Life as a pharmacist with heavy student loan debt

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So, I started working this year as a pharmacist. I owe 210 k in student loans for undergraduate and pharmacy school. I am bringing home roughly $5,600 a month. I am paying $2500 in student loans plus $1300 for an apartment per month. I have $1800 left to cover living expenses, car insurance, utilities, car gas, etc. Luckily, I don't have a mortgage to worry about. OK as a single working professional but not much left over to even raise a family.

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Thats why I live at home. Zero expenses. All I am doing is building capital.
 
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Thats why I live at home. Zero expenses. All I am doing is building capital.

I thought about living at home as well but I don't think I can live with my parents and share a room with my sibling. I try to spend frugally so I am lucky not to have any credit card debt
 
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$5,600 a month before or after taxes? That seems low. I think my take home without any overtime or extra shifts is about $2,900 every 2 weeks.
 
What you need to do is sit down with your accountant & figure out if you are taking too much out in Federal withholding, You may be giving Uncle Sam a very generous interest free loan.
 
What you need to do is sit down with your accountant & figure out if you are taking too much out in Federal withholding, You may be giving Uncle Sam a very generous interest free loan.

Very True, I did this and was able to free up an additional $400/month.

Also, for 1300/month rent you may be able to find a very modest place, especially in this market and get a mortgage for far less per month. My wife and I just bought a home, 30 year fixed @ 3.8%. 172K financed and out the door our payments are $1250.

Renting does buy you freedom though, so if there is a chance you may be moving or wanting to relocate, then don't get tied down somewhere. Homes are very hard to get rid of right now, but if your looking to buy now is the time. Good Luck!
 
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I don't understand why your rent is so high. I pay 900/mo for a 2bedroom in Chicago. Where do you live?
 
Also, for 1300/month rent you may be able to find a very modest place, especially in this market and get a mortgage for far less per month. My wife and I just bought a home, 30 year fixed @ 3.8%. 172K financed and out the door our payments are $1250.

Renting does buy you freedom though, so if there is a chance you may be moving or wanting to relocate, then don't get tied down somewhere. Homes are very hard to get rid of right now, but if your looking to buy now is the time. Good Luck!
I was thinking about it the other day, and I sort of disgusted myself to think that I've dumped $30k into this apartment over the last 3 years, and obviously have no equity. The $800/month I'm spending could be a mortgage for a decent place, but I still don't know what I'm going to do after graduation, so I'll probably have to stick it out for another year.
 
I was thinking about it the other day, and I sort of disgusted myself to think that I've dumped $30k into this apartment over the last 3 years, and obviously have no equity. The $800/month I'm spending could be a mortgage for a decent place, but I still don't know what I'm going to do after graduation, so I'll probably have to stick it out for another year.

Don't let it make you feel sick. I was renting during the whole housing boom and everyone I knew was telling me to buy and if I needed to move I could just flip my house. I was in central Florida, when houses were selling after being on the market for 7 days.

I trusted my instincts and waited, I convinced myself that even though I was not gaining equity, I was purchasing my freedom, so-to-speak. Had I bought then, I would probably have a foreclosure right now, or at least be 100K upside down on a piece of property.

My sister-in-law and her husband purchased a 1 bedroom 700+sq ft Condo just outside Orlando in "06" for 165K...:eek: It has foreclosed and the bank has it listed for 15K and it wont sell. Could you imagine?

If you don't know what your plan is after graduating, hold out a bit and find your path. But as soon as you know, buy something because the rates and prices are stellar. Even though the housing market is still on somewhat of a down-turn, don't try to buy at the very rock-bottom, because by the time you realize it, it will likely be too late. Get something cheap in a good location and you will make some money on it in the future. Good Luck!
 
I would feel like a giant a-hole living with my parents while making $5600/month.

I don't really see how that would automatically be a problem. As long as you are helping with bills/not being a complete leech, it actually seems like a pretty smart move to me. In a situation where your living expenses might be no more than $500 a month or so, that would be some serious debt-reduction power right thur.

