Lincoln Memorial University

[1j418]

Any thoughts?

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[ziggyandjazzy]

Lincoln Memorial

Looking at the different schools to apply to this cycle! Does anyone have any opinions/ thoughts on Lincoln Memorial University? Not very familiar with their program and can't seem to find much other than their website about them

forums.studentdoctor.net

I, personally, would much rather go to a school that is significantly cheaper and has a teaching hospital.

 

[1j418]

Lincoln Memorial

Looking at the different schools to apply to this cycle! Does anyone have any opinions/ thoughts on Lincoln Memorial University? Not very familiar with their program and can't seem to find much other than their website about them

forums.studentdoctor.net

I, personally, would much rather go to a school that is significantly cheaper and has a teaching hospital.

Like which ones?

 

[ajs513]

Any thoughts?

I’m not a huge fan of the new trend of schools not having a teaching hospital. It puts a lot more of the pressure on students to find experiences that they think will benefit them, and there’s less control over what students are learning. Not to mention you have to move a lot, and sometimes you have to move all over the country.

From what I’ve read, schools like this only exist due to a lawsuit by Western against the AVMA, which set a precedent for facilities that schools had to have and didn’t have to have. Now more schools are trying to open up with similar models (LIU, University of Arizona). Some have criticized this and noted that it seems veterinary medicine is being turned into a trade rather than a profession, and that the standards for accrediting a school have been lowered.

Granted, the way it’s supposed to be is that the education you get at any accredited school is the same, at a baseline, as any other accredited school. Everyone who has gone to LMU or Western has said they got a good education. But there’s no way to compare that with other schools since I don’t think there’s anyone who has gone to one school and then another. NAVLE Pass rates are the only real indication of preparedness between schools, and LMU only had a pass rate of 87.4% last year. Compare that with long-standing schools whose pass rates have consistently been between 97 and 100%.

 

[ajs513]

Like which ones?

All of the other 28 and all of the other international schools except for Western.

 

[grebes4lyfe]

All of the other 28 and all of the other international schools except for Western.

Or midwestern, right?

 

[ziggyandjazzy]

Like which ones?

Pretty much any of the schools besides LMU, Western, and the Caribbean schools (Ross and SGU). I am unsure about Midwestern.

 

[ajs513]

Or midwestern, right?

I think they actually just opened up a teaching clinic but I don’t know how it’s used as part of their curriculum. I’ll do some research and post what I find.

Edit: from Midwestern’s program description

“Quarters 9-13 involve diverse clinical rotation training. The majority of the time will be spent on campus in state-of-the-art clinical teaching facilities. Students will also have the opportunity to schedule off-campus clinical elective rotations at pre-approved external sites.”

So it sounds like all core rotations are done on-campus and electives are done using the distributive model.

 

[ajs513]

Pretty much any of the schools besides LMU, Western, and the Caribbean schools (Ross and SGU). I am unsure about Midwestern.

Ross and SGU technically give you an education through a teaching hospital. It’s just through another school’s teaching hospital. So you spend a year at an approved school doing all of your rotations in their hospital. But as far as completing all of your training at the school, you wouldn’t be able to do that at Ross or SGU.

 

[ziggyandjazzy]

Ross and SGU technically give you an education through a teaching hospital. It’s just through another school’s teaching hospital. So you spend a year at an approved school doing all of your rotations in their hospital. But as far as completing all of your training at the school, you wouldn’t be able to do that at Ross or SGU.

I'm well aware.

The point still stands, they don't have a veterinary teaching hospital. I think the VTH is valuable beyond just clinics For example, between classes we can watch necropsies or surgeries. These experiences largely wouldn't be available to students not around practicing clinical vets day in and day out

 

[MixedAnimals77]

Any thoughts?

Like which ones?

Based on these two things, OP, I would suggest doing some more of your own research first. Get some knowledge behind you about how the whole process works and the schools and cost of becoming a veterinarian. While here is a great resource and we are here to help out with the process but not provide all the information for you- if you hunt around some threads not having the slightest clue is one quick way to get yourself run into the ground so to speak.

 

[DVMDream]

I think they actually just opened up a teaching clinic but I don’t know how it’s used as part of their curriculum. I’ll do some research and post what I find.

