Living with Bipolar and being a doctor

[bipolardoc]

Hi Everyone, first time user here. A little about me. I was accepted to St. George's School of Medicine back in 2003. I took a leave of absence and never returned due to my diagnoses of Bipolar II and Generalized Anxiety Disorder. I think its hard to explain what you go through with those illnesses unless you experience them first hand. When I took my leave of absence, I only was in for 4 weeks and didnt take any tests, I just knew something was seriously wrong with me and I was paying with private loans using a co-signer and couldnt risk staying. Let me add before I was diagnosed with Bipolar II and GAD I was very healthy and never never had a health problem. I also never had to rely on anyone. When I moved back to the US, I felt like a loser, like a failure and didnt know what was wrong with me and my family is the type that doesnt believe in mental health problems and steps on you when your down and takes credit when you succeed (cultural I guess). Here is the problem, I been on and off with pychiatry because I havent found success in the medications, I was put on pretty much all SSRIs you can think of, all anxiety meds, and most bipolar ones except lithium which I dont want to take because of all the blood testing frequency. So my health isnt a 100%, my anxiety is very high and gets agitated very easily with severe physical effects such as tightness of all musles, heart palpations, cold chills, tremors, etc... Also I am not sure if its because of my Bipolar or anxiety but I am always unsure of myself and my decisions, any decision I make I think is the wrong one, I am always indecessive, I always obsess about the stupidest things and the smallest things make me panic. I cant focus because of these obsessive thoughts, lack of sleep, and always being jittery and agitated, so ofcourse I need to venture into more crap treatment or hope for a mircale. My life has been hell to say the least since I left medical school, espeically because I had to move in back with my father who was a big source of my mental illness as a child (long story, every type of abuse you can think of, verbal, mental, watching mother almost beat to death, etc...) Now I finally have a friend who gave me the opportunity to live with him for free because he said that I will never get better living with my dad with the illness, I only did so for a lack of options and being too embarrassed to let any of my friends know of my illness. Now I finally feel free, I am going back to treatment, still feel like crap and still trying to pinpoint my illness, is it really BipolarII if so why hasnt it responded to treatment, can my GAD ever get under control, is my lack of concentration due to the Bipolar or ADHD or OCD, things that I still need to get answered and every pychiatrist seems to have a different educated guess. It doesnt help that you cant pick the cream of the crop for treatment because I have no medical benefits, never declared disability(wish i did for 6 years I was disabled, too late now). So now I am broke, living with my best friend and trying to get a fresh start.

My stats:
Top private, 3.2 Biology, expired 25MCAT by now. And ofcourse leave of absence from SGU from years ago.

My first step is employment that pays good to cover insurance and pay all the debt I incurred due to this illness, do I stay in the state I am in, the midwest, or do I ship to say Florida because it has alot of seats and gives me the best chance to be a future student?

What kind of job should I try to get with my stats, I am so lost and so need the money that pays more than research and has good insurance.

Am I never going to get better, I am too scared, part of the illness to take risks since I cant trust my mental health or thought process not to panic and lose it, should I just drop the whole medical school idea and just be realistic and go to a different profession that is less demanding in grad school but pays good enough to raise a family and pay off all my debts like a JD or a MHA?

Where do I start after the Job which I will love advice on what to get the job in, do I take more classes I cant afford, do I just take the MCAT and kill it or do I just call SGU and beg them to take me back (going back to SGU is tough option since I dont want a cosigner for loans and only US schools give more options for this so I would like to get educated in the US, I also really want to consider MD only due to the fact that I want to practice internationally and help all over the world with less limitations. I know its going to be harder with my stats, but is it impossible?

Do I just find any job locally or do I take advantage of not being in a contract or paying rent and just pick up and move to a place like Florida where I can just start fresh, establish residency and say if medical school didnt work due to my non improved health I can go for a JD or MHA and will still have great in state tuition for these programs at great statewide schools?

Do any of you have experienced extremes of my symptoms that you care to pm me about to let me know what worked or didnt work for you and what my chances of stabilization are, how it is coping taking such medications while in med school, is it even feasible, how does it effect your record for residency and beyond? I was hospitalized once for 10 days by choice because one of my new meds Geodon just drove me off the wall.

Sorry for the long post, I have so much steam and pain and had so much to vent, thank you all for listening and for responding. I truely appreciate it...

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[Lacheln]

Ok - there's a lot going on here, so I'm going to take it one thing at a time.

1) You can't get medical advice here, so nothing I say should be construed as anything other than what I know as a layman.

[Edited to remove medical advice]

4) You talked about several sources of stress: lack of income + debt, poor social support, and concerns about your health. These are all valid stressors, and they all play into each other.

My first step is employment that pays good to cover insurance and pay all the debt I incurred due to this illness, do I stay in the state I am in, the midwest, or do I ship to say Florida because it has alot of seats and gives me the best chance to be a future student?

I think your plan to focus on getting a job is a good one because it will give you an income, insurance, and, maybe most importantly, something else to think about all day. I also think moving away from your sole source of emotional support (your best friend) would be risky. You need to get healthy and stable before you tackle school. Assuming you can get a job in the area that pays enough to support yourself and provides medical benefits I would go that route.

5.

I only did so for a lack of options and being too embarrassed to let any of my friends know of my illness

Social support is so key! You shouldn't be going through this alone, try to let people in, they often surprise you. As far as the family crap goes...good for you for getting out of there. It sucks not to have family support, but you're not the only one in that situation.

6.

I was hospitalized once for 10 days by choice because one of my new meds Geodon just drove me off the wall.

Your medical records aren't a part of your application, they will not know unless you tell them.