For myself, I pulled the trigger on a condo in '06 when I moved to LR (4 years before I wound up applying to UAMS) so I'm somewhat stuck, though I got a decent enough deal overall. Would love to refinance, but it's hard when you technically are a poverty individual...
 
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I don't understand why your rent is so high. I pay 900/mo for a 2bedroom in Chicago. Where do you live?

You have like 500 square feet or is this the deal of the century? I'm in the suburbs of Detroit and am paying $1100/month for 1200 square feet (2 bed/2 bath) and this is below market value. $1300/month for rent isn't that bad depending on how much space the poster has.

What I always tell anyone that is renting is this....Figure out how much you would be paying for interest on a mortgage and compare that to how much you would have to pay in rent. If they are similar, pick your poison, either way you're "throwing money away." Like others have said, these days renting provides a lot more freedom and a lot less responsibility.
 
So, I started working this year as a pharmacist. I owe 210 k in student loans for undergraduate and pharmacy school. I am bringing home roughly $5,600 a month. I am paying $2500 in student loans plus $1300 for an apartment per month. I have $1800 left to cover living expenses, car insurance, utilities, car gas, etc. Luckily, I don't have a mortgage to worry about. OK as a single working professional but not much left over to even raise a family.

You're making $67k/yr? Is that before or after taxes? If that is before taxes then that is way low.

Edit: Okay, $5,600 a month is alright but why is your rent so expensive? That's how much I'm paying now but that's because I live literally next to campus. A one bedroom away from downtown/universities should not cost that much unless you are living in NY or something.
 
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"Taking home" means after taxes, etc...
 
You have like 500 square feet or is this the deal of the century? I'm in the suburbs of Detroit and am paying $1100/month for 1200 square feet (2 bed/2 bath) and this is below market value. $1300/month for rent isn't that bad depending on how much space the poster has.

What I always tell anyone that is renting is this....Figure out how much you would be paying for interest on a mortgage and compare that to how much you would have to pay in rent. If they are similar, pick your poison, either way you're "throwing money away." Like others have said, these days renting provides a lot more freedom and a lot less responsibility.

It's about 800 sq feet and it's a garden unit - 2 bed, 1 bath in the city. Neighborhood is nice, too. I don't think it's the deal of the century. It seemed like a pretty competitive price. I've been a renter for over 10 years in Seattle, San Antonio, Iowa, and Chicagoland - and have never paid anywhere NEAR 1300. I think this is high, unless he's in LA or NYC.
 
I paid 675 a month for a one bedroom apartment in louisiana. This includes water, gas and cable. Its 650 square feet so its not small especially for a me and my dog. I would search for cheaper rent. You're paying twice the amount I pay but then again you're probably living in a higher cost of living area.
 
Student loans, taxes and being responsible (401k/403b) sucks. Get used to it.

PS: the reason his take-home is low is because he's probably being responsible and maxing his 401k/403b at $17,000/year.

PSS: His rent is reasonable for California.

PSSS: Bills aren't all their cracked up to be. Lesson for pre-pharms. You'd have more money as a plumber.
 
So, I started working this year as a pharmacist. I owe 210 k in student loans for undergraduate and pharmacy school. I am bringing home roughly $5,600 a month. I am paying $2500 in student loans plus $1300 for an apartment per month. I have $1800 left to cover living expenses, car insurance, utilities, car gas, etc. Luckily, I don't have a mortgage to worry about. OK as a single working professional but not much left over to even raise a family.

I just don't get this. :idea:. Btw, I am living in the Bay Area, and $1300 for 1 bed room is pretty fancy
 
Wow...that is a lot of student loans, so by the time you're done paying, you will have paid $300K. Eckk. If you could move back home and put that extra $1300 towards loans, you will be able to pay it off in 6 years and maybe $40K less in interest. But maybe living at home is not really an option for you?
 
Wow...that is a lot of student loans, so by the time you're done paying, you will have paid $300K. Eckk. If you could move back home and put that extra $1300 towards loans, you will be able to pay it off in 6 years and maybe $40K less in interest. But maybe living at home is not really an option for you?