Edit: from Midwestern’s program description

“Quarters 9-13 involve diverse clinical rotation training. The majority of the time will be spent on campus in state-of-the-art clinical teaching facilities. Students will also have the opportunity to schedule off-campus clinical elective rotations at pre-approved external sites.”

So it sounds like all core rotations are done on-campus and electives are done using the distributive model.

Midwestern's teaching hospital is still very new in development, they have some rotations but there are still many things they don't. I've heard through the grape vine that neither surgery or anesthesia are required rotations... they're electives. I've tried to send ERs there and have been told they don't accept that type of emergency.

They're trying at least but the school isn't fully staffed yet to provide every rotation or specialty. I know they'll be there at some point.

 

[ziggyandjazzy]

Midwestern's teaching hospital is still very new in development, they have some rotations but there are still many things they don't. I've heard through the grape vine that neither surgery or anesthesia are required rotations... they're electives. I've tried to send ERs there and have been told they don't accept that type of emergency.

They're trying at least but the school isn't fully staffed yet to provide every rotation or specialty. I know they'll be there at some point.

Does any school have every specialty though?

OSU's VTH doesn't have an ER and it doesn't have GP either (except for students). It's a referral hospital. That said, there are still other specialists missing. I was under the impression all, if not most, schools were lacking in particular specialists.

 

[DVMDream]

Does any school have every specialty though?

OSU's VTH doesn't have an ER and it doesn't have GP either (except for students). It's a referral hospital. That said, there are still other specialists missing. I was under the impression all, if not most, schools were lacking in particular specialists.

I mean.....they're missing most specialities, plus not requiring certain rotations is, erm, not the best idea. Surgery I can understand.... since that's not GP surgery, but not requiring anesthesia, everyone needs to know anesthesia. Also, no ER in Oregon isn't the same as no ER in Phoenix.

I'm just saying compared to many of the established schools they are still undeveloped, which is expected for any new school.

 

[ziggyandjazzy]

I mean.....they're missing most specialities, plus not requiring certain rotations is, erm, not the best idea. Surgery I can understand.... since that's not GP surgery, but not requiring anesthesia, everyone needs to know anesthesia. Also, no ER in Oregon isn't the same as no ER in Phoenix.

I'm just saying compared to many of the established schools they are still undeveloped, which is expected for any new school.

Ok I think I understand your point, for the most part. That they have a teaching hospital but it's very underdeveloped with few specialties or rotations.

But why would not having an ER in Oregon be different from Arizona? I feel like I am missing something there...

 

[DVMDream]

Ok I think I understand your point, for the most part. That they have a teaching hospital but it's very underdeveloped with few specialties or rotations.

But why would not having an ER in Oregon be different from Arizona? I feel like I am missing something there...

Phoenix is the fifth largest city in the US.... podunk Oregon town where that vet school is....huge difference. Phoenix can support and really needs the ER.

 

[ziggyandjazzy]

Phoenix is the fifth largest city in the US.... podunk Oregon town where that vet school is....huge difference. Phoenix can support and really needs the ER.

It's not podunk Oregon, but ok. The town already supports a 24 hour ER and I am confident it would be an asset to have one at OSU (and know many other students who think so as well). Millions of people live in the willamette valley near the vet school. I don't really appreciate the insinuations about the area, especially if you haven't ever been here

 

[DVMDream]

It's not podunk Oregon, but ok. The town already supports a 24 hour ER and I am confident it would be an asset to have one at OSU (and know many other students who think so as well). Millions of people live in the willamette valley near the vet school. I don't really appreciate the insinuations about the area, especially if you haven't ever been here

From what I've heard from those at OSU....the case load coming through clinics isn't that large because the surrounding town is fairly small..... .... I'm not really insinuating anything to be rude, I think you're taking offense at nothing.

 

[DVMDream]

It's not podunk Oregon, but ok. The town already supports a 24 hour ER and I am confident it would be an asset to have one at OSU (and know many other students who think so as well). Millions of people live in the willamette valley near the vet school. I don't really appreciate the insinuations about the area, especially if you haven't ever been here

To put it into perspective the town that OSU is in.... Corvallis... has a population of about 58k.... the town where Midwestern is..... 247k..... there is just a small size difference.

