Life in debt?

[ngkats]

I've been posting in the pre-allo forum but I wanted to see what med students' experiences have been.

I'm likely going choosing a private school over my state school to enroll in for the 2009-2010 year and will have to pay for it entirely from loan money. After graduation, this should leave me 250k in debt.

Are there many medical students who pay for med school entirely with loans? Average medical school debts at private institutions tend to be drastically lower than what I'm likely to have when I graduate (but I suppose that's because some students' parents pay for it all, thereby bringing the average way down.)

Anyone?

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[ZeusonRoids]

I've been posting in the pre-allo forum but I wanted to see what med students' experiences have been.

I'm likely going choosing a private school over my state school to enroll in for the 2009-2010 year and will have to pay for it entirely from loan money. After graduation, this should leave me 250k in debt.

Are there many medical students who pay for med school entirely with loans? Average medical school debts at private institutions tend to be drastically lower than what I'm likely to have when I graduate (but I suppose that's because some students' parents pay for it all, thereby bringing the average way down.)

Anyone?

Well I will be right there with you. I am thinking that I will choose to attend USC-Keck (80% chance) and that would put me WELL over the 250k mark (probably closer to 300k). Unfortunately my state school does not allow me a "Cheap" option (they are by far the most expensive public med school in the USA). I actually have a school that I got into in New York (SUNY-Buffalo) that would be around 60k cheaper to attend than my own state school. RRRRGGGHHH OHSU

But the point is many people will be with you and nobody knows what the landscape for medicine will be in the future (although many people claim to)... With rising debt many employers are being forced to woo doctors with some loan forgiveness. Also the AMA is easily one of the strongest unions in the history of the world (seriously) so I have no doubt that if physicians are unable to re-pay their loans the AMA will begin to make some changes. If physicians were to strike for even a day it would be disasterous.

Just wanted you to know that I will be right there with you (plus thousands of other people)

 

[CaptainProton]

I've been posting in the pre-allo forum but I wanted to see what med students' experiences have been.

I'm likely going choosing a private school over my state school to enroll in for the 2009-2010 year and will have to pay for it entirely from loan money. After graduation, this should leave me 250k in debt.

Are there many medical students who pay for med school entirely with loans? Average medical school debts at private institutions tend to be drastically lower than what I'm likely to have when I graduate (but I suppose that's because some students' parents pay for it all, thereby bringing the average way down.)

Anyone?

The good private schools have endowments so they don't charge an arm and a leg just for sitting in lecture and have tuition similar to state schools because they don't want the good applicants to go to a state school over their school. One good reason to go for an expensive private school over a state school is geography, otherwise it is not worth it. State schools actually have great medical educational curriculum and support and opportunities for research and other activities that generally private medical schools have less of.

Private medical schools can and do take advantage of students in that many students who attend them have the ability to pay for the higher tuition, but also the hidden costs. If you don't have these resources then being in such large amounts of debts is a huge fear factor for sure and a lot of stress.

BU is one of the most expensive medical schools in the country, around $65,000 to $70,000 per year including tuition and living expenses and other costs, plus if you add on interviewing costs for residency and other unexpected costs, the price tag could easily soar to around $300,000 plus any college debts.

The Craigslist killer had a huge amount of debt, and a lot of students at BU's med school are stressed living on massive student loans that must be taken out to live in Boston which is very expensive. Of course his debt problem, which perhaps required him to find cheaper housing and cut back even on things like food and books, who knows?, didn't cause him to become a killer. But it didn't help.

Philip Markoff broke, taxpayers to pick up his legal bill


The medical student accused of murdering an erotic masseuse he met on Craigslist is drowning in more than $100,000 in student loan debt and is so broke he can’t afford to pay an attorney, according to court papers. Philip Markoff, a 23-year-old suspended Boston University medical school student, owes $130,000 in student loans and does not get money from his parents, leaving him to lean on a taxpayer-funded attorney for his defense, according to a court document in Boston Municipal Court that labels him indigent.
Markoff graduated from the State University of New York-Albany and was a second-year medical student at BU.
“(Markoff) stated he did not receive financial support from his family. (Markoff) further stated he was unemployed for a lengthy period of time and was essentially living off student loans in the amount of $130,000,” according to the April 23 document signed by a probation officer.
The officer, Athena Kotarides, interviewed Markoff on April 21 and wrote that he signed an indigency form. That same day, the Committee for Public Counsel Services appointed attorney John Salsberg to represent Markoff, according to an April 21 letter.
Markoff is being held without bail while he awaits trial. He is charged with murder and kidnapping in connection with the Boston hotel killing of New York masseuse, Julissa Brisman, on April 14 and the April 10 robbery of a Las Vegas prostitute who also advertised on Craigslist. Both attacks occurred at Copley Square hotels.