I think even 4 years is possible depending on how determined and how much money you make. I paid 53k in 9 months. I was not that frugal and was able to pull it off. Just buy what you need and indulge only once in a while
 
"Taking home" means after taxes, etc...
That's not the same as "bringing home". "Take home" is after taxes, but "bringing home" could mean ability to earn or full or part-time work.
 
$5,600 a month before or after taxes? That seems low. I think my take home without any overtime or extra shifts is about $2,900 every 2 weeks.

$5,600 is after taxes. I live in California where there is a high state income tax and state disability tax.

I don't understand why your rent is so high. I pay 900/mo for a 2bedroom in Chicago. Where do you live?

$1300 for an apt is typical where I live. I can live with a roommate to save money. I am not planning to move because I want to be close to my friends and family.

Don't get me wrong, I am better off than most people. But, after taxes and student loans, it's not much.
 
$5,600 is after taxes. I live in California where there is a high state income tax and state disability tax.



$1300 for an apt is typical where I live. I can live with a roommate to save money. I am not planning to move because I want to be close to my friends and family.

Don't get me wrong, I am better off than most people. But, after taxes and student loans, it's not much.
Have you looked into an older model Honda Insight? We have one and get 50-60MPG in town and 70+ on the interstate. If you take it easy and don't drive aggressively, you should be able to get the same and consequently, reduce the number of times that you have to fill up.

What kind of car insurance do you carry? Can you keep just liability and save the difference?

I would also recommend making your own laundry detergent. I can send you the recipe that we use; it costs 2 cents per load.

If you can stand it, cut off the cable. You get a lot more done without it. :p
 
If you can stand it, cut off the cable. You get a lot more done without it. :p
The only tv I really watch is what's on ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, and even then I probably watch <3 hours a week, so I really couldn't justify spending $50/month for cable.


I would also recommend making your own laundry detergent. I can send you the recipe that we use; it costs 2 cents per load.
I'm interested :)
 
So I have a question... not sure if it really "belongs" here but Im assuming you guys with debt would know a thing or two bout the question.

I just filled out my FAFSA. It says it takes 3 days to process but after I was done it said estimated eligible for 20,500 in a certain loan. (Think it said stafford?). My tuiton is going to be a little over 29,000. So does this mean I have to get private loans to cover the rest or after being processed I might get more/two seperate kinds of loans? I was under the impression the federal loans covered most of tuiton/books and you just got private loans for living expenses. Maybe I was mis-lead but Im hoping to not have to take out a lot of private loans since the interest is so much higher...

Thanks so much !
 
$5,600 a month before or after taxes? That seems low. I think my take home without any overtime or extra shifts is about $2,900 every 2 weeks.

You both make very similar amounts. $2900x2 = $5800. I'm sure the $200 difference probably has to do with some deductions like health insurance or something similar.


Yes, my wife and I are dealing with similar issues. She's the pharmacist and I'm the MD. Our loans are close to $275K total and it's a significant chunk of change each month.
 
I think even 4 years is possible depending on how determined and how much money you make. I paid 53k in 9 months. I was not that frugal and was able to pull it off. Just buy what you need and indulge only once in a while

Yes, it is very possible because I had more than half of that and I paid mine off in 2 years, but I also bring home more. 4 years is probably not possible for OP because in order to pay it off in 4 years, he would have to pay $5000 a month. So with only $600 left a month, there is not much you can do. Six years would be more reasonable.
 
So, I started working this year as a pharmacist. I owe 210 k in student loans for undergraduate and pharmacy school. I am bringing home roughly $5,600 a month. I am paying $2500 in student loans plus $1300 for an apartment per month. I have $1800 left to cover living expenses, car insurance, utilities, car gas, etc. Luckily, I don't have a mortgage to worry about. OK as a single working professional but not much left over to even raise a family.

