Lowest and Highest Paid Physicians

[MoeDaMan]

Does anybody have the numbers for the lowest and highest paid physicians based on speciality as well as demographics?

thnx

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[slindsay198]

not that the salary should matter, but here's a sight that can give you some estimates for different fields in different locals. Yahoo! Careers

 

[mcwmark]

Type physician salary survey into any search engine and you should get different figures.

Generally the South and Midwest tend to have the highest physician salaries, due to the least penetration of managed care.

Ironically, California, with the second highest cost of living in the country, tend to have the lowest physician salaries.

The highest paid physicians usually include: neurosurgery, cardiothoracic surgery, hand surgery, orthopedics, plastics.

The lowest (always a three way battle for the bottom): psychiatry, pediatrics, and family practice.

 

[EricCSU]

Originally posted by slindsay198:
•not that the salary should matter, but here's a sight that can give you some estimates for different fields in different locals. Yahoo! Careers•

Please don't fall under the false assumption that "all doctors should work because they want to help people and that salary shouldn't matter." Here's a news flash:

Money is important.

People want to know how much they will make after 4 ardous years of medical school and over $100,000 indebtedness. Does it make them lesser people? Nope. Will it make them into less compassionate doctors? Probably not, many other parts of physician training are available for that. It is perfectly natural to want to know what the salary is of your future profession.

I believe there was a thread that deviated into a discussion on this, but I don't even have a clue what it was, or even where to start searching.

Have a great day.

Eric

 

[MoeDaMan]

slindsay198 not that the salary should matter, but here's a sight that can give you some estimates for different fields in different locals. Yahoo! Careers

Gosh, pple are so quick to judge.

1) Thanks so much for the link
2) I merely wanted to use that info, so that when confronted with the question "Are you in this field for the money?" I would then use the stats that I have from this question and compare it to other professions like dentistry and law. Furthermore, to use this comparison to indicate, that other professions make FAR more, so I can't be in it just for the moeny!!!
3) I will be very frank. After going to 12 years for medical education and ending up with 250 thousand+ in loans...I'd better have a position that quickly pays off the loans otherwise the interest will kill me!?
4) I really don't know about your status, but I have payed for every single cent of my tuition, room and board...I really don't plan on paying back loans till the day I die...
5) If money wasn't a factor, then both you and I would have moved to sweden where a physician makes the same amount of money as a teacher granted he/she still has to go through 8 years of schooling!
6) I agree with Eric, anybody who says "money isn't a factor at all" can pack up their bags move to India or Africa and become a missionary like Mother Theresa....

I really do resent when pple our quick to judge as soon as you make any sort of statement with regards to salaries?

Why on earth do you think surgery and dermatology are the most competitive fields to get into.....

hint "show me the money"

 

[bustinbooty]

I completely agree with those who are offended by the judgmental types.
WE have the nobelest profession. We have or are going to sacrifice 12 years of our lives to make the same money as the average NY stock broker who took an easier route to bigger money, while in the mean time racking up loans that will most likely exceed our first mortgages.
What is wrong with being worried about salary figures? Anyone who claims to be unconcerned with their expected of future income cannot be considered financially responsible, nor has any business criticizing the rest of us who realize a simple fact:
We are becoming doctors because of universal compassion for other people (hopefully) but this does not mean that we should ignore the fact that we are also becoming doctors for a monetary purpose to support our families and to put food on the table.
No doctor should be in it primarily because of the money, nor can it be assumed that we are in it for the money when we talk about money. There are much easier professions to get into to make more than we will.

 

[mandark20]

do you know what accounts for the difference in range? For example a neurologist earns 116k-170k. What determines the 116 or 170, that's a pretty large range.

 

[praying4MD]

Originally posted by bustinbooty:
•WE have the nobelest profession. We have or are going to sacrifice 12 years of our lives to make the same money as the average NY stock broker who took an easier route to bigger money, while in the mean time racking up loans that will most likely exceed our first mortgages.•

I agree with most of what you said except this sentence. You are right that there is nothing wrong with worrying about salary after years of hard work and medical education. However, I have to disagree that "we have the noblest profession." This is a matter of opinion. I think social workers do more "noble" work and are severely undercompensated. At least we get prestige and money out of our profession; they don't even get that. In addition, consider all the noble professions out there, and even "non-professions." Single mothers do very noble work-- shaping the future of a child alone and supporting them is noble in my eyes, and far more demanding than being a physician.
I just do not like the idea of doctors thinking that this profession is the equivalent of being Mother Theresa. I realize that is an exxageration of what you said, but I will bring it up for discussion anyway.