7. Many people have successfully become doctors after overcoming personal issues, including mental illness. But I guess my overall advice would be to slow down and take one thing at a time. Your health comes first, you can't do anything else really without that. When you've got that under control you'll be in a much better position to tackle the med school path if it's still what you want. Getting a JD wouldn't be any less stressful most likely, so you still need to deal with this stuff before going back to school.

You may also want to search the boards for more info on this, or check out the mentor/confidential questions section - I've seen these types of questions come up before.

 

[ManualEvac]

Hi. I have "closet" BPII and ADHD. Due to some sensitive government work i was involved in a few years back, I asked my therapists not to formally diagnose me, so I have never had meds. However, I have lived the life, lost the jobs, run roughshod over the relationships, trashed my house, etc. in typical manic-depressive fashion.

I'm now 28 and looking into medicine as a change of career, and have had to reassess my mental health accordingly. I can't speak to medication, although I HEAVILY self-medicate with caffeine (acts as a tranquilizer for most people with ADHD). However, I would probably not be alive, much less functional without the help of a good therapist. I am currently in GIM music therapy, a specialized form of psychodynamic therapy, and it has helped immensely, but counseling, CBT, hypnosis, meditation, have all helped at various times throughout my life.

I am now relatively happy and successful with a good family life, but the struggle NEVER goes away completely.

Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions. Good luck, and know you're not alone. PS - I'm a professional music therapist, and this training and experience has been a big part of my own healing process.

 

[bipolardoc]

Hi. I have "closet" BPII and ADHD. Due to some sensitive government work i was involved in a few years back, I asked my therapists not to formally diagnose me, so I have never had meds. However, I have lived the life, lost the jobs, run roughshod over the relationships, trashed my house, etc. in typical manic-depressive fashion.

I'm now 28 and looking into medicine as a change of career, and have had to reassess my mental health accordingly. I can't speak to medication, although I HEAVILY self-medicate with caffeine (acts as a tranquilizer for most people with ADHD). However, I would probably not be alive, much less functional without the help of a good therapist. I am currently in GIM music therapy, a specialized form of psychodynamic therapy, and it has helped immensely, but counseling, CBT, hypnosis, meditation, have all helped at various times throughout my life.

I am now relatively happy and successful with a good family life, but the struggle NEVER goes away completely.

Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions. Good luck, and know you're not alone. PS - I'm a professional music therapist, and this training and experience has been a big part of my own healing process.

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

I am curious to how you consider yourself being bipolar II without ever being treated for it, what symtoms did you have exactly, you can pm me with this. This thing is I have been struggling with GAD for years since 2001 and now different psycs are diagnosing me with different things, first it was ADHD then I was put on a trail of Adderol and it depressed the heck out of me, so my doc eliminated that as a diagnoses, then he thought bipolar II but because I dont have too much mania, he kind of swayed away from it. I know I have severe GAD, but there is something else there, the never stopping racing thoughts, the lack of attention, hard to focus, irritated easily, etc... I am almost scared of the doctors now with how many diagnoses and different horror stories I had with the meds. All I know is I cant handle it on my own, let me tell you I suppressed my GAD all thru undergrad, the first week of med school it alllllllllllllllllllllll came down and blew out on me out of no where and caused me to have to take a leave of absence that extended 6 years afterwards. I dont recommend denying your diagnosis or worrying what doctors write, eventually it will come out and needs to be treated. I think its awesome to have alternative therapies working for you, I tryed them all, they dont work for me. I think my condition got too severe for me.

Keep me posted on your progress and good luck with everything...

 

[njbmd]

My stats:
Top private, 3.2 Biology, expired 25MCAT by now. And ofcourse leave of absence from SGU from years ago.

My first step is employment that pays good to cover insurance and pay all the debt I incurred due to this illness, do I stay in the state I am in, the midwest, or do I ship to say Florida because it has alot of seats and gives me the best chance to be a future student?

What kind of job should I try to get with my stats, I am so lost and so need the money that pays more than research and has good insurance.

Am I never going to get better, I am too scared, part of the illness to take risks since I cant trust my mental health or thought process not to panic and lose it, should I just drop the whole medical school idea and just be realistic and go to a different profession that is less demanding in grad school but pays good enough to raise a family and pay off all my debts like a JD or a MHA?

I just call SGU and beg them to take me back (going back to SGU is tough option since I dont want a cosigner for loans and only US schools give more options for this so I would like to get educated in the US, I also really want to consider MD only due to the fact that I want to practice internationally and help all over the world with less limitations. I know its going to be harder with my stats, but is it impossible?

Do I just find any job locally or do I take advantage of not being in a contract or paying rent and just pick up and move to a place like Florida where I can just start fresh, establish residency and say if medical school didnt work due to my non improved health I can go for a JD or MHA and will still have great in state tuition for these programs at great statewide schools?

Sorry for the long post, I have so much steam and pain and had so much to vent, thank you all for listening and for responding. I truely appreciate it...

First, get your health under control and worry about employment or school later. Nothing academically or financially is going to work well for you if you are dealing with physical problems. Controlling your health problems will take time and may take years but they need to be worked out before you attempt to get back into academics.

Second, it is highly unlikely that you are going to be able to get into medical school in the United States allopathic or osteopathic because you have attended overseas medical school and left. Your best bet for medical school is to find some funding,and go back to your previous medical school to complete your medical education. After that, try to come back to this country for residency (difficult but not impossible). You need to find out how much time you can remain on leave and work on getting health matters settled as soon as possible.

If this isn't possible, you might look into other medical careers that might give you satisfaction.

 

[bipolardoc]

First, get your health under control and worry about employment or school later. Nothing academically or financially is going to work well for you if you are dealing with physical problems. Controlling your health problems will take time and may take years but they need to be worked out before you attempt to get back into academics.

