Low SMP GPA, am I screwed?

[deleted436726]

I finished undergrad with a 3.20 cGPA and 3.15 sGPA, then decided to do a 1-year SMP and ended up with a 3.34. Better than undergrad, but not by much. The minimum requirement for a guaranteed interview at the linked med school is a 3.5, so my chances there might already be iffy.

How much of an impact does the mediocre SMP performance hurt me, and how much weight do adcoms put on it anyway? You always hear about the SMP success stories but you never hear about the people who didn't necessarily do so hot.

I'm on my 3rd app cycle now and am also applying DO for the first time. My MCAT is a 32. As far as apps go I submitted early, have been verified, and am really just waiting for LORs to be sent out.

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[Goro]

At our program, a low B avg is an indicator that someone will struggle in our program. You might get interviews but then get wait listed. Start preparing your plan B.

I finished undergrad with a 3.20 cGPA and 3.15 sGPA, then decided to do a 1-year SMP and ended up with a 3.34. Better than undergrad, but not by much. The minimum requirement for a guaranteed interview at the linked med school is a 3.5, so my chances there might already be iffy.

How much of an impact does the mediocre SMP performance hurt me, and how much weight do adcoms put on it anyway? You always hear about the SMP success stories but you never hear about the people who didn't necessarily do so hot.

I'm on my 3rd app cycle now and am also applying DO for the first time. My MCAT is a 32. As far as apps go I submitted early, have been verified, and am really just waiting for LORs to be sent out.

 

[mehc012]

At our program, a low B avg is an indicator that someone will struggle in our program. You might get interviews but then get wait listed. Start preparing your plan B.

A 3.3 isn't a 'low B', though...it's a solid B+, unless you meant "A low avg, such as a B avg"

 

[akinetopsia]

The only thing I would say is if you knew going into the SMP you had to kill it, and you didn't, do you think you'll be successful in medical school when the volume of material is higher? That's one thing admissions will consider, and it's also something you should consider. Did you do absolutely everything in your power to succeed in the SMP, and if not, why not?

The admissions officers I've spoken to have wanted to see 3.6+ in SMP programs for favorable admissions decisions.

 

[TheBigB]

I think the biggest question you need to answer is:
"How can we expect you to academically excel when evidence indicates you'll do otherwise"

 

[43092]

A 3.3 isn't a 'low B', though...it's a solid B+, unless you meant "A low avg, such as a B avg"

Yep, a low B avg is a 2.7 (B-).

 

[Goro]

Let's not quibble...when you're in a SMP, you should be acing it. 80-84 isn't going to cut it, I fear. But sometimes one has to apply with the app you have, warts and all, and see how the app cycle goes.

A 3.3 isn't a 'low B', though...it's a solid B+, unless you meant "A low avg, such as a B avg"

 

[deleted436726]

Yeah, unfortunately I didn't truly appreciate that SMPs are considered "high-risk" until I was already halfway through the semester. Had I known how much of a gamble it would've been, I would have probably not done it and gotten some more work experience instead. I guess there's not much I can do now except keep filling out secondaries and hope for the best...

 

[mehc012]

Let's not quibble...when you're in a SMP, you should be acing it. 80-84 isn't going to cut it, I fear. But sometimes one has to apply with the app you have, warts and all, and see how the app cycle goes.

Sorry! Wasn't quibbling for the sake of nitpicking, I was honestly curious as to which it is. After all, on here everyone always talks about how in med school classes you shouldn't expect to get all As, and some SMPs are taken side-by side. It was an honest question - I didn't know if the GPA standards were different for an SMP.

 

[GypsyHummus]

At our program, a low B avg is an indicator that someone will struggle in our program. You might get interviews but then get wait listed. Start preparing your plan B.

Hey goro,

How likely is it that someone might get off a waitlist in this scenario? Does it help the applicant if it is a masters program at their DO school they are applying to?

Out of curiosity, why is a 3.3 an ok GPA for undergrad while a 3.3 in an SMP can cause worry when the SMP takes all med school classes? Is this why you recommend people use grade replacement instead of an SMP if they want to go the DO route with a low GPA?

 

[zzxxzz]

Out of curiosity, why is a 3.3 an ok GPA for undergrad while a 3.3 in an SMP can cause worry when the SMP takes all med school classes? Is this why you recommend people use grade replacement instead of an SMP if they want to go the DO route with a low GPA?

1) A 3.3 isn't an "ok" GPA for undergrad. Average applicant GPA for DO programs is like 3.5.

2) A SMP is a program designed for you to get good grades. You're expected to get straight A/A-s.

 

[deleted436726]

1) A 3.3 isn't an "ok" GPA for undergrad. Average applicant GPA for DO programs is like 3.5.

2) A SMP is a program designed for you to get good grades. You're expected to get straight A/A-s.

1. By that logic everyone with less than a 3.5 GPA would be screwed for DO. Standard deviation for UG cGPA was 0.3. Mean sGPA was 3.38 with SD 0.43.

2. I wouldn't say that's true across the board. In SMPs that pit their students against the med school curve I'd hardly say its easy or even expected to get straight As. Some programs are more research based vs coursework based, too.

 

[zzxxzz]

1. By that logic everyone with less than a 3.5 GPA would be screwed.

It's possible for people with GPAs below 3.5 to be admitted to MD. It's not common. Just keep in mind the average non-URM MD matriculant has a 3.71 cGPA/3.67 sGPA and the average non-URM DO matriculant has a 3.52 cGPA/3.41 sGPA.