 

[rdennisjr]

Warning: Bitch, moan, and stand on my soap box response here. Nothing is intended as a direct attack on anyone, just time for me to vent.

I normally shy away from these types of threads, but I just have to jump in this time.

First, I heartily agree with praying4md - while medicine is a respected profession, I really don't think it is "the nobelest" profession. I see this type of comment a lot - and I understand the thought process - gosh all of these years of school and debt just so I can help some poor s.o.b. Well - you need to consider some other professions. How about the 4 fire fighters just killed in the wild fires earlier this week. Do you want to tell there family that they wern't as noble as you because they didn't go to school for a bunch of years? How about the six soldiers who did in Hawaii during a training flight the same day that Dale E. died racing. Anyone remember the names of those 6? How many physicians put their lives on the line for a minimum wage job? Sorry folks, but I just don't buy this one - however, being a physician is a respectable and responsible calling. I have the utmost of respect for the work you go through to get to your goal, but it is just that - work.

Rant part two. Salery. These threads drive me batty! There is not one physician who gets through med school that is not set for life. Period. Even the lowest paid physician makes more than 95% of the rest of society. Yes, there are individuals out there that make more than any physician will ever hope to - say Michael Jordon. But that is individuals, not career fields. Yes, there are IT folks who make more. But not the vast majority of IT folks. Lawyers are the same way. Most people who graduate with a masters degree here in the midwest have a starting sallary of between 30 and 45 thousand dollars a year. Thus, when you begin your residency, you are making just as much as the majority of Masters degree students. Three years later you are in the 85-350+ range. Not a bad return on three years of additional training. Worried about loans? Do the military thing if you want (even the guard route pays large chunks of student loans). And don't sweat the loan amount folks. Live frugaly if you are concerned. One of my best buds just finished up his ED residency. Private undergrad, public med school, residency. Total debt load under 75k. Salary of over 250k for 14-9's. It works out, okay?

Go into medicince for the desire to help folks out, for the desire to heal, the challange of figuring things out, the wish to be a member of the health care team as its leader. Enjoy your education, enjoy your career. Worry about your bills, live responsible and enjoy the financial rewards that come with your choice of medicine. Life is way more than what you do to earn your paycheck. Enjoy it all.

Okay - rants over.

 

[MoeDaMan]

ok here we go u mention about statistics and pple get philosophical...

Originally posted by praying4MD: I just do not like the idea of doctors thinking that this profession is the equivalent of being Mother Theresa. I realize that is an exxageration of what you said, but I will bring it up for discussion anyway.

How did you infer that from my statement? I said if you think you are a REAL Humanitarian pack up your bags and move to africa and india like mother theresa!!! if anything I was saying physicians are not humanitarians.....most of them anyway I never said we are?!?

Originally posted by rdennisjr
Rant part two. Salery. These threads drive me batty! There is not one physician who gets through med school that is not set for life. Period. Even the lowest paid physician makes more than 95% of the rest of society. Yes, there are individuals out there that make more than any physician will ever hope to - say Michael Jordon. But that is individuals, not career fields. Yes, there are IT folks who make more. But not the vast majority of IT folks. Lawyers are the same way. Most people who graduate with a masters degree here in the midwest have a starting sallary of between 30 and 45 thousand dollars a year. Thus, when you begin your residency, you are making just as much as the majority of Masters degree students. Three years later you are in the 85-350+ range. Not a bad return on three years of additional training. Worried about loans? Do the military thing if you want (even the guard route pays large chunks of student loans). And don't sweat the loan amount folks. Live frugaly if you are concerned. One of my best buds just finished up his ED residency. Private undergrad, public med school, residency. Total debt load under 75k. Salary of over 250k for 14-9's. It works out, okay?

