to ATL 6 months ago and I could continue working at the CDC as a fellow (I'd get paid more than working a REAL position) and go to Emory (but might be hard to balance everything) with no scholarship money. I got the $4,000/yr REAL grant though so I could potentially work a REAL job and keep the part-time fellowship at the CDC or just get two jobs which seems to be the norm for these students...If I stay in ATL, I think my parents might consider purchasing a townhome for retirement and I can stay there for the two years and pay them rent? I think ATL cost of living is def cheaper than Ann Arbor

I think in the long run, I need to consider where I want to end up and where my connections will be and I see ATL being more realistic and what I want...but is it worth the extra money??

Try using this calculator to see how much more you would *actually* be paying provided you do the ICR payments with loan forgiveness (cut off at 120 months instead of whatever this says).
https://studentloans.gov/myDirectLoan/mobile/repayment/repaymentEstimator.action

 

[KPZ]

This was shared regarding the loan forgiveness on the other forum and I am putting it here for future browsers: http://educatedrisk.org/analysis/public-service-loan-forgiveness-real

 

[Vespasian]

And, of course, for some of us there will be more debt incurred in pursuit of a PhD... Yikes!

There are post-doc programs that may be helpful to some people too:

https://www.lrp.nih.gov/index.aspx

I haven't done too much research on NIH Loan forgiveness but there was a post-doc in my research lab who used the program to pay off his loan debt. His masters was in general psych and his PhD was in experimental psych.

Edit: https://www.lrp.nih.gov/resources/LRP_success_stories.aspx

There's a success story on there that may be relevant- MPH in Community Health Sciences and PhD in public health.

 

[backwardinduction]

I've chosen Harvard's MS as it will give myself and my partner the best opportunities in life from what I can tell. I'm taking out full loans to do it, which is a big risk, but sometimes life is about taking risks.

I hope that I'll be able to qualify for some sort of research job for the 2nd semester, summer, or 2nd year to help manage some of the costs. I also hope to enter Harvard's doctoral program immediately following my masters, since I've always planned on getting my doctorate, and in that case TA jobs, and funding would be much more likely. Harvard also has a huge tuition discount rate for doctoral students based on how long they've been at the school, so by my second year in the doctoral program, my tuition would just be $5,000 per year (I think, I need to check the numbers), so combined with any funding, I'd probably be set from there.

 

[IntriguedStudent]

These are some great posts everybody! Hopefully this information will be useful to both current borrowers and future borrowers.

 

[Stories]

There are post-doc programs that may be helpful to some people too:

https://www.lrp.nih.gov/index.aspx

I haven't done too much research on NIH Loan forgiveness but there was a post-doc in my research lab who used the program to pay off his loan debt. His masters was in general psych and his PhD was in experimental psych.

Edit: https://www.lrp.nih.gov/resources/LRP_success_stories.aspx

There's a success story on there that may be relevant- MPH in Community Health Sciences and PhD in public health.

As a heads up here: NIH post-docs are not employees. So they're not eligible for this program. You have to be elevated/promoted to a Research Fellow (FTE) before this option is available.

 

[Stories]

I'm having the same dilemma as well:

1) UMich offered me half off out-of-state tuition and I calculated that I would save around ~$17,500 over 2 years (included estimates of living expenses) if I went here instead of Emory and federal work study of $3,000 a year. Seems like the only jobs are on campus or helping professors do research. It's a very research-heavy program it seems...which I am not too sure about.

2) I just moved to ATL 6 months ago and I could continue working at the CDC as a fellow (I'd get paid more than working a REAL position) and go to Emory (but might be hard to balance everything) with no scholarship money. I got the $4,000/yr REAL grant though so I could potentially work a REAL job and keep the part-time fellowship at the CDC or just get two jobs which seems to be the norm for these students...If I stay in ATL, I think my parents might consider purchasing a townhome for retirement and I can stay there for the two years and pay them rent? I think ATL cost of living is def cheaper than Ann Arbor

I think in the long run, I need to consider where I want to end up and where my connections will be and I see ATL being more realistic and what I want...but is it worth the extra money??