Second, it is highly unlikely that you are going to be able to get into medical school in the United States allopathic or osteopathic because you have attended overseas medical school and left. Your best bet for medical school is to find some funding,and go back to your previous medical school to complete your medical education. After that, try to come back to this country for residency (difficult but not impossible). You need to find out how much time you can remain on leave and work on getting health matters settled as soon as possible.

If this isn't possible, you might look into other medical careers that might give you satisfaction.

Why would it effect applying to medical school here, I am confused. I didnt complete any class, left after 2 weeks only. No grades, excused medical leave of absence. I don't think I will ever be able to get my credit to the level they want without a co-signer and I cant/wont be able to get a co-signer, wont future MD or DO schools just understand if I was honest and just explained everything to them straight up?

Also, thanks for those who sent me personal pms regarding this issue, for those who experienced similar situations or are currently in a similar situation, I would love to hear your stories as well. Its very difficult for anyone to gauge what this is like unless they experienced it or are experiencing it personally. It sucks, let me tell you. I am so depressed that I am getting older and it seems like my doctor dreams are just dwindling away.

 

[Lacheln]

Why would it effect applying to medical school here, I am confused. I didnt complete any class, left after 2 weeks only. No grades, excused medical leave of absence. I don't think I will ever be able to get my credit to the level they want without a co-signer and I cant/wont be able to get a co-signer, wont future MD or DO schools just understand if I was honest and just explained everything to them straight up?

Also, thanks for those who sent me personal pms regarding this issue, for those who experienced similar situations or are currently in a similar situation, I would love to hear your stories as well. Its very difficult for anyone to gauge what this is like unless they experienced it or are experiencing it personally. It sucks, let me tell you. I am so depressed that I am getting older and it seems like my doctor dreams are just dwindling away.

You were technically matriculated, since you registered for classes. You have to answer on the AMCAS if you've ever been matriculated in an allopathic medical school. You then get some space to explain the situation.

I'm assuming you've already unsuccessfully applied to US schools and didn't get in (hence going to the Caribbean), so the cards are stacked steeply against you. You have reasons of course, but at a reapplicant you have to show how you've significantly improved, and any adcom is probably going to see the withdrawal as a red flag, along with the weak application. You can strengthen your application with some A's and a buffed up MCAT, but you will still have to explain why you left, your time off, and then convince the adcom that what happened before won't happen again.

Take one thing at a time, there's no rush. I don't know how old you are, but check out the nontrad ages thread. Your dream isn't gone completely, but you need to first get your health under control if you are going to have any chance of being successful.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I agree with NJB: before even starting the application process or retaking the MCAT you need stability. First you MUST get you health in order. Get a solid diagnosis and get on medication that WORKS.

Once you are on solid ground then think about making changes like the move or retaking the MCAT but not before.

I dont think you will have any shot at a US school. For one you left a medical school after you matriculated which is a big no-no. Furthermore it sounds like you may have been impaired by your illness which could wreak havoc on your ability to get licenced. No one on this board can tell you yay or nay as to your ability to get into a US school. Your best bet, after you get your health in order, is to contact a few dean of admissions at your state schools. Talk/email things over with them. They will have a much better idea if you will have a shot at US schools based on your history.

Otherwise see if you can get back into SGU.

Good luck

 

[bipolardoc]

I agree with NJB: before even starting the application process or retaking the MCAT you need stability. First you MUST get you health in order. Get a solid diagnosis and get on medication that WORKS.

Once you are on solid ground then think about making changes like the move or retaking the MCAT but not before.

I dont think you will have any shot at a US school. For one you left a medical school after you matriculated which is a big no-no. Furthermore it sounds like you may have been impaired by your illness which could wreak havoc on your ability to get licenced. No one on this board can tell you yay or nay as to your ability to get into a US school. Your best bet, after you get your health in order, is to contact a few dean of admissions at your state schools. Talk/email things over with them. They will have a much better idea if you will have a shot at US schools based on your history.

Otherwise see if you can get back into SGU.

Good luck

Do you really think my illness will be a huge deal in getting licensed? Dont alot of medical students have depression, anxiety, bipolar or other mental illnesses as well? Should I just give the idea up, I mean its enough loops to get licensed and a residency out of a carib medical school, does this illness just kill all hope for me?

 

[MP50801]

Do you really think my illness will be a huge deal in getting licensed? Dont alot of medical students have depression, anxiety, bipolar or other mental illnesses as well? Should I just give the idea up, I mean its enough loops to get licensed and a residency out of a carib medical school, does this illness just kill all hope for me?

On a side note, you might find the book "An Unquiet Mind: A Memoir of Moods and Madness" interesting. It's about a person who deals with manic-depression through college, medical school, and professional career.

 

[viostorm]

Do you really think my illness will be a huge deal in getting licensed? Dont alot of medical students have depression, anxiety, bipolar or other mental illnesses as well? Should I just give the idea up, I mean its enough loops to get licensed and a residency out of a carib medical school, does this illness just kill all hope for me?

I'd talk to your psychiatrist specifically about your goals and perhaps get a second opinion.

I think your plan of trying to hold a steady job first is a good one. If you can do that then perhaps medical school may be an option.

The BPD can pose a serious challenge to maintaining a high level of functioning which is required of a physician.

If you were manic and performing surgery lots of bad things could happen. People do crazy stuff during manic episodes.

I personally would not pursue being a physician if you have known BPD.

None of my med student collegues have BPD that I know of, they may have GAD, depression, or OCD. BPD is a completely different disease.

