Masters gpa

[theoblivious7]

Hi all,

If you do a masters program, does that become the new minimum gpa that dental schools look at? For example, I have a 2.8 undergrad gpa but if I do a masters program and get a 4.0 (some really good score), how does that get weighted in terms of my application? I know that they become two separate gpa's but when you see the minimum gpa application requirements (or average gpa ranges), is it your masters score or undergrad gpa.

Secondly,

I graduated from a top 10 school with a 2.8 overall 2.7 science gpa with a bio major. I havent taken the DAT but have taken practice MCATS and scored in the 30-33 range. I plan on taking the DAT this August and will be applying to masters programs in the fall.

1. is there a formal list of masters programs that accept DAT scores?

2. what are my chances after finishing a Masters program?

3. I will be working at a Dental Office starting next week. Is there difference in if i Shadow or if I get paid at the office (as a dental assistant)? i plan on working there for at least a year full time.

thanks

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[theoblivious7]

bump

 

[Destiny11]

Hi all,

If you do a masters program, does that become the new minimum gpa that dental schools look at? For example, I have a 2.8 undergrad gpa but if I do a masters program and get a 4.0 (some really good score), how does that get weighted in terms of my application? I know that they become two separate gpa's but when you see the minimum gpa application requirements (or average gpa ranges), is it your masters score or undergrad gpa.

Secondly,

I graduated from a top 10 school with a 2.8 overall 2.7 science gpa with a bio major. I havent taken the DAT but have taken practice MCATS and scored in the 30-33 range. I plan on taking the DAT this August and will be applying to masters programs in the fall.

1. is there a formal list of masters programs that accept DAT scores?

2. what are my chances after finishing a Masters program?

3. I will be working at a Dental Office starting next week. Is there difference in if i Shadow or if I get paid at the office (as a dental assistant)? i plan on working there for at least a year full time.

thanks

They will look at your cumulative AADSAS GPA to meet the requirements, which will be undergrad + graduate GPA. However, since everyone supposedly do much better in the Masters program, your undergraduate GPA is unfortunately still a key factor used for comparison. Your chances will be better with than without a Master's Degree (heavy in science).

Adcom can careless which school you graduated from, unless they are comparing you with someone with the same stats.

Paid experiences > Shadowing

 

[dentalWorks]

Hi all,

If you do a masters program, does that become the new minimum gpa that dental schools look at? For example, I have a 2.8 undergrad gpa but if I do a masters program and get a 4.0 (some really good score), how does that get weighted in terms of my application? I know that they become two separate gpa's but when you see the minimum gpa application requirements (or average gpa ranges), is it your masters score or undergrad gpa.

Secondly,

I graduated from a top 10 school with a 2.8 overall 2.7 science gpa with a bio major. I havent taken the DAT but have taken practice MCATS and scored in the 30-33 range. I plan on taking the DAT this August and will be applying to masters programs in the fall.

1. is there a formal list of masters programs that accept DAT scores?

2. what are my chances after finishing a Masters program?

3. I will be working at a Dental Office starting next week. Is there difference in if i Shadow or if I get paid at the office (as a dental assistant)? i plan on working there for at least a year full time.

thanks

no body can answer this with certainty since every school will be different. anecdotically, it seems schools put most emphasis on the undergrad GPA

your chances after finishing masters program are (IMO) still low because of the sub 2.8 undergrad GPAs

shadowing vs working = both serve the same purpose if one is only looking to gain exposure to the field. Thousands of applicants get accepted to dental schools each year, and most of them have only done a specific number of shadowing (no dental work experience whatsoever)

 

[sequential]

Adcom can careless which school you graduated from, unless they are comparing you with someone with the same stats.

Not true in this case. The fact that the OP's degree is from a top 10 school WILL make a difference here.

My suggestion for the OP is to buckle down and do really well on his DAT. If you score well, you may not need to do a master (granted you do your research and apply broadly).

 

[theoblivious7]

whats an op?

 

[dentalWorks]

Not true in this case. The fact that the OP's degree is from a top 10 school WILL make a difference here.

My suggestion for the OP is to buckle down and do really well on his DAT. If you score well, you may not need to do a master (granted you do your research and apply broadly).

No it will not. Schools take pride in reporting a high GPA for their entering class. Which institute the GPA was obtained from (under what major) are irrelevant factors.

 

[theoblivious7]

sorry one other question...if i take graduate level classes as a non-degree student, do these grades get factored into my undergrad gpa?

