Hello Everyone. I am interested in EM and wanted to get an idea of the type of applicant (Step 1 score, research, pre-clinical/clinical grades) that matches into the top EM residencies? I am using Doximity to get an idea of the top EM residencies in the country.
Matching into a top EM Residency?
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Don't.
Agree, don't use Doxmity. PD's are in agreement, it should not be used and they are telling the residents and new applicants to not do their survey's or use them in considering their programs.
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Doximity will give you a good idea of what are generally considered the more reputable programs (the ones listed in the top 30 or so), but the specific order of the rankings themselves are meaningless and have been denounced by ABEM. So I think you're actually better off not looking at Doximity. You should talk to your advisor about your goals and where you want to be geographically to determine which ones you should shoot for.
But based on my own experience and knowing what some of my classmates and friends from other medical schools applied with, top programs generally select top candidates (obvs):
Step 1 score generally >/= 240
Research is nice but definitely not a prereq. May be more highly desired at the big academic centers (although I matched at a big academic program with zero research)
Pre-clinical grades less important but will affect your classrank at most schools and having a good rank on your dean's letter can be a big plus if you're AOA.
Clinical grades: HONORS in EM rotations, HONORS in away rotations are practically a requirement at these programs. They can easily select to interview only the candidates who have honored their EM rotations, so this is important. Also, honors in third year clerkships is desired, but not necessarily a death sentence to your app if you only have high passes, provided you honored your EM stuff.
SLOEs: Probably tied closely with clinical grades/away rotation performance. This, I believe, is the most important aspect of your app. It will tell program directors how your program thinks of you and ranks you against the rest of your classmates, and what other programs think of you and how you perform in new environments with new people.
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Listsearch all you want. Everyone on here knows that THE best residency is...
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Sigh... In-n-out burger
Here's a quote from a PD on the subject of the rankings.
"As you can see from the email below, Doximity is contacting EM program directors asking them to provide contact information for residents and recent alumni. Doximity then contacts physicians across the country and invites them to “submit nominations” (vote for their favorite programs) by opening a Doximity account and entering their vote. This is a rather obvious ploy to build membership, and represents a contest to see which residency program can mobilize the most residents and alumni rather than a legitimate comparison of strengths and weaknesses. We find this to be misleading to medical students and to the general public, divisive to the academic EM community and deeply flawed from a methodological standpoint. As you can see from the attached letter, virtually all national EM organizations requested that US News & World Report refrain from publishing this sort of junk science last year, to no avail"
"As you can see from the email below, Doximity is contacting EM program directors asking them to provide contact information for residents and recent alumni. Doximity then contacts physicians across the country and invites them to “submit nominations” (vote for their favorite programs) by opening a Doximity account and entering their vote. This is a rather obvious ploy to build membership, and represents a contest to see which residency program can mobilize the most residents and alumni rather than a legitimate comparison of strengths and weaknesses. We find this to be misleading to medical students and to the general public, divisive to the academic EM community and deeply flawed from a methodological standpoint. As you can see from the attached letter, virtually all national EM organizations requested that US News & World Report refrain from publishing this sort of junk science last year, to no avail"
They are completely bogus. Word needs to be spread about how these rankings are compiled.
From the same message:
"This year, in advance of another Doximity survey, EM programs across the country have communicated via the program directors’ listserv. The vast majority of EM programs (including ___ ) have agreed not to participate. Any results released this year will therefore be even less valid. In solidarity with our EM residency programs and colleagues throughout the country, we urge you to not respond to the survey and also urge you to consider discontinuing your membership to Doximity in support of this. Please communicate this stance with any medical students for whom you may serve as mentor."
Med students, let your friends know that the "rankings" are NO way to choose where to apply.
From the same message:
"This year, in advance of another Doximity survey, EM programs across the country have communicated via the program directors’ listserv. The vast majority of EM programs (including ___ ) have agreed not to participate. Any results released this year will therefore be even less valid. In solidarity with our EM residency programs and colleagues throughout the country, we urge you to not respond to the survey and also urge you to consider discontinuing your membership to Doximity in support of this. Please communicate this stance with any medical students for whom you may serve as mentor."
Med students, let your friends know that the "rankings" are NO way to choose where to apply.
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Is F_ _ _ _ M_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ still the PD at that program?
D
deleted547339
Can I get a T?
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How many residency programs does one apply to, on average, for good chances to match at one of the top EM programs?
