M.D. from China anyone?

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pharmy614

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Hi guys...

I'm a Canadian student who's considering attending a Chinese med school for foreign/international students that'll be 2-3 yrs long and very inexpensive. But I was wondering: if I do get my M.D. from China will it be hard to find high-paying positions in the West and especially the Middleast (where I want to work)? This is b/c I've heard that the Middleastern hospitals/institutions prefer Western educated doctors (i.e. western med schools). Anyone have any thoughts or experiences on this?

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I have no idea, but you might want to try reading through or searching through the International Forums on SDN (there's actually an "Africa & Middle East" forum). No idea if there's anything helpful in there, but it can't hurt to check. Good luck.
 
I'm a Canadian student who's considering attending a Chinese med school for foreign/international students that'll be 2-3 yrs long and very inexpensive. But I was wondering: if I do get my M.D. from China will it be hard to find high-paying positions in the West and especially the Middleast (where I want to work)? This is b/c I've heard that the Middleastern hospitals/institutions prefer Western educated doctors (i.e. western med schools). Anyone have any thoughts or experiences on this?

Yes, I think you should do this.

I'm sure that, as a non-citizen who spent years in a Communist nation, studying "medicine" at a non-US accredited institution that is half as long as American programs, you will be in great demand.

:laugh:
 
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Yes, I think you should do this.

I'm sure that, as a non-citizen who spent years in a Communist nation, studying "medicine" at a non-US accredited institution that is half as long as American programs, you will be in great demand.

:laugh:


America? I didn't mention anything about working in America. I'm Canadian born and raised and if I ever work in the west it'll be in Canada.:)
 
Errrr... communism is an economic theory. What does it have to do with medical education?
 
Errrr... communism is an economic theory. What does it have to do with medical education?

It's cute that you're trying to be technical, unfortunately you're not very well read.

The ecomonic theories of Communism were developed in conjunction with its social and political theories. Had you actually read any of Das Kapital or the Manifesto, you would know this. In fact, the central premise of communism is that economics form the foundation of social and political life, and that they cannot be seperated.

And on a more modern level, the word "Communism" is commonly used to denote a sociopolitical system of central economic and social control that is loosely based on the sybolism found in Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist thought. But of course you knew this, and were just trying to sound smart. Better luck next time.
 
America? I didn't mention anything about working in America. I'm Canadian born and raised and if I ever work in the west it'll be in Canada.:)

I'm sorry. :D

Carry on.
 
Hi guys...

I'm a Canadian student who's considering attending a Chinese med school for foreign/international students that'll be 2-3 yrs long and very inexpensive. But I was wondering: if I do get my M.D. from China will it be hard to find high-paying positions in the West and especially the Middleast (where I want to work)? This is b/c I've heard that the Middleastern hospitals/institutions prefer Western educated doctors (i.e. western med schools). Anyone have any thoughts or experiences on this?

Yea Middle Eastern countries prefer you either get a degree from the West or from their institutions. You would even be better off in the Caribbean. But this is just speculation I guess.
 
I would recommend you check this out from two fronts.

1. Check out some of the places you want to practice specifically. Find out where their international physicians trained. I wouldn't leave it to a vague impression.

2. Look at where the Chinese school places its residents. Has anyone from that school ever done this before? Contact them if need be. You don't want to go there if they can't answer that simple question.

I'll admit I'm a bit wary about overseas medical education, at the very least you should research every possible aspect of the program.

EDIT: and i would check out the international forums as Phoenix suggested.
 
One word of advice: don't.

I've read comments from the few students from outside of China that have gone to Chinese med schools, and it doesn't sound like a good option. Professors are not always the most fluent in English, and China is not known for their medical education (in comparison to some countries) as much as they are for other areas in the sciences.

I've also heard of maybe one Westerner attending school there, and they were born in China and moved to the US when they were young. The overwhelming majority of students from outside of China attending school there are Indian or Malaysian students. You are probably talking about: Chinese Medical University, Tianjin, or one of the others that caters towards Indian students. I can't remember which university it was, but one is located in a town where it's reccomended you don't ever drink the water unless you've boiled it first. I don't know about you, but I don't think I want to study somewhere that requires me to worry about things that you'd never worry about here, like clean water being replaced by benzene-contaminated water.