 

[Destiny11]

sorry one other question...if i take graduate level classes as a non-degree student, do these grades get factored into my undergrad gpa?

Graduate level courses will be counted as graduate GPA. You will have to indicate this on AADSAS.

 

[WastedTime]

They will look at your cumulative AADSAS GPA to meet the requirements, which will be undergrad + graduate GPA. However, since everyone supposedly do much better in the Masters program, your undergraduate GPA is unfortunately still a key factor used for comparison. Your chances will be better with than without a Master's Degree (heavy in science).

Adcom can careless which school you graduated from, unless they are comparing you with someone with the same stats.

Paid experiences > Shadowing

specifically, how much more is paid experience worth compared to shadowing?

 

[sequential]

No it will not. Schools take pride in reporting a high GPA for their entering class. Which institute the GPA was obtained from (under what major) are irrelevant factors.

I disagree. I personally know of a student who has gotten in at a school with a ~2.6 cum gpa (with great DAT and from a top ranked school). Despite his TERRIBLE GPA, the avg. GPA for his class was still 3.68. You have to understand, when publishing the stats for the incoming class, the schools not only publish the GPAs, but they also note the schools from which the students come from (e.g., Harvard vs. state college). And with the application pools being huge every yr....

I am far from suggesting this is the norm...because it is not. However, in the OP's case, the fact that he is from a top 10 school (with a bad...but not terrible GPA) can only help him. I feel the OP may be able to avoid having to invest time in getting a masters by doing well on the DAT to help validate his degree (e.g., difficulty of courses at his school).

To the OP, do some research, talk to schools you are interested in, and think of ways in which you can gear your application to stand out (based on the specific strengths of your application) from the other applicants (PM me if you need help with this).

Good luck

 

[camshaft]

No it will not. Schools take pride in reporting a high GPA for their entering class. Which institute the GPA was obtained from (under what major) are irrelevant factors.

While I agree in most cases, I wouldn't be quick to say never. Columbia has said they specifically look at the undergrad institution and how well past students from that university tended to perform through the program. During my interview at Columbia they made it pretty clear that they were interested in how I went from a 2.0 freshman year as a science major at Penn to doing 3.4's with a full time course load of all upper level sciences by the time I was a senior. After the interview I bumped into a dental student there who had also gotten a C in one of the Calc 3/linear algebra courses we took from the same professor at Penn.

 

[theoblivious7]

are there stats indicating the range of accepted GPAs into the dental school? Secondly are those stats purely undergrad gpa or are they a mix of undergrad and graduate school gpas?

Thanks for all the replies.

 

[theoblivious7]

I disagree. I personally know of a student who has gotten in at a school with a ~2.6 cum gpa (with great DAT and from a top ranked school). Despite his TERRIBLE GPA, the avg. GPA for his class was still 3.68. You have to understand, when publishing the stats for the incoming class, the schools not only publish the GPAs, but they also note the schools from which the students come from (e.g., Harvard vs. state college). And with the application pools being huge every yr....

I am far from suggesting this is the norm...because it is not. However, in the OP's case, the fact that he is from a top 10 school (with a bad...but not terrible GPA) can only help him. I feel the OP may be able to avoid having to invest time in getting a masters by doing well on the DAT to help validate his degree (e.g., difficulty of courses at his school).

To the OP, do some research, talk to schools you are interested in, and think of ways in which you can gear your application to stand out (based on the specific strengths of your application) from the other applicants (PM me if you need help with this).

Good luck

Are you in dental school currently? Isnt it a bit late for me to start applying now? I still need to get some shadowing/work experience (which I will get over the summer). From what i am understanding, my undergrad gpa regardless of the institution I graduated from is bad, and as a result I need to remedy this. however, is it better I take a masters program or do remedial post bac work to boost the undergrad gpa. This all ties into my first question "how is the gpa calculated for dental school when one has a masters and undergrad gpa to consider". It is confusing to me because I have seen a 2008 accepted range of gpa and DAT scores...are those all the scores that were accepted or are there special circumstances etc...

 

[dentalWorks]

approx 5000 applicants are accepted into dental schools each cycle.

I ask, how many do you think are from Ivy's and "big-named" universities? 100? 200? 500 (a stretch)?

Since the average acceptance GPS and sGPA is above 3.5 nation wide, its safe to assume MAJORITY of pre-dents nowadays are coming from non-big name universities and the one thing they have in common is: Their high GPA.

