MD to MD/PhD reapplicant, looking for general advice

[aaliyah135]

Hello friends,

I applied MD during the 2021 cycle. The cycle turned out pretty poorly (no interviews). This cycle, I plan to apply MD/PhD instead. While I realize that MD/PhD is in fact more competitive than MD, I realized that my career goals are far more in line with that of a physician scientist, and would be a better fit in the eyes of adcoms for these programs.

Here's an overview of my previous app:
State of residence: MI
MCAT: 521 (expires after this cycle)
Cumulative GPA: 3.72 (Computer Engineering)
Science GPA: 3.75
Research experience: >5000 hours over 3 different labs, over the last 4 years. My first experience was in a comp sci lab that didn't have much to do with medicine, but I got a first author pub out of it. After this, I worked in two biomedical engineering labs (ultrasound surgery and brain stimulation), and got one second author pub out of each. I am still working at the brain stimulation lab, and I am