If you can't afford anywhere expensive (Caribbean), check out Europe; schools in Hungary/Czech Republic are USD 10 grand a year, which is cheap. If even THAT'S too expensive, there are schools in Romania or Russia that cost ~ USD $2500 per year. I think that's about the same price as a Chinese school.

I'd definitely NOT reccomend going to Russia or Romania for med school coming from Canada, but I think the option is more legit than going to China. And techinically Europe is "the West," so maybe your degree would be more accepted in the Middle East.
 
Look who's talking, the poster was just commenting on the idea that the social and political life does not necessarily affect the quality of a doctor or medical education, and we have someone like you trying to impress others by writing an essay on communism. pfftzzzzz
I bet you are one of those docs who try to impress girls by wearing a white coat or an ID badge everywhere you go.


It's cute that you're trying to be technical, unfortunately you're not very well read.

The ecomonic theories of Communism were developed in conjunction with its social and political theories. Had you actually read any of Das Kapital or the Manifesto, you would know this. In fact, the central premise of communism is that economics form the foundation of social and political life, and that they cannot be seperated.

And on a more modern level, the word "Communism" is commonly used to denote a sociopolitical system of central economic and social control that is loosely based on the sybolism found in Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist thought. But of course you knew this, and were just trying to sound smart. Better luck next time.


to OP: it would be nearly impossible to practice in Canada with a MD from china,
also, try schools from poland, a friend of mine (canadian) is doing his MD at one of the schools there, and he will start his res in newfoundland soon
 
My aunt got her M.D. in China and moved to the united states. In order for her to get a job here, she had to relearn everything in english, and take all the step tests and board test after being a doctor for 19 years in china. She is extremely bright and received 99 percentiles on all of them, however, even with those scores, the best hospitals in the nation did not offer her a job because her degree is not from a western nation. So I strongly recommend against going to med school in China because it is tougher to find a job here. Also med schools in China is 5 years total, undergrad and med school together. So if you got your bachelors here, you would still have to go to med school 5 years there.
 
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Look who's talking, the poster was just commenting on the idea that the social and political life does not necessarily affect the quality of a doctor or medical education, and we have someone like you trying to impress others by writing an essay on communism. pfftzzzzz
I bet you are one of those docs who try to impress girls by wearing a white coat or an ID badge everywhere you go.

I wasn't trying to impress anyone, I was trying to call him an idiot without coming out and saying it. Sorry, I'll use shorter words next time.
 
I wasn't trying to impress anyone, I was trying to call him an idiot without coming out and saying it. Sorry, I'll use shorter words next time.

sorry about my post too, there is a power shortage at my apartment
no ac, no fan, i am using the only outlet that works for my laptop and internet
it's so hot, i want to go out, yet i have to finish my stupid thesis......
 
I had a relative who went to med school in China. I believe Beida.

Depending on how good your Mandarin is, I wouldn't recommend it. All the schools teach it in scientific level Mandarin, and generally incorporate a lot more traditional chinese medicine (which isn't bad). He did get certified to practice in the US, but it took him an additional 2 years to study for the boards USMLE Steps 1, 2, and 3. And he had to do his residency here.

However, he was a very good student. Certainly, if he was American or Canadian good enough to get into a top notch American school, or one of the Canadian schools for that matter.

My question is though, why would you want to learn all your clinical terms in Mandarin, to go and learn say... Farsi to work in the Middle East? I mean, med school+residency is hard enough.
 
Sometimes, it's best to NOT take the road less traveled. If you seriously don't see yourself raising your stats to the Canadian/US selection level, I would go to the Caribbean - at least this is an established route. It's also more complicated, but you will study in English, go through a curriculum that's meant to help you pass the USMLEs, and you will be able to do rotations in the US, gaining North American experiences and making connections with people who can actually help you here in the future when it comes to residency and fellowships.
 
My question is though, why would you want to learn all your clinical terms in Mandarin, to go and learn say... Farsi to work in the Middle East? I mean, med school+residency is hard enough.
A good point, because if you want to practice in ME, you might want to also consider local med schools. I don't know anyone personally who's done that, but I know there is at least one person on the Canadian forums who went to Tel Aviv for med school this summer.
 
I had a relative who went to med school in China. I believe Beida.

Depending on how good your Mandarin is, I wouldn't recommend it. All the schools teach it in scientific level Mandarin, and generally incorporate a lot more traditional chinese medicine (which isn't bad). He did get certified to practice in the US, but it took him an additional 2 years to study for the boards USMLE Steps 1, 2, and 3. And he had to do his residency here.

