LOR timeline and interview invites

[KatieJune]

I'm just wondering if programs start sending invites before all LORs are in? If I have everything complete by Sept 1st, but my LOR are not in yet will programs wait before sending invites?

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[NotAProgDirector]

Depends on the field and how competitive the program is, but mostly the answer is yes. If your USMLE's look good, and your transcript is good, and the rest of your app looks fine, many programs will start offering invites without LOR's, or perhaps with one.

For the most competitive fields, connections are key and LOR's are more important. For the tip-top programs in any field, the same is true.

My personal feeling is that LOR's are mostly useless. They always say the student is great, top 10%, etc -- even if there have been multiple clinical failures. Every year there is someone who can't seem to get organized emough to get three LOR's submitted on time, and that's a red flag.

 

[Top Gun]

I'm just wondering if programs start sending invites before all LORs are in? If I have everything complete by Sept 1st, but my LOR are not in yet will programs wait before sending invites?

I did interviews in both IM and FP this past year. A lot of them sent out invites before all of my LOR's were in. I think if you let them know that the LOR's are on the way, they'll be pretty cool about it.

 

[mlw03]

my experience was that some programs did not review incomplete applications, period. i know this because i called and asked. LORs, while probably as useless as has been mentioned, are necessary and a severe pain because they're the part of the application not in your hands. it's frustrating as hell. for less competitive fields, i would consider thinking about getting in whatever letter you can, even if it'll be of lower quality, by sept 1. i'm not blindly saying one should do it, but consider your individual situation and at least think about it.

 

[hippoppop]

the hospital i worked, asked me to send my LOR request in late June, any idea how soon do the attendings take to write one?

 

[Winged Scapula]

the hospital i worked, asked me to send my LOR request in late June, any idea how soon do the attendings take to write one?

Depends on the attending.

Some may have it for you within a couple of weeks, others will require much longer (and multiple requests).

Its like anything else in this world..there are some who are organized, dedicated and will spend extra time to help others and there are those who are not.

 

[Dr McSteamy]

My personal feeling is that LOR's are mostly useless. They always say the student is great, top 10%, etc -- even if there have been multiple clinical failures. Every year there is someone who can't seem to get organized emough to get three LOR's submitted on time, and that's a red flag.

A- frickin -men to that

how many letters do you see that are just templates with names erased & swapped out?

this month, i have to go through the motions and req letters from attendings that don't truly even know me.

 

[Miami_med]

Depends on the field and how competitive the program is, but mostly the answer is yes. If your USMLE's look good, and your transcript is good, and the rest of your app looks fine, many programs will start offering invites without LOR's, or perhaps with one.

For the most competitive fields, connections are key and LOR's are more important. For the tip-top programs in any field, the same is true.

My personal feeling is that LOR's are mostly useless. They always say the student is great, top 10%, etc -- even if there have been multiple clinical failures. Every year there is someone who can't seem to get organized emough to get three LOR's submitted on time, and that's a red flag.

How late can a letter get in before it is considered "late?" I've got two sub-Is scheduled back to back in mid august and mid-september due to scheduling issues that are probably required to get appropriate letters for my specialty of choice (The one in August is definitely a must). The specialty is probably moderately competitive.

 

[Taurus]

When do most people take time off to do interviews? I'm considering taking month of Dec or Jan off. According to Iserson's book, he said that it was advantageous to interview as late as possible. Do people think it is necessary to take whole month off?

 

[Winged Scapula]

When do most people take time off to do interviews? I'm considering taking month of Dec or Jan off. According to Iserson's book, he said that it was advantageous to interview as late as possible. Do people think it is necessary to take whole month off?

Bear in mind that most programs will not interview during the last two weeks of December.

Bear in mind that many programs interview in earnest during November; so if you were taking a month off, probably mid Nov to mid December would be the highest yield. But there will be some outside of that period.

 

[barcalounger]

For the most competitive fields, connections are key and LOR's are more important. For the tip-top programs in any field, the same is true.

I found that in my neurosurgery application, my LOR's were key. I was asked about them in every single interview, and every interviewer seemed to know each letter writer. "So, you were on so-and-so's service. How did you feel about it? What did you do/see?" Some interviews were essentially discussions of my experiences on various subinternships, with heavy emphasis on the faculty involved.