This concept that a low GPA is still given consideration due to difficult institute is just a myth. Sure there are a few universities who will look past a sub 3.0 GPA if the applicant is packing a serious DAT (Columbia comes to mind) but IN GENERAL:

High GPA from unknown college > 3.0 from big-named school

 

[jmt1984]

no body can answer this with certainty since every school will be different. anecdotically, it seems schools put most emphasis on the undergrad GPA

your chances after finishing masters program are (IMO) still low because of the sub 2.8 undergrad GPAs

This is very true, I can speak from personal experience. Good luck!

 

[sequential]

approx 5000 applicants are accepted into dental schools each cycle.

I ask, how many do you think are from Ivy's and "big-named" universities? 100? 200? 500 (a stretch)?

Since the average acceptance GPS and sGPA is above 3.5 nation wide, its safe to assume MAJORITY of pre-dents nowadays are coming from non-big name universities and the one thing they have in common is: Their high GPA.

This concept that a low GPA is still given consideration due to difficult institute is just a myth. Sure there are a few universities who will look past a sub 3.0 GPA if the applicant is packing a serious DAT (Columbia comes to mind) but IN GENERAL:

High GPA from unknown college > 3.0 from big-named school

It isn't just the Ivy League schools, there are MANY instances where schools will consider AND accept students with lower GPAs from places like CAL and UCLA...granted they've done well on their DAT. Do some searching on the forums and you can validate this claim.

Now is this the norm at all schools?...no. However, you've also got to realize that if you enroll into a Masters program, most schools will require you to finish the program. There are programs out there that can be completed in a yr, but also plenty of people who do not get accepted into schools after completing the masters. What then? I always felt as if doing a Masters would be a last resort...in cases where you would have no other way of improving your chances of acceptance.

Anyhow, I am already rambling on, so I'll stop. I just feel as if the OP does well on the DAT (which is a must even if he completes a Masters), he may have a shot at getting in at some schools. He just has to make sure to do his research, apply broadly, and gear his application so as to help him stand out as much as possible (e.g., there are definitely ways to help magnify his strengths, motivations, etc...you probably need some help with this).

Good luck

and yeah....I am currently a dental student.

 

[sequential]

"how is the gpa calculated for dental school when one has a masters and undergrad gpa to consider"

Both GPAs will be reported to schools, and both will be considered. Now the degree of importance placed on either will vary depending on the school. That is why you have to do your research in regards to the schools you apply to. But understand, if you do a Masters, you HAVE to do REALLY well (you don't want anything less than 3.8), especially in your case.

 

[theoblivious7]

Both GPAs will be reported to schools, and both will be considered. Now the degree of importance placed on either will vary depending on the school. That is why you have to do your research in regards to the schools you apply to. But understand, if you do a Masters, you HAVE to do REALLY well (you don't want anything less than 3.8), especially in your case.

what do you mean by reasearch sequential? From what i understand after calling the ADEA and calling a few schools. what you said is true, they look at both the undergrad and graduate gpa and then they make a composite score (from what I understand, this is reflective of the average gpa you see schools report)...

 

[dentalWorks]

It isn't just the Ivy League schools, there are MANY instances where schools will consider AND accept students with lower GPAs from places like CAL and UCLA...granted they've done well on their DAT. Do some searching on the forums and you can validate this claim.

Now is this the norm at all schools?...no. However, you've also got to realize that if you enroll into a Masters program, most schools will require you to finish the program. There are programs out there that can be completed in a yr, but also plenty of people who do not get accepted into schools after completing the masters. What then? I always felt as if doing a Masters would be a last resort...in cases where you would have no other way of improving your chances of acceptance.

Anyhow, I am already rambling on, so I'll stop. I just feel as if the OP does well on the DAT (which is a must even if he completes a Masters), he may have a shot at getting in at some schools. He just has to make sure to do his research, apply broadly, and gear his application so as to help him stand out as much as possible (e.g., there are definitely ways to help magnify his strengths, motivations, etc...you probably need some help with this).

Good luck

and yeah....I am currently a dental student.

well thats fine and I did touch up on the concept of High DAT maybe overshadowing a lower GPA.... but wer not one the same page here especially since the DAT is standardized (to a certain degree) amongst all applicants. Whether you have a 2.5 or 4.0 GPA, if you prepare right, you should score well.