However, he was a very good student. Certainly, if he was American or Canadian good enough to get into a top notch American school, or one of the Canadian schools for that matter.

My question is though, why would you want to learn all your clinical terms in Mandarin, to go and learn say... Farsi to work in the Middle East? I mean, med school+residency is hard enough.

Actually, tons of school teach in English for at least the basic sciences years nowadays, in attempt to usurp money from desperate foreigners.
 
Actually, tons of school teach in English for at least the basic sciences years nowadays, in attempt to usurp money from desperate foreigners.
I wonder what that "English" is like.
 
A good point, because if you want to practice in ME, you might want to also consider local med schools. I don't know anyone personally who's done that, but I know there is at least one person on the Canadian forums who went to Tel Aviv for med school this summer.

True, Technion, Ben-Gurion, and Sackler are all top-notch medical universities. If the OP's stats are up to snuff (Israeli schools don't take rejects, some students in the int'l forums say their schools claim the average is 3.6/27 or so, which is basically a US med school) it's a totally legitimate choice.
 
True, Technion, Ben-Gurion, and Sackler are all top-notch medical universities. If the OP's stats are up to snuff (Israeli schools don't take rejects, some students in the int'l forums say their schools claim the average is 3.6/27 or so, which is basically a US med school) it's a totally legitimate choice.
Yes, I believe the person I was referring to actually rescinded his offer from a US med school to go there (for personal reasons), so he definitely must've been reasonably competitive if he were able to secure an admission from an American school.
 
To put some things into a little prespetive , ignoring licensing problems and etc. I really don't think middle east is not in shortage of medical personnel (unless you are willing to work in under-served areas-- and afghanistan/iraq)

For example in Iran, which in recent years has cut down on the number of doctors graduating because of an overflow, students have to go through a rigorous standardized university enterance exam (konkour) -- typically 1.5 million competing for 100,000 public school seats (and 200,000 additional private, which are considered much less prestigious and very expensive) The top few thousand are accepted into the prestigious public medical universities and get the typical 4-year med student, 3-year intern expereince (the whole process there I would argue is much more competitive and rigorous than in the US considering the number of people competing). Now with economic conditions, engineers are becoming janitors, and doctors are becoming a dime a dozen. No one is desperate for foreign educated doctors-- specially from less qualified schools. (for stats search for iran
http://www.aurora.edu/organizations/thespartan/pdfs/v02n03.pdf )
 
My aunt got her M.D. in China and moved to the united states. In order for her to get a job here, she had to relearn everything in english, and take all the step tests and board test after being a doctor for 19 years in china. She is extremely bright and received 99 percentiles on all of them, however, even with those scores, the best hospitals in the nation did not offer her a job because her degree is not from a western nation. So I strongly recommend against going to med school in China because it is tougher to find a job here. Also med schools in China is 5 years total, undergrad and med school together. So if you got your bachelors here, you would still have to go to med school 5 years there.
I agree with this post. One of my friend's Mom was a doctor in China and when she came to the U.S., she had to work as a nurse because of the difficulty in obtaining a job as a foreign trained physician. Just like the previous poster, this woman had to take all of the exams for a not-so-great outcome.
 
It's cute that you're trying to be technical, unfortunately you're not very well read.

The ecomonic theories of Communism were developed in conjunction with its social and political theories. Had you actually read any of Das Kapital or the Manifesto, you would know this. In fact, the central premise of communism is that economics form the foundation of social and political life, and that they cannot be seperated.

And on a more modern level, the word "Communism" is commonly used to denote a sociopolitical system of central economic and social control that is loosely based on the sybolism found in Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist thought. But of course you knew this, and were just trying to sound smart. Better luck next time.


You make no absolute sense at all...how is the fact that communism is a sociopolitical theory has to do with the quality of medical school? Just because a country is communist does not follow that their medical school would be ****ty. It this is true, how the hell russians scientists manage to send a man to space and create high-tech weapons? Now I agree that Chinese medical school aren't good but not because the country is under communist control. It might as well be that Chinese medical schools will improve their standard on a par with US's while under communist control...
 
I wouldnt say its the best idea. I remember that there were a few people from China that had to start all over at the CC that I attend to meet all their prereq's for med school. Of course they were blowing out the class average and made it near impossible for me to make a A in the class, but yeah, not the best option to go to med school.
 