 

[CaptainProton]

If physicians were to strike for even a day it would be disasterous.

I think it might actually be against the law for physicians to strike. There are plenty of doctors who graduate with so much debt from medical school that they must go into practice after residency and can't afford to do a fellowship.

 

[ngkats]

Well I will be right there with you. I am thinking that I will choose to attend USC-Keck (80% chance) and that would put me WELL over the 250k mark (probably closer to 300k). Unfortunately my state school does not allow me a "Cheap" option (they are by far the most expensive public med school in the USA). I actually have a school that I got into in New York (SUNY-Buffalo) that would be around 60k cheaper to attend than my own state school. RRRRGGGHHH OHSU

But the point is many people will be with you and nobody knows what the landscape for medicine will be in the future (although many people claim to)... With rising debt many employers are being forced to woo doctors with some loan forgiveness. Also the AMA is easily one of the strongest unions in the history of the world (seriously) so I have no doubt that if physicians are unable to re-pay their loans the AMA will begin to make some changes. If physicians were to strike for even a day it would be disasterous.

Just wanted you to know that I will be right there with you (plus thousands of other people)

Thanks for the response. Solidarity is definitely a good thing. Hope the AMA does its thing.

 

[nogolfinsnow]

I've been posting in the pre-allo forum but I wanted to see what med students' experiences have been.

I'm likely going choosing a private school over my state school to enroll in for the 2009-2010 year and will have to pay for it entirely from loan money. After graduation, this should leave me 250k in debt.

Are there many medical students who pay for med school entirely with loans? Average medical school debts at private institutions tend to be drastically lower than what I'm likely to have when I graduate (but I suppose that's because some students' parents pay for it all, thereby bringing the average way down.)

Anyone?

Most medical students pay for the vast percentage of their schooling with loans. I don't trust the "average indebtedness" numbers because, as you said, if I'm 250k in debt and my buddy was fortunate to be able to pay it all off, the average is 125k, but that doesn't do me any good. You can call the school you're interested in and ask about the likelihood of you receiving grants, scholarships, etc that will reduce your loan burden. This varies quite a bit from school to school.

Think long and hard about the true benefit of picking the more expensive school. Like many pre-meds, I thought about debt, but not to the extent I should have (I didn't have a choice though, rejected at all state schools and didn't think re-applying would make a difference). The burden of debt can feel quite heavy at times, especially when you realize you still have 2 or 3 more years of racking up 65k/year.

 

[ngkats]

There are plenty of doctors who graduate with so much debt from medical school that they must go into practice after residency and can't afford to do a fellowship.

I didn't even think about this. That's kind of bothersome. I always figured I'd do some sort of fellowship...

Think long and hard about the true benefit of picking the more expensive school. Like many pre-meds, I thought about debt, but not to the extent I should have (I didn't have a choice though, rejected at all state schools and didn't think re-applying would make a difference). The burden of debt can feel quite heavy at times, especially when you realize you still have 2 or 3 more years of racking up 65k/year.

Yeah, I'm thinking. I just don't know what to do really. I'm not really into my state school, that's the only problem. The curriculum is untraditional and the focus is rural. And for what it's worth--which is probably very little--the private school is pretty well regarded.

I'm just really lost about this and only have 2.5 weeks to make a decision.

 

[WiscDoc]

I didn't even think about this. That's kind of bothersome. I always figured I'd do some sort of fellowship...



Yeah, I'm thinking. I just don't know what to do really. I'm not really into my state school, that's the only problem. The curriculum is untraditional and the focus is rural. And for what it's worth--which is probably very little--the private school is pretty well regarded.

