Low GPA (Engineering) to med school

[Tulip2020]

I'm an engineer. I never liked EE classes, hence the low GPA due to EE courses. I tried my luck at software engineering after graduating and have been doing great. I'm working for one of the top tech companies in the bay area as a software engineer.

Electrical Engineering cGPA - 2.68, graduated 10 years ago.
None of my classes go toward pre-reqs for med school. I have taken 1 bio course at the state school here and got an A, but that's just one course out of the many pre reqs. I plan to join a formal post bacc program.

However it's been my wish to try for medicine. I have called several med schools in CA to get their input on what my chances are if I go with post bacc program and if I do well. Sadly, their response has been to forget about it given my GPA.
I feel very discouraged after talking to med schools in CA. I'm prepared for a failure, however, don't want to walk down a road where there is no hope to begin with. I'm willing to change my state of residency.

Even with post bacc I might be able to bump up my cGPA to 3.1 or so. That's low! Would an SMP work? I was told to forget about it by the UC med schools.
Are there any success stories of people like myself, who actually got into MD program or is DO my only (and also far fetched) option?

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[BluMist]

If you are willing to make the sacrifice, MD is still a possibility, but many things have to go right for that to happen.

1. Move to Texas
2. Invoke Fresh Start, so essentially erase all coursework >10 years (https://www.tmdsas.com/medical/texasAcFrshStrt.html)
3. Get at least 90 credit hours under your belt including all prerequisites, get highest GPA possible
4. Check all the other pre-med boxes (letters of recommendation, volunteer, shadow)

It'll mean moving to another state, possibly having to support yourself while going to school full/part-time, sacrificing your current career, and most likely won't be back to CA for a while.

DO is probably an easier/faster route. Though with grade replacement, it might mean you have to retake many of your EE courses.

 

[DrMidlife]

1.5 Establish Texas residency (read the fine print: does it still take 2 years? does being a student still not count?)
...
5. Apply only to Texas med schools
- - - - -
search SDN on "low GPA" and take advantage of the massive body of work by those who have made it from sub 3.0

 

[HopefulSlav]

You all would suggest 90 hours of undergrad to 32 hours of an SMP? Because of the difficulty?

 

[dataDyne2]

I won't post it again, but I was in a similar boat (if not much, much worse). Low GPA Engineering, worked as an engineer, etc. etc., decided it wasn't right and took the plunge. Work yourself to the bone and all things are possible, but keep an open mind to DO schools. And like the all-knowing DrMidlife said, read this site and all it's glorious information, there is a wealth of knowledge here.

 

[DrMidlife]

From a 2.68, or more generally a sub-3.0, there is an absence of recognizable evidence that the applicant will survive med school.

One year of additional work, such as in an SMP, does not undo, nor fix, ~4 years of poor performance.

Grad work does not affect undergrad GPA, which regardless of grad performance and/or SMP performance is still the topline number on a med school app.

A killer MCAT against an unredeemed sub-3.0 just says to the app reviewer that the student has a problem with endurance and consistency. Makes no different how smart you are.

Med schools get a pile of 5000-15,000 apps, maybe interview 500, maybe seat 150. There is exactly no motivation to see the unique special snowflake behind a sub-3.0 when there are vast hordes of well qualified applicants. Respect your competition. Your impressive resume will be flushed down the toilet by a momma's boy with a 3.7 and a 520.

Generally a 3-4 year very strong mostly science undergrad academic performance, such as the cookie cutter bio degree with a 3.6+, is accepted evidence that an applicant is qualified to survive med school.

Until that multi-year very strong mostly science academic performance is in the bag, the student should not feel any confidence that med school will be anything other than a miserable extended death-by-exams followed by death-by-debt. Convince yourself first that you can handle it. Be skeptical. Actually, be terrified.

For input on how to redeem a crap undergrad GPA, READ SDN.

BY WHICH I MEAN READ SDN.

YOU ARE NOT DONE YET. KEEP READING. THERE ARE NO ADULTS TO SUPERVISE GPA REDEMPTION. IT'S UP TO YOU IF YOU WANT THIS. YOUR COMPETITION ARE NOT ON FACEBOOK OR REDDIT THEY ARE DEVOURING THE LAST 10 YEARS OF LOW GPA POSTS.