You make no absolute sense at all...how is the fact that communism is a sociopolitical theory has to do with the quality of medical school? Just because a country is communist does not follow that their medical school would be ****ty. It this is true, how the hell russians scientists manage to send a man to space and create high-tech weapons? Now I agree that Chinese medical school aren't good but not because the country is under communist control. It might as well be that Chinese medical schools will improve their standard on a par with US's while under communist control...

I know for a fact that degrees (or more specifically courses) from China aren't accepted here in the US.
 
i know someone who got her m.d. in china. she now works in a biotech because it was too hard to practice here. enough said.
 
Does anyone know someone who got MD from China and now working in the Middle East, another country or even China herself? Do patients still respect doctors a lot in China? In other words, do patients sue their doctors in China? I've heard that it's happening in other Asian countries now.


The OP has already mentioned twice that s/he didn't intend to practice in the USA. I still wonder if s/he is fluent in both English and the school official language. How much better could s/he do than just counting pills...oopse, forget that... I mean, does s/he have any back up plan for the repatriation to Canada? I've heard that some Asian country covets patients from middle east countries nowadays.

In any scenario, I bet that the way the OP present this thread, s/he must love chop suey a lot.
 
To answer some and maybe not all your questions.

Medicine works like this in China for the most part. Once you go to high school junior-senior year, you take an exam that mostly decides your future. IF you pass the level to become a doctor, you go directly into medicine FIVE years (whoever said half as long is stupid, ignorant, or otherwise talking out of his ***) four years for western medicine and one year for eastern if you want the equivalent to a M.D. Eastern medicinal practices are different. You become a doctor at 24 and start practicing.

AND YES, there are those who study medicine in China and test their way to become a M.D. in the US, unfortunately, there are restrictions on the type of practice you can do and it is difficult.
 
It's cute that you're trying to be technical, unfortunately you're not very well read.

The ecomonic theories of Communism were developed in conjunction with its social and political theories. Had you actually read any of Das Kapital or the Manifesto, you would know this. In fact, the central premise of communism is that economics form the foundation of social and political life, and that they cannot be seperated.

And on a more modern level, the word "Communism" is commonly used to denote a sociopolitical system of central economic and social control that is loosely based on the sybolism found in Marxist-Leninist-Stalinist thought. But of course you knew this, and were just trying to sound smart. Better luck next time.

I'm not sure what you are talking about here. The education in China has little do to with communism. Science is science no matter what political ideology is taught.

My parents are Chinese biologist (with respective degrees in biology from Chinese universities). They've worked at two major universities and currently work for a large pharm company as researchers and there are a lot of Chinese researchers who got their undergrad and graduate degrees in China. The science taught in China is very compatible with that taught in the US.

We have a lot of Chinese friends who are doctors who are trying to get relicensed here in the US. I also have two cousins who are MDs in China, both of whom were interested in studying in the US.

Based on their experiences, here is what I got from them:

1. Do not go to China for an MD if your goal is to practice back here in the US or Canada. It's for the same reason that one should avoid the Caribbeans or any other foreign medical schools. Go to medical school in the country that you want to practice in.

2. Chinese medical schools for native citizens are good for basic sciences, not so hot for clinicals. My cousins have an MD but they've only spent one year in clinical rotation. They spent the same amount of years in basic sciences as we do, about four years (for US kids, it's two years for pre-reqs, two years of basic sciences). The fifth year is at a hospital for one year of rotation. Then they are pushed into a job at a hospital where people watch out for them but there is not formal residency apprenticeship. Also, medical schools in China are offered at the undergraduate level as well as the graduate level. You can do MDs as bachelors, masters and doctoral level. The doctoral level MD are eight years long and you spend all eight years taking biology courses. Chinese universities do not stress a 'liberal arts' approach to education. If one goes on the science track, there is no 'humanities' or social sciences requirement. It's all science classes throughout your years of education there.

3. The medical schools opened for foreigners, specifically US students who can't get into US medical schools are so new they have almost no track record of sending kids back for rotations and matching. The one I have heard of is in Shanghai. The girl is a US citizen (with Chinese parents), a high school graduate who has such bad grades that her parents are sure she won't get into med school in the US, so they send her to China for this special program. Her parents say that she will do the first four years in China, focusing on the sciences, then come back for her last two years of clinical sciences, and then match here as a FMG. She gets no bachelors, so almost two years of her education is cut off. It would be like someone doing their pre-reqs then diving into medical school. The quality of english, I would wager, is probably pretty bad at these schools. Most Chinese learned english in high school which do not stress pronunciation. In other words, even the best english student may only be proficient in writing the language, not speaking it.