I am on the same boat. i am taking home about 6 000 a month. 2170 goes to student loans, 840 goes to rent, 421 goes to car payment, and i spend over 400 dollars on gas every month as i am working one hour away. if i add car insurance, cell phone, electricity,and other bills, i dont have much left to spend. it sucks that i am making 6 figures, and yet trying hard to make ends meet
 
That sounds about right. I'm young and single and my budget excluding student loans (because I paid them off already) is $3,500/mo but that does include a mortgage and a $625 car payment. So yeah, that $2,500 going to your loans is going to hamper your lifestyle and finances quite a bit.

Still, I can offer some small tips if you want to save money, because I do believe that every little bit adds up:
- If you're taking home $2,800 every 2 weeks, that's actually $6,066/mo, not $5,600. ($466 extra/mo)
- Get your tax withholdings spot on so you do not get a tax refund at the end of the year. Changing federal withholding from 0 to 2 allowances gives you about $175 extra/mo
- Remember that mortgage interest and property taxes are tax deductible. My mortgage (15 yr), property tax and insurance is $1,970/mo. The deduction saves me about $175/mo in taxes
- Yay for the 2% payroll tax cut! $183/mo
- Make a list of your expenses and scrutinize every line item.
--- Shop around for insurance at every renewal. I just cut my car insurance by $46/mo.
--- TV and internet, you can call your provider and threaten to switch to another company, or actually switch to get their special introductory rates saving you around $60/mo
--- Rationalize landline and cell phone plans maybe reducing by $30/mo
--- Reduce A/C and heating could save you $30-100/mo
- Get a rewards/cash back credit card, use it for everything and pay it off in full every month. They average a bit over 1% return so if you put $1,000/mo on it, you'll get about $10/mo back.

That's just a start and adds up to $1,245/mo already (though most of it is just creative accounting). Still, you get the idea and perhaps other people can chime in with more suggestions/corrections.
 
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You both make very similar amounts. $2900x2 = $5800. I'm sure the $200 difference probably has to do with some deductions like health insurance or something similar.
No. The OP said $5,600 "a month". I take home $6,283 a month ($2900x26=$75400/12=$6,283 a month).

But that's only base for me. I usually take about $9,200 a month home after taxes once you add in overtime and extra shifts from a full-time job and regular plus extra shifts from a part-time job.

That sounds about right. I'm young and single and my budget excluding student loans (because I paid them off already) is $3,500/mo but that does include a mortgage and a $625 car payment. So yeah, that $2,500 going to your loans is going to hamper your lifestyle and finances quite a bit.
That's why I didn't consolidate. I was able to pay off a couple of smaller student loans, which got my monthly payment amount down some*. Once you consolidate, you're stuck with the entire payment every month until the whole new consolidated loan is paid off.
 
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If you just started with the company you work for, most likely you aren't yet getting a 401k match. I wouldn't contribute to it at all until you reach that match point. The interest you're paying off with that size a loan will be a tax haven itself.
I made that mistake myself, contributing 15% each check while really tackling the loans as well, I was scraping by. Luckily I had no where near that kind of loan amount.
At the end of the year, though, may tax refund was HUGE. As OldTimer said, a tax free loan to the gov't.
Free up that cash, annihilate that debt.
 
Hello all!

It is amazing I have not found this forum before today. As a managing partner of a RIA (registered investment advisor) I work with pharmacists (about 70% of my clients) across the US with a concentration in the SE US and this issue is always topic number one for young pharmacists; especially at lecture series I put on at the private pharmacy schools where it is not uncommon to come out with six figures of debt paired with a six figure income :)

What I generally tell my clients or students at the lecture series is there are two things you must do if you are carrying a substantial amount of student loan debt: obtain a CPA and financial advisor (preferably one who works at a RIA instead of a B/D to ensure your advisor works on a fiduciary level, all CPAs work on a fiduciary level). This allows you to implement a strategy that will help you quickly and efficiently pay off your debts so you can then focus on acquiring assets for retirement and other goals you may have.