I was STRICTLY talking about undergrad GPA. A low undergrad GPA (I don't care what institute you get it from) is exactly that: low GPA.

 

[sequential]

well thats fine and I did touch up on the concept of High DAT maybe overshadowing a lower GPA.... but wer not one the same page here especially since the DAT is standardized (to a certain degree) amongst all applicants. Whether you have a 2.5 or 4.0 GPA, if you prepare right, you should score well.

I was STRICTLY talking about undergrad GPA. A low undergrad GPA (I don't care what institute you get it from) is exactly that: low GPA.

We are definitely not in agreement regarding the weight the OP's GPA from a top 10 school merits. This isn't just a case of a high DAT potentially overshadowing a low GPA from a state school, A top 10 school is just that, a top 10 school...and he will get a second look/closer look at some schools just based on the name of the school. Now, as I mentioned, he will need to score well on the DAT regardless of wheather he applies with or without a Masters...that much is a given.

HOWEVER, the OP's case is a bit special in that if he does well on the DAT, it can serve to validate his degree from a top 10 school. It just may be enough to get him interviews at certain schools (hence my suggestions to research and apply broadly) without having to waste time and money on a Masters.

 

[dentalWorks]

We are definitely not in agreement regarding the weight the OP's GPA from a top 10 school merits. This isn't just a case of a high DAT potentially overshadowing a low GPA from a state school, A top 10 school is just that, a top 10 school...and he will get a second look/closer look at some schools just based on the name of the school. Now, as I mentioned, he will need to score well on the DAT regardless of wheather he applies with or without a Masters...that much is a given.

HOWEVER, the OP's case is a bit special in that if he does well on the DAT, it can serve to validate his degree from a top 10 school. It just may be enough to get him interviews at certain schools (hence my suggestions to research and apply broadly) without having to waste time and money on a Masters.

If you visit some schools websites, you'll see alot of them specify that the average GPA of matriculated class was 3.5 (or sometimes 3.6).... they sometimes even include "a minimum GPA of 3.0" or "minimum of 3.2" is highly recommended. In no website (nor when you talk to them in person) do they say or even hint "well, if you have a sub 3.0 from a major university, we'll give you extra considerations".

I hope you don't argue that a top-10 university applicant can't bust out a respectable GPA. For every 3.0 applicant (whether it be from MIT or some bunker hill college) you'll find another 3.5+ applicant from that same university. This is my driving point: a low GPA from ANY university is looked upon negatively because I am willing to bet, you'll find another applicant, from that same school with higher GPA.

When you have 2000-4000 applicants applying for 100-or-so seats, believe me, they are itching for an excuse to reject you

 

[sequential]

If you visit some schools websites, you'll see alot of them specify that the average GPA of matriculated class was 3.5 (or sometimes 3.6).... they sometimes even include "a minimum GPA of 3.0" or "minimum of 3.2" is highly recommended. In no website (nor when you talk to them in person) do they say or even hint "well, if you have a sub 3.0 from a major university, we'll give you extra considerations".

I hope you don't argue that a top-10 university applicant can't bust out a respectable GPA. For every 3.0 applicant (whether it be from MIT or some bunker hill college) you'll find another 3.5+ applicant from that same university. This is my driving point: a low GPA from ANY university is looked upon negatively because I am willing to bet, you'll find another applicant, from that same school with higher GPA.

When you have 2000-4000 applicants applying for 100-or-so seats, believe me, they are itching for an excuse to reject you

This works both ways, schools are able to accept sub 3.0 applicants and still have the entering class GPA come out to 3.68 (as I've mentioned above).

My original post was based on what I've personally seen happen, not what I've simply read on here. I've seen applicants with sub 3.0 GPAs with degrees from high ranked schools get accepted. I also know for a fact, that schools (including mine) consider and keep track of the schools from which their accepted students come from.

Again, I disagree with you completely and we have given differing advise to the OP. I say do well on the DAT and if so, consider applying without a Masters, you have told him that even with a Masters, his chances will remain low because of his undergrad GPA (you don't think schools who view his GPA as being low would recommend he do well and complete a grad degree?)....

To the OP, do some searching on the forum, call/meet with schools you are interested in....good luck with whatever you decide to do!

 

[bing12]

Hi all,

If you do a masters program, does that become the new minimum gpa that dental schools look at? For example, I have a 2.8 undergrad gpa but if I do a masters program and get a 4.0 (some really good score), how does that get weighted in terms of my application? I know that they become two separate gpa's but when you see the minimum gpa application requirements (or average gpa ranges), is it your masters score or undergrad gpa.