4. It's very, very hard for Chinese doctors to get re-licensed because of language deficiencies. Unlike their Indian counterpart who have a much higher success rate of passing the USMLE, Chinese educated doctors grew up not learning English until high school. It is only in the last five years that China has stipulated all english be taught at the 3rd grade. Hence, the average Chinese doctor currently spend 2-4 years relearning all their medical terminology in english before trying for the USLME. And there is a low pass rate for matching. From what we have seen, most Chinese doctors here work at research facilities and their biggest frustration with the USMLE is they understand the sciences just fine, but it's the english that gets to them. In other words, it is not their technical education that is poor, but their English education.

5. There is a stigma attached to attending a foreign medical school in a nonWestern country. Even the best medical university in China (Beida Medical College) see graduates suffer in the US match. The Caribbeans are the exception because there has been such a long history of success Caribbeans grads coming back to the US to practice medicine. I would avoid going to a medical school in a developing country if possible (except for the Caribbeans). Go Caribbean or Western Europe.

My suggestion is to avoid going to China for a medical education, not because of any basic science deficiencies, but because of the poor English that will probably be used to teach you the basic sciences, the uncertain paths that you would need to take to get back to the US, and the stigma of going to a non-Western medical school (and there is a BIG one).

Good luck!
 
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Hello all,

Your responses are much appreciated but there seems to be some confusion about my situation (I thought I made it clear before but eh..I'll try again).

I am a Canadian student who's just graduated from the University of Toronto Honors BSc. program. I only speak english seeing as I'm caucasian (Scottish/Portugese) so I don't speak Mandarin. However, the med schools in China that I wanted to apply to are for foreign students only (ie. International students) so its English instruction only... and it would not be for 5 years since I've already completed most of their material in my BSc, it would be like 2-3 years tops at $3000-$4000US/year. So...my question was if I attended this Chinese school and obtained an M.D. would it be hard to get good positions in the future not only in the west (Europe or Canada )but in the Middleast as well? And I'm interested in the middleast (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait). b/c they pay like $200,000/year starting salaries:eek:.....Glad to have cleared that up, and thanks for your advice guys!!!
 
I have absolutely no idea why you'd want to go to China for medicine if you don't even have any connections to the country, after people have described to you in a lot of detail how much this decision can harm you.

Your question about the Middle East has also been addressed - the only way to find out is to contact local hospitals. You also need to see if you can get employment there speaking only English - you might need a knowledge of Hebrew or Arabic. You were also given the suggestion that ME schools will probably be a much better fit for you than Chinese if you want to practice in ME.
 
Hello all,

Your responses are much appreciated but there seems to be some confusion about my situation (I thought I made it clear before but eh..I'll try again).

I am a Canadian student who's just graduated from the University of Toronto Honors BSc. program. I only speak english seeing as I'm caucasian (Scottish/Portugese) so I don't speak Mandarin. However, the med schools in China that I wanted to apply to are for foreign students only (ie. International students) so its English instruction only... and it would not be for 5 years since I've already completed most of their material in my BSc, it would be like 2-3 years tops at $3000-$4000US/year. So...my question was if I attended this Chinese school and obtained an M.D. would it be hard to get good positions in the future not only in the west (Europe or Canada )but in the Middleast as well? And I'm interested in the middleast (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait). b/c they pay like $200,000/year starting salaries:eek:.....Glad to have cleared that up, and thanks for your advice guys!!!


Any medical school which requires "2-3 years tops" after your BSc doesn't sound like such a great place. Also, where did you get the information about the mideast salaries? Do you honestly think you can make 200K/year out of med school without doing a residency?
 
You make no absolute sense at all...how is the fact that communism is a sociopolitical theory has to do with the quality of medical school? Just because a country is communist does not follow that their medical school would be ****ty. It this is true, how the hell russians scientists manage to send a man to space and create high-tech weapons? Now I agree that Chinese medical school aren't good but not because the country is under communist control. It might as well be that Chinese medical schools will improve their standard on a par with US's while under communist control...

Let try smaller words this time so that I'm clear.