 

[popopopop]

Just in case you decide to move to Texas, Louisiana also has something similar.
https://www.medschool.lsuhsc.edu/admissions/Requirements.aspx

"The 32-Hour Policy was a policy adopted by the LSU-New Orleans Admissions Committee many years ago. This policy allows for an applicant to obtain 32 or more post-baccalaureate hours of coursework in biology, chemistry, physics or mathematics. The admissions committee would then consider the GPA for those 32 or more hours to be that applicant’s GPA for the medical school application process. This policy allows for those applicants to distance themselves from a weaker undergraduate GPA which may otherwise hinder them from gaining acceptance into our medical school."

 

[DrMidlife]

Michigan has something like Louisiana as well. READ THE FINE PRINT with respect to what you have to do to establish domicile and with respect to the limitations of the intervention and the applicant pool at the med schools that accept these abbreviated redemptions.

 

[Tulip2020]

Thanks a lot for your response. TX is tough to establish residency. I'd have to find a full-time job, work there full-time for two years in order to establish residency :'(
I'll look at other states in the mid-west and figure out what's my best option. Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[DrMidlife]

You can take classes while you're establishing domicile. You just have to have a better claim on residency than being a student.

It took you 4 years to get into this situation. Might take that long or longer to get to med school from here.

 

[DrMikeP]

I'm an engineer. I never liked EE classes, hence the low GPA due to EE courses. I tried my luck at software engineering after graduating and have been doing great. I'm working for one of the top tech companies in the bay area as a software engineer.

Electrical Engineering cGPA - 2.68, graduated 10 years ago.
None of my classes go toward pre-reqs for med school. I have taken 1 bio course at the state school here and got an A, but that's just one course out of the many pre reqs. I plan to join a formal post bacc program.

However it's been my wish to try for medicine. I have called several med schools in CA to get their input on what my chances are if I go with post bacc program and if I do well. Sadly, their response has been to forget about it given my GPA.
I feel very discouraged after talking to med schools in CA. I'm prepared for a failure, however, don't want to walk down a road where there is no hope to begin with. I'm willing to change my state of residency.

Even with post bacc I might be able to bump up my cGPA to 3.1 or so. That's low! Would an SMP work? I was told to forget about it by the UC med schools.
Are there any success stories of people like myself, who actually got into MD program or is DO my only (and also far fetched) option?

Former engineer here among other things. CA is one of the hardest to get into med school states. DO's have grade replacement so take advantage of that! Going MD will likely be almost impossible in any state but maybe TX.

Take/retake all med pre-reqs and any sci classes (I'm sure as an eng you had chem 1 & 2 and phy 1&2??) you can that are C, D, or F, make A's in a diy prog (at a 4 yr university or cc), bring your c/sgpa to 3.25+ hopefully all of the req science classes with A's will do that(are you positive they won't????), score well on MCAT 505+, shadow drs, get good LORs.

An SMP might help but it's a tougher road to go down unless you have no other choice. If too many eng classes would still bring you down then Texas might be your best shot.

Best of Luck!

 

[Goro]

There are a number of MD schools and ALL DO that reward reinvention.

So, do well in a post-bac or SMP, and on MCAT. I know of an SDNer who got into UCSF this way. Yes, that UCSF.

But you're more likely have to leave CA...unless you aim for Touro-CA or Western.

I'm an engineer. I never liked EE classes, hence the low GPA due to EE courses. I tried my luck at software engineering after graduating and have been doing great. I'm working for one of the top tech companies in the bay area as a software engineer.

Electrical Engineering cGPA - 2.68, graduated 10 years ago.
None of my classes go toward pre-reqs for med school. I have taken 1 bio course at the state school here and got an A, but that's just one course out of the many pre reqs. I plan to join a formal post bacc program.

However it's been my wish to try for medicine. I have called several med schools in CA to get their input on what my chances are if I go with post bacc program and if I do well. Sadly, their response has been to forget about it given my GPA.
I feel very discouraged after talking to med schools in CA. I'm prepared for a failure, however, don't want to walk down a road where there is no hope to begin with. I'm willing to change my state of residency.