We make 95% more than the other members of society? and does 95% of the society go through 12 years of grueling schooling...dont get me wrong i love medicine, but I dont think studying for 12 years is the "Fun part of medicine"



Do the millitary thing? That doesnt even make sense? what happens if u dont like the millitary, just because it pays for the tuition I have to go into the millitary? I guess with that rationale, then some pple should become strippers because you can pay ur tuition back faster?! huh? and how do the loan numbers work out sir? if you go to a private college 30 grand a year...comes to 120,000 end of 4 years, med school another 35 each year...already totals to 250 K? and I hate to tell you this, NOT ALL DOCTORS MAKE 250 GRAND a year....I have friends who are physicians and they make less than 100,000 a year! on average around 80,000...so please tell me especially if they are married, starting a family, paying back loans and starting a mortgage on how it all works out?!

nobody, said doctors are not paid enough..and we didnt ever whine about not getting paid enough....the original thread was to get a statistic, it then became a judgemental arguement not asking about salaries since it shouldnt matter...bs, and if ur friend got a 250 grand job, good for him, can u please give me his speciality, and which hospital he works for that pay him 250 grand a year? BECAUSE THAT IS NOT A NORM

how much do sport figures get for their line of work? how much schooling do they go to? and dont give me the stuff about talents...it takes just as much talent and skill for a surgeon to operate on a child with a tumor, and there is a life at stake!!! and the highest surgeon gets paid 400 grand a year...compare that to the 100 million contracts sports figures get for the "contribution to society"...yaddi yaddi yadda....

also live frugally? have u lived in california? I lived in MN great state, two good bedroom apartment for around 800 dollars?!!?!? unheard of

I can't find a bachelor room near my school in california under 1200?! one room with no kitchen?...so explain how u can live frugally when the expenses of one state far surpass another?

if you havent gone through the process, u cant make the generalization that loans are no big deal!!! i have 7 friends who graduated from med school, during their residency they are getting paid 30, 40 grand a year...that barely covers their living expenses let alone their loans, their 250+ loans....besides it takes them an average of 5 years after medical school to be able to pay the loans back!?! so dont give me ur friend as a viable statistic...that is NOT THE norm...

after graduating from med school, interns and residents make around 30, 40 k annually, that is in their 10th year of education!!!! argh..that is silly...I get paid more now as a research assistant than I would being an intern!!! and have absolutely zero loans to pay back if i decide to go into the phd program....

and that comment about minimum wage? what kind of statement is that...do u honestly thik all minimum wage pple are risking their lives? i have had jobs as minimum wage...and waiters, desk clerks, or a fast food teller are not exactly risking their lives...that is the price of education...go to school and u will be rewarded afterwards

and that comment about fire figthers risking their lives...yes that is very noble...and I can assure you fire fighthers are not paid minimum wage...they may not get paid as a doctor yes that is true, but they dont go to 12 years of schooling...

Nobody said doctors' lives don't work out in the end. It does, and nobody said there aren't other noble professions...there are.....this arguement has deviated from my original question of salary ranges....

and please don't again mention 95% of the population doesnt make our salary....bunch of boloney....95% of the population doenst go through 12 years of schooling, and 95% of the population doesnt have a life literally on their hands....meaning surgeons...or ER doctors....it is EXTREMELY difficult and strenous to have someone's life in your hands...that amounts a huge amount of stress...

also know this physicians have the highest suicide rates among all professions! if we had it all easy, pple wouldnt be committing suidice now would they (refer to us news and world report)? we are blamed for the failing health care system, expected to fix every medical problem known to man, and then pple complaing how we are 95% better off than the rest of society..BOLONEY

have u heard of malpractice lawsuits? u make a mistake and get sued 20 million crap loads....how many fire fighters, lawyers and stock brokers have been sued to the extent of physicians?! I know the insurance pays for most of the money, but do u honestly think ur profession wont be tarnished?

yadi yadi yadi, doctors have it easy....heck no...that isnt to say other professions have it hard as well....but why compare apples to oranges...fire fighters have an extremely tough job as well, but that is not the same comparison!!!

u shouldnt compare fire fighters, police officers such professions to medicine, because it is not comparable...fire fighrers and police officers also have an extremely stressful workload...but when I made comparisons of salary...it was to lawyers, dentists and silicon valley "elite" not to minimum wage pple.....that doesnt make sense..dont compare those!!!

a periodontist with a less amount of schooling can make a 1 million dollars a year!!! since dentists price fix their own services and can charge anything they wish.....argh what does 95% of the society have to do with being a physician.....sigh....

all in all physicians have it well at the end...no one is complaining about that...however, asking a question about salary should not merit statements like "dont complain so much u have it easy" yah right.....