The OPs question was "If I go to this school, can I get a good job in the West?" I thought that by "West" he meant U.S. (apparently Canada is part of the West, and not, as I assumed, the 51st U.S. state). People who spend years of their lives being educated in a Communist (read: enemy) nation tend to have a little difficulty finding work here.

That was my only point.

Oh, although I haven't said it previously: yes, I'm sure the school sucks a$$ because it's in mainland China. I doubt it compares to even the weakest schools in the U.S., Canada, or Western Europe.
 
Hello all,

Your responses are much appreciated but there seems to be some confusion about my situation (I thought I made it clear before but eh..I'll try again).

I am a Canadian student who's just graduated from the University of Toronto Honors BSc. program. I only speak english seeing as I'm caucasian (Scottish/Portugese) so I don't speak Mandarin. However, the med schools in China that I wanted to apply to are for foreign students only (ie. International students) so its English instruction only... and it would not be for 5 years since I've already completed most of their material in my BSc, it would be like 2-3 years tops at $3000-$4000US/year. So...my question was if I attended this Chinese school and obtained an M.D. would it be hard to get good positions in the future not only in the west (Europe or Canada )but in the Middleast as well? And I'm interested in the middleast (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait). b/c they pay like $200,000/year starting salaries:eek:.....Glad to have cleared that up, and thanks for your advice guys!!!

Hey fellow Canadian...

Your future plans seem COMPLETELY from left field. Why exactly do you want to study medicine in China? Furthermore, have you ever set foot in Asia? China?

I'm probably going to be flamed for this, but China is hardly an ideal environment for study. The last time I was in Shanghai or Beijing, I couldn't wait to get the hell out. Insanely hectic, pollution worse than anything you can imagine, a national love for the disgusting practice of public spitting, CROWDED CROWDED CROWDED...man, the list goes on. Oh, and since you don't know Mandarin, you might as well be mute because NO ONE speaks English in China.

In conclusion, China is a messed up country where almost ANYTHING GOES. I'd rather go to school in Thailand!
 
Hello all,

Your responses are much appreciated but there seems to be some confusion about my situation (I thought I made it clear before but eh..I'll try again).

I am a Canadian student who's just graduated from the University of Toronto Honors BSc. program. I only speak english seeing as I'm caucasian (Scottish/Portugese) so I don't speak Mandarin. However, the med schools in China that I wanted to apply to are for foreign students only (ie. International students) so its English instruction only... and it would not be for 5 years since I've already completed most of their material in my BSc, it would be like 2-3 years tops at $3000-$4000US/year. So...my question was if I attended this Chinese school and obtained an M.D. would it be hard to get good positions in the future not only in the west (Europe or Canada )but in the Middleast as well? And I'm interested in the middleast (Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait). b/c they pay like $200,000/year starting salaries:eek:.....Glad to have cleared that up, and thanks for your advice guys!!!

I'm going to level with you.

2-3 years, low tuition... You should realize there has to be something wrong here.

On top of that, as mentioned above. You only speak English and you want to set up shop in a region that speaks primarily NOT ENGLISH, but also generally harbors a resentment for those who do and expect to be paid 200k for your trouble? If that doesn't work out, where will you practice then?

Rushing to the big pay-off can get you into a lot of trouble. Med School is about delayed gratification.
 
Hey fellow Canadian...

Your future plans seem COMPLETELY from left field. Why exactly do you want to study medicine in China? Furthermore, have you ever set foot in Asia? China?

I'm probably going to be flamed for this, but China is hardly an ideal environment for study. The last time I was in Shanghai or Beijing, I couldn't wait to get the hell out. Insanely hectic, pollution worse than anything you can imagine, a national love for the disgusting practice of public spitting, CROWDED CROWDED CROWDED...man, the list goes on. Oh, and since you don't know Mandarin, you might as well be mute because NO ONE speaks English in China.

In conclusion, China is a messed up country where almost ANYTHING GOES. I'd rather go to school in Thailand!



