McKinsey vs Residency

[Notsureaboutmed]

Hey all,

I got an offer from McKinsey to come in as an associate, and I think I'll take it eventually, but I'm having trouble deciding whether to defer the offer and do a residency first. A bit about my background, then a few questions for y'all.

I've always been interested in business, the big picture, policy, etc as much as clinical medicine so wasn't sure if I'd do clinical medicine long term even when I applied to med school. I haven't enjoyed my clinical rotations either a whole lot. But I'm not 100% sure I wouldn't like being a doc - a lot of what bothers me about 3rd year is being ignored, having little responsibility, etc. Right now I'm thinking about doing a prelim year or a transitional year to test the waters.

So with that background, a few questions:

-Would doing just an internship (prelim or transitional) help me if I decided to come back to medicine in a few years?

-What are the pros/cons of a prelim vs a transitional year?

-How competitive are prelim/transitional programs? Do I need a sub-I/research? I'm at a pretty good school.

-Any other general thoughts, pros/cons?

Thanks!

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[QuinnB]

I am in a similar position with McKinsey and I'll tell you why I'm going to do a transitional year.

1) I would hate to go to medical school and not be a licensed physician. Yes, I know I can take step 3 without residency, but a transitional year in some circumstances, allows you to practice. I didn't go to medical school for three years to put all of my eggs in one basket (that basket being McKinsey).

2) Having more clinical experience will help you with several engagements in various industries (pharma, healthcare, etc...)

3) Transitional years are a lot more fun in my opinion when compared to prelim years. They are more diverse in terms of exposure and you can go somewhere sunny and nice. That being said the "easier" programs, that is lower workload, are very competitive for transitional years, so be warned. Also, where you may want to go may not be easy (read as Hawai'i transitional year).

There is no doubt that McK will be a good decision - the opportunities are incredible (travel, colleagues, salary, challenging work, etc...) and the perks are ridiculous and way over the top. They really take care of their people. The real question is whether it is the best decision - which you seem to be comfortable with. Good luck.

 

[jmsMD]

I am in a similar position with McKinsey and I'll tell you why I'm going to do a transitional year.

There is no doubt that McK will be a good decision - the opportunities are incredible (travel, colleagues, salary, challenging work, etc...) and the perks are ridiculous and way over the top. They really take care of their people. The real question is whether it is the best decision - which you seem to be comfortable with. Good luck.

I am strongly considering the transition. I have been gathering information about the MD to business/finance transition for quite sometime and the more I learn about the different non-clinical business routes the more I realize how appropriate of a fit it would be for me.

I have a few questions regarding applicant selection into the consulting firms.

Mediocre pedigree..... My MD was from an international medical school and undergrad from a mediocre state school. I am a US Citizen and have stellar grades and achievements in these schools.

Do I stand a chance when it comes to making the transition into a consulting firm like McKinsey, Bain, Booz Allen, etc..

Are there any which are more amenable to non-ivy league backgrounds?

What sort of things should I work on as far as strengthening my application?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Notsureaboutmed]

Mediocre pedigree..... My MD was from an international medical school and undergrad from a mediocre state school. I am a US Citizen and have stellar grades and achievements in these schools.

Do I stand a chance when it comes to making the transition into a consulting firm like McKinsey, Bain, Booz Allen, etc..

Are there any which are more amenable to non-ivy league backgrounds?

What sort of things should I work on as far as strengthening my application?

I haven't actually worked there yet, just went through the recruiting process, and it's hard to know what else you've done in the past from this short message, but the one common thread in successful applicants (it seemed to me) was that they stood out in some way - great grades from a top school, started a successful business/Nonprofit, competed at a very high level in sports, won prestigious scholarships, etc.

I think there is a bias towards prestigious schools, but there are certainly plenty of folks I met working there from schools I'd never heard of who had distinguished themselves in some other way.

 

[Notsureaboutmed]

a transitional year in some circumstances, allows you to practice.

QuinnB - thanks so much for the advice, it's super helpful! Can you elaborate on the above though? What are the laws about practicing with a transitional year?

Also, if you're worried about career stability, couldn't you just go back and do a residency later if McK doesn't work out? And even if you do a transitional year, won't you likely have to repeat the intern year if you come back to medicine in 5-10 years?

Thanks.

 

[robberbaron]

If you do the transitional at least you can take step iii and get your license; and normally, no you shouldn't have to repeat a pgy-i prelim or transitional year for most specialty residencies if you have already done so and have a license. Also consider how willing you'd be to enter a residency for a quarter of what you'd make as an associate consultant in your 30s (i assume)..as such I've never encountered an MD that's returned to medicine to do a residency after a stint in consulting or banking.