 

[Lacheln]

I'd talk to your psychiatrist specifically about your goals and perhaps get a second opinion.

I think your plan of trying to hold a steady job first is a good one. If you can do that then perhaps medical school may be an option.

The BPD can pose a serious challenge to maintaining a high level of functioning which is required of a physician.

If you were manic and performing surgery lots of bad things could happen. People do crazy stuff during manic episodes.

I personally would not pursue being a physician if you have known BPD.

None of my med student collegues have BPD that I know of, they may have GAD, depression, or OCD. BPD is a completely different disease.

I know offhand of several doctors (IM, Psych, Radiology) with bipolar disease. Hell, I know of at least one surgeon with Tourettes. An interesting book is Kay Redfield Jamison's autobiography, An Unquiet Mind. Granted she's a clinical psychologist, not MD, but she's a professor of psychiatry at Hopkins and no one would argue that she's not extremely high functioning, despite her bipolar I.

Bipolar II is also very different from bipolar I.

 

[BlinkUnquiet]

I wont mention BP to the adcoms.There is still a stigma attached to mental illness. If your are responsive to medication and avoiding such depressants as alcohol and getting enough sleep, your goal as a doctor is achievable. First step is to get on the right med,then u can try yourself out by takin the MCAT again, if u can produce a good score and show the adcoms what happened was a fluke, you have shot. Or you might apply to a postbac, do well in there then apply to med school.It's about showing an upward trend to the adcoms so that they kow you are deserving of spot. That's my 2-cents . Good luck

 

[Mr. Beef]

I think you have taken the right steps in getting your life back on track. The new housing situation is a start.

I would not recommend moving to another state like Florida because lord knows what that might do for your illness.

Right now try to find something in your area that fits career wise with your degree that will get you benefits. After you get your benefits try to find a Psychiatrist your are comfortable with. (I too have a mental illness and went through two MD's and a Nurse Practitioner before I found my current MD and I feel comfortable with him.)

After that, I would start saving to go back to Medical School. Granted it has been almost five years since you last attended Medical School in St. George; I would try to get a hold of them and see what your options are. You may have to jump through some hoops, but It'll help get you going in the right direction.

"I'm pulling for ya. We're all in this together." - Red Green "The Red Green Show"

Mr. Beef

 

[bipolardoc]

I think you have taken the right steps in getting your life back on track. The new housing situation is a start.

I would not recommend moving to another state like Florida because lord knows what that might do for your illness.

Right now try to find something in your area that fits career wise with your degree that will get you benefits. After you get your benefits try to find a Psychiatrist your are comfortable with. (I too have a mental illness and went through two MD's and a Nurse Practitioner before I found my current MD and I feel comfortable with him.)

After that, I would start saving to go back to Medical School. Granted it has been almost five years since you last attended Medical School in St. George; I would try to get a hold of them and see what your options are. You may have to jump through some hoops, but It'll help get you going in the right direction.

"I'm pulling for ya. We're all in this together." - Red Green "The Red Green Show"

Mr. Beef

Thank you for your motivating words. If you dont mind sharing your story through pm that would be great...

 

[bipolardoc]

For those taking meds for bipolar, GAD, Depression etc... how do you manage flipping the med bills and doc bills while in school? Has the meds affected your studies/concentration in a negative way, I know a lot of meds from experience makes me really sleepy and tired and lack concentration and sometimes more anxious. You can pm me if you dont want it public, thanks all...

 

[crazydiamond]

Did you just get diagnosed with BPII while in med school? Was your behavior different there than it was before starting school?

I ask because I was suspected of having, but not formally diagnosed, as having BPII. I'm actually not bipolar. But severe depression plus high anxiety made it appear that I did. SSRIs don't work that great for me, either, though Zoloft worked somewhat. It wasn't until I got extensive treatment (mainly just a lot of therapy) and increased my social support did things get better and my psychologist then decided I didn't really have BPII. Just a lot of depression and a lot of anxiety. Things get bad when I'm under a lot of stress, as happens to most of us.

So if this diagnosis was brandnew and your behavior/thoughts where different from before you started med school, then it's possible it's not BP but rather the anxiety and depression making it seem so.

Regardless of what you call it, though, your symptoms are a problem. I think the best thing to do is to a) get healthy b) get a support system c) if re-admitted, do not disclose.

 

[bipolardoc]

Did you just get diagnosed with BPII while in med school? Was your behavior different there than it was before starting school?

I ask because I was suspected of having, but not formally diagnosed, as having BPII. I'm actually not bipolar. But severe depression plus high anxiety made it appear that I did. SSRIs don't work that great for me, either, though Zoloft worked somewhat. It wasn't until I got extensive treatment (mainly just a lot of therapy) and increased my social support did things get better and my psychologist then decided I didn't really have BPII. Just a lot of depression and a lot of anxiety. Things get bad when I'm under a lot of stress, as happens to most of us.

So if this diagnosis was brandnew and your behavior/thoughts where different from before you started med school, then it's possible it's not BP but rather the anxiety and depression making it seem so.

Regardless of what you call it, though, your symptoms are a problem. I think the best thing to do is to a) get healthy b) get a support system c) if re-admitted, do not disclose.

I say some symtoms before med school, but nothing to cause me to be disabled to the point of not being functional like when I entered med school. It was the first 2 weeks of med school that made me lose it 100%, I think my docs are just throwing diagnoses like throwing darts on a board and seeing what sticks. I seen like three, mostly county or poor people ones because of my none existant income, each one of them has a different opinion and different favorite of drug coctails or what they think works, it is really stressful and consumed too many years out of my life and at times made me want to give up on the medical school idea and school period. It is extremely fustrating to not have 100% control over your mind and having these symtoms control you physically and mentally. But I agree, I think I may have just extreme levels of anxiety and depression, but in the end does the diagnoses even matter as long as some type of treatment works?...