Secondly,

I graduated from a top 10 school with a 2.8 overall 2.7 science gpa with a bio major. I havent taken the DAT but have taken practice MCATS and scored in the 30-33 range. I plan on taking the DAT this August and will be applying to masters programs in the fall.

1. is there a formal list of masters programs that accept DAT scores?

1 year programs that accept the DAT

1) TULANE: http://tulane.edu/sse/cmb/msfaqs.cfm

2) Boston University :
http://www.bumc.bu.edu/gms/academics/masters-in-medical-sciences/

3) Roslyn and Franklyn university :
http://www.rosalindfranklin.edu/dnn/chp/home/CHP/IHS/Biomed/Admission/tabid/1764/Default.aspx

4) Drexel University College of Medicine:
http://www.drexelmed.edu/Home/Acade...nterdepartmentalMedicalScienceIMSProgram.aspx

Western University:
http://prospective.westernu.edu/medical-sciences/welcome

2. what are my chances after finishing a Masters program?

ur chances would be better, I personally wouldn't bank of doing GREAT on the DAT ( no one should), its just a gamble. i say do a masters to be on the safer side because if you dont get in this cycle ( or dont do as well as you thought you would on the DAT), you will certainly have a better chance ( if u do well in masters program) do get in the next cycle).

3. I will be working at a Dental Office starting next week. Is there difference in if i Shadow or if I get paid at the office (as a dental assistant)? i plan on working there for at least a year full time.

I dont think theres a difference, you are getting dental experience either way.

thanks

Good luck

 

[dentalWorks]

This works both ways, schools are able to accept sub 3.0 applicants and still have the entering class GPA come out to 3.68 (as I've mentioned above).

My original post was based on what I've personally seen happen, not what I've simply read on here. I've seen applicants with sub 3.0 GPAs with degrees from high ranked schools get accepted. I also know for a fact, that schools (including mine) consider and keep track of the schools from which their accepted students come from.

Again, I disagree with you completely and we have given differing advise to the OP. I say do well on the DAT and if so, consider applying without a Masters, you have told him that even with a Masters, his chances will remain low because of his undergrad GPA (you don't think schools who view his GPA as being low would recommend he do well and complete a grad degree?)....

To the OP, do some searching on the forum, call/meet with schools you are interested in....good luck with whatever you decide to do!

Im one who always enjoys a healthy debate....however

You keep missing my points. I am not here "advising" the OP about his chances, I am giving him my predictions based on god-knows how many hours I've spent researching and talking to fellow pre-dents. If you want more statistical evidence that a below-3.0 sGPA is NORMALLY not masked by a high master's performance, I implore you to do some research on predents.com and seek out such individuals. Yes predents isn't the most representative, but its got far more individuals than the few you've "personally seen"

This concept that the OP NEEDS a high DAT is great, however, not many people go into prometric and walk out with 23s+ (which is what I am PREDICTING he'll need to offset a 2.7 sGPA ~ and even then, I am inclinde to think he'll have a hard time landing interviews)

IMO, OP's chances are low, this is a response for the:
"what are my chances after finishing a Masters program? "
If he woulda asked masters vs post-bacc, I woulda given him a different response.

anyways, this is going offtopic.... Your initial post suggested his 2.7 sGPA from "a top 10 school WILL make a difference here".... and I highly disagree.

 

[camshaft]

If you visit some schools websites, you'll see alot of them specify that the average GPA of matriculated class was 3.5 (or sometimes 3.6).... they sometimes even include "a minimum GPA of 3.0" or "minimum of 3.2" is highly recommended. In no website (nor when you talk to them in person) do they say or even hint "well, if you have a sub 3.0 from a major university, we'll give you extra considerations".

Obviously they couldn't post something like that on their site because it would spark a controversy over what constitutes a more difficult university. As I said, Columbia specifically said during my interview there that they consider the difficulty of your university, and that they are hesitant to accept students from universities they've never taken students from before because they have no measure of how difficult it was for the student to attain that GPA. They said if they've accepted students from a given university before with GPAs on the lower end, but those students then did really well in their dental school, they're much more likely to accept other students from that school even if their GPA wasn't that high. I got the strong feeling this is partly why they interviewed me (male, non-URM) with a 2.75 undergrad GPA while in the midst of a masters.