 

[praying4MD]

My basic points:

1) I am sick of people saying that we have the noblest profession. Nobility has nothing to do with how much schooling one goes through. dennisjr used a good example of firefighters. Not all physicians are noble. Nobility, or even being a good human being, is not a requirement for becoming a doctor. Just take a look at the fierce premeds for proof of that. There are many other noble professions (child counselor, psychologist, social worker, relief workers, human rights lawyer, police officers, etc. etc.) Your profession is only as noble as you choose to make it.

2) My sister is a consultant & she works more hours than a radiologist. She is also constantly on call and travelling without any notice. She makes one-third what the radiologist does. Point: Yes, doctors work hard. So do people in every other profession. We are aptly compensated, they are not. I have no tolerance for doctors' sob stories.

 

[Flea]

Do the military thing if you want (even the guard route pays large chunks of student loans).

Just my 2 cents-- again, DO NOT do the military "thing" for the money -- after 5 years I make what averages out to $25/hour (BEFORE taxes). I may have 1/3 of the debt, but I also have 1/3 of the salary, lifestyle (I've moved 7 times), and education
People in the guard/reserves run the big risk of losing thier practices every time they get 'called up"-- the time away depletes your referral or patient base, what's your staff suppose to do while your gone?

 

[Flea]

Hey! I think I qualify as the lowest paid physician(expect for residents, of course)

 

[star23]

One thing that always appalls me is how so many people equate nobility with the letters after your name (ex. PhD, M.D., etc) or what your salary is. YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!

Nobility also has nothing to do with how much schooling you went to. It has to do with what kind of person you are - and that is something you generally don't learn in school or acquire with an advanced degree or a large salary.

I agree with Praying 4MD: Being an M.D. doesn't automatically make you noble. I know several noble people who have nothing more than a high school education. If you think you are noble because you have M.D. behind your name, Lord help us all!

 

[Mango]

I agree completely praying4MD. The ratio of "Noble" people to Douchebags in medicine, is about the same as it is everywhere else. Actually I'd venture to say that in some specialties, the douchebags have the lead!

 

[kutastha]

Well, this is fantastic news. After I finish med school and residency, I'll have 16 years of schooling! By Moe's logic, I deserve to be very well-off!

Andrew

 

[Amy B]

Hey thanks for the web site about salaries. It was great and from what we can tell the salaries listed are pretty close to being acurate.

 

[kreno]

Hey Flea, can you give me your email? I'd like to ask you some stuff 'bout your military thing... I've been thinking about it - and I'd like your perspective. You're the first person i've met who seems negative towards it.

Thanks

leon
my email is [email protected]

 

[MoeDaMan]

do orthopedic surgeons get sued alot?

anybody have any info to divulge about orthopedic surgery? how comepetitive it is, how can you enter that field...that stuff...

 

[Winged Scapula]

Originally posted by MoeDaMan:
•do orthopedic surgeons get sued alot?

anybody have any info to divulge about orthopedic surgery? how comepetitive it is, how can you enter that field...that stuff... •

Yes. Especially Spinal surgeons. I believe the most sued are OB-Gyns, Ortho and Neurosurgeons.

Ortho is pretty darn competitive and the standard "must haves" apply: good grades, USMLE scores, letters, research etc. There is no blueprint which will guarantee you a position. DO your best in school, make contacts early on and score well on those licensing exams.

 

[stdent9972]

Originally posted by MoeDaMan:
•
[We make 95% more than the other members of society? and does 95% of the society go through 12 years of grueling schooling...dont get me wrong i love medicine, but I dont think studying for 12 years is the "Fun part of medicine"



Do the millitary thing? That doesnt even make sense? what happens if u dont like the millitary, just because it pays for the tuition I have to go into the millitary? I guess with that rationale, then some pple should become strippers because you can pay ur tuition back faster?! huh? and how do the loan numbers work out sir? if you go to a private college 30 grand a year...comes to 120,000 end of 4 years, med school another 35 each year...already totals to 250 K? and I hate to tell you this, NOT ALL DOCTORS MAKE 250 GRAND a year....I have friends who are physicians and they make less than 100,000 a year! on average around 80,000...so please tell me especially if they are married, starting a family, paying back loans and starting a mortgage on how it all works out?!