I'm just really lost about this and only have 2.5 weeks to make a decision.

How much of a cost difference are we talking about here?

Also, I'm a proponent of going to a school you'll be happy at. Med school is draining and the last thing you want is to add misery on to the hard work. However, there is almost no way you can tell where you'll be happier unless there are certain red flags at one school that for sure aren't at the other.

Regarding docs being "forced" into residency b/c of debt, I'm not too sure I buy that. Unless by forced you mean "didn't like the idea of more interest adding up." Upperclassmen and doctors are welcome to correct me.

Finally, if medicine is what you want to do for a career, then don't worry much about the debt. Your pay after making loan payments will still be much better than that of other educated folks (including PhD's, engineers etc). depending on what field you go into, your debt might matter very little (eg in a high paying field you can afford to make huge payments AND have more money left than a primary care doc). In a lower paying field you can try for a loan forgiveness program, or just make small payments over long term and still live much more comfortably than the average American.

 

[CaptainProton]

Yeah, I'm thinking. I just don't know what to do really. I'm not really into my state school, that's the only problem. The curriculum is untraditional and the focus is rural. And for what it's worth--which is probably very little--the private school is pretty well regarded.

I'm just really lost about this and only have 2.5 weeks to make a decision.

Applicants overestimate the differences between state schools and private schools. MANY state schools have great matches in neurosurgery, great IM programs, etc . . . Good private schools and state schools usually have some rural experiences. Look at the list of residency positions that people at your state school got, you might be surprised.

The LCME heavily regulates curriculum in medical schools and pretty much the basic sciences are similar everywhere. There might be minor cosmetic differences in "problem based learning" or self-directed study modules, but basically you will be reading the same stuff for 8 hours a day for two years as medical students in a ton of other schools. I have seen a private medical school, not a top school though, that had an awful two years of basice sciences in terms of the worst prepared lectures ever. You may decided to read at home and forgo many lectures, I wish I had. So, the question is, do you want to pay $70,000 to study on your own, or pay only 1/3 or 1/2 of that??

If your state school has students match in places where you would want to go for specialty then go there, and look back over a perhaps four years or so. State schools are a great option, especially over middle to lower tier private schools.

 

[Doctor J]

Will second the recommendation to go to your state school and save the money.

Ultimately the MD is just a piece of paper, it matters very, very little where you received it from. What matters more is residency and licensure, and 4th years from the 'worst' state schools match into the best residency programs in the most competitive specialties all the time.

 

[ngkats]

Applicants overestimate the differences between state schools and private schools. MANY state schools have great matches in neurosurgery, great IM programs, etc . . . Good private schools and state schools usually have some rural experiences. Look at the list of residency positions that people at your state school got, you might be surprised.

The LCME heavily regulates curriculum in medical schools and pretty much the basic sciences are similar everywhere. There might be minor cosmetic differences in "problem based learning" or self-directed study modules, but basically you will be reading the same stuff for 8 hours a day for two years as medical students in a ton of other schools. I have seen a private medical school, not a top school though, that had an awful two years of basice sciences in terms of the worst prepared lectures ever. You may decided to read at home and forgo many lectures, I wish I had. So, the question is, do you want to pay $70,000 to study on your own, or pay only 1/3 or 1/2 of that??

If your state school has students match in places where you would want to go for specialty then go there, and look back over a perhaps four years or so. State schools are a great option, especially over middle to lower tier private schools.

Right. I have looked at the match lists in detail. It's not like the state place matches poorly at all. But it doesn't match as well (according to subjective competitiveness of specialty and more subjective competitiveness of program) as the private school. AND I know that there is a huge disagreement about what motivates and drives where students match and that is may actually have little to do with the school.

Secondly, you make a good point about the pre-clinical years. One student giving me a tour on a recent re-visit claimed that he rarely went to lectures (which pretty much paying 65k a year for powerpoint files and a student lounge). But apparently the clinical years of this places are supposed to be exceptional and what sets it apart from other schools. But that's just what they tell me. Who knows.

 

[CaptainProton]

Also, I'm a proponent of going to a school you'll be happy at. Med school is draining and the last thing you want is to add misery on to the hard work. However, there is almost no way you can tell where you'll be happier unless there are certain red flags at one school that for sure aren't at the other.