Even with post bacc I might be able to bump up my cGPA to 3.1 or so. That's low! Would an SMP work? I was told to forget about it by the UC med schools.
Are there any success stories of people like myself, who actually got into MD program or is DO my only (and also far fetched) option?

 

[Tulip2020]

Former engineer here among other things. CA is one of the hardest to get into med school states. DO's have grade replacement so take advantage of that! Going MD will likely be almost impossible in any state but maybe TX.

Take/retake all med pre-reqs and any sci classes (I'm sure as an eng you had chem 1 & 2 and phy 1&2??) you can that are C, D, or F, make A's in a diy prog (at a 4 yr university or cc), bring your c/sgpa to 3.25+ hopefully all of the req science classes with A's will do that(are you positive they won't????), score well on MCAT 505+, shadow drs, get good LORs.

An SMP might help but it's a tougher road to go down unless you have no other choice. If too many eng classes would still bring you down then Texas might be your best shot.

Best of Luck!

I took Chem1, physics 1&2 overseas. That doesn't count I'm told since it wasn't taken at a US institution. I have A's on those. It's the EE classes that brought down my GPA. I did pretty well in the first two years, 3.6 cGPA.

Thanks, I'll look into TX if that's my only option.

 

[DrMikeP]

I took Chem1, physics 1&2 overseas. That doesn't count I'm told since it wasn't taken at a US institution. I have A's on those. It's the EE classes that brought down my GPA. I did pretty well in the first two years, 3.6 cGPA.

Thanks, I'll look into TX if that's my only option.

Yes they don't likely count. It's potentially not the only way.. What is your GPA on the med science reqs taken in the US? What ones do you have left? Where did u get your eng degree?

You might be one of those who just may benefit from an SMP.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[Tulip2020]

Yes they don't likely count. It's potentially not the only way.. What is your GPA on the med science reqs taken in the US? What ones do you have left? Where did u get your eng degree?

You might be one of those who just may benefit from an SMP.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

I have only taken the first biology class with lab and got an A. I have to take pretty much all the remaining pre-reqs at this point .
I got my EE degree from a US college.

I called UCSD and the administrator there told me they couldn't care less if I took my pre-reqs at a community college but it's the SMP that they look at (take courses with first year med school students) to prove that I could manage the higher-level classes and do well. I'm personally not in favor of taking these courses at a community college. I'm looking at formal post bacc programs so I could focus on studying and not have to manage 12 hour job schedule and end up not doing well.

SMP from what I understand is for students with a biology degree trying to bump up their grade. If I go for a second undergrad and took 400 level biology courses (and do well) would that be enough? SMP is another 20 grand+ (if I'm instate) on top of post bacc.

 

[DrMidlife]

Hey how's that obsessive reading of SDN going? Isn't it great how much free info is here that can't be found anywhere else? Unbelievable treasure trove of info from sub-3.0's who made it into med school after a ton of work and took the time to share their experiences? Yeah it's pretty amazing how it makes you forget to eat or sleep because you finally found the resource that can get you where you want to be.

Oh. Oh well.

Hey did you know 60% of USMD applicants get rejected every year? You should probably know that.

cGPA - 2.68

Just so we're clear, this is the first data point to share if you want to get good help, and 95% of the people involved in med ed will have absolutely no clue what to tell you.

I have called several med schools in CA to get their input on what my chances are if I go with post bacc program and if I do well. Sadly, their response has been to forget about it given my GPA.

See? Not getting good help.

I have only taken the first biology class with lab and got an A.

That's a great start. First step on a very very long journey.

I called UCSD

Because....? Why would you pick a ridiculously competitive med school for help? Get an MSAR and wrap your brain around the admissions standards at various schools, then compare to the DO schools on aacom.org.

and the administrator there

if you got past telling this person that you have a 2.68 and the person kept talking to you about community college and SMPs then that's another person with no clue what to tell you. Every single med school all the way up to Harvard is going to tell you "sure! apply here! we'd love to see your app!" because there's no downside to saying this. UCSD rejects over 90% of applicants every year. What's one more?

told me they couldn't care less if I took my pre-reqs at a community college but it's the SMP that they look at (take courses with first year med schools students) to prove that I could manage the higher-level classes and do well.

