Did anyone match at a program that you didn't do an away rotation? If so, can you tell me where? Thanks.
matching at places where you didnt do an elective
- Thread starter keforce
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I think at any given location (be it top tiered or otherwise) you're going to find that the majority of the incoming residents DID NOT do an away there. Few places (maybe MDACC?) give courtesy interviews to all those who rotated. In fact, I would venture to say a safer bet is to do an away at a top tiered place that won't necessarily end up 1, 2, or 3 on the ROL. There are risks inherent in aways; you might rub someone the wrong way and hurt your chances at a place that you would've ranked #1. If you're a competitive candidate otherwise, I'd say you'll get the interview regardless of whether you do an away.
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noticed that you're an MD-PhD which will put you at an advantage but not necessarily. Most of us have the MD without a dual degree; however, a lot of the top places such as Anderson still took a lot of MDs only this year though Harvard, Stanford, UCSF, and MSKCC all took a bunch of MD-PhDs.
Away rotations can be tricky, and some programs such as Stanford and others will definitely not interview all of their rotators. They do not necessarily give courtesty interviews to everyone and see a candidate who looks good on paper but rubbed maybe just one attending wrong as someone they do not necessarily need to interview.
Agree with above. I matched at a place that I did not rotate at, and I think that it's probably true for a lot of the others who matched at some of the other top programs.
If you can be amazing during your entire away rotation and you're pretty certain you get along with most everyone, it's not a bad idea to do an away rotation at your number one.
I would suggest, like many of these other threads, to do 2 aways. One at a reach (not your number one reach) and one that's at your level (maybe your number one for this tier).
I would suggest you search some of the other threads talking about number of away rotations.
Also, much like asking point blank where someone matched, I doubt someone will answer your question without some degree of anonymity (such as impressions account). Even then, I'm not sure.
For many of the up and coming programs (maybe top 10 in the next few years), an away rotation will make a very strong impression on them. I know for my home program, of the candidates who matched all had either rotated through or were internal (and our program is considered an up and comer).
Away rotations can be tricky, and some programs such as Stanford and others will definitely not interview all of their rotators. They do not necessarily give courtesty interviews to everyone and see a candidate who looks good on paper but rubbed maybe just one attending wrong as someone they do not necessarily need to interview.
Agree with above. I matched at a place that I did not rotate at, and I think that it's probably true for a lot of the others who matched at some of the other top programs.
If you can be amazing during your entire away rotation and you're pretty certain you get along with most everyone, it's not a bad idea to do an away rotation at your number one.
I would suggest, like many of these other threads, to do 2 aways. One at a reach (not your number one reach) and one that's at your level (maybe your number one for this tier).
I would suggest you search some of the other threads talking about number of away rotations.
Also, much like asking point blank where someone matched, I doubt someone will answer your question without some degree of anonymity (such as impressions account). Even then, I'm not sure.
For many of the up and coming programs (maybe top 10 in the next few years), an away rotation will make a very strong impression on them. I know for my home program, of the candidates who matched all had either rotated through or were internal (and our program is considered an up and comer).
To give a snapshot of one program:
Currently, 5/7 residents did a rotation at our program (Indiana University). However, this is likely a fluke, as the 3 previous residents and the 2 residents starting in July did not do rotations at our institution prior to matching (making the number 5/12). If you count the two just matched (1/2 did a rotation here), then 6/13 or ~50% of applicants who matched here over the past several years did a rotation here.
Currently, 5/7 residents did a rotation at our program (Indiana University). However, this is likely a fluke, as the 3 previous residents and the 2 residents starting in July did not do rotations at our institution prior to matching (making the number 5/12). If you count the two just matched (1/2 did a rotation here), then 6/13 or ~50% of applicants who matched here over the past several years did a rotation here.
Thank you for the reply. The information has been very helpful. I didn't mean to be rude by asking where people matched etc. I meant for the reply to have some levels of anonymity so that I can get an impression of what the chances are of getting into a place without having done an away rotation, or even how much more advantageous it may be. Anyway, thanks for the info.