It is very true that you feel happy at your medical school, and also true that it is hard to figure out if this will happen until you start the school.

I have seen some people forgo fellowship post internal medicine residency, different ball game here as you can go back and do a fellowship later, but have done so to pay off the huge loans from medical school and perhaps had a family to support as well. As fellowship pays about the same as residency, then some people apparently had to get a general internal medicine position for a couple years before doing, say rheumatology. Is this bad? It just illustrates how the debt can affect your career choices which should be based on doing what you love to do.

Point in being is that at one medical school that was very expensive where I went, fellow students discouraged me from pursuing a primary care specialty! So there is peer pressure I think at the higher costing places to go into radiology or something and students do actively complain about the high tution to other students, so it sort of drags you down in a way hearring about it all the time. The reason I was given by fellow students was that primary care docs from this private school are really in a pinch to pay off loans and take on an inappropriate number of patients in a private practice to take care of these patients. There were always accounts of the internal medicine generalist or pediatrician seeing 50 patients a day or more, and students felt it was unsafe in a way and didn't want the pressure to pay off loans to affect their practice.

It is actually good being around people who want to do primary care work and volunteer time with underserved patients and as such people usually go to state schools as they realize they may be making much less than the average doctor, such students need to be frugal.

Certainly at BU school of medicine, you are an outcast if you want to do a lot of volunteer work with indigent patients or do primary care. Which is not a good thing.

 

[ngkats]

So, any other students in/will be in 200k+ debt?

 

[NonTradMed]

Many, many medical students borrow for everything. That's just the way it is. You go into six figure debt to make six figure. It's not the best way to make a nice salary, but the MD probably has the most guarantee of making a nice salary outside of the top 10 law school.

I won't say whether one should go private vs. public because there are so many factors. Not all public schools are cheap. Mine is as expensive, if not more, than some private schools.

Had I an option to go to my undergrad's private medical school, I would have done so in a heartbeat because not only does it have a substantial reputation, but they give a huge amount of financial aid. Everyone I knew who got in had scholarships. I've been told they give about half the students substantial awards. So I may have ended up paying at most a few thousand more per year for a top ranked medical school. In that case, the extra few thousand would most definitely be worth it. However, if I had gotten into an expensive, non top tiered private school, doing instate makes more sense.

While school name should be taken into consideration, I don't think its worth the extra $100k. I think students should seriously consider their reasons to ensure that the reasons for attending a substantially expensive school are solid.

 

[Slow]

lalala

 

[WellWornLad]

Are there many medical students who pay for med school entirely with loans?

Of course. You think your average med student is rich enough to pay $40-70K out of pocket?

 

[Igor4sugry]

I have been looking at the "average indebtedness data" and it appears to be 3-5 year out of date.

As a medical student right now I see two major things happening:

[1] Cost is rising all the time -> just assume >3% tuition increase per year.

[2] Interest rates on Stafford are at an all time high -> right now Stafford is at 6.8% and GradPLUS is at 8.5%.

What this high interest means for most med school graduates with $150+ dept is that during residency all they will be able to pay would be the interest.


In general, higher education is way too expensive. If you can get into medical school and make it through and find a good paying position then its great. But remember that only about 10% of all applicants get into medical school, and there is about 15-20% failure rate (dropping out, illness, etc.) from medical school.

So I suggest getting a "safe" undergraduate major such as engineering or business so that you do not find yourself in a very bad financial situation in case medical school does not work out.

 

[Warbux]

I have been looking at the "average indebtedness data" and it appears to be 3-5 year out of date.

As a medical student right now I see two major things happening:

[1] Cost is rising all the time -> just assume >3% tuition increase per year.

[2] Interest rates on Stafford are at an all time high -> right now Stafford is at 6.8% and GradPLUS is at 8.5%.

What this high interest means for most med school graduates with $150+ dept is that during residency all they will be able to pay would be the interest.


In general, higher education is way too expensive. If you can get into medical school and make it through and find a good paying position then its great. But remember that only about 10% of all applicants get into medical school, and there is about 15-20% failure rate (dropping out, illness, etc.) from medical school.