Although it may be painful to pay both a CPA and an advisor when you are in debt it will greatly benefit you in the long run due to the tax efficiency and accountability these individuals will bring to the table.

For example, a few simple changes to your w4 can yield additional cash to each paycheck that can be allocated to your loans rather that waiting to file taxes and get a refund from the govt (which you allowed to borrow your money at 0% while being charged 4-8% on your loans). As well, if your average loan interest rate is 4.5% you very well could find investment options that would outperform that rate on a tax adjusted basis thus paying above the minimum payment on your loan would take a back seat to savings.

Bottom line: everyone is in a different situation and one must gather the facts take a step back and objectively lay out a plan that will benefit your situation!
 
If you just started with the company you work for, most likely you aren't yet getting a 401k match. I wouldn't contribute to it at all until you reach that match point. The interest you're paying off with that size a loan will be a tax haven itself.
I made that mistake myself, contributing 15% each check while really tackling the loans as well, I was scraping by. Luckily I had no where near that kind of loan amount.
At the end of the year, though, may tax refund was HUGE. As OldTimer said, a tax free loan to the gov't.
Free up that cash, annihilate that debt.

Contributing to a 401k/403b after the match is personal preference.
There is no reason to not contribute to at least the match. That's free money. I hope everyone agrees with me there.
After that it just depends. It's a nice 28% tax savings. I also like to see my savings grow. For me it's also forced savings. Start early so you never miss it. I think it will be good for me in the long term.
I am also of the mold that pay off private loans (especially ones with co-signers) before the Staffords (even if the interest on the Staffords is higher); the reason is two-fold.
One: Eliminate the co-signers liablity
Two: Feds will work with you more than Sallie Mae if some unforeseen negative action occurs in your life.
Three: Who knows what programs the gov't will come up with in the future.
 
It's only a 28% savings if you put that dollar in a stock that retains its one dollar value.
If he's not getting a company match, putting that money toward a loan is a guaranteed 7% otherwise return.
not to mention you have very minimal control over what actual ETFs you are purchasing through company 401ks.
gotta look at the big picture. go with the sure thing. if you get a match, go with it.
otherwise, pay the loan
 
It's only a 28% savings if you put that dollar in a stock that retains its one dollar value.
If he's not getting a company match, putting that money toward a loan is a guaranteed 7% otherwise return.
not to mention you have very minimal control over what actual ETFs you are purchasing through company 401ks.
gotta look at the big picture. go with the sure thing. if you get a match, go with it.
otherwise, pay the loan

As I said; personal preference.
Match first.
Then personal preference second.
Absolutely nothing wrong with going crazy on the loans with a machete and killing those suckers.
 
No. The OP said $5,600 "a month". I take home $6,283 a month ($2900x26=$75400/12=$6,283 a month).

But that's only base for me. I usually take about $9,200 a month home after taxes once you add in overtime and extra shifts from a full-time job and regular plus extra shifts from a part-time job.

Some people say "month" but mean 2 biweekly paychecks.

My wife says that our two biweekly checks is our "monthly" income so we can budget accordingly. Either way, you guys make similar base amounts.

And the OP's expenses are significant enough to cut her 6 figure salary down to size.
 
Some people say "month" but mean 2 biweekly paychecks.

My wife says that our two biweekly checks is our "monthly" income so we can budget accordingly. Either way, you guys make similar base amounts.

And the OP's expenses are significant enough to cut her 6 figure salary down to size.
Funny... It's not the same. Go ask a lender. ;) And you can expect 3 checks from Walgreens this February, which just so happens to be right around the corner. Crazy leap year!
 
It looks like in 2014, we'll get paid 3 times per month 3 times that year. Those months are January, July, and December (which I triple-checked :p).
 
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Contributing to a 401k/403b after the match is personal preference.
There is no reason to not contribute to at least the match. That's free money. I hope everyone agrees with me there.
After that it just depends. It's a nice 28% tax savings. I also like to see my savings grow. For me it's also forced savings. Start early so you never miss it. I think it will be good for me in the long term.
Do remember that you will pay income tax on that money when you retire and start withdrawing it from your 401(k). It's tax-deferred, not tax-free.
 