nobody, said doctors are not paid enough..and we didnt ever whine about not getting paid enough....the original thread was to get a statistic, it then became a judgemental arguement not asking about salaries since it shouldnt matter...bs, and if ur friend got a 250 grand job, good for him, can u please give me his speciality, and which hospital he works for that pay him 250 grand a year? BECAUSE THAT IS NOT A NORM

how much do sport figures get for their line of work? how much schooling do they go to? and dont give me the stuff about talents...it takes just as much talent and skill for a surgeon to operate on a child with a tumor, and there is a life at stake!!! and the highest surgeon gets paid 400 grand a year...compare that to the 100 million contracts sports figures get for the "contribution to society"...yaddi yaddi yadda....

also live frugally? have u lived in california? I lived in MN great state, two good bedroom apartment for around 800 dollars?!!?!? unheard of

I can't find a bachelor room near my school in california under 1200?! one room with no kitchen?...so explain how u can live frugally when the expenses of one state far surpass another?

if you havent gone through the process, u cant make the generalization that loans are no big deal!!! i have 7 friends who graduated from med school, during their residency they are getting paid 30, 40 grand a year...that barely covers their living expenses let alone their loans, their 250+ loans....besides it takes them an average of 5 years after medical school to be able to pay the loans back!?! so dont give me ur friend as a viable statistic...that is NOT THE norm...

after graduating from med school, interns and residents make around 30, 40 k annually, that is in their 10th year of education!!!! argh..that is silly...I get paid more now as a research assistant than I would being an intern!!! and have absolutely zero loans to pay back if i decide to go into the phd program....

and that comment about minimum wage? what kind of statement is that...do u honestly thik all minimum wage pple are risking their lives? i have had jobs as minimum wage...and waiters, desk clerks, or a fast food teller are not exactly risking their lives...that is the price of education...go to school and u will be rewarded afterwards

and that comment about fire figthers risking their lives...yes that is very noble...and I can assure you fire fighthers are not paid minimum wage...they may not get paid as a doctor yes that is true, but they dont go to 12 years of schooling...

Nobody said doctors' lives don't work out in the end. It does, and nobody said there aren't other noble professions...there are.....this arguement has deviated from my original question of salary ranges....

and please don't again mention 95% of the population doesnt make our salary....bunch of boloney....95% of the population doenst go through 12 years of schooling, and 95% of the population doesnt have a life literally on their hands....meaning surgeons...or ER doctors....it is EXTREMELY difficult and strenous to have someone's life in your hands...that amounts a huge amount of stress...

also know this physicians have the highest suicide rates among all professions! if we had it all easy, pple wouldnt be committing suidice now would they (refer to us news and world report)? we are blamed for the failing health care system, expected to fix every medical problem known to man, and then pple complaing how we are 95% better off than the rest of society..BOLONEY

have u heard of malpractice lawsuits? u make a mistake and get sued 20 million crap loads....how many fire fighters, lawyers and stock brokers have been sued to the extent of physicians?! I know the insurance pays for most of the money, but do u honestly think ur profession wont be tarnished?

yadi yadi yadi, doctors have it easy....heck no...that isnt to say other professions have it hard as well....but why compare apples to oranges...fire fighters have an extremely tough job as well, but that is not the same comparison!!!

u shouldnt compare fire fighters, police officers such professions to medicine, because it is not comparable...fire fighrers and police officers also have an extremely stressful workload...but when I made comparisons of salary...it was to lawyers, dentists and silicon valley "elite" not to minimum wage pple.....that doesnt make sense..dont compare those!!!

a periodontist with a less amount of schooling can make a 1 million dollars a year!!! since dentists price fix their own services and can charge anything they wish.....argh what does 95% of the society have to do with being a physician.....sigh....

all in all physicians have it well at the end...no one is complaining about that...however, asking a question about salary should not merit statements like "dont complain so much u have it easy" yah right.....•

Woe there, buddy. Physicians do happen to do quite well. The top surgeons make a lot more than 400K, try more like $1-2 million, for the most sucessful. The average physician still makes over 160K per year, and has extremely high job security. Try telling that to a VP of marketing who was just laid off at Lucent, who toils off unemployment for 6-8 months and takes a job at a 40% pay reduction. Physicians make $150K-500K. That's still as much as most people in this world make. Sure entrepreneurs, Fortune 500 CEO's, a few law partners in NYC and a few Wall Streeters will top that. But even law partners in cities like DC or SF make 350K to 600K. People in other fields have their own issues too. Do your homework before you bitch next time.

 

[im4real]

Hi there!