 

[alpha62]

I would pick up a copy of your states quarterly medical board discipline report and see how understanding your so called peers are going to be with you.

It's not bad enough there are about a million ways to screw up in this racket, now the reports are filling up with "disruptive physician" violations.

What I take a disruptive physician to be now days is just about anybody that speaks their mind, refuses to toe the party line, calls people on their BS, and refuses to bend over.

If you get fed up one day and verbally call out an idiot nurse, administrative *****... I'll cost you about $ 5000.00 fine, a hickey on your databank, increased malpractice fees, and manatory anger management classes (there's a racket cottage industry there too)

If you don't think you can be a sucessfull managed care, Hmo robot at the mercy of clipboard nurses, administrative jerk offs, and your hypomania commands you start living life out loud.....you might not want to be a physician.

 

[bipolardoc]

I would pick up a copy of your states quarterly medical board discipline report and see how understanding your so called peers are going to be with you.

It's not bad enough there are about a million ways to screw up in this racket, now the reports are filling up with "disruptive physician" violations.

What I take a disruptive physician to be now days is just about anybody that speaks their mind, refuses to toe the party line, calls people on their BS, and refuses to bend over.

If you get fed up one day and verbally call out an idiot nurse, administrative *****... I'll cost you about $ 5000.00 fine, a hickey on your databank, increased malpractice fees, and manatory anger management classes (there's a racket cottage industry there too)

If you don't think you can be a sucessfull managed care, Hmo robot at the mercy of clipboard nurses, administrative jerk offs, and your hypomania commands you start living life out loud.....you might not want to be a physician.

Are you a doctor, why the negative experience? Do you know of anyone with a similar illness who is in medical school or a doctor?

 

[alpha62]

Are you a doctor, why the negative experience? Do you know of anyone with a similar illness who is in medical school or a doctor?

I'm a PA, but guess what, the people sitting on your medical board aren't all doctors either.... they're political appointees.

You aren't suffering from delusions too are you ? You actually think this racket is a level playing field ?

 

[ncjpj]

Bipolardoc, thank you for being willing to put yourself out there, it's not easy. To be frank, the opinions of all us people here don't mean squat in answering your original questions. Only you know if you have the unyielding dedication that is required to complete a medical education and whether it is the right choice for you. In my opinion, everything else is negotiable.

Bipolardoc, you have an unique gift, an intimate understanding of the patient experience in receiving mental health care. You know parts that are broken, black holes where patients fall through and lose vast measures in their quality of life.

I know from trudging through life and now pursuing a pre-med program that my own self-interest is an insufficient drive, I've grown to rely on a purpose greater than myself to get through those nights when I want to SCREAM at the chem book. Perhaps the knowledge that you can help those suffering as you have where no other physician can will be yours. If you work hard enough, it's yours doc. Good luck!

-Jay

 

[alpha62]

Hell yes I know of Physicians with Bipolar. Of course I do and I've watched a brilliant mind crash and burn right and front of me. I get no pleasure in watching it. I question my own sanity every day, problem is, about half the people in this business don't and they're in charge.

Ever heard of Operation Iraqi Freedom ? Expansive delusions of super human ability aren't limited to medicine bud.

Go ahead, get in this business, your patients will greet you as a liberator with flowers and chocolates.... sound familar ?

 

[bipolardoc]

I was just wondering if there is anyone here with any chronic health issues who are applying or in medical school. I personally have extreme anxiety/depression, was once a med student at SGU for a semester but had to leave due to my illness years ago. I was wondering are there any students with depression, anxiety, biploar, diabetes, any illness that is chronic that you can think of.
Tell us about your transition into a student, tell us about your transition, how are you planning on dealing with your illness while in medical school including meds, doctors, money for healthcare, obstacles studying while dealing with your illness. Did you report your illness in you personal statement and how will you report it during license time? Any stories will be appreciated.

 

[psych22]

Hell yes I know of Physicians with Bipolar. Of course I do and I've watched a brilliant mind crash and burn right and front of me. I get no pleasure in watching it. I question my own sanity every day, problem is, about half the people in this business don't and they're in charge.

Ever heard of Operation Iraqi Freedom ? Expansive delusions of super human ability aren't limited to medicine bud.

Go ahead, get in this business, your patients will greet you as a liberator with flowers and chocolates.... sound familar ?

"Go ahead, get in this business, your patients will greet you as a liberator with flowers and chocolates.... sound familar ?"
1- I don't get it, can someone explain what he's getting at with this statement?

2- Alpha62 was a 2+year member with over 500 posts... does anyone know why did he get banned?

 

[student1799]

"Go ahead, get in this business, your patients will greet you as a liberator with flowers and chocolates.... sound familar ?"
1- I don't get it, can someone explain what he's getting at with this statement?

2- Alpha62 was a 2+year member with over 500 posts... does anyone know why did he get banned?

He got banned for posting unprovoked ugly, vicious and hateful personal attacks against numerous members--especially females. (The post that got him banned was so bad that it was removed within a couple of hours.)

I say good riddance to him. This is supposed to be a community, and all he had to contribute on this forum was hatred for others.

 

[ChairmanMao]

He was OK at first when he started posting but a few months ago, he really started getting on people's nerves with his personal attacks. I'm not sure what his deal is, but he (or she) may be having personal problems or other issues and he started taking it out on the other members here.

 

[QofQuimica]

Alpha62 was a 2+year member with over 500 posts... does anyone know why did he get banned?