where is ur philanthropic disposition as a physician? it is true that China has colossal problems from pollution to human rights, but that doesnt mean as physicians we can't study there. Have you ever heard of Paul Farmer? Have you ever heard of Doctors without Borders? Altruistic physicians go to the poorest and most "messed up" countries to volunteer their services because they probably can use our help. Have u set foot on thailand? cuz i have, and it has its own problems, from human trafficking to rampant prostitution. and bangkok is just as polluted as beijing. But i'd love to do international rotation in either city, probably see a lot more diseases and rare cases than in US. but that doesnt mean going to China for my entire MD education
 
where is ur philanthropic disposition as a physician? it is true that China has colossal problems from pollution to human rights, but that doesnt mean as physicians we can't study there. Have you ever heard of Paul Farmer? Have you ever heard of Doctors without Borders? Altruistic physicians go to the poorest and most "messed up" countries to volunteer their services because they probably can use our help. Have u set foot on thailand? cuz i have, and it has its own problems, from human trafficking to rampant prostitution. and bangkok is just as polluted as beijing. But i'd love to do international rotation in either city, probably see a lot more diseases and rare cases than in US. but that doesnt mean going to China for my entire MD education

You kind of said it yourself in the last sentence. Going to a "messed up" country to volunteer has nothing to do with going to a "messed up" country to obtain a subpar medical education.
 
Does anyone know someone who got MD from China and now working in the Middle East, another country or even China herself? Do patients still respect doctors a lot in China? In other words, do patients sue their doctors in China? I've heard that it's happening in other Asian countries now.


The OP has already mentioned twice that s/he didn't intend to practice in the USA. I still wonder if s/he is fluent in both English and the school official language. How much better could s/he do than just counting pills...oopse, forget that... I mean, does s/he have any back up plan for the repatriation to Canada? I've heard that some Asian country covets patients from middle east countries nowadays.

In any scenario, I bet that the way the OP present this thread, s/he must love chop suey a lot.



Not sure if you're seriously asking but I'll answer. YES, doctors hold alot of social status in China, probably equivalent to how we see people with MDs in the US but no where NEAR the economic status.

Law suits, they're rare but growing, that's very much true. Insurance companies are still budding in China so getting insurance as a doctor or as a patient is still not that universal. IE, if you screw up surgery in China, it is more likely the patients family shows up at your doctor wanting to beat the crap out of you than being served.

I do not know the exact details of the content but it drops alot of the chemistry/physics aspects of medicine, biochemistry is still taught to some degree.

On a side note, to no one specific, it seems quite a few people should read Benedict Anderson or Edward Said's works (not wiki).
 
where is ur philanthropic disposition as a physician? it is true that China has colossal problems from pollution to human rights, but that doesnt mean as physicians we can't study there. Have you ever heard of Paul Farmer? Have you ever heard of Doctors without Borders? Altruistic physicians go to the poorest and most "messed up" countries to volunteer their services because they probably can use our help. Have u set foot on thailand? cuz i have, and it has its own problems, from human trafficking to rampant prostitution. and bangkok is just as polluted as beijing. But i'd love to do international rotation in either city, probably see a lot more diseases and rare cases than in US. but that doesnt mean going to China for my entire MD education

Wow, thanks for the lesson about Thailand :rolleyes: I meant that last statement in jest as I would rather not study medicine in Asia at all.

I don't see how you can automatically criticize my "philanthropic disposition" from my post. China is not a pleasant country to live in - not even in the modern cities like Shanghai and Beijing. It is not an agreeable environment for the study of medicine. I find it hard you can disagree with that.

Oh, and there's a GAPING hole in your argument you overlooked: there's a massive difference between doing an international rotation or even a field assignment with MSF (~3mth to 1 year) versus spending 3 years and actually studying for a medical education.
 
where is ur philanthropic disposition as a physician? it is true that China has colossal problems from pollution to human rights, but that doesnt mean as physicians we can't study there. Have you ever heard of Paul Farmer? Have you ever heard of Doctors without Borders? Altruistic physicians go to the poorest and most "messed up" countries to volunteer their services because they probably can use our help. Have u set foot on thailand? cuz i have, and it has its own problems, from human trafficking to rampant prostitution. and bangkok is just as polluted as beijing. But i'd love to do international rotation in either city, probably see a lot more diseases and rare cases than in US. but that doesnt mean going to China for my entire MD education

Many people make this mistake, but (shockingly) Med School is not a philanthropic venture. You actually must be quite selfish to survive the demands placed upon you... Sure you can make time for community service every so often, even do a medical mission. This is a little different than living someplace that you'd do a medical mission and trying to leech out a viable education.

That aside, how does going to med school in a country help anyone there? It's not like studying biochem is going to change any lives. When he finally gets to his clinicals, it's still education. He isn't providing a charitable service, he's learning under the supervision of physicians (who aren't working for free).
 
Maybe an experience I had in Hong Kong would be helpful to the OP. I took the MCAT in Hong Kong, since I was living in China and they don't allow the MCAT to be administered on the mainland.