I never said that OSU should never or can't have an ER, but I can better understand perhaps why they don't have one yet given the relatively smaller population in the region. I can't understand why Midwestern doesn't have one yet, especially being a vet in the area. Especially being a vet who occasionally picks up ER shifts in the area and we have regular wait times of 3-5 hours for people. Especially after being told that they do see emergencies but then when trying to get an emergency case transferred to that school I was told they "don't see that type of emergency"..... to me, you either see emergencies or you don't.

Not sure why what I said is so offensive....

 

[ziggyandjazzy]

To put it into perspective the town that OSU is in.... Corvallis... has a population of about 58k.... the town where Midwestern is..... 247k..... there is just a small size difference.

I never said that OSU should never or can't have an ER, but I can better understand perhaps why they don't have one yet given the relatively smaller population in the region. I can't understand why Midwestern doesn't have one yet, especially being a vet in the area. Especially being a vet who occasionally picks up ER shifts in the area and we have regular wait times of 3-5 hours for people. Especially after being told that they do see emergencies but then when trying to get an emergency case transferred to that school I was told they "don't see that type of emergency"..... to me, you either see emergencies or you don't.

Not sure why what I said is so offensive....

You called the town podunk. Do you not know what that word means or do you just find it ok to call where people live insignificant and unimportant? If you don't know how that can be considered offensive, I really don't know how to help you as you must have significant challenges communicating with people in an effective way.
And again, I did not even refer to corvallis, I referred to the Willamette valley, as the town lays in a significantly populated area (over a million people).
I'm pretty much done with this conversation. I hope you have more tact in how you refer to locations people live in the future though.

 

[DVMDream]

You called the town podunk. Do you not know what that word means or do you just find it ok to call where people live insignificant and unimportant? If you don't know how that can be considered offensive, I really don't know how to help you as you must have significant challenges communicating with people in an effective way.
And again, I did not even refer to corvallis, I referred to the Willamette valley, as the town lays in a significantly populated area (over a million people).
I'm pretty much done with this conversation. I hope you have more tact in how you refer to locations people live in the future though.

I've lived in podunk towns.... I love podunk towns..... seriously you're offended over the word podunk?

And if we're going to take the larger population in general around a school.... umm, phoenix is at nearly 2 million.... and the entire state is over 7 million.... not that I necessarily think these numbers are a good thing, I'd love if a million people left the area. Getting a bit crowded around these parts as it is.

 

[DVMDream]

I really don't know how to help you as you must have significant challenges communicating with people in an effective way.
I hope you have more tact in how you refer to locations people live in the future though.

Most people that live in small towns are just fine joking around about living in an erm.... small town. I communicate effectively with people from all walks of life every day just fine. You are taking offense at something that wasn't intended to be offensive in the beginning. Sounds like you have the issue here.

 

[katashark]

@ziggyandjazzy At the OSU VTH, Large Animal side is a full emergency service. SA does take some emergencies over night. I don't know how they decide which cases. We have required rotations on both the large and small emergency rotations (those are the overnight ones). We don't have a fully functioning SA ER and we don't have a boarded ECC doc. They are also adding specialities (including an ECC person) with the expansion. We are missing derm, neuro, and ophtho as well. You can always do preceptorships in those easily nearby. And you're right, we don't have community practice/GP. Almost everything is referral. I can tell you more when I start clinics in a couple weeks! Ahhhh!

 

[battie]

I was under the impression all, if not most, schools were lacking in particular specialists

A ton of schools are missing a radiologist because they can make double the salary working from home in their pj's hanging with their spawn. Last I heard, 17 schools were missing a radiologist.

Illinois is only missing a surgical oncologist at this point (since our radiologist is starting this summer). As far as other schools, not a 100% sure who has what any more.

As far as the podunk thing... I went to undergrad in a town of 5,000 people, with people who graduated in high school classes of 20. All of them use the term podunk pretty affectionately to refer to the college town and their home towns. A lot of those people take a lot of pride bring from small town America and I haven't experienced a small townie being offended by the term podunk. I truly think that's where DVMD was coming from; not from a place of ignorance. Though I disagree with the concept of 58k being podunk after living in a one stoplight town for 5 years.