So I have a question... not sure if it really "belongs" here but Im assuming you guys with debt would know a thing or two bout the question.

I just filled out my FAFSA. It says it takes 3 days to process but after I was done it said estimated eligible for 20,500 in a certain loan. (Think it said stafford?). My tuiton is going to be a little over 29,000. So does this mean I have to get private loans to cover the rest or after being processed I might get more/two seperate kinds of loans? I was under the impression the federal loans covered most of tuiton/books and you just got private loans for living expenses. Maybe I was mis-lead but Im hoping to not have to take out a lot of private loans since the interest is so much higher...

Thanks so much !

Yes, you will need to get a private loan to cover that gap as far as I know. When you are a grad student you will be able to take out a grad-plus loan if needed to cover the gap between your allowable amount and your estimated total cost of living.
 
Funny... It's not the same. Go ask a lender. ;) And you can expect 3 checks from Walgreens this February, which just so happens to be right around the corner. Crazy leap year!

Understood it's not the same, but I think most people equate 2 paychecks = a month's take home because the monthly expenses are paid with those 2 checks.

2 times a year (for me it was Nov and June), we get 3 checks in a month.

For example, as a couple, we are expected to take home $25K a month (post taxes and post-max 401K contributions to 49K/yr), but we are budgeting for our two biweekly checks of 21K. It's easier to keep track of the biweekly checks and then just storing the extra 2 checks in the bank as savings or letting the wife go on a shopping spree.

So maybe that's what the OP was meaning to say - that her 2 biweekly checks were what she considered to be her monthly.

But I agree with you, it's not the same.
 
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Understood it's not the same, but I think most people equate 2 paychecks = a month's take home because the monthly expenses are paid with those 2 checks.

2 times a year (for me it was Nov and June), we get 3 checks in a month.

As a couple, we are expected to take home $25K a month (post taxes AND post-max 401K contributions to 49K/yr), but we are budgeting for our two biweekly checks of 21K. It's easier to keep track of the biweekly checks and then just storing the extra 2 checks in the bank as savings or letting the wife go on a shopping spree.

So maybe that's what the OP was meaning to say - that her 2 biweekly checks were what she considered to be her monthly.

But I agree with you, it's not the same.


I was thinking if I could get my wife a good stripper job we could be bringing in a similar amount to what you guys are pulling down, although I dont know how I am going to explain that to my kids..........mommy's a dancer........"Like a ballerina?".........Uh huh.....
 
I was thinking if I could get my wife a good stripper job we could be bringing in a similar amount to what you guys are pulling down, although I dont know how I am going to explain that to my kids..........mommy's a dancer........"Like a ballerina?".........Uh huh.....

I hear ya bro. ;)
 
So I have a question... not sure if it really "belongs" here but Im assuming you guys with debt would know a thing or two bout the question.

I just filled out my FAFSA. It says it takes 3 days to process but after I was done it said estimated eligible for 20,500 in a certain loan. (Think it said stafford?). My tuiton is going to be a little over 29,000. So does this mean I have to get private loans to cover the rest or after being processed I might get more/two seperate kinds of loans? I was under the impression the federal loans covered most of tuiton/books and you just got private loans for living expenses. Maybe I was mis-lead but Im hoping to not have to take out a lot of private loans since the interest is so much higher...

Thanks so much !

Whatever you decide to borrow, make sure you do what it needs to succeed. There's no heading back.
 
Do remember that you will pay income tax on that money when you retire and start withdrawing it from your 401(k). It's tax-deferred, not tax-free.

True that. I should have said grows tax deferred. It is still a savings on current year tax liablity. But yes, in the end the IRS will get theirs.
 
I find some figures being thrown around in this thread ( and others about pay) tad bit insensitive to folks, who 6 months post-graduation still haven't landed for a job.

Not to mention 6 (gasp!) figures in the red.

Its akin to flashing a hearty, mouth watering meal to a starving captive.
 
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