MCAT score went down :(

[MissAnneThrope]

Hi all,

I applied to allopathic schools last year in mid August with a 3.6 cGPA, 3.56 sGPA and 27 (7 PS 11 VR 9 BS) MCAT. Retook that MCAT this year and got a 25 (7PS 10VR 8BS) ...I'm not sure where I went wrong since I was getting 30-31's on the AAMC practice tests. I was ready to reapply this year, but now I am not so sure. I got an interview last year, waitlisted, and ultimately rejected. Do you think I'm still ok for osteopathic schools? Or should I retake the MCAT in the fall (giving me more time to prepare) and wait next year to reapply allo and osteo, using that time to build my app?

Other info:

400+ clinical hours (hospital)with lots of patient contact and experiences
4 years clinical research, 1 publication (not first author), 1 pending publication (not first author, but contributed more), unique teaching opportunities
4 years tutoring
1 year teaching at a science museum, outreach to local elementary schools
1 year performing at children's hospital using music as therapy
50 hours shadowing
CA resident
Non URM

I don't know how I'm going to bounce back from a 25, but I'd appreciate any and all advice! Thank you If there's any other info needed please let me know.

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[chizledfrmstone]

Your numbers would be fine for osteo but the drop from 27->25 is a little concerning. The average MCAT for established DO schools is in the 27-28 region and GPA of about 3.5

If you applied broadly you would definitely get in. You can always PM me if you have specific questions.

I honestly don't know anything about the allo side of things.

 

[QofQuimica]

Statistically, you are likely to score within three points of your previous score each time you take the MCAT. So your two scores are basically equivalent, and no, I don't think a third MCAT score in the mid-20s is going to be very helpful to your cause.

Coming from CA, you are not competitive for your state MD schools nor for OOS MD schools, and I wouldn't recommend you spend your time or money on applying to allo programs. I will leave it to @Goro and others with knowledge of specific DO schools to comment more on your competitiveness this year for various osteo schools, but I'm guessing you probably could be reasonably competitive for many of them if you applied broadly.

 

[Goro]

I concur with my learned colleague that you should be fine if you apply broadly to DO schools. Many schools will avg to two scores, so you still have a reasonable 26, and other take the best composite (which would be 27 = 7/11/9). I will leave it to your interview to turn around any interviewers worried about the knowledge decay.

I also agree that a 3rd try will not likley yield a better results. You've probably hit your plateau.

Statistically, you are likely to score within three points of your previous score each time you take the MCAT. So your two scores are basically equivalent, and no, I don't think a third MCAT score in the mid-20s is going to be very helpful to your cause.

Coming from CA, you are not competitive for your state MD schools nor for OOS MD schools, and I wouldn't recommend you spend your time or money on applying to allo programs. I will leave it to @Goro and others with knowledge of specific DO schools to comment more on your competitiveness this year for various osteo schools, but I'm guessing you probably could be reasonably competitive for many of them if you applied broadly.

 

[pink/\floyd]

If I were you I would retake. If you're happy going to mid to low tier DO schools, I would apply now. But, it will be a risk either way since 25 is on the low side. I think you know you are capable of scoring better! Study your ass OFF!!

 

[Stagg737]

Seeing as you're a non-URM, Cal resident with a 25 you're not going to be competitive at any MD schools, so I'd forget that plan.

I concur with my learned colleague that you should be fine if you apply broadly to DO schools. Many schools will avg to two scores, so you still have a reasonable 26, and other take the best composite (which would be 27 = 7/11/9). I will leave it to your interview to turn around any interviewers worried about the knowledge decay.

I also agree that a 3rd try will not likley yield a better results. You've probably hit your plateau.

I keep seeing this phrase thrown around on the forums and I'm really starting to wonder what this means... does it mean they should get accepted somewhere? Does it mean they're very competitive? Does it mean they're generally competitive at most places? Because there's a big difference between those three from what friends of mine and I have experienced...

For OP, as Goro said I think you sound like you're competitive at most DO schools if you apply broadly and that retaking the MCAT is probably a waste at this point unless you really believe you can hit 30 or higher. Even with that you still wouldn't be competitive at most MD schools and it probably won't significantly improve your DO application.

 

[Goro]

Yes, when I say this, it means that the applicant is competitive at most, but not all schools, and if s/he plays the filed, then the likelihood of getting multiple IIs is high.