So I suggest getting a "safe" undergraduate major such as engineering or business so that you do not find yourself in a very bad financial situation in case medical school does not work out.

I think your credibility went out the window right there.

 

[Gallix23]

Thanks a lot for this thread, I'm in the EXACT same situation and this calmed my nerves a little bit.

I'm committing to my dream school tomorrow, and even though it'll put me about 175,000 (before any possible scholarships and things) in the hole, I think it'll be worth it. I know I'll be happy, and it'll set me up for med school better than any of my other choices could. I'm just glad I'm not the only one not choosing the cheap way out of things!

EDIT: Oops, kinda read this wrong, I keep forgetting most "pre-med" people are already in college

No matter though, it's still comforting to know that I'll (hopefully...weird word choice when you think about it...) be in the same situation in a few years.

 

[WiscDoc]

I have been looking at the "average indebtedness data" and it appears to be 3-5 year out of date.

As a medical student right now I see two major things happening:

[1] Cost is rising all the time -> just assume >3% tuition increase per year.

[2] Interest rates on Stafford are at an all time high -> right now Stafford is at 6.8% and GradPLUS is at 8.5%.

What this high interest means for most med school graduates with $150+ dept is that during residency all they will be able to pay would be the interest.


In general, higher education is way too expensive. If you can get into medical school and make it through and find a good paying position then its great. But remember that only about 10% of all applicants get into medical school, and there is about 15-20% failure rate (dropping out, illness, etc.) from medical school.

So I suggest getting a "safe" undergraduate major such as engineering or business so that you do not find yourself in a very bad financial situation in case medical school does not work out.

EXACTLY! with today's economy, these majors are completely SAFE!

 

[ngkats]

So I suggest getting a "safe" undergraduate major such as engineering or business so that you do not find yourself in a very bad financial situation in case medical school does not work out.

Well, seeing as I'm already a year out of undergrad need to commit to a med school in 2 weeks, this isn't an option for me. But thanks.

 

[McPoyle]

So, any other students in/will be in 200k+ debt?

I will be.

I am going to a state school-other than my own state-and expect to borrow 55k/year (average). Now, if I am able to skimp after the first year and reduce my COA then I will-plus my wife will be potentially be working.

Kinda scary none the less though, especially considering my wife and I each have 40k in undergrad loans.

 

[Aiicha]

Thanks for this thread. I was just thinking about posting the same thing. Just got my package from my top choice school and it's ALL loans. Ugh. Still waiting to hear back from my second choice, but I've put a 40-60k leeway in which I'm willing to pay that much more for my preferred school.

My question: People on SDN are always like: "Go with the cheaper, the loans! The debt will crush your will to live", but really, I mean I've basically never lived on more then 5-6k per year, so I'm bound to have more money then that as a Doc, so is big debt basically just an annoyance rather then a life-sucking entity as most would have you believe?

Also: Any people graduating with this kind of debt (200+k) now who will give their 2 cents?

 

[searun]

Thanks a lot for this thread, I'm in the EXACT same situation and this calmed my nerves a little bit.

I'm committing to my dream school tomorrow, and even though it'll put me about 175,000 (before any possible scholarships and things) in the hole, I think it'll be worth it. I know I'll be happy, and it'll set me up for med school better than any of my other choices could. I'm just glad I'm not the only one not choosing the cheap way out of things!

EDIT: Oops, kinda read this wrong, I keep forgetting most "pre-med" people are already in college

No matter though, it's still comforting to know that I'll (hopefully...weird word choice when you think about it...) be in the same situation in a few years.

Holy moly. You are contemplating incurring $175,000 of debt for undergrad because you believe this school will set you up better for med school? I thought it was impossible to borrow that much for undergrad. That would be totally crazy. Perhaps I am not reading your post accurately, I hope so for your sake.

 

[Slow]

[lalala

 

[DrMidlife]

But remember that only about 10% of all applicants get into medical school, and there is about 15-20% failure rate (dropping out, illness, etc.) from medical school.

Except that 40% of applicants get in (US MD/DO), and only in the Carrib will you find fail out rates greater than maybe 3%.

 

[nogolfinsnow]

I have been looking at the "average indebtedness data" and it appears to be 3-5 year out of date.