There were 3 other students who tested at the same time as me, all from Hong Kong (I'm American). We hung out for a bit afterwards, and they were all saying they wanted to go to med schools in Canada or Australia. I asked why not the U.S., and they said that it was just too hard to get in and too expensive. And then I asked, well, why not China? They were all trilingual, in Mandarin, Cantonese, and English, and they were Hong Kong citizens, so neither citizenship nor language was an obstacle. They laughed in my face!

They said that even in Hong Kong, which is technically now a part of China, (although it does enjoy many relaxed rules thanks to its special status), even IF they could manage to get a job with a degree from China, that patients would never go to see a doctor with a Chinese medical degree. It sounded like they spoke from both experience and common knowledge.

I have to say that if a mainland medical degree is frowned upon even in Hong Kong, it's unlikely that such a degree would be considered respectable elsewhere.

(That said, I don't actually believe that there's necessarily a HUGE difference in the education you'd receive; I think every country, and especially the U.S., tends to glorify their own system, sometimes overly so.

Also, to those who were making a big deal out of the fact that it's a 2-3 year program, you should realize that that's in addition to the 4 year medical university program those students have already done. China is like Europe, in that students enter directly into medical studies from high school. For anyone wishing to switch into that system, this creates another complication: you'd have to go back and do some of the years of "undergraduate" medicine (which is not the equivalent of our pre-med classes, but more like the first 2 years of medical school in the states)).

p.s. I just saw that the OP doesn't speak Mandarin, and would be going to one of the new "foreigner" schools. Forget it. There's already trouble with the reputation of the well-established, traditional university programs...also, I'm pretty sure that a medical degree from a country whose language you don't speak is a waste of time.
 
I don't see how you can automatically criticize my "philanthropic disposition" from my post. China is not a pleasant country to live in - not even in the modern cities like Shanghai and Beijing. It is not an agreeable environment for the study of medicine. I find it hard you can disagree with that.

I did agree that China has its problems and isn't the best place to live or study. My point was that it should be interesting to see the practice of medicine in a place where there are many non-biological determinants of disease. and I did say that interested in rotations there doesnt equate interest in a three year program there.

Many people make this mistake, but (shockingly) Med School is not a philanthropic venture. You actually must be quite selfish to survive the demands placed upon you...

my bad, i thought it's very important for doctors to be altruistic and willing to serve the underserved. maybe i am just idealistic and have been sheltered from the cruelty of the real world.
 
Maybe an experience I had in Hong Kong would be helpful to the OP. I took the MCAT in Hong Kong, since I was living in China and they don't allow the MCAT to be administered on the mainland.

There were 3 other students who tested at the same time as me, all from Hong Kong (I'm American). We hung out for a bit afterwards, and they were all saying they wanted to go to med schools in Canada or Australia. I asked why not the U.S., and they said that it was just too hard to get in and too expensive. And then I asked, well, why not China? They were all trilingual, in Mandarin, Cantonese, and English, and they were Hong Kong citizens, so neither citizenship nor language was an obstacle. They laughed in my face!

They said that even in Hong Kong, which is technically now a part of China, (although it does enjoy many relaxed rules thanks to its special status), even IF they could manage to get a job with a degree from China, that patients would never go to see a doctor with a Chinese medical degree. It sounded like they spoke from both experience and common knowledge.

I have to say that if a mainland medical degree is frowned upon even in Hong Kong, it's unlikely that such a degree would be considered respectable elsewhere.

(That said, I don't actually believe that there's necessarily a HUGE difference in the education you'd receive; I think every country, and especially the U.S., tends to glorify their own system, sometimes overly so.

Also, to those who were making a big deal out of the fact that it's a 2-3 year program, you should realize that that's in addition to the 4 year medical university program those students have already done. China is like Europe, in that students enter directly into medical studies from high school. For anyone wishing to switch into that system, this creates another complication: you'd have to go back and do some of the years of "undergraduate" medicine (which is not the equivalent of our pre-med classes, but more like the first 2 years of medical school in the states)).

p.s. I just saw that the OP doesn't speak Mandarin, and would be going to one of the new "foreigner" schools. Forget it. There's already trouble with the reputation of the well-established, traditional university programs...also, I'm pretty sure that a medical degree from a country whose language you don't speak is a waste of time.


I understand. Thank you.
 
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