 

[Goro]

Great questions! In our program, we have seen a direct correlation between performance in our SMP and subsequent performance inthe med school. People who had uneven performance, and/or who finished the SMP with a GPA <85%, and especially in the low 80s or lower, struggled in the COM.

The difference is that in an SMP, you're taking a light load of medical school classes. In UG, it's a mix. Oddly, we have found no correlation between UG GPA and med school performance!

For getting off the wait list, it will depend upon how the person did at interview, and what the dean's priorities are.

The take-home here is not to obsess about a specific number. The key thing about SMNPs is that we expect you to shine in them, and show us that poor UG performance was a fluke.

Hey goro,

How likely is it that someone might get off a waitlist in this scenario? Does it help the applicant if it is a masters program at their DO school they are applying to?

Out of curiosity, why is a 3.3 an ok GPA for undergrad while a 3.3 in an SMP can cause worry when the SMP takes all med school classes? Is this why you recommend people use grade replacement instead of an SMP if they want to go the DO route with a low GPA?

 

[RogueUnicorn]

You're more or less toast

 

[Aerus]

1. By that logic everyone with less than a 3.5 GPA would be screwed for DO. Standard deviation for UG cGPA was 0.3. Mean sGPA was 3.38 with SD 0.43.

2. I wouldn't say that's true across the board. In SMPs that pit their students against the med school curve I'd hardly say its easy or even expected to get straight As. Some programs are more research based vs coursework based, too.

The whole point of an SMP isn't to provide med schools with more mediocre students. When someone is able to get a super high GPA in an SMP, that shows that they are those rare stellar students with undergrad GPA's that did not reflect their ability to handle med school coursework at all.

 

[deleted436726]

You're more or less toast

Thanks for the vote of confidence...thank goodness my plan B is already in motion...

 

[GypsyHummus]

Thanks for the vote of confidence...thank goodness my plan B is already in motion...

I wouldn't say u are TOAST, but it does not look super swell.

Apply to as many places as you can and hope for the best, prepare for the worst. What is your plan B?

 

[deleted436726]

I wouldn't say u are TOAST, but it does not look super swell.

Apply to as many places as you can and hope for the best, prepare for the worst. What is your plan B?

Software engineering and a PhD in computer science. In fact that's what I'm planning to do for my gap year.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Software engineering and a PhD in computer science. In fact that's what I'm planning to do for my gap year.

Lol, you will probably make more than any of us.

 

[AspiringERMD]

Lol, you will probably make more than any of us.

Eh, it depends. I left software development to do medicine (for reasons having nothing to do with money). It certainly would be nice to not spend 10 years absolutely broke, but I was too unhappy at my old job. To his his/her own, though.

 

[deleted436726]

Lol. I'm not choosing a career based on the money though. I just can't see myself writing code forever for a paycheck. Plus patients tend to be more interesting than a piece of software. And with an MD/DO degree I'll have huge street credit in the medical software/technology market later on, should I choose to go down that route in the future.

 

[Planes2Doc]

An SMP should only be used as a last resort. Sorry that this is happening to you OP...

At our program, a low B avg is an indicator that someone will struggle in our program. You might get interviews but then get wait listed. Start preparing your plan B.

P=MD and 7O=DO. I was shocked that all of these nearly straight A students in undergrad are suddenly getting C's and are very happy about passing! It's a huge change in mentality. It's interesting that a B-average in an SMP would be frowned upon so much. But as I say in most threads, AVOID AVOID AVOID SMP programs!

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Thanks for the vote of confidence...thank goodness my plan B is already in motion...

Frankly you should be prepare for this plan B to become plan A - the fact of the matter is any benefit of the doubt you could have given yourself re: GPA has been conclusively dispelled to your detriment. Your thread asks if you're screwed - and the answer is truthfully yes. Maybe you have an outside outside shot but that's about it.

P=MD and 7O=DO. I was shocked that all of these nearly straight A students in undergrad are suddenly getting C's and are very happy about passing! It's a huge change in mentality. It's interesting that a B-average in an SMP would be frowned upon so much. But as I say in most threads, AVOID AVOID AVOID SMP programs!

Because you have to show you can turn on the jets when it counts

 

[BestDoctorEver]

@wh2k13 ... You should be ok for most DO... Your SMP GPA is not ideal, but it won't take out of the game... Apply to mid-to-low tier DO and you will be fine... Very slim chances at MD however...

 

[deleted436726]

@wh2k13 ... You should be ok for most DO... Your SMP GPA is not ideal, but it won't take out of the game... Apply to mid-to-low tier DO and you will be fine... Very slim chances at MD however...

Thanks for the assessment. I'm really not hung up on MD vs DO - location is far more important to me. What schools would you consider mid- to low-tier DO?

 

[BestDoctorEver]

@wh2k13

Mid-tier: KCOM, KCUMB, TUNCOM, SOMA, PCOM-GA

Low tier: VCOM, LMU-DCOM, ACOM, LUCOM, WVSOM, WCUCOM,

Schools that like high MCAT: NSUCOM, AZCOM, CCOM

 

[Pattycake25]

Hey, I was perusing old threads and found that a few months ago you mentioned retaking the MCAT? Don't. I understand you're counting on an amazing score that can make up for your GPA issues, but the "forgiveness" only goes so far, ESPECIALLY after a lackluster SMP performance. Your 32 is already above average for the only schools you should even remotely consider at this point, so it doesn't need work. On the other hand, what if you have a bad day and your score drops? You'll only have shot yourself in the foot.