I keep seeing this phrase thrown around on the forums and I'm really starting to wonder what this means... does it mean they should get accepted somewhere? Does it mean they're very competitive? Does it mean they're generally competitive at most places? Because there's a big difference between those three from what friends of mine and I have experienced...


100% agree!
For OP, as Goro said I think you sound like you're competitive at most DO schools if you apply broadly and that retaking the MCAT is probably a waste at this point unless you really believe you can hit 30 or higher. Even with that you still wouldn't be competitive at most MD schools and it probably won't significantly improve your DO application.

 

[MissAnneThrope]

Your numbers would be fine for osteo but the drop from 27->25 is a little concerning. The average MCAT for established DO schools is in the 27-28 region and GPA of about 3.5

If you applied broadly you would definitely get in. You can always PM me if you have specific questions.

I honestly don't know anything about the allo side of things.

Thanks for your honesty. I am definitely planning to apply broadly.

 

[MissAnneThrope]

Statistically, you are likely to score within three points of your previous score each time you take the MCAT. So your two scores are basically equivalent, and no, I don't think a third MCAT score in the mid-20s is going to be very helpful to your cause.

Coming from CA, you are not competitive for your state MD schools nor for OOS MD schools, and I wouldn't recommend you spend your time or money on applying to allo programs. I will leave it to @Goro and others with knowledge of specific DO schools to comment more on your competitiveness this year for various osteo schools, but I'm guessing you probably could be reasonably competitive for many of them if you applied broadly.

I concur with my learned colleague that you should be fine if you apply broadly to DO schools. Many schools will avg to two scores, so you still have a reasonable 26, and other take the best composite (which would be 27 = 7/11/9). I will leave it to your interview to turn around any interviewers worried about the knowledge decay.

I also agree that a 3rd try will not likley yield a better results. You've probably hit your plateau.

I completely agree that a 3rd try that's not at least a 31 or 32 would make things worse, but I have to respectfully disagree that I've scored the best I can. I was doing consistently better on my practice exams then on my actual test, even though I know practice tests are not perfect indicators of test performance. Yes, I've probably will not be ready to retake for at least two months now, but I am considering retaking it in the fall or winter, when I can take some time off to seriously change my studying methods. Would it be wise to apply now, and let schools know I am retaking, or just leave that information out?

 

[MissAnneThrope]

what path do you wan to take? If you want to go allopathic withdraw get a tutor and get that score up- you CAN do it. A plateau is for a person who doesn't want to put in that extra effort it can be done but it may take hours and hours even months . If you just wanna get in the door go osteo retake the mcat in the fall and void if you have any doubts.the best advice I've ever been given is to never let anyone discourage the vision you have for yourself. The school that is a good fit will see your potential and if not then that's their loss . Numbers give medical schools credibility, but once your practicing from what I've heard no one really cares what you got on mcat/boards/etc. what the patients you're working with care about is your integrity and character and helping them get better. That is not always existent in that guy with the 4.0/37 mcat. Good luck and remember the big picture!

If I were you I would retake. If you're happy going to mid to low tier DO schools, I would apply now. But, it will be a risk either way since 25 is on the low side. I think you know you are capable of scoring better! Study your ass OFF!!

I'd like to think I can do much better too. It's not really a matter of allopathic vs. osteopathic -though last year I didn't know too much about osteopathic medicine until I shadowed a DO and found that a lot of my activities and what I learned from them paralleled DO philosophy. In truth, I would accept most opportunities to be a doctor. Thanks for the encouragement!

 

[MissAnneThrope]

Seeing as you're a non-URM, Cal resident with a 25 you're not going to be competitive at any MD schools, so I'd forget that plan.



I keep seeing this phrase thrown around on the forums and I'm really starting to wonder what this means... does it mean they should get accepted somewhere? Does it mean they're very competitive? Does it mean they're generally competitive at most places? Because there's a big difference between those three from what friends of mine and I have experienced...

For OP, as Goro said I think you sound like you're competitive at most DO schools if you apply broadly and that retaking the MCAT is probably a waste at this point unless you really believe you can hit 30 or higher. Even with that you still wouldn't be competitive at most MD schools and it probably won't significantly improve your DO application.

With all due respect, can I ask why I would still not be competitive for most schools even with a 30+ MCAT retake? Is it because it would be my 3rd retake, or other things non-MCAT related? Anyway, thanks for your advice.

Yes, when I say this, it means that the applicant is competitive at most, but not all schools, and if s/he plays the filed, then the likelihood of getting multiple IIs is high.