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F _ T T _ M _ _ _ T T _ _ _ _ T _
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100 million
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Umm... you're sure you want to go into EM? Go visit an ED, take a deep breath around some of the homeless frequent flyers and the GI bleeders and let us know if you're still curious about EM. Either way, this isn't the time or place to ask this question. Ask your peers in a year or two. In the meantime, go study for step 1.
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It just depends on your numbers, SLORS, and overall competitiveness.
It doesn't hurt to apply broadly and then turn down interviews if you find yourself getting more than you can handle.
It doesn't hurt to apply broadly and then turn down interviews if you find yourself getting more than you can handle.
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Wet gangrene FTW.
Seriously, the best thing a MS1-2 can do to get into EM is score well on Step 1. Then do well in classes. For the MS3, score well on your core rotations. For the MS4, do well on your sub-I(s). Maybe do Step II CK. Apply and interview at a bunch of places.
That's it.
Clearly top 7
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Top Eleventeen.
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Top Eleventy
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ooh ooh... how about an A???
(And the answer is that In-N-Out will always be ranked highest, regardless of who does the survey. Their fry fellowship is the best in in the nation, FWIW.)
(And the answer is that In-N-Out will always be ranked highest, regardless of who does the survey. Their fry fellowship is the best in in the nation, FWIW.)
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I remember posting on here as a resident, asking for someone to explain the in-n-out joke to me.
Christ, that seems like aaaaages ago.
I have still never eaten an in-n-out burger.
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September 12, 2014 Mr. Ben Harder Managing Editor and Director Health Care Analysis US News & World Report 105 Thomas Jefferson Street, NW Washington, DC 20007
Dear Mr. Harder: As leaders of the top organizations representing emergency medicine, we have been contacted by scores of emergency physicians from around the country about a survey being conducted by U.S. News & World Report and Doximity. We appreciate your recognition of emergency medicine as an academic medical specialty with a unique core of knowledge and robust research agenda.
However, we are concerned about the sampling method chosen for this survey, because we believe it will fail to achieve your objective for this survey — to identify America’s top emergency medicine training programs. Asking only physicians enrolled in a social media website to nominate their five most preferred residencies will result in egregious sample bias and is not capable of resulting in a scientifically valid result. The results will be based solely upon opinions expressed by physicians who have no firsthand knowledge of any residency training programs other than the ones they attended themselves.
While not a formal ranking of residency programs, the results would convey that some programs provide better training than others. However, given the limitations, this would not be an accurate portrayal — to medical students or to the public. It also would not be useful to many medical students, because research shows that more than 75 percent of emergency physician residents report the number one reason for selecting a residency program is geography.
More concerning, the results could send a dangerous public health message to people with medical emergencies. It implies they should consider bypassing hospital emergency departments with residency programs that fared poorly in the survey. In a medical emergency, people should seek emergency care at the nearest emergency department, not one that scored better on a highly subjective opinion survey.
Patients need confidence in their physicians in times of crisis, especially since comparison shopping among doctors is not an option when someone is having a medical emergency. Emergency medicine residency programs train physicians in the emergent and acute conditions of just about every medical specialty in health care. As a result, emergency physicians are uniquely qualified to handle a full range of adult and pediatric emergencies. In addition, they see every kind of human drama imaginable, often treating multiple patients at a time.
The overall quality of medical care delivered in emergency departments in the United States is excellent, thanks to the uniformly high standards that govern the accreditation of residency programs in emergency medicine. Emergency medicine residencies collaborate openly with shared curricular tools built around a core model of clinical practice, an approach that is fairly unique in medical education. Ranking training programs above others is contrary to the principles of our specialty, although we recognize that certain programs are best suited for certain trainees.
Many factors contribute to a successful residency program, not all of which can be measured or compared. If your target audience is medical students contemplating a career in our field, we would be happy to work with you to identify objective, measurable factors to help students find the best program for their individual needs.
Unfortunately, our organizations, which represent more than 40,000 emergency physicians, could not recommend or encourage participation in the current survey by emergency physicians. We would, however, be happy to meet with you and help to identify the parameters that might better accomplish that purpose. If you are interested, please contact Marjorie Geist at 800-798-1822, ext. 3290.