 

[DVMDream]

A ton of schools are missing a radiologist because they can make double the salary working from home in their pj's hanging with their spawn. Last I heard, 17 schools were missing a radiologist.

Illinois is only missing a surgical oncologist at this point (since our radiologist is starting this summer). As far as other schools, not a 100% sure who has what any more.

As far as the podunk thing... I went to undergrad in a town of 5,000 people, with people who graduated in high school classes of 20. All of them use the term podunk pretty affectionately to refer to the college town and their home towns. A lot of those people take a lot of pride bring from small town America and I haven't experienced a small townie being offended by the term podunk. I truly think that's where DVMD was coming from; not from a place of ignorance. Though I disagree with the concept of 58k being podunk after living in a one stoplight town for 5 years.

When you live in a large metropolitan area of 4 million people most of your life..... 58k is podunk....

I did go to undergrad with a guy who grew up in a town where the population was 3k and he felt crowded in the college town of 70k people....

It is all relative, everyone will have a different definition based on their own individual experiences.

 

[JaynaAli]

My hometown has 800 people. You have to drive thirty miles to even get groceries. There are no stoplights. On mondays all three of the restaurants are closed. I have never viewed podunk as an insult.

Undergrad and vet school were in cities of like 50k. It felt pretty big. Now I’m in a city of 120k and it’s really bigger than I’d like. I wish I could go back to the 50k size town and then live 10-20 mines outside of it. But I also just interviewed for a job in a city of several million?

 

[battie]

My hometown has 800 people. You have to drive thirty miles to even get groceries. There are no stoplights. On mondays all three of the restaurants are closed. I have never viewed podunk as an insult.

Undergrad and vet school were in cities of like 50k. It felt pretty big. Now I’m in a city of 120k and it’s really bigger than I’d like. I wish I could go back to the 50k size town and then live 10-20 mines outside of it. But I also just interviewed for a job in a city of several million?

I used to want to live in my old undergrad town. Life has changed dramatically over the last few years, so I don't know if that will ever happen. If I ever run away from all my adult responsibilities, yall know that's where I've gone!

 

[Georgethecat]

Though I disagree with the concept of 58k being podunk after living in a one stoplight town for 5 years.

What’s a stoplight??? Growing up my nearest town had and still only has a traffic circle.

 

[battie]

What’s a stoplight??? Growing up my nearest town had and still only has a traffic circle.

I LOVE traffic circles!!!!!

There was a Walmart in our town, but we were over 100 miles from the nearest Target. That was disappointing.

 

[Georgethecat]

I LOVE traffic circles!!!!!

There was a Walmart in our town, but we were over 100 miles from the nearest Target. That was disappointing.

The traffic circle is remarkably efficient!

No Wal Mart or Target, but both about 30-45 minutes away. Highlight was a Tastee Freez and now a Hardee’s and Food Lion

 

[ajs513]

The traffic circle is remarkably efficient!

As someone who wrote a 12 page proposal on switching from traffic lights to roundabouts and the safety, congestion, and cost benefits involved, I agree.

 

[battie]

This teenager is the only person in his graduating class

Meet Agate School District #300’s graduating class: Bryan Cordova-Munoz.

www.9news.com

On the topic of tiny graduating classes

 

[deleted498041]

Granted, the way it’s supposed to be is that the education you get at any accredited school is the same, at a baseline, as any other accredited school. Everyone who has gone to LMU or Western has said they got a good education. But there’s no way to compare that with other schools since I don’t think there’s anyone who has gone to one school and then another.

A decent amount of Western grads have gone to other teaching hospitals for internships or residencies, and say that the overall education and readiness for graduation was similar between the institutions. While they did not spend four years there as a student, I think that makes for at least some kind of a comparison, although I'm not sure that everyone would agree. I won't argue the point that Western is much more expensive for essentially the same end result though.

 

[FutureFelineVet]

As someone who wrote a 12 page proposal on switching from traffic lights to roundabouts and the safety, congestion, and cost benefits involved, I agree.

Basically St. Kitts only has roundabouts (except for maybe two red lights downtown) and it is wonderful. The traffic flows so, so well (well for the most part lol). I love it.