I'm sorry, but we don't discuss the disciplinary actions taken against any of our users with other users. That would be a violation of SDN's privacy policy, which we take very seriously. Thank you for your understanding concerning this issue.

 

[eforest]

I can relate to this thread- I have BPII and am pursuing medical school. I knew I was sick prior to matriculation and have been on medication for years. It makes things very difficult. The treatment, medication and psychiatrist, very expensive. Also, I can't pull all-nighters like my classmates can. It's too potentially destabilizing. So, if I'm on call until 10 pm, go home to do a write up, I'll go to bed without perfecting my presentation as this is better in the long run. Rotations requiring 24 hour +call will be very difficult to manage. Also, BP has a time committment. I need to make sure I save room for psychiatrist visits/ I need to make sure I get to the pharmacy when I need to, etc.

I don't regret going to medical school, I picked the right career. But, it sounds like the OP is in a more difficult situation logistically than I've ever been in in terms of finance, familiy support, etc.

Don't give up on medical school but really consider your options. It sounds like what you have is pretty treatment refractory but it also sounds like what you have is related not only to chemical imbalance but also life difficulties that you mentioned. This is a complicated situation. Sometimes if people suffer abuse/ otherwise difficult childhood, the associated psychiatric/psychological problems don't surface until the adult years. Some people even end up with post traumatic stress disorder from traumatic childhood experiences. Seeing your mother beaten definitely counts as a traumatic experience.

 

[CfromLA]

If you have not already done so, you should really go to the bookstore/library and read all you can about Bipolar Disorder and GAD. Finding the right medication and doctor is the next step. I was diagnosed with Bipolar I rapid cycling and often "mixed state" in my early 20s, and it took several years to find the right medication and learn how to manage it. I tried many different medicines, as rapid cycling tends to be more difficult to treat. My doctor and I finally found the right combo, and let me tell you--it's a wonderful experience when you can finally say, "Ah, this feels like me again." Please PM me if you'd like and I can be more specific about my experiences and treatments that worked for me (and for others I know) so that you can read up on them and possibly discuss them with you doctor.

Hopefully you can find a regimen that works for you. As you learn more about how to live with your illness, whether it's Bipolar II or GAD, you'll be able to recognize the "red flags" and warning signs so that you can treat and avoid or "ward off" any break-through symptoms. So don't worry too much now about how things are going to be in med school. I know that right now it is all-consuming, but remember--the disease isn't you. It doesn't define you and your personality. It is just something that is superimposed on your life that you can learn to control.

I would not attempt to take classes before becoming stable. I tried to do this will little success, and it is quite a blemish on my transcript that will be difficult to explain to adcoms. I'm currently finishing up my undergrad and will be applying to medical school in summer.

As far as doctors go, you may have to try a few. If you can't get insurance, try calling the county health services. They should be able to tell you where you can get treatment on a sliding payscale (if they don't have doctors on their staff that can treat you).

Also, I think SGU asks you to disclose health issues on your application, and you'd likely have to explain your leave of absence anyway. If you can't get back in there, try AUC or Ross. I don't know if SGU does this, but at Ross you only do your first two years on the island, then go to their sister school in the states (my twin brother goes there). If you do really well on your boards, you shouldn't be too disadvantaged. But then again, I don't really have any experience there. But don't worry about this all yet. First things first: get healthy.

 

[sitthakim]

For those taking meds for bipolar, GAD, Depression etc... how do you manage flipping the med bills and doc bills while in school? Has the meds affected your studies/concentration in a negative way, I know a lot of meds from experience makes me really sleepy and tired and lack concentration and sometimes more anxious. You can pm me if you dont want it public, thanks all...

Get your meds sorted out before you start anything. They can either be the thing that helps you get your life together or they can totally screw it up more.

I was on meds for major depression/GAD that actually forced me to leave my undergrad. I was on a hugely large amount of them (make sure you really actually trust your psych, and don't just do what they say because they have a lot of fancy degrees and whatnot), and the problems I experienced ranged from not being able to concentrate on anything to crazy vital signs and spending time in the hospital. I eventually went off all of mine (my stuff was largely situational), which was when I had to leave school, because the withdrawal symptoms were so bad that I couldn't get out of bed for about 4 months. It took me 3 years to get to a place where I could think about returning to ugrad (there was a detour to acupuncture school along the way), which is going to be REALLY INTERESTING to explain on my apps, hmm....

Anyway, I'm not trying to be anti-med at all. Do whatever it is you need to do to take care of your health. The most important thing, IMO is to be as stable as possible before thinking of taking up something that is as huge a commitment as med school.

 

[psych22]

Get your meds sorted out before you start anything. They can either be the thing that helps you get your life together or they can totally screw it up more.

I was on meds for major depression/GAD that actually forced me to leave my undergrad. I was on a hugely large amount of them (make sure you really actually trust your psych, and don't just do what they say because they have a lot of fancy degrees and whatnot), and the problems I experienced ranged from not being able to concentrate on anything to crazy vital signs and spending time in the hospital. I eventually went off all of mine (my stuff was largely situational), which was when I had to leave school, because the withdrawal symptoms were so bad that I couldn't get out of bed for about 4 months. It took me 3 years to get to a place where I could think about returning to ugrad (there was a detour to acupuncture school along the way), which is going to be REALLY INTERESTING to explain on my apps, hmm....

Anyway, I'm not trying to be anti-med at all. Do whatever it is you need to do to take care of your health. The most important thing, IMO is to be as stable as possible before thinking of taking up something that is as huge a commitment as med school.

sitthakim, im sorry that you had to experience this instability and detour that to acupuncture school. a couple questions.

mainly, how have you proven to yourself that you've gotten past your instability issues?

if you can answer that, i guess it wouldn't be so hard to discuss the reality of your errors in going off to acupuncture school and not finishing it (if i recall from another thread).

will you be applying to US schools only, or would caribbean be an option for you?