 

[McKMD]

If you do the transitional at least you can take step iii and get your license; and normally, no you shouldn't have to repeat a pgy-i prelim or transitional year for most specialty residencies if you have already done so and have a license. Also consider how willing you'd be to enter a residency for a quarter of what you'd make as an associate consultant in your 30s (i assume)..as such I've never encountered an MD that's returned to medicine to do a residency after a stint in consulting or banking.

I went to McKinsey without a transition/preliminary year and I'm happy that it was the right decision for me. I don't believe it makes an ounce of difference for the kind of work you do at McKinsey - it's really about satisfying your personal interest to develop clinical skills. The best thing you can do is talk to some of the docs in last year's incoming class who decided to do no transition/prelim year vs. 1 year. PM me and I'll be happy to put you in touch with them.

As far as MDs who go back, it's possible but not common. Last year, one MD left the Firm after a year to do ophthalmology residency (he did not do a transition/prelim year ahead of joining the firm). Other than that MD, the docs who go back to practice have been residency trained.

 

[QuinnB]

QuinnB - thanks so much for the advice, it's super helpful! Can you elaborate on the above though? What are the laws about practicing with a transitional year?

Also, if you're worried about career stability, couldn't you just go back and do a residency later if McK doesn't work out? And even if you do a transitional year, won't you likely have to repeat the intern year if you come back to medicine in 5-10 years?

Thanks.

It is my impression that you can practice in some rural/underserved areas after transitional year in the US. You CANNOT practice at ANY major academic center given that they all require board certification which requires a full residency.

I'm not worried about consulting career stability (consulting had solid growth last year and after a few years at McK you can always transition into some other company if you're feeling a lot of pressures to move on or up). If I was, yes, you could go back and do residency, although, as a previous poster had mentioned, it is really tough to go from world class treatment to scut (in terms of pay, perks, treatment, etc...). I remember, during med school, I used to get so stoked any time there was a free lunch anywhere on campus. McKinsey is a little different.

You won't have to repeat the transitional year, but it may be very difficult to get back in even if you were competitive before. It is for this reason why many docs (maybe 50-75%) finish a residency prior to starting with McK. Most of these people are board certified and several have practiced for a few years. That being said, of the 25%+ who did not do residency, I have never heard one of them regret (please note, I only know 5 or so of such people).

I hope this helps.

 

[QuinnB]

Do I stand a chance when it comes to making the transition into a consulting firm like McKinsey, Bain, Booz Allen, etc..

Are there any which are more amenable to non-ivy league backgrounds?

What sort of things should I work on as far as strengthening my application?

It is always possible to land a spot with a solid firm, but it all depends on your interviewing ability. That being said, be aware that McK (I'm not sure about BCG and bain) has a strong bias toward prestigious institutions - this is likely the only reason I was interviewed in the first place.

I am not aware of any that are amenable to non-ivy, they all do take individuals from every where. You definitely have a chance and submitting an application is worth a shot. I think McK and BCG are the two that tend to take non-MBAs more than the others.

To strengthen your application, it depends on how much time you have and what your situation is. I would apply first and then think about strengthening your app if needed. If consulting is definitely what you want you could consider improving life experiences, working for another company for work experience, considering an MBA at a higher level institution, starting a NPO and just building leadership skills and increasing your overall impact. I would apply first though -

 

[jmsMD]

It is always possible to land a spot with a solid firm, but it all depends on your interviewing ability. That being said, be aware that McK (I'm not sure about BCG and bain) has a strong bias toward prestigious institutions - this is likely the only reason I was interviewed in the first place.

I am not aware of any that are amenable to non-ivy, they all do take individuals from every where. You definitely have a chance and submitting an application is worth a shot. I think McK and BCG are the two that tend to take non-MBAs more than the others.

To strengthen your application, it depends on how much time you have and what your situation is. I would apply first and then think about strengthening your app if needed. If consulting is definitely what you want you could consider improving life experiences, working for another company for work experience, considering an MBA at a higher level institution, starting a NPO and just building leadership skills and increasing your overall impact. I would apply first though -

Thanks Quinn. It is so difficult to find information on the transition.

From the way I interpret your post, you recommend applying before doing any further strengthening of my application (short of completing my residency and getting BC). This way, they can let me know what was missing in my application.

 

[DrJosephKim]

If you're seriously thinking about practicing, you really need to do a complete residency in today's era of managed care. The future will be even more so.

Most insurance plans will not accept new physicians who are not either board certified or board eligible. Also, you have the issue of hospital credentialing.

If you want to open your own office and accept cash payments, then you might be able to get away with it. But the era of doctors practicing after an internship is dwindling...