As a medical student right now I see two major things happening:

[1] Cost is rising all the time -> just assume >3% tuition increase per year.

at least 3%. 4% at my school.

In general, higher education is way too expensive. If you can get into medical school and make it through and find a good paying position then its great. But remember that only about 10% of all applicants get into medical school, and there is about 15-20% failure rate (dropping out, illness, etc.) from medical school.

So I suggest getting a "safe" undergraduate major such as engineering or business so that you do not find yourself in a very bad financial situation in case medical school does not work out.

First off, way more than 10% of applicants get in. It's closer to 50%. Secondly, the failure rate at most schools is not that high, it's closer to 5%. Thirdly, engineering is hard.

 

[gumbyj]

When asking my family practice doctor whom I have known since I was a child if there is anything she would do differently (in terms of her career and medical education), she said that she wish she could go back and attend her state school and not be swamped with debt. Just thought I'd share

 

[Igor4sugry]

Failure rates are discussed in this article:

"The longer road to medical school" (Journal of Academic Medicine)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7916809

 

[badasshairday]

When asking my family practice doctor whom I have known since I was a child if there is anything she would do differently (in terms of her career and medical education), she said that she wish she could go back and attend her state school and not be swamped with debt. Just thought I'd share

And this is from a generation ago when debt wasn't as bad as today.

 

[badasshairday]

Also the AMA is easily one of the strongest unions in the history of the world (seriously) so I have no doubt that if physicians are unable to re-pay their loans the AMA will begin to make some changes. If physicians were to strike for even a day it would be disasterous.

Just wanted you to know that I will be right there with you (plus thousands of other people)

lol. WUT?

 

[confuse]

I guess I can't comment here because while I am studying in a private university, my parents are still able to pay my intuition (albeit with a lot of difficulty) so so far, I'm going to graduate debt free.

Yes, you shouldn't have commented in this post.

ngkats,
Are there many medical students who pay for med school entirely with loans?

Yes, many. Don't get bogged down and allow the debt to stress you out even more once you're in school. Do try to budget accordingly so you don't come up short for the summer months.

 

[Cp22kjer]

And this is from a generation ago when debt wasn't as bad as today.

So true. Heck even today the average graduate is at ~180k. When I finish that avg will be much closer to ~220k+ I bet.

 

[Impromptu]

I paid for a very expensive private med school entirely with loans. I definately recommend going to your state school. My total indebtedness is part of the reason I chose a more lucrative specialty, (along with the fact that I really, really enjoy doing it).

I live with roommates, shop at discount food stores, and do many other frugal things in order to make this work. Thus, I've never hurt for money, always had enough for my needs, but rarely had anything for splurging.

There are many, many students at my school whose parents were also doctors, who aren't paying a dime for their own schooling. It brings the jealous side in me out, though I do dream of one day providing the same sort of opportunities for my own children.

The medical schools are already violating the original hippocratic oath by charging tuition for a medical education. They are in it for the money, and the recent increases in class sizes without increasing other teaching capacities shows it.

 

[tdittyx2x3]

I figured my debt load after residency will be about 135k and another 80k without interest. Total 215. Anyway I figured my payments will be about 2500/month for ten years. In other words about 30k of my salary as attending will go toward loan repayment.

Not that unbearable when the avg doc takes home around 120 after taxes. Don't get me wrong they're still screwing us all. Without a doubt.

 

[ChichiMD]

I've been posting in the pre-allo forum but I wanted to see what med students' experiences have been.

I'm likely going choosing a private school over my state school to enroll in for the 2009-2010 year and will have to pay for it entirely from loan money. After graduation, this should leave me 250k in debt.

Are there many medical students who pay for med school entirely with loans? Average medical school debts at private institutions tend to be drastically lower than what I'm likely to have when I graduate (but I suppose that's because some students' parents pay for it all, thereby bringing the average way down.)

Anyone?

Dude, you took the words right out of my thoughts. May 15th decision day predicament all boils down to $$$$$ and after attending second-look day at the more expensive option, I am definately going with the school that offered me a sticker price of $170,000 as opposed to $230,000. Even tho people keep saying the difference is not that huge, the 50,000 extra is unjustifiable!