 

[psych22]

I'm sorry, but we don't discuss the disciplinary actions taken against any of our users with other users. That would be a violation of SDN's privacy policy, which we take very seriously. Thank you for your understanding concerning this issue.

its the psychologist in me. and i think a superficial review of how he got banned would serve as a reinforcement of SDN's terms amongst the community members. also, i find QofQuimca's post interesting and something that readers of this thread could possibly learn from if we discussed more. however, i understand rules are rules and i won't post questions of this nature again.

 

[sitthakim]

sitthakim, im sorry that you had to experience this instability and detour that to acupuncture school. a couple questions.

mainly, how have you proven to yourself that you've gotten past your instability issues?

if you can answer that, i guess it wouldn't be so hard to discuss the reality of your errors in going off to acupuncture school and not finishing it (if i recall from another thread).

will you be applying to US schools only, or would caribbean be an option for you?

Actually, what was going on to get me put on meds to begin with was traced biochemically to a gluten intolerance. I was having other physical problems too that couldn't be explained, and finally i saw a nutritionist who immediately had me tested for celiac... and the results came back very very positive. It was crazy how much everything in my life changed for the better after I cut gluten out, which was in early 2007. I had no idea that a food intolerance could effect one emotionally, but apparently with celiac it is pretty common. (The med withdrawals subsided about a year after I went off of them, and that was several years ago now.)

Also, I talked to my old adviser at acu school and I am only a few credits shy of a different degree they offer, so I am going to take those and finish that degree instead (it will be a 2nd bachelor's).

I'm planning on applying to DO schools only... med school with out OMM doesn't really interest me.

 

[QofQuimica]

its the psychologist in me. and i think a superficial review of how he got banned would serve as a reinforcement of SDN's terms amongst the community members. also, i find QofQuimca's post interesting and something that readers of this thread could possibly learn from if we discussed more. however, i understand rules are rules and i won't post questions of this nature again.

Banning users is not done lightly or arbitrarily. This is SDN's policy for banning users, from the SDN TOS. Note the relevant portion highlighted in bold:

The Student Doctor Network reserves the right at its sole discretion to restrict, suspend, or terminate your access to any part of these forums. If you violate any of the rules stated in this document or any other service terms documents, a moderator will remove the offending message and send you a note letting you know why the message was removed and requesting that you adhere to the forum policies. It is your responsibility to maintain a current, valid email address in your registration information so that our moderators can contact you in the event of a policy violation. Any member who violates our policies three times will be denied access to these forums for a period of 30 days, whether or not they were able to receive a message from a moderator stating the nature of the violation. Any member who refuses to comply with the policies of these forums will be banned permanently.

As I explained previously, SDN mods do not discuss disciplinary actions taken against any of our users with other users. All SDN mods (including me) have signed a nondisclosure agreement (NDA) wherein we agree not to disclose any user information to which we have access as mods. The wording of the NDA specifically stipulates that we must keep all personal information concerning our users, including information concerning disciplinary issues, confidential. Thus, I am not at liberty to discuss any user's personal information, including disciplinary actions, with other users such as yourselves. However, rest assured that if there is ever any disciplinary action taken against one of you, it will be discussed with you (and only you) in considerable detail!

Can't say I really have much else to add that would enlighten y'all any further on the first subject without violating the second.

 

[psych22]

Actually, what was going on to get me put on meds to begin with was traced biochemically to a gluten intolerance. I was having other physical problems too that couldn't be explained, and finally i saw a nutritionist who immediately had me tested for celiac... and the results came back very very positive. It was crazy how much everything in my life changed for the better after I cut gluten out, which was in early 2007. I had no idea that a food intolerance could effect one emotionally, but apparently with celiac it is pretty common. (The med withdrawals subsided about a year after I went off of them, and that was several years ago now.)

Also, I talked to my old adviser at acu school and I am only a few credits shy of a different degree they offer, so I am going to take those and finish that degree instead (it will be a 2nd bachelor's).

I'm planning on applying to DO schools only... med school with out OMM doesn't really interest me.

sounds pretty convincing as long as you can show ADCOMs evidence of stability as demonstrated by consistent high achievement in pursuit of your (med) passion after the time you resolved your issues.

 

[blueperson]

That is an interesting question. I don't have much to add other than I had a friend when I was in grad school who left our program (one of 2 in country) and was able to get her undergraduate school (which had a professional school like we did... only ranked near the bottom). She had anxiety. It helped her to be somewhere that was more "familiar." I'm guessing she knew of the services at that school as well. While we are good friends to this day (and the funny thing is I finished at a Great Lakes school... she finished at a New England school and now we are living in the same Mid-Atlantic metro area). She just felt "more comfortable" back at her old school. She has said it probably would have turned out fine at our school but she was worried so "transferred" (which they really don't do in our graduate professional programs). I don't know if people going to med school have done this.

Other than that I know of an old coworker that had depression I think it was. Her family was extremely wealthy so they could pay for whatever she needed wherever she needed it. Her significant other took the train every weekend to help her. I recall her wanting to find an apartment there where the windows were a certain dimension in size for light. I know she finished and it didn't seem to be that big of a deal for her.

I know a guy who is also taking pre-med courses and he had a condition where he had no body hair (head, eyelashes, arms, etc.) and was fairly light complected (is that the word)? He wanted to be a doctor he said "for obvious reasons." I don't know what kinds of internal issues he might have been having that related to whatever it was he had.