My opinion is if you want to live in ATL long term, Emory is a great choice and will setup your network quite nicely. Emory has many collaborations with CDC and that may also be a great network to access, as well. I think about $20k isn't an uncomfortable amount of loan--but that amount has to be considered relative to the rest of your loans plus your current financial (and your spouse's) situation, as well.

Would you buy a $20k car and pay those payments okay? Would would happen if your car payment was 2, 3, or 4x that? Could you afford the quality of life you'd like? I think it's always a bit safer to underestimate what your future income will be, as that will leave you in a safer spot. Consider what type of job you'd like in the future, and also plan for the possibility of being out of work for 6+ months while looking for the right opportunity and having enough money saved up to survive on that (or a limited income).

I think there's no right answer with finances. Every decision plays a big role:

-What type of job do you want in the future? What is that job's income right out of school and after you've developed?
-Where do you want to live? How much does cost of living factor in there?
-Do you have a spouse with another income? Do you have children?
-Is owning a home important to you? Do possessions matter?

All of these questions are very personal and play a large role in what you can reasonably afford to take out and how you react to risk.

 

[Stories]

Yes this is something I am questioning as well. I am comparing 2 schools, and this is what I've put together. I'm posting all of this to maybe help with someone else who is trying to parse this out, but of course input is welcome.

1. Cost of Living in ATL is 17% greater than STL. Also, in their calculation of need Emory actually calculated LESS for living and transportation expenses. So, basically with the loans I'll be taking out, I'll have a $10k greater "after tax" "salary" going to WashU than Emory (the money I'll be living on; obviously it's loans so it's the real #). That is a considerably different quality of life, but it is only for 2 years.

2. Surface level cost of Emory is about $40k more than WashU. IF, however, I end up in public service (which, with an MPH, that is almost always the case), I would qualify for ICR payments with the 10 year loan forgiveness. Based on these calculations and a projected salary of $50k, I'd actually only end up paying $10k more for Emory.

3. Another consideration is that while Emory has given me $2k in pretty much guaranteed income per semester through the REAL program (though not everyone in the REAL program even gets a job!), I've applied to 2 fellowships at WashU that would actually be $2800/semester AND another fellowship that could increase my funding by $20k if I am selected as 1 of the 4 recipients (not banking on the second one). The difference is that in the REAL program, I'll probably be working where I would want to work doing what I would want to do. The fellowships I applied to are close but not exact at WashU.

4. Total loans at WashU to cover tuition, fees, and CoL would be a little less than $60k. At Emory, right at $100k.

5. Employment data at both schools is pretty comparable at least at the surface level, with WashU beign a very slightly lower placement % but a slightly higher average salary. The difference is the extensive network of Emory, but I'm wondering if maybe WashU is being sold short. WashU has top programs in pretty much everything else, and their med school trumps Emory by far. While the public health network at Emory is undoubtedly much more extensive and impressive, the overall network at WashU could be even more so (though I haven't confirmed this, still waiting to visit). Basically, though, I doubt there would be much difference in salary, but maybe in opportunities.

My main question is this: How likely is it that public service loan forgiveness will still be around for 10 years?

I, and my spouse, have our doubts as to whether or not the loan forgiveness programs will be around in its current incarnation years from now. This is why we're going for one of the more aggressive payment plans to handle the $90k+ in student debt we currently have.

As for your conundrum of WashU vs. Emory--I think you should also consider where you'd like to live. I've personally found that where I live has a huge impact on my happiness, and where you are should at least be a place you're content being. Sometimes finances, while important, shouldn't be the only deciding factor. As for employment statistics, they're only one metric--both have great reputations and if you have good experience and take advantage of your opportunities, you'll have no issue finding something you'd like to do. BUT, if you're not 100% sure what you want to do now, going to a big school with many options is always a good choice since you can always network broadly and explore many training opportunities. Something a smaller program may not be able to offer.

 

[IntriguedStudent]

I, and my spouse, have our doubts as to whether or not the loan forgiveness programs will be around in its current incarnation years from now. This is why we're going for one of the more aggressive payment plans to handle the $90k+ in student debt we currently have.