I keep seeing this phrase thrown around on the forums and I'm really starting to wonder what this means... does it mean they should get accepted somewhere? Does it mean they're very competitive? Does it mean they're generally competitive at most places? Because there's a big difference between those three from what friends of mine and I have experienced...


100% agree!
For OP, as Goro said I think you sound like you're competitive at most DO schools if you apply broadly and that retaking the MCAT is probably a waste at this point unless you really believe you can hit 30 or higher. Even with that you still wouldn't be competitive at most MD schools and it probably won't significantly improve your DO application.

Thank you!

 

[JoyKim456]

Did you contact the school that rejected you last year?

 

[Plecopotamus]

With all due respect, can I ask why I would still not be competitive for most schools even with a 30+ MCAT retake? Is it because it would be my 3rd retake, or other things non-MCAT related? Anyway, thanks for your advice.


Thank you!

There are a few reasons and different schools may have different ones, but the net effect is the same . . . people who have to take the MCAT 3 times don't get the same reception as peers with the same score on a first attempt.
-Some schools average scores
-Some will see it as predictive of ability to represent them well when you take your boards
-Some reviewers will be stuck on your judgment -- how did you end up retaking the exam when you were apparently not prepared to outperform yourself? If you had access to the knowledge & resources to get your score up, why didn't you avail yourself of them after the first attempt?

 

[Goro]

For the DO schools, yes. For MD schools, waste of time and money.


Would it be wise to apply now, and let schools know I am retaking, or just leave that information out?

 

[Stagg737]

With all due respect, can I ask why I would still not be competitive for most schools even with a 30+ MCAT retake? Is it because it would be my 3rd retake, or other things non-MCAT related? Anyway, thanks for your advice.

Both because it is your third retake and non-MCAT things.

I'll add on to what Pleco said, because I think those are the general reasons that all adcoms will probably think of. The average accepted MD student has a 31.something MCAT and 3.7ish cGPA and sGPA. If you're below average in one of those, you better either make up for it by being well above average in the other category or have stupendous ECs/LORs. Let's pretend like you take it a third time and score a 32, which is about the average for students accepted to MD programs...

-Some schools average scores: If you get a 32, your 3 scores will be averaged to give you a 28. This would be competitive for DO schools, but would probably be competitive at 5, maybe 10 MD schools max, some of which you wouldn't be able to get into anyway since they have specific criteria for who they accept.

-Some will see it as predictive ability for boards: I've heard this before that your MCAT score is the best predictor of how well you will do on boards. Problem with the boards is that once you pass, you can't retake it. So if you were okay your first two times on the MCAT and not good/great until the 3rd, they'll expect you to get an okay board the first time that you will be stuck with.

-Some reviewers will be stuck on your judgment: You took the test twice and went down. That means either you didn't learn to prepare better from the first time or you peaked. Neither of which looks good to med schools.

No matter how you look at it, you're below average in the GPA department and far below average in the MCAT department for MD schools. Usually state public schools will be more forgiving of their in-state applicants, but you're from California, probably the worst state you could be in given your situation. This is because there are a huge number of aspiring doctors from your state, which means that (typically) California state schools are the hardest for their state residents to be accepted at. You'd actually have an easier time getting into some private schools as an OOS applicant than your California's public schools as a in-stater. That is why I said to forget the MD route, because even if you do manage to improve your MCAT to a 32, schools will still see your 27 and 25 and you will still not be very competitive at MD schools.

You are still competitive for many DO schools, even with your MCAT drop. I don't believe you need to retake the MCAT (why risk getting another 25-27 score, or even worse dropping to a 23 or 24?), but if you want to then just make sure you are more prepared than you ever have been. You can even call and ask some schools if taking it a third time is a good idea. Either way, if you want to go to school next year, get your apps in now and let schools know if you plan to retake. The earlier you apply, the better off you're going to be.

 

[eastcoastgirlx]

I'm in a similar boat. However, I am a first time applicant and thinking of only applying to DO schools. When everyone says apply broadly, what does that mean? I'm not too familiar with the upper/mid/low tier categorization for DO schools.

 

[Stagg737]

I'm in a similar boat. However, I am a first time applicant and thinking of only applying to DO schools. When everyone says apply broadly, what does that mean? I'm not too familiar with the upper/mid/low tier categorization for DO schools.

Applying broadly means applying to many schools (10 minimum, preferably 15-20) and applying to schools that fit your stats. Ignore tiers and look at where you want to go and have a shot of getting in.