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Don't think that that is a very good idea, potentially misleading. I did not match at the place that I did an away, but I was granted an interview there, found it to be a very strong program and a good place to rotate at, and know the letter I got from that program contributed to me matching at a program higher on my ranklist.
I think what you're getting at is valid though. I think the question you want to ask is "What programs are good to rotate at (for matching and/or letter purposes) vs. what programs are known to not necessarily even interview their rotators?"
For example, I know MDACC matched at least 2 MD-only candidates that rotated there. On the other hand, I know UCSF did not even interview one of their rotators who was very well-liked (and matched at) the other top 5 program that they rotated at (obviously strong candidate).
While this is an isolated example, I personally would draw one conclusion from stories I heard on the interview trail: I think it is best to do an away at a place that has big-names, but may be in the position where they have to sell themselves to you a bit. Programs like UTSW (new program), Wisconsin (cold), CCF, Yale, WashU, Beaumont, Florida (small town) etc, that are not so geographically desirable might not be thinking "we know we're gonna match whoever we want" and might be a little kinder to people who show interest by rotating there. These types of places all have excellent faculty for letter purposes as well. Penn, UCSF, Harvard, Stanford, UWash, U of C, & MSKCC can pretty well assume they will be in the top couple spots on a ranklist for anyone they interview (and for good reason, great programs in awesome locations).
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Everyone seems to talk about how important it is to do an away rotation at a big name place for the purposes of getting a letter. Is WashU in St. Louis considered a "big enough" place? Or must we definitely go for MD Anderson and Memorial Sloan-Kettering?
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I came across very few people on the trail who had actually done away rotations at MDACC or MSK. I heard the same thing last year about "big name" institutions and it seems to me that most people this year did aways at programs they would like to match at and at least one of those being a place that they could get a good letter. There are a good number of academic institutions outside of these 2 programs that have well-known chairs, etc. that people seem to have gotten good letters from. I would think Wash U would be a great place to do an away reputation wise. But that's just my 2 cents. 
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I did an away rotation at WashU, and did get an interview there (likely a "courtesy interview" based on who else I knew that did/didn't interview there). Anyways, I thought it was a very good month, and I got two letters of recommendation out of it as well.
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
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I totally agree. It might be better to do away rotations where attendings are actually interested in medical student education (like the places you listed), and where people don't treat you like scut monkeys. I personally know medical students who rotated at a big-name institution and were treated like crap, did not get interviews there, did not get LOR's from there, and got nothing out of it. These students matched in top programs regardless, so the whole rotation was a waste of time for them. Just my two cents.
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dont downplay good letters. it helps. Ideally one can be an "audition rotation" and the other a reach where you can at least get good letters if you do well.
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Sorry to bump an old thread but I have the same question.
I am scheduled to do an away at a big name place. I am debating weither to do 1 or 2 other aways in addition to my home program. I want to get some letters at the big name place. I am wondering if my away will help or hurt me....
I am scheduled to do an away at a big name place. I am debating weither to do 1 or 2 other aways in addition to my home program. I want to get some letters at the big name place. I am wondering if my away will help or hurt me....
D
deleted254819
No away rotation will hurt you unless you act like a jackass. As has been previously noted, hard work, modesty, and a willing can-do attitude (but not to the point of annoyance) will always reflect well on you. If you're an extremely competitive candidate, maybe having big name LORs is less important, but nonetheless it can't hurt. It's a small field and word of mouth carries a long way, so if you can develop a rapport with a well-connected faculty member who can make phone calls for you, that probably trumps most LORs.
As for previous questions on this thread, I only interviewed at 1 of the 3 places I did away rotations, but nonetheless think the LORs I got from those were extremely beneficial, especially since my other 2 letters were from my home programs. I ended up matching at basically my top choice (i couples matched so its complicated), a great place at which I didn't rotate, so based on my positive experience I would certainly recommend trying to diversify your application (in terms of types of projects and LORs from rad onc faculty) as much as possible.