My personal feeling is that LOR's are mostly useless.

I was told by my advisor that my letters were among them most important parts of my application. So this must be very specialty-dependent.

How late can a letter get in before it is considered "late?" I've got two sub-Is scheduled back to back in mid august and mid-september due to scheduling issues that are probably required to get appropriate letters for my specialty of choice (The one in August is definitely a must). The specialty is probably moderately competitive.

Get the mid-August letter as soon as you can - I recommend scheduling a meeting with the chairman on the last day (or as close to the last day) of your sub-i. Submit your CV in advance, through his secretary, when you schedule the meeting. Then explain that you would love a letter from him/her and that you will be trying to get your application submitted by the first week of September. If you did a good job and he/she is on your side, that letter should be forthcoming.

For later sub-i's you can just list the letter and have it uploaded later, or even bring the letter to the interview. I completed a sub-i in October (!) and since I was early match, I was already interviewing in October. I was specifically told during these interviews that if I did not submit a letter from that sub-i in a timely fashion, I would not be ranked because not having a letter from a sub-i was a giant red flag. Once that letter was sent to my dean, I had copy sealed by my dean's office, and hand-carried a copy to each subsequent interview. That seemed to be the expected protocol.

EDIT: I just realized with NRMP, there is no reason to hand-carry anything, because it can all be uploaded/downloaded. With SF Match that was not the case. So my advice is to submit and then just explain on interviews that your sub-i letters are being written and will be uploaded pronto.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I was told by my advisor that my letters were among them most important parts of my application. So this must be very specialty-dependent.

Agreed. In IM, where the field is huge and the chance of my knowing anyone you worked with is slim, it doesn't matter much. In NS, ENT, Plastics, Derm, Rads, etc, they mean much more -- the field is smaller, everyone in academics knows everyone else. Letters thus mean more.

 

[DrDre311]

Agreed. In IM, where the field is huge and the chance of my knowing anyone you worked with is slim, it doesn't matter much. In NS, ENT, Plastics, Derm, Rads, etc, they mean much more -- the field is smaller, everyone in academics knows everyone else. Letters thus mean more.

This can't be over-emphasized for surgery subs. My letters were a focal point of many interviews, and as previous posters have stated, I got a lot of questions like, "How was it working with Dr. [Famous Plastic Surgeon]? How was that different than operating with Dr. [Infamous Plastic Surgeon]?"

Academic surgery is a pretty small field and most PD's want LOR's from people they know/like personally. Moravian posted a study in PRS journal that basically stated that for integrated plastics the 2 most important characteristics of an applicant were LOR's and AOA membership--ahead of USMLE scores, class rank, etc.

As a side note, I did an away in October and got a letter from Dr. [Famous Plastic Surgeon]. It was uploaded October 31, the day before MSPE's were released. I don't think my application suffered any adverse effects because of the lateness of this letter.

 

[KatieJune]

along the same lines, if my application is complete except for transcript I assume programs will wait to receive the transcript...right?

My school sends out transcripts for all students as a batch on Oct. 1st... is that how most schools do it?

 

[Winged Scapula]

along the same lines, if my application is complete except for transcript I assume programs will wait to receive the transcript...right?

Perhaps. Depends on the rest of your application. If you have stellar USMLE Step 1 scores and letters, programs *might* invite you for an interview without your transcript, assuming that your grades would match up to the rest of your application, although I would venture that most would probably wait.

My school sends out transcripts for all students as a batch on Oct. 1st... is that how most schools do it?

I don't think anyone would know...some schools send them out as batches, others when requested (since some students enroll earlier).

 

[redruby]

Agreed. In IM, where the field is huge and the chance of my knowing anyone you worked with is slim, it doesn't matter much. In NS, ENT, Plastics, Derm, Rads, etc, they mean much more -- the field is smaller, everyone in academics knows everyone else. Letters thus mean more.

I guess this makes sense if you're going into a specialty that wants all letters from physicians within that specialty. I've been hearing that Rads likes one letter from Surgery, one from Med, and no more than one from Rads. Are these Rads chairs and PDs really going to know my surg and IM letter writers?