As for your conundrum of WashU vs. Emory--I think you should also consider where you'd like to live. I've personally found that where I live has a huge impact on my happiness, and where you are should at least be a place you're content being. Sometimes finances, while important, shouldn't be the only deciding factor. As for employment statistics, they're only one metric--both have great reputations and if you have good experience and take advantage of your opportunities, you'll have no issue finding something you'd like to do. BUT, if you're not 100% sure what you want to do now, going to a big school with many options is always a good choice since you can always network broadly and explore many training opportunities. Something a smaller program may not be able to offer.

How difficult have you found handling that amount of debt to be? If I remember correctly, you attended one of the more expensive MPH programs and then chose to pursue a PhD afterwards. Do you feel that having the PhD was necessary to get a job that would allow you to sufficiently pay back the loans you incurred over the course of your education?

 

[Stories]

How difficult have you found handling that amount of debt to be? If I remember correctly, you attended one of the more expensive MPH programs and then chose to pursue a PhD afterwards. Do you feel that having the PhD was necessary to get a job that would allow you to sufficiently pay back the loans you incurred over the course of your education?

I actually didn't have any debt coming out of my degrees (both my MPH and PhD were funded), but my spouse had well over $100k. We've just chipped away at it and realized that it's a multi-year process and it's just something to account for in our expenses. We're fortunate that we don't live an extravagant lifestyle and we don't have children, so we can afford to do that. We're also fortunate to both be employed so we're not struggling. We're, however, not making a ton of headway into savings for a home or any super large purchases.

That said, a PhD was necessary for me because I wanted a research career. I think I could have stopped at my MPH and got a job I wanted, but the job I really wanted required a PhD (at the time, it was a professor). Right now, I've obviously switched a bit into pharma research, but a PhD was needed to make the transition, but this was more motivated by the large hurdles to get into an academic position and the difficulty in getting grants. Having made the switch over, though, I'm enjoying the work thoroughly and working in therapeutics development for grave illness is interesting and motivating (even if the field is very... unstable). It's also a better financial choice than academia.

 

[IntriguedStudent]

I actually didn't have any debt coming out of my degrees (both my MPH and PhD were funded), but my spouse had well over $100k. We've just chipped away at it and realized that it's a multi-year process and it's just something to account for in our expenses. We're fortunate that we don't live an extravagant lifestyle and we don't have children, so we can afford to do that. We're also fortunate to both be employed so we're not struggling. We're, however, not making a ton of headway into savings for a home or any super large purchases.

That said, a PhD was necessary for me because I wanted a research career. I think I could have stopped at my MPH and got a job I wanted, but the job I really wanted required a PhD (at the time, it was a professor). Right now, I've obviously switched a bit into pharma research, but a PhD was needed to make the transition, but this was more motivated by the large hurdles to get into an academic position and the difficulty in getting grants. Having made the switch over, though, I'm enjoying the work thoroughly and working in therapeutics development for grave illness is interesting and motivating (even if the field is very... unstable). It's also a better financial choice than academia.

Receiving full funding for both your MPH and your PhD is amazing! If you would like to share with future borrowers how you accomplished that, feel free to post about it here.

I'm glad to hear that debt like that is manageable. My fiance doesn't have much student loan debt, but I'm going to have quite a bit after this is all over with. Neither of us requires a very extravagant lifestyle and we don't plan on really trying to purchase a home for a while anyways.

 

[Stories]

Receiving full funding for both your MPH and your PhD is amazing! If you would like to share with future borrowers how you accomplished that, feel free to post about it here.

I'm glad to hear that debt like that is manageable. My fiance doesn't have much student loan debt, but I'm going to have quite a bit after this is all over with. Neither of us requires a very extravagant lifestyle and we don't plan on really trying to purchase a home for a while anyways.

For my MPH, I applied and worked as a (full-time) RA and got a tuition waiver (not all schools offer this). For my PhD, I got a NIH fellowship that covered research, stipend, and tuition.

I think the biggest "lifestyle inflation" I've had since graduating is that both I and my spouse bought new cars rather than used cars since we moved to LA ($25k each financed at less than 1.5% APR) and we subscribe to cable TV packages with HBO