I posted this at another thread, but I was so impressed with this site that I wanted to post it here too. It tells you what a physician of different specialties and different parts of the country make. So, I will pass along the information just in case you haven't seen it yet. I posted it in the residents forum.

Here's the link:
http://www.salaries.com

I hope this helps!

Take care,
Christy

 

[AvaG]

Wow! After the harsh and tear jerking debate someone provides statistics! Yay! I never thought money would matter too much as long as I get to be a doctor, after all, I am used to be being "comfortably American poor" , which is not poor in any standards, but I'm used to living off of 20 grand a year.
I think it is important for future doctors to take these things into account. I was really interested to hear the Dr.s in the Midwest and south tend to make more. How much can we expect these figures to change in the next ten years with the health care system the way it is? I would like to see some projected statistics on this if anyone has them.
Does anyone know the current stats on Docs in Hawaii?

Interesting debate, thanks for the actual link.

 

[Mr hawkings]

Wow! After the harsh and tear jerking debate someone provides statistics! Yay! I never thought money would matter too much as long as I get to be a doctor, after all, I am used to be being "comfortably American poor" , which is not poor in any standards, but I'm used to living off of 20 grand a year.
I think it is important for future doctors to take these things into account. I was really interested to hear the Dr.s in the Midwest and south tend to make more. How much can we expect these figures to change in the next ten years with the health care system the way it is? I would like to see some projected statistics on this if anyone has them.
Does anyone know the current stats on Docs in Hawaii?

Interesting debate, thanks for the actual link.

You do realize that post is 7 years old, right?

 

[maldini99]

My basic points:

2) My sister is a consultant & she works more hours than a radiologist. She is also constantly on call and travelling without any notice. She makes one-third what the radiologist does. Point: Yes, doctors work hard. So do people in every other profession. We are aptly compensated, they are not. I have no tolerance for doctors' sob stories.

If your sister makes a mistake at her job, does anyone die? Does she hold anybodies life (literally, like a surgeon/anesthesiologist does) in her hands?

Consider a social worker, or any other profession you can get in with a bachelor's degree. Most people in jobs like that will have few years to get completely familiarized with the system, and then it will all depend on how empathic you are, and how much you want to help people (which is very important in medicine, too). So more or less >70% people can do it, you just need to have the drive for it, and you will get compensated moderately (~40-70K)

Do you think an MD can just pick up the ropes on the job, after a bachelor's degree? The curriculum of a medical student from the freshman year to the 4th year of residency is so hard, physically and mentally, that majority of people just could not do it.

I think doctors earn every cent they make. I also think that it is embarrassing that the Primary MD's get paid so low. The amount of information doctor's need to master is enormous, and it is hard complicated stuff too, not raw memorization.

finally, what makes a doctor/pharmacist profession different then others is the responsibilities they carry. If a pharmacist wrongly doses a patient, he can die. If an anesthesiologist does not know his stuff, his patient will never wake up. If a somebody is diagnosed with leukemia or some other disease, guess who they will turn to...?

 

[DrJosephKim]

Websites that post stats on salaries often give very inflated figures. Studies have demonstrated that usually those who are on the higher end of the spectrum fill out and submit their salary details.

A more realistic view can be obtained by looking a a physician community/forum such as Sermo. There, you can get some real-life stories about salary experiences.

Bottom line: salary varies tremendously based on geography and type of practice.

 

[inkare]

I wonder if the high earning physicians 7 years ago are still the high earning physicians today ... What shall be the trend for the future ?

 

[Turtle01]

show me the money

 

[bcat85]

Type physician salary survey into any search engine and you should get different figures.

Generally the South and Midwest tend to have the highest physician salaries, due to the least penetration of managed care.

Ironically, California, with the second highest cost of living in the country, tend to have the lowest physician salaries.

The highest paid physicians usually include: neurosurgery, cardiothoracic surgery, hand surgery, orthopedics, plastics.

The lowest (always a three way battle for the bottom): psychiatry, pediatrics, and family practice.

General peds only, right?

 

[thechad]

People keep on posting about what they think nobility is w/o actually knowing what it is, so:

no·ble

Audio Help /ˈnoʊ

bəl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[noh-buh

l] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation adjective, -bler, -blest, noun –adjective
1.distinguished by rank or title.
2.pertaining to persons so distinguished.
3.of, belonging to, or constituting a hereditary class that has special social or political status in a country or state; of or pertaining to the aristocracy.
4.of an exalted moral or mental character or excellence; lofty: a noble thought.
5.admirable in dignity of conception, manner of expression, execution, or composition: a noble poem.
6.very impressive or imposing in appearance; stately; magnificent: a noble monument.
7.of an admirably high quality; notably superior; excellent.