My 0.02 cents is go with the cheaper school! Do it and DONT look back, no what if's and the like.....I am glad i did for undergrad (i think i owe under 8 grand) and all I can do is hope I'll be glad I did it again. Goodluck!

 

[Preop]

i'm paying for an expensive private school year too. although i got some grant money, it still boogles my mind how much i'm going to have to owe. i can definity understand the opinion to go to a state school that has more affordable tutition. of note though, even state schools like the UC (univ california) have increased their med school tutitions so much that its not as big a difference as going to a private (with a % of scholarship/need grants prvided).

 

[4Doc4]

Dude, you took the words right out of my thoughts. May 15th decision day predicament all boils down to $$$$$ and after attending second-look day at the more expensive option, I am definately going with the school that offered me a sticker price of $170,000 as opposed to $230,000. Even tho people keep saying the difference is not that huge, the 50,000 extra is unjustifiable!

My 0.02 cents is go with the cheaper school! Do it and DONT look back, no what if's and the like.....I am glad i did for undergrad (i think i owe under 8 grand) and all I can do is hope I'll be glad I did it again. Goodluck!

Haha, dude/dudette your decision was even better because you actually saved an extra 10k you didn't even know about.

 

[QuaerensIntelle]

I've been grappling with a similar issue approaching the may 15th deadline...I have the opportunity to attend one of the new schools as part of the charter class or a top 10 school with no aid (that i know of). If i go to the charter school, I will graduate with 0 debt (took a full ride for undergrad also) and actually probably make a few k a year..and more like 240,k debt if i go to the top 10...

I'm almost positively going to take the risk of being part of the charter class, but I am a little anxious about it. I suppose I'm just worried that I am closing doors on possible specialties that won't look at me since I'm from a new school. I always told myself I would go to a free undergrad and go to a big name grad school, but now I find the opportunity of never having debt extremely tempting.

I would appreciate more opinions!

 

[DocWalken]

oh man I would take the zero debt no question! 240k?! That's nuts.

 

[ChiDO]

I've been grappling with a similar issue approaching the may 15th deadline...I have the opportunity to attend one of the new schools as part of the charter class or a top 10 school with no aid (that i know of). If i go to the charter school, I will graduate with 0 debt (took a full ride for undergrad also) and actually probably make a few k a year..and more like 240,k debt if i go to the top 10...

I'm almost positively going to take the risk of being part of the charter class, but I am a little anxious about it. I suppose I'm just worried that I am closing doors on possible specialties that won't look at me since I'm from a new school. I always told myself I would go to a free undergrad and go to a big name grad school, but now I find the opportunity of never having debt extremely tempting.

I would appreciate more opinions!

You'd be stupid not to go to the charter school. 250k vs 0k that's a HUGE ++++++++++++++. On top of that, the chance of the school closing is slim to none. Will there be kinks in the road at the charter school compared to the top 10, ya, but they are not worth 250k.

As soon as you graduate, the school will officially become accredited just like any other school. I would also bet that they school will poor tons of $$ for prep for your boards since you will be the first class and they want you guys to do really well. The only thing that will "keep you out of competivite specialties" is YOUR inability to do well on your boards.

Free Schoool >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 250k school

 

[tdittyx2x3]

Don't forget now kids.. its not 250k versus 0. Its 250k plus a solid 14 years of interest (read: 400k vs. 0).

Unfortunately, I can't tell you if the charter school is worth whatever risk may be present, but I can tell you that they are practically offering you a (sweet) house.

 

[QuaerensIntelle]

Don't forget now kids.. its not 250k versus 0. Its 250k plus a solid 14 years of interest (read: 400k vs. 0).

Unfortunately, I can't tell you if the charter school is worth whatever risk may be present, but I can tell you that they are practically offering you a (sweet) house.

Yeah, it is something like a half a million dollars :0! I agree with all of you. I guess if it is true that a lot of the STEP 1 stuff is learned at home (Especially true with me since I rarely ever learn better from classes than independently), then I should be fine so long as Residency programs don't frown upon my school being basically unheard of.

I was thinking more politically that it is nebulous. It seems like in some fields-plastics/derm etc. it matters a whole lot where you do your rotations because of the networking aspect as opposed to the actual education. I don't know how true this is, but I got the impression that going to a school that has placed others in a certain residency makes it easier to get in.