Sincerely,
Alex M. Rosenau, DO, CPE, FACEP President, American College of Emergency Physicians Meaghan Mercer, MD President, American Academy of Emergency Medicine Resident and Student Association Mark Mitchell, DO, FACOEP President, American College of Osteopathic Emergency Physicians Jeffrey N. Love, MD, MSc President, Council of Emergency Medicine Residency Directors Jordan Celeste, MD President, Emergency Medicine Residents’ Assocation cc: Avery Comarow, Health Rankings Editor Mark Reiter MD MBA FAAEM President, American Academy of Emergency Medicine Francis L. Counselman, MD President, American Board of Emergency Medicine Andy S. Jagoda, MD, FACEP President, Association of Academic Chairs of Emergency Medicine Robert S. Hockberger, MD, FACEP President, Society for Academic Emergency Medicine
Dear Mr. Harder: As leaders of the top organizations representing emergency medicine, we have been contacted by scores of emergency physicians from around the country about a survey being conducted by U.S. News & World Report and Doximity. We appreciate your recognition of emergency medicine as an academic medical specialty with a unique core of knowledge and robust research agenda.
However, we are concerned about the sampling method chosen for this survey, because we believe it will fail to achieve your objective for this survey — to identify America’s top emergency medicine training programs. Asking only physicians enrolled in a social media website to nominate their five most preferred residencies will result in egregious sample bias and is not capable of resulting in a scientifically valid result. The results will be based solely upon opinions expressed by physicians who have no firsthand knowledge of any residency training programs other than the ones they attended themselves.
While not a formal ranking of residency programs, the results would convey that some programs provide better training than others. However, given the limitations, this would not be an accurate portrayal — to medical students or to the public. It also would not be useful to many medical students, because research shows that more than 75 percent of emergency physician residents report the number one reason for selecting a residency program is geography.
More concerning, the results could send a dangerous public health message to people with medical emergencies. It implies they should consider bypassing hospital emergency departments with residency programs that fared poorly in the survey. In a medical emergency, people should seek emergency care at the nearest emergency department, not one that scored better on a highly subjective opinion survey.
Patients need confidence in their physicians in times of crisis, especially since comparison shopping among doctors is not an option when someone is having a medical emergency. Emergency medicine residency programs train physicians in the emergent and acute conditions of just about every medical specialty in health care. As a result, emergency physicians are uniquely qualified to handle a full range of adult and pediatric emergencies. In addition, they see every kind of human drama imaginable, often treating multiple patients at a time.
The overall quality of medical care delivered in emergency departments in the United States is excellent, thanks to the uniformly high standards that govern the accreditation of residency programs in emergency medicine. Emergency medicine residencies collaborate openly with shared curricular tools built around a core model of clinical practice, an approach that is fairly unique in medical education. Ranking training programs above others is contrary to the principles of our specialty, although we recognize that certain programs are best suited for certain trainees.
Many factors contribute to a successful residency program, not all of which can be measured or compared. If your target audience is medical students contemplating a career in our field, we would be happy to work with you to identify objective, measurable factors to help students find the best program for their individual needs.
Unfortunately, our organizations, which represent more than 40,000 emergency physicians, could not recommend or encourage participation in the current survey by emergency physicians. We would, however, be happy to meet with you and help to identify the parameters that might better accomplish that purpose. If you are interested, please contact Marjorie Geist at 800-798-1822, ext. 3290.
Sincerely,
Alex M. Rosenau, DO, CPE, FACEP President, American College of Emergency Physicians Meaghan Mercer, MD President, American Academy of Emergency Medicine Resident and Student Association Mark Mitchell, DO, FACOEP President, American College of Osteopathic Emergency Physicians Jeffrey N. Love, MD, MSc President, Council of Emergency Medicine Residency Directors Jordan Celeste, MD President, Emergency Medicine Residents’ Assocation cc: Avery Comarow, Health Rankings Editor Mark Reiter MD MBA FAAEM President, American Academy of Emergency Medicine Francis L. Counselman, MD President, American Board of Emergency Medicine Andy S. Jagoda, MD, FACEP President, Association of Academic Chairs of Emergency Medicine Robert S. Hockberger, MD, FACEP President, Society for Academic Emergency Medicine
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Me neither.
Someday.
Someday.
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F A T T _
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M _ F A T T _ _ A _ T _
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I'd like to buy a Y.
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Every one of this year's crop of questions like this should somehow be met with an auto redirect to the ALiEM Google hangout videos on YouTube that they made last year. Would solve so much repetition.
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F A T T Y
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I'd like to solve the puzzle.
"Fatty McFattyPants"
"Fatty McFattyPants"
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Sorry, that wasn't framed in the form of a question. #wheelofjeopardy #suckittrebek
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