Are doctors not distinguished (hence the whole Dr. Whatever Name), are they not smarter than the average individual (or class), et cetera. Don't throw words around without knowing the meaning. Doctors definately have a noble profession, more so than social workers and so on and so forth.

 

[coldweatherblue]

People keep on posting about what they think nobility is w/o actually knowing what it is, so:

Ironically, while the adjective noble can be used to describe things which exhibit perceived characteristics of the land-owning class such as stately bearing, dignity, and distinction, the noun nobility is used almost exclusively to refer to the land-owning class itself.

Doctors are not nobility. They are professionals and very much middle-class.

People like professionals a lot better when they're perceived as humble and self-sacrificing. The more society perceives physicians as distinguished, affluent, and privileged, the more likely they will be to support legislation that: limits the ability for physicians to practice through legislation and bureaucracy, reduces physician compensation, and defines standard of care.

 

[ZonaRidicularis]

z

 

[SnowTown]

do you know what accounts for the difference in range? For example a neurologist earns 116k-170k. What determines the 116 or 170, that's a pretty large range.

not really... considering that a 100 room castle in alaska cost $100k and a 100 sq ft shack in san francisco cost $100 million...

 

[MSKalltheway]

The really wealthy doctors are the ones who also have enough business sense to invest their money into things that will generate more cash. Banks practically throw their money at doctors b/c they know their credit is good and they will be able to pack back the loans.

OMG someone that actually realizes the way to make money with a career in medicine is not Derm or Spine surg. Madd props should go your way.

 

[ZonaRidicularis]

z

 

[oldbearprofessor]

General peds only, right?

No, some pedi specialties are primarily academic only or virtually academic only and have salaries not much higher if at all than general pedi. Others have salaries much higher than general pedi. In general, those with procedures have better salaries.

 

[ninjapenguin]

You do realize that post is 7 years old, right?

Must be a record.

 

[PeepshowJohnny]

Must be a record.

Nah, I bumped a thread the other day "Inquiry into Vitale Humours: How doth black bile imbalance manifest?" from the 1300's.

 

[ZonaRidicularis]

z

 

[coralfangs]

now look who's cocky
There are many noble professions and I do not believe that medicine is as noble as people think. Too many selfish doctors in the field.
Fireman on the other hand is a noble profession, they risk their lives to save live

I completely agree with those who are offended by the judgmental types.
WE have the nobelest profession. We have or are going to sacrifice 12 years of our lives to make the same money as the average NY stock broker who took an easier route to bigger money, while in the mean time racking up loans that will most likely exceed our first mortgages.
What is wrong with being worried about salary figures? Anyone who claims to be unconcerned with their expected of future income cannot be considered financially responsible, nor has any business criticizing the rest of us who realize a simple fact:
We are becoming doctors because of universal compassion for other people (hopefully) but this does not mean that we should ignore the fact that we are also becoming doctors for a monetary purpose to support our families and to put food on the table.
No doctor should be in it primarily because of the money, nor can it be assumed that we are in it for the money when we talk about money. There are much easier professions to get into to make more than we will.

 

[jumpingjax]

Warning: Bitch, moan, and stand on my soap box response here. Nothing is intended as a direct attack on anyone, just time for me to vent.

I normally shy away from these types of threads, but I just have to jump in this time.

First, I heartily agree with praying4md - while medicine is a respected profession, I really don't think it is "the nobelest" profession. I see this type of comment a lot - and I understand the thought process - gosh all of these years of school and debt just so I can help some poor s.o.b. Well - you need to consider some other professions. How about the 4 fire fighters just killed in the wild fires earlier this week. Do you want to tell there family that they wern't as noble as you because they didn't go to school for a bunch of years? How about the six soldiers who did in Hawaii during a training flight the same day that Dale E. died racing. Anyone remember the names of those 6? How many physicians put their lives on the line for a minimum wage job? Sorry folks, but I just don't buy this one - however, being a physician is a respectable and responsible calling. I have the utmost of respect for the work you go through to get to your goal, but it is just that - work.