So seriously think about your future. It's very difficult to go back into residence after you've been working for a while.

http://mdjosephkim.blogspot.com/

 

[drrushikesh]

If you're seriously thinking about practicing, you really need to do a complete residency in today's era of managed care. The future will be even more so.

Most insurance plans will not accept new physicians who are not either board certified or board eligible. Also, you have the issue of hospital credentialing.

If you want to open your own office and accept cash payments, then you might be able to get away with it. But the era of doctors practicing after an internship is dwindling...

So seriously think about your future. It's very difficult to go back into residence after you've been working for a while.

JK
http://mdjosephkim.blogspot.com/

Hi,guys I am new entrant to this wonderful blog.I am an international medical graduate currently in India.I am about to complete my general surgery residency here.
I am considering two options--usmle and then try for US residency in surgery which I believe is very difficult to get.
OR SECONDLY A full fledge MBA at Wharton to make that great swich.
frankly what matters at the end of day is more money at right time.


What shoud I prefer?What type of opportunities I may get after MBA?
The Wharton school shows average salary in healthcare sectoe around 1,20,000 to 1,50,000.But is there any quantum growth?


I know these are too broad questions but I find your previous answers really details and apt........

 

[Xardas]

Hi,guys I am new entrant to this wonderful blog.I am an international medical graduate currently in India.I am about to complete my general surgery residency here.
I am considering two options--usmle and then try for US residency in surgery which I believe is very difficult to get.
OR SECONDLY A full fledge MBA at Wharton to make that great swich.
frankly what matters at the end of day is more money at right time.


What shoud I prefer?What type of opportunities I may get after MBA?
The Wharton school shows average salary in healthcare sectoe around 1,20,000 to 1,50,000.But is there any quantum growth?


I know these are too broad questions but I find your previous answers really details and apt........

I think ultimately you have to ask yourself, what are you going to be most happy doing? Business or medicine? Now you can do medicine and do some business on the side; for example owning your own practice is a business.

However, a career choice encompasses more than just money, and if you are not happy or at least just satisfied with what you want to do, you are probably not going to be successful doing what you do.

Having said that if all things are equal, and you already got into Wharton like you say you have, then I personally would just go that route, as the time it takes to pass USMLE's do residency all over again and then practice would be very long.

You have a better chance of making more money in a field where you have the interest and drive to succeed.

 

[Nilf]

Hi,guys I am new entrant to this wonderful blog.I am an international medical graduate currently in India.I am about to complete my general surgery residency here.
I am considering two options--usmle and then try for US residency in surgery which I believe is very difficult to get.
OR SECONDLY A full fledge MBA at Wharton to make that great swich.
frankly what matters at the end of day is more money at right time.


What shoud I prefer?What type of opportunities I may get after MBA?
The Wharton school shows average salary in healthcare sectoe around 1,20,000 to 1,50,000.But is there any quantum growth?


I know these are too broad questions but I find your previous answers really details and apt........

 

[drrushikesh]

I think ultimately you have to ask yourself, what are you going to be most happy doing? Business or medicine? Now you can do medicine and do some business on the side; for example owning your own practice is a business.

However, a career choice encompasses more than just money, and if you are not happy or at least just satisfied with what you want to do, you are probably not going to be successful doing what you do.

Having said that if all things are equal, and you already got into Wharton like you say you have, then I personally would just go that route, as the time it takes to pass USMLE's do residency all over again and then practice would be very long.

You have a better chance of making more money in a field where you have the interest and drive to succeed.

Thanks for the prompt advice.
Do you feel these-wharton and other biggies really make more money after ,say 5 years,than a doctor does in US?

 

[drseanlive]

can someone speak about the starting salaries for MDs w/o residency at places like McKinsey? Just to get an idea...

What is the future like in this in terms of lifestyle and $$ and how does this compare to medicine.

Thank you.

 

[deleted97016]

Any idea if you join Mckinsey after residency, you can join as A.P. or even Principal? That would make most sense in terms of compensation.

 

[bronx43]

Any idea if you join Mckinsey after residency, you can join as A.P. or even Principal? That would make most sense in terms of compensation.

Haha, no. As far as I know there's zero chance you can jump in as principal. McKinsey isn't exactly hurting for residency trained MDs enough to start an entirely unqualified person at principal and pay them principal salary. You'll get hired as an associate and work your way up from there. And you won't be given any leeway just because you've got MD behind your name. As far as they're concerned, you'll have to perform at the level of associate to keep your job.

 

[deleted97016]

Hi all, I graduated med school recently and applied to the big 3 consulting firms. I made it to 1st round interviews but didn't make it to 2nd round. I plan on re-applying in 1 year, but I don't really want to do an intern year. Any other ideas of something I could do for 1-year that would add some valuable experience and hopefully pay $$ (i'd rather not do b-school for this reason either). Thanks!