Thank you.

 

[newdoc2013]

Ive posted this in a few other places, but I am in the same boat as you all... I made a spreadsheet to ballpark what kind of debt I am looking at for medical school. The numbers in here are dummy's but I think the interest rates are right.. (someone correct me if they are not). If you're comparing multiple schools, just copy the original spreadsheet and plug those numbers in -- you can then see where your debt comes from and in what year its coming from side-by-side.

**note I was not a finance major and can't attest to the complete accuracy -- but it seems to work! have fun! /

most updated version can be found here: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=8110226#post8110226http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=8103852#post8110226

 

[psipsina]

I chose my cheaper state school. There were things I liked more about the private school but none of them could justify 32k/year more (pre interest). 2 years later and I'm happy with my choice. I've spent so much time sitting by myself studying powerpoints that I can't say that the things that I thought were important as a pre-matriculant really were. The only major advantage of super-well-known-private-school is the ability to get letters from well known faculty, but state school kids can still land kick-ass away rotations and get the same letters if they are brilliant and rock the boards etc. I don't feel like being at a state school has stifled my potential match in any way, but rather has left me open to chose whatever I like best, instead of choosing whatever has the highest reimbursement.

 

[Acherona]

I just graduated from med school this year and am now looking at how to pay back my loans. I have about the average debt for a graduate of a state school, and all I can say is looking at the numbers is a little depressing. It will be a big enough burden to just keep up with the interest during residency. I wouldn't want another 100K on top of what I already have, I can tell you that much.

Something like happiness is very subjective and difficult to predict. I thought I would be happy at my med school but it ended up not being a good place for me.

Obviously everyone's situation is different, but generally, I think if you are gunning for a competitive, high-paying specialty, you should go to the school with the best reputation. Your goal is to get into the specialty, and the loans will be easy to pay off even if they are large once you start making money. On the other hand if you are interested in any of the medium to low paying specialties, it doesn't make sense to go into that much debt. These specialties don't care much where you went to med school, just that you did well. And if you aren't sure or the schools are close in reputation, then I'd def go with the cheaper school.

 

[Acherona]

[1] Cost is rising all the time -> just assume >3% tuition increase per year.

[2] Interest rates on Stafford are at an all time high -> right now Stafford is at 6.8% and GradPLUS is at 8.5%.

What this high interest means for most med school graduates with $150+ dept is that during residency all they will be able to pay would be the interest.

These are important points. Tuition rises every year, so your education will end up costing more than your current calculation. The interest rates are really a crime. Not only does our government not provide cheap education like every other developed country, but on top of it they try to make money off their students. It's sick, especially now when everyone else is benefitting from rock bottom rates.

The gradplus is a horrible loan and I'd try to avoid it. I had a friend move back to her home city to live with her parents, just to pay it off.

 

[normalforce]

How much of a cost difference are we talking about here?

Also, I'm a proponent of going to a school you'll be happy at. Med school is draining and the last thing you want is to add misery on to the hard work. However, there is almost no way you can tell where you'll be happier unless there are certain red flags at one school that for sure aren't at the other.

Regarding docs being "forced" into residency b/c of debt, I'm not too sure I buy that. Unless by forced you mean "didn't like the idea of more interest adding up." Upperclassmen and doctors are welcome to correct me.

Finally, if medicine is what you want to do for a career, then don't worry much about the debt. Your pay after making loan payments will still be much better than that of other educated folks (including PhD's, engineers etc). depending on what field you go into, your debt might matter very little (eg in a high paying field you can afford to make huge payments AND have more money left than a primary care doc). In a lower paying field you can try for a loan forgiveness program, or just make small payments over long term and still live much more comfortably than the average American.

Be careful in making that assumprion. No one is too sure how the landscape of reimbursement of medicine will change over the next 2-3 years let alone the next 5-10 years.

Thanks.

Dan

 

[ThinkTooMuch]

Be careful in making that assumprion. No one is too sure how the landscape of reimbursement of medicine will change over the next 2-3 years let alone the next 5-10 years.

Thanks.

Dan

well it IS likely to change in the next 2-3 and thus unlikely to change for a long time thereafter.