Matching For American Students Studying In Europe

[slight365]

I didn't post this in Europe due to the non-trad nature of my path, and also felt this didn't exactly fit there due to this being an American and not European issue.

I'm currently in a well regarded University in Germany, will come out as a Dr. Med, which means there is recognition for a 5th year thesis in the program that offers some advantages in the US, such as research and post-doc positions, and an additional qualification on the resume.

The program is about 6 years total, and follows the "Harvard format" and has associations with them as well.

I can take Step 1 here and will likely do so around 2011 or 2012.

Also of note: I live here, not just live here for schooling. I'm also in my early thirties now.

I'm hearing several things, and such things from former advisors on committees in the US that residencies are not going to be a problem. One interesting feature is that there are actual grades given for courses here and not a pass/fail. This is something that my girlfriend was very successful with in getting positions in the US and physician positions in the US, as she had straight A's.

I was hoping to hear direct experiences from those who have gone through this process already. I know for a fact that the matching is not across the board biased against foreign students, with specificity to Western Europe schools in world standings.

I have time to figure out the path I will go in and plan accordingly, with respect to the path I start to choose at the end.

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[nontrdgsbuiucmd]

OK so it's been over 24 hrs since this was posted w/no replies; I'm adding my .02 as this seems a situation unique enough that there may not be many readers who can contribute as having gone through this situation personally..

Couple things to share from a close relative who went through an MD program in the US --

1) pass/fail schools (at least the one they attended which is one of the largest in the US) still give grades. And per this person, if you want to get into a competitive, sought after residency, it is important to earn top grades from the beginning.

2) many things in medicine depend on familiarity -- who will refer you to the program that you want to get into? If you or the program you are participating in has ties to the residency program, program director, etc that you want to get into, you should be in good shape.

Most likely some residency program directors will be familiar with your program, others will not. Ask an american how good INSEAD or LSE is.. some will know, many won't. And these are two of the top grad programs in their field.

best of luck

 

[dragonfly99]

There are too many variables here for anyone on here to be able to answer your question.
For one thing, I am unclear about whether you are a US citizen vs. not.
We also don't know your USMLE Step 1 score (probably you'd need step 2 and step2 CS as well to match?) which is very important for people who go to foreign schools.

If you are asking whether your application will be held in higher regard than someone from one of the shadier Caribbean med schools, since you are from a good German university, then the answer is "yes". But you should not expect that you will be on an even playing field with a similar student attending Harvard or Johns Hopkins med schools. For many people, your German medical school education is still somewhat of an unknown quantity, and many US residency programs just prefer US trained people (just like I presume the German hospitals would prefer German trained students).

I do not think that obtaining a US residency in one of the less competitive fields (internal medicine, pediatrics, family practice, pathology, neurology, physical medicine/rehab and a few others) would be a problem currently, assuming you do average or better on the USMLE test and have a good performance at your German medical school. Particularly if you are US citizen I feel like you'd be a shoe-in to get in SOMEWHERE. Just keep in mind that if you are only interested in prestigious university programs in popular US cities like New York, Chicago, LA, etc. you might end up disappointed. Also keep in mind that US medical schools are increasing their enrollments right now, which potentially will make getting a residency spot harder in the future (especially for foreign trained docs) as there are going to be more US trained medical students graduating a few years from now and probably not more residency positions.

Having said all this, I did residency ata fairly prestigious internal med program in the US and they have accepted occasional foreign students (usually about 1 per year of a class of 30 or more interns) and almost always these were from European medical schools. I do think that some of the European med schools (and probably India and Pakistan also) do have more respect among some program directors vs. a random med school in another country, or perhaps some of the Caribbean med schools.

 

[dragonfly99]

p.s. Be a little bit careful when talking to older US attendings who tell you that getting a residency here in the US will not be a problem. I think it is getting a bit harder now, and likely to get a little harder yet. US med schools for a while had capped their admissions, but now they've gone into expansion phase. Also, residencies were expanding I think a few years ago, but now they aren't expanding as much. I think a lot of this depends on the field you want...getting neurosurgery, urology or dermatology I think would be quite difficult for you, no matter how strong your application. A lot of it depends on the field of medicine you want to enter.

 

[atomi]

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[Law2Doc]

p.s. Be a little bit careful when talking to older US attendings who tell you that getting a residency here in the US will not be a problem. I think it is getting a bit harder now, and likely to get a little harder yet. US med schools for a while had capped their admissions, but now they've gone into expansion phase. Also, residencies were expanding I think a few years ago, but now they aren't expanding as much. I think a lot of this depends on the field you want...getting neurosurgery, urology or dermatology I think would be quite difficult for you, no matter how strong your application. A lot of it depends on the field of medicine you want to enter.

Agreed -- the odds are getting longer for non-US folks every year now. Should be no problem coming from a well regarded european place to a non-competitive field as of now, but if you are shooting for a competitive field, you are going to have to apply nationwide and have a back up. And I agree your Steps probably need to be better than US students to get the same consideration.

 

[slight365]

In reference to a question above, YES, I am a US citizen.

I won't be able to make a real decision on coming back home for some time. If opportunities and living conditions here present themselves, I'll certainly stay.

I was considering an area of surgery, however I don't know how well physicians trained in surgery match.

I realize my situation is very unique and presents pros and cons, with respect to matching and area or practice.

 

[jcb]

hello! I am a long-time lurker of this forum, but I had to reply to this. I'm in the exact same situation as you, only I'm in med school in Sweden. I haven't met anyone who was doing what I'm doing, and I was so excited to see your post! I also don't know if/when I'll be back in the US, but have started thinking (more like worrying) about taking the boards and matching.

Maybe we can help each other along the way!

 

[slight365]

Yep, hopefully.

The reason I posted here was because I had friends some years ago that went to Europe for various reasons, from financial to wanting an international experience. Several of them made very high positions after coming back, but sadly, I lost contact with several of them over the last few years, as they no doubt got busier and busier. I looked up two of them and they have very high dollar practices as well.

So there is hope. While the stats show lower probability for matching, the advice is to be a top candidate like they were.

I also asked because I have to plan out the remainder of my path according to what can work in more places throughout the world.