When I was an undergrad I recall a third year med student killing himself. It was in the school paper. I also recall a fourth year student who found out his third year that he had leukemia. He died in March his fourth year. Since I didn't know them personally I don't have much to offer.

 

[bipolardoc]

Hello guys, I would like some help. Please only those who have specific answers and specific experience/knowledge in the subject. I attended a carib MD school in 2003, got sick (anxiety), left after only 2 weeks, didnt take no exam, left on good terms. I now want to apply MD/DO, do I have to disclose this to med schools? I think it will kill my chances. The reason I dont want to go back to the carib is because I dont have a cosigner anymore to co-sign my loan as you have to go with private loans mostly if you study in the carib, and after my health problem I would rather stay in the USA since if anything ever happens again I will have better resources (healthcare) and support in US schools as they are not just purely money oriented. I need to know from those who have experience. I know if you drop out a US MD your chances are gone, but what if you just went for 2 weeks to a carib med school and want to enroll in a US med school. I want to know now before I invest a killing in retaking the MCAT and going thru the high costs of applying when I am broke...

THANK YOU!

 

[gman33]

Yes you need to disclose this and yes it will probably kill your chances.

 

[J ROD]

I would because if they find out you are done.

But, if you disclose it, you are probably done too. Tough one!


I'm curious to know how they would know though...anyone know for sure.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

It could happen, but your chances aren't good. One of the mods here dropped out of a combined BS/MD program and getting back into a medical school wasn't a quick, easy, or cheap proposition for him.

If you left your school on good terms your best option is to return there.

If you really want to be a physician and just can't go back to the islands, then pony up the money and take the MCAT, take some advanced coursework (2003 was a long time ago, admissions wise), and demonstrate that you're ready and able to succeed in medical school.

Be prepared for rejections and be prepared to reapply. Quite frankly, it is already difficult to get into medical school without a history of dropping out of an MD program. It could take years before you find your ticket (at which point it would probably have been cheaper and easier just to return to the Caribbean).

 

[njbmd]

Question answered in previous thread and now merged with previous thread.

 

[dragonfly99]

OP, first you need to seek medical treatment for your psychiatric issues. I'm sorry you've had negative experiences thus far. I know it can be difficult. I'm sorry you experiences what you did as a child. I think one thing that could be helpful is to try and stay with the same psychiatrist for a few months...no matter how good or bad he/she is, it can be really hard to diagnose folks based on only a very few visits. Sometimes if patients are anxious it makes the doctor visit and patient/doctor experience worse, and sometimes the doc can't do a whole lot to fix that. It's a team effort between the doc and patient though, and "team chemistry" can definitely be important. It helps to have good insurance but there are definitely places and people you can go to for mental health treatment even if you don't have insurance and some of those folks are very dedicated to what they do. Just realize that whatever you're feeling now toward the psych docs and nurses, etc. is going to be influenced by the fact your illness isn't controlled...

I wouldn't move to Florida. Just get a job where you are, try to get some health insurance benefits. Even Starbucks, etc., just something fun, if you don't want to do research. Just get back on your feet first, then go from there.

You have to get your health in order before you even THINK about medical school once again. Also, it may not be worth the trouble. There are numerous other health care careers in which people pretty much do 90% of what we (doctors) do, particularly if you don't plan to be a surgeon or something. I mean, honestly a family nurse practitioner does 90% of the stuff I do when I moonlight (clinic and urgent care). An optometrist does 90% or what an opthalmologist does. Clinical pharmacists play important roles in patient care every day. Personally I think it would be better to just do another health care career than go through the crapola it would take to pursue med school admissions (and go through residency). And this is my honest view from the other side...at age 33.

p.s. I highly recommend "The Unquiet Mind" also. It's a fantastic book.

 

[optimisticdoc12]

I hope this provides a little optimism for those students and physicians with bipolar disorder. It is quite obvious that no physician would like to reveal his/her bipolar status, but thank goodness for anonymity.

I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder when I was 25. I am a foreign graduate (not caribbean school) and experienced my first panic attack right before my microbiology orals. I quite near failed it and would have lost time.

When I came to the US several years ago, I had my first manic episode amongst foreign docs studying for the boards. This obviously was followed by months long depression. I didn't take my step 1 until about 2 years after finishing med school. I somehow managed step 1, took a break to work in clinics, then when I had regained some confidence step 2 ck and cs with about 2 months between the two. At the time I had not yet gotten my green card so I had to strenghten my application some more. I did 2 years of research at a university. I had another episode in the university hospital, although it was not as bad as the first and did not lead to hospitalization but did lead to depression and anxiety. Nonetheless, I got great recommendations from higher up faculty. The first time i went directly thru post-match, did not make it. The second time around I got my residency and shortly afterwards had the worst manic episode yet, and of course lost my spot before even starting. Never giving up, I applied again (after months and months of sickening, crippling depression) and now I am keeping my fingers crossed for match day.

*Note: I denied my illness for many years. I am finally taking the required lithium and other drugs and am maintaining stability, although there is some residual depression.

What I'm trying to say is that nothing is impossible, but you have to be responsible about your illness, and of course not divulge to anyone related to your application process etc.

 

[vanslix]

Two things.

1 - from personal experience, one doesn't "get over" mental illness or become cured. You learn to manage and live with it.

2 - towards the goal of number 1, most require trying multiple approaches to find what works for them. It's usually not a one size fits all. Typically, medication doesn't work nearly as well as med+therapy. And for anxiety, there's lot of different modalities to try to manage that on top of the meds (exercise, meditation, therapy, acute stress techniques, etc).

I don't think these preclude a career in medicine but you do need to come to terms with it before trying again. Finding a good physician and counselor/therapist who are interested in working together would be a good start.