Rant part two. Salery. These threads drive me batty! There is not one physician who gets through med school that is not set for life. Period. Even the lowest paid physician makes more than 95% of the rest of society. Yes, there are individuals out there that make more than any physician will ever hope to - say Michael Jordon. But that is individuals, not career fields. Yes, there are IT folks who make more. But not the vast majority of IT folks. Lawyers are the same way. Most people who graduate with a masters degree here in the midwest have a starting sallary of between 30 and 45 thousand dollars a year. Thus, when you begin your residency, you are making just as much as the majority of Masters degree students. Three years later you are in the 85-350+ range. Not a bad return on three years of additional training. Worried about loans? Do the military thing if you want (even the guard route pays large chunks of student loans). And don't sweat the loan amount folks. Live frugaly if you are concerned. One of my best buds just finished up his ED residency. Private undergrad, public med school, residency. Total debt load under 75k. Salary of over 250k for 14-9's. It works out, okay?

Go into medicince for the desire to help folks out, for the desire to heal, the challange of figuring things out, the wish to be a member of the health care team as its leader. Enjoy your education, enjoy your career. Worry about your bills, live responsible and enjoy the financial rewards that come with your choice of medicine. Life is way more than what you do to earn your paycheck. Enjoy it all.

Okay - rants over.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous posts in history. And wow, batty? WTF, are you in 5th grade.

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

This has to be one of the most ridiculous posts in history. And wow, batty? WTF, are you in 5th grade.

What's ridiculous is everyone jumping into this long dead debate. What you quoted was typed over 7 years ago, and the guy apparently hasn't posted on SDN at all in going on 3. If he was in 5th grade he's a college freshman now.

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

Type physician salary survey into any search engine and you should get different figures.

Generally the South and Midwest tend to have the highest physician salaries, due to the least penetration of managed care.

Ironically, California, with the second highest cost of living in the country, tend to have the lowest physician salaries.

The highest paid physicians usually include: neurosurgery, cardiothoracic surgery, hand surgery, orthopedics, plastics.

The lowest (always a three way battle for the bottom): psychiatry, pediatrics, and family practice.

Somebody buy this poster a beer! In my years on SDN, this is the first post on physician salaries that was 100% accurate. Athough I would advocate for putting rad onc on the highest-paid list. Physician comp, in general, is heavily influenced not only by managed care but also by the perceived desirability of living in a particular place - which is why the South indeed does have the highest compensation, and California tends to be below-average - too many docs want to locate in California. All of the pediatric specialties pay less - because many, many peds patients are on Medicaid - which doesn't pay well.

Before I went to medical school, I was in hospital and clinic administration for 20 years - as a Certified Public Accountant. Part of the work I did was physician compensation. What I will say is this - there are highly accurate sources of physician compensation - because hospitals and clinics will report accurate figures; they want to know how they compare to everyone else. However, the 2 or 3 organizations that publish current, accurate physician comp information charge a lot of money for that data. I have access to the public data as well as the private stuff - and, trust me, the public stuff is wildly inaccurate (take heart, though, it's usually low - because it's usually old). If you want to know what your specialty actually pays in your state, find someone who is willing to let you peek at an MGMA Compensation Survey, which is $400/year in bound form and goes up from there for electronic access with more information.

There are physicians who make $80K a year, but they are in badly-mismanaged practices. If you don't know how to bill and don't know how to collect, guess what - you won't make much. Being a doctor does not teach you how to run a medical practice. I used to get paid a pretty fair salary for understanding the complexities of healthcare billing - it's incredibly complicated, and you aren't taught anything about it in medical school (or about managed care contracting, for that matter). That's why medical administration is a separate career from medicine.

The poster who cited $150 to $500 depending on specialty is pretty close to the current mark - although you can go considerably higher, especially in ortho surgery - and you can go lower, especially in peds and psychiatry. That figure is probably almost exactly right, though, for the mean and 2 standard deviations.

 

[BORNagainSTDENT]

why does psychiatry get paid so little.

 

[FrickenhugeMD]

Let this thread die! it is over 7 years old!

 

[Dr Funk]

I say keep it going. Not much has changed in the last few years

 

[-Goose-]

 

[Long Dong]

I say keep it going. Not much has changed in the last few years

We'll see what happens with the new pres.

 

[hmm...]

We'll see what happens with the new pres.

i read somewhere that retinal surgeons make over $1M in private group practice

 

[scrubswannabe]

Yea, werd I want this thread to survive!
It all still applies, nothing has changed in the 7 years since it was started.