I hope you don't argue that a top-10 university applicant can't bust out a respectable GPA. For every 3.0 applicant (whether it be from MIT or some bunker hill college) you'll find another 3.5+ applicant from that same university. This is my driving point: a low GPA from ANY university is looked upon negatively because I am willing to bet, you'll find another applicant, from that same school with higher GPA.

Obviously I've only gone to one undergraduate school, so I can only comment on that, but I know that within certain majors or schools at Penn this isn't the case. Penn's engineering school for example is known to have the lowest average GPA, and one year the freshman engineering GPA average was a 2.7. The students are still successful after graduating because the GPA isn't looked at quite the same way as for dental school apps, but the unspoken word is that if you decide to do something other than engineering get out as soon as you can before the school GPA ruins your chances for anything else.

Most of my upper level math, physics, and bio classes at Penn were graded on a bell-curve, with the mean set to a B- (B if the prof. was nice). If you think of the structure of a bell curve, you'll see that for everyone getting a 3.0 there is certainly not another person getting a 3.5. In my Physics class on fluids and complex harmonics, the professor specifically said to us that he rarely gives out any A's in his class, and personally congratulated my roommate on being one such person.

The amount of studying that got me a D+ on my linear algebra final got me the 5th highest score in the dental school on UMDNJ's oral immunology final last month. So yes, I think some undergrad school majors make it very hard to pull a respectable GPA. Even to this day I don't think I could get A's in some of those classes being graded against those kids. I still can't believe how smart some of them were.

 

[dentalWorks]

Obviously they couldn't post something like that on their site because it would spark a controversy over what constitutes a more difficult university. As I said, Columbia specifically said during my interview there that they consider the difficulty of your university, and that they are hesitant to accept students from universities they've never taken students from before because they have no measure of how difficult it was for the student to attain that GPA. They said if they've accepted students from a given university before with GPAs on the lower end, but those students then did really well in their dental school, they're much more likely to accept other students from that school even if their GPA wasn't that high. I got the strong feeling this is partly why they interviewed me (male, non-URM) with a 2.75 undergrad GPA while in the midst of a masters.



Obviously I've only gone to one undergraduate school, so I can only comment on that, but I know that within certain majors or schools at Penn this isn't the case. Penn's engineering school for example is known to have the lowest average GPA, and one year the freshman engineering GPA average was a 2.7. The students are still successful after graduating because the GPA isn't looked at quite the same way as for dental school apps, but the unspoken word is that if you decide to do something other than engineering get out as soon as you can before the school GPA ruins your chances for anything else.

Most of my upper level math, physics, and bio classes at Penn were graded on a bell-curve, with the mean set to a B- (B if the prof. was nice). If you think of the structure of a bell curve, you'll see that for everyone getting a 3.0 there is certainly not another person getting a 3.5. In my Physics class on fluids and complex harmonics, the professor specifically said to us that he rarely gives out any A's in his class, and personally congratulated my roommate on being one such person.

The amount of studying that got me a D+ on my linear algebra final got me the 5th highest score in the dental school on UMDNJ's oral immunology final last month. So yes, I think some undergrad school majors make it very hard to pull a respectable GPA. Even to this day I don't think I could get A's in some of those classes being graded against those kids. I still can't believe how smart some of them were.

I understand what your saying.... but your using a few very specific examples to proof that the ENTIRE system runs this way.... and unfortunately thats not/never gonna be the case.

I am not gonna ask about engineering at Penn. But you are seriosly telling me, of all the pre-dents and pre-meds at Penn, not a single one was able to achieve a 3.5? NOT EVEN ONE?? Here is the bottom line, a 3.0 GPA easier to obtain than a 3.5 (what a shocker). Yes I will admit, certain professors are harder than others, and it sometimes isn't "fair", but thats the way it works. People with low stats ON AVERAGE aren't at the same competitive edge than those with higher stats (same or different institute).

You misunderstood my point (or perhaps I didn't explain it well) about the 3.0 + 3.5 applicant from the same university. You just described the bell curve, and you are right, you'll see alot of 3.0 applicants, and if you have a large enough pool, maybe for every 10 3.0 applicants, you'll find 1 with a 3.5+.... Since there are VERY limited number of seats available at each dental school, the 3.5 will be given much greater consideration.

Gaining admission into dental school is LARGELY a numbers game. Anyone who thinks there are other factors that weight in just as heavily (difficulty of institute, LORs, Personal statements, undergrad major, etc) is largely mistaken.

To OP ~ I apologize for letting this get outta hand. I hope you can read between the opinions and decide for yourself...... all the best

 

[camshaft]

Dentalworks, all your points in the last post I agree with.

I understand what your saying.... but your using a few very specific examples to proof that the ENTIRE system runs this way.... and unfortunately thats not/never gonna be the case.

Yes, I wasn't trying to describe the entire system. That's why I started by saying I can only comment on my one school. I was simply saying that in some situations it's harder to get a better GPA, and I think there exist a few dental schools who recognize that.

I am not gonna ask about engineering at Penn. But you are seriosly telling me, of all the pre-dents and pre-meds at Penn, not a single one was able to achieve a 3.5? NOT EVEN ONE?? Here is the bottom line, a 3.0 GPA easier to obtain than a 3.5 (what a shocker). Yes I will admit, certain professors are harder than others, and it sometimes isn't "fair", but thats the way it works. People with low stats ON AVERAGE aren't at the same competitive edge than those with higher stats (same or different institute).

You misunderstood my point (or perhaps I didn't explain it well) about the 3.0 + 3.5 applicant from the same university. You just described the bell curve, and you are right, you'll see alot of 3.0 applicants, and if you have a large enough pool, maybe for every 10 3.0 applicants, you'll find 1 with a 3.5+.... Since there are VERY limited number of seats available at each dental school, the 3.5 will be given much greater consideration.

Yes, I agree here too. Earlier up you had said for ever one 3.0 there is one 3.5, which is what I disagreed with. There are definitely 3.5's; I was simply saying, as you did here, that in some cases the 3.0's are much more common.

Gaining admission into dental school is LARGELY a numbers game. Anyone who thinks there are other factors that weight in just as heavily (difficulty of institute, LORs, Personal statements, undergrad major, etc) is largely mistaken.

To OP ~ I apologize for letting this get outta hand. I hope you can read between the opinions and decide for yourself...... all the best

Agreed also. I don't think the institution weighs nearly as heavily as the GPA, but I have reasons to believe it counts for something.

 

[Potatochips]

I understand what your saying.... but your using a few very specific examples to proof that the ENTIRE system runs this way.... and unfortunately thats not/never gonna be the case.

I am not gonna ask about engineering at Penn. But you are seriosly telling me, of all the pre-dents and pre-meds at Penn, not a single one was able to achieve a 3.5? NOT EVEN ONE?? Here is the bottom line, a 3.0 GPA easier to obtain than a 3.5 (what a shocker). Yes I will admit, certain professors are harder than others, and it sometimes isn't "fair", but thats the way it works. People with low stats ON AVERAGE aren't at the same competitive edge than those with higher stats (same or different institute).

You misunderstood my point (or perhaps I didn't explain it well) about the 3.0 + 3.5 applicant from the same university. You just described the bell curve, and you are right, you'll see alot of 3.0 applicants, and if you have a large enough pool, maybe for every 10 3.0 applicants, you'll find 1 with a 3.5+.... Since there are VERY limited number of seats available at each dental school, the 3.5 will be given much greater consideration.

Gaining admission into dental school is LARGELY a numbers game. Anyone who thinks there are other factors that weight in just as heavily (difficulty of institute, LORs, Personal statements, undergrad major, etc) is largely mistaken.

To OP ~ I apologize for letting this get outta hand. I hope you can read between the opinions and decide for yourself...... all the best

If you are studying in some random state college, you would be competing against your classmates who had sub par 3.0 GPAs (probably even lower ) from high school. Would it be the same for Upenn? I am pretty sure at least half of them had competitive 4.4+ GPAs with more than 8 AP classes with outstanding SAT scores.

If you manage to average every single test, you end up with average B- grade on your transcript which will result 2.8 GPA. You can say that cumulative GPA of 2.8 is not competitive for dental school but guess what? 2.8 is still an average gpa from kids who never had single B in their high school transcript. I have seen numerous people from CAL who ended up with 2.0 GPA in their freshman year, moved to some private institution and graduating with 4.0 GPA.

 

[camshaft]

1. is there a formal list of masters programs that accept DAT scores?

Sorry, I forgot to add to Bing12's list that UMDNJ's masters also accepts DAT scores. It's organized as a 3-semester masters, but you can do it in 11 months as I did.