You think that would be a 2 pointer or 1 pointer?
Just checked the essentials WISC book- you don't take off anything for grammar on vocab. So if otherwise a 2 pt response, it remains a 2 pt.
The example isn’t a real item.
I'm talking about the scoring (that there are different point values for different responses), discussing whether grammar matters, etc.
I'm a nerd, not a dork, thank you very much.
then testingmom.com will make you really grab your pearls.
Oof. Feel sorry for those kids.
I'm horrified reading this site. Especially this:
Is it wrong that my first thought was that now I really want to do a study to see what effect that kind of test prep for something like a WISC actually does to scores?
I did not see that... I just... wow.
I suspect there are some psychologists who have enough of an issue with the idea/concept of intelligence testing that they would not see something like this as a problem, such as relating to access to/restriction of resources, etc. And others who just see it as "helping" the client.
Yes, I think you're right. Kind of an odd way to "help" someone if it gets them into a school where they'll struggle to thrive, but hey - maybe their admissions testing is harder than the academics.
This is long standing issue in school psych—parents want to coach their kids to qualify for gifted/talent programs for bragging rights, basically, because G/T programming in most districts is really, really lacking, tbh.
I've been thinking about, when I open a private practice, explicitly stating that I do not do "gifted" testing because telling a kid how smart they are is usually one of the worst things you can do. Although, there are some exceptions (e.g., when a kiddo is showing learned helplessness or academic rejection because of a learning disability or attentional issue).
1. I don't want to type out a huge dissertation, but there is research showing that praise for ability (versus effort) can actually undermine motivation and performance. The seminal study showed less task persistence, less task enjoyment, etc. This viewpoint is not without controversy.I think it's often a case of the self-fulfilling prophecy and less about ability. Nevertheless, there is also a pragmatic approach that I take, while you can not alter ability, we can alter things like process and effort.
With regard to this specific point only, if I'm not mistaken, the research that supports the idea that praise for ability over performance undermines motivation entails repeated instances of such praise over time, rather than a single incident of feedback at the end of a psychological evaluation. I will grant that this is not an area of expertise on my part, so maybe I'm missing something, but this point feels like a stretch as it relates to the claim that "telling a kid how smart they are is usually one of the worst things you can do" in the context of psych evals.
Bit of self-disclosure: I'm not a genius or the brightest, but this explains....so much. Guess I'm a product of my parent's uber praise/helicoptering generation. who also has SERIOUS problems with procrastination (i.e., I used to write entire 20ish page forensic evals in the morning before they were due to the Court). I'm working on it, but my parents didn't do me any favors with this, and your point rings very close to home.
It's not a stretch to imagine what a little bit of knowledge in the wrong hands could lead to more of the wrong kind of praise. I should add that expectancy effects are very real, especially in educational settings, (e.g., like Brophy and Good who showed how they are actually done procedurally rather than that they exist). But, I also don't find much utility in using high IQ to make recommendations for different programming and I really don't think the evidence supports its use as a measure of giftedness as much as a measure of unintelligence. What is better, I think, is to let kids who are precocious and let them find their way into more challenging settings. Plus, there is a whole industry over smart kids.
I guess you kind of said it better than I could have. I won't do gifted testing because I don't want to enable that kind of parenting... Its usually more for the parents ego than a desire to help the kiddo find the correct setting.
But they do, often, fall below the district IQ set points (usually IQ>130) on a second test. For an IQ of 130, the expected level of regression if r=.8 is 6 IQ points; https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/EJ746292.pdf)!
IQ is not very stable for younger kids (esp. under 6). The article I referenced above shows that 40% of children of kids with an IQ >128 did not remain in the top 3%...
I worked as a school psych on a military base where we'd get kids who were "gifted" in other states but wouldn't remain qualified for "gifted" in the state I worked in due to state-level criteria. It's not just school districts not knowing "science" but also what states require for eligibility for funding for services. I had many a "de-gifting" eligibility meeting while I was there. It was probably the worst part of the job.
What was working on a military base like? Tons of transfer iep meetings?
Yeah- we had 40% turnover throughout the year and 90% turnover every 3 years. You essentially had to train parents at the beginning about how to carry documents and advocate for their sped kids as they moved. Don't pack the IEP- hand carry it to your next placement. You will get there faster than the last school will be able to fax the paperwork.
Do you recall how many % had IEPs?
It's been awhile- but I remember we had a high identification rate which is typical for military kids. But excluding gifted IEP's I'd guess about an 18% identification rate across the district. Including gifted I believe it was above 20%.
Such is life
No shade on outside psychs or people who did good Autism evals by the way- usually it was counselors who gave a KABC for example and then declared the kid to have Autism that we didn't like. We actually had a partnership with some psychs from a local med school who would come and do ADOS evals every few moths. We really valued those!Such is life