Community college: reasonable for premeds in 2 cases: as pre-university work, or for a warmup class or two on a comeback. So you can take a class or two to warm up for the rigorous university study you need to not only demonstrate that you're med-school-worthy, but that your prior performance is less of a big fat red flag poking people in the eye than it seems.
SMP: special masters program, discussed at length in the SDN postbac forum. You are in no position to start an SMP.

I'm personally not in favor of taking these courses at a community college.

Good, you shouldn't be interested in doing community college coursework, because it won't help you get where you want to be.

I'm looking at formal post bacc programs so I could focus on studying and not have to manage 12 hour job schedule and end up not doing well.

"Formal postbac program" on SDN typically means a 1 year premed prereqs program. That's not what you need.
What you need is full time enrollment, or as close to that as you can get. Look at getting an on-campus job, look at part time job opportunities, look and look and look.

It's going to take a long time to get a plan in place that meets all your various needs, so don't knee jerk into something that seems fine. You're an engineer? So you know how to attack hard problems. Do thorough analysis and iterate on design/review with respect for risk, before you start production.

SMP from what I understand is for students with a biology degree trying to bump up their grade.

Incorrect. Bio is just the most common premed degree. SMPs are for people who are completely ready to apply to med school, with a complete and compelling med school app, with the sole missing asset of a competitive GPA. Frequently SMP students already applied to med school and got interviews and/or waitlists before the SMP. An SMP is not an eraser and even after you complete one successfully you still are initially evaluated on cumulative undergrad GPA and MCAT at med schools. Even the med school that hosts the SMP.

If I go for a second undergrad and took 400 level biology courses (and do well) would that be enough?

If you do it for 2-3 years full time, and THEN do an SMP, probably. No guarantees. There's a whole lot more med-school-worthy science than bio, btw.

SMP is another 20 grand+ (if I'm instate) on top of post bacc.

Nope, not even.

An SMP is an audition for med school by doing med school. Do or die. You can't do it part time. You can't do it at the same time as undergrad. You can't do it before you kill the MCAT. SMPs typically cost $50k+. There aren't any in California.

There are literally 1000 one year terminal masters programs that are not SMPs. They will happily take your money and do nothing to help you with med school.

Please do a whole lot more reading. You're floundering about with incomplete info that you won't collect by floundering about.

 

[Goro]

Dr ML is 100% spot on here. My school has an SMP and you wouldn't believe how many times the clinicians on the Adcom completely ignore the 3.85 GPA from our masters and point to the student's poor UG performance as a reason to rejection!

Frequently SMP students already applied to med school and got interviews and/or waitlists before the SMP. An SMP is not an eraser and even after you complete one successfully you still are initially evaluated on cumulative undergrad GPA and MCAT at med schools. Even the med school that hosts the SMP.


Agree 1000%! At our program, students who haven't had the SMp are told to take the MCAT prior to matriculation into the SMP, OR after finishing. We've seen too many try to do the SMP and the MCAT and bomb the latter.
An SMP is an audition for med school by doing med school. Do or die. You can't do it part time. You can't do it at the same time as undergrad. You can't do it before you kill the MCAT.

Well, Drexel in Sacramento, Western and Touro-CA come to mind. All 1 year programs and < $50K. Cal State East Bay also has one, I think These programs are a dime a dozen really and they start to gel in my brain. We taken grads from all of these programs and they've done well in our med school...provided that they did well in the SMP!
SMPs typically cost $50k+. There aren't any in California.

 

[atomi]

Community college: reasonable for premeds in 2 cases: as pre-university work, or for a warmup class or two on a comeback.

There is another, more common, appropriate use of community college for pre-reqs. For people who are out of college >2 years, working full time, and already have excellent GPAs (>3.8) but are missing pre-reqs. All of these criteria must be met, and adcoms will have no problem with CC courses. The typical downside to CC courses is that it makes you look lazy and brings into your ability to handle a rigorous courseload. This is completely answered with your excellent ugrad GPA and the fact that you are working full-time while you do the CC classes.

Of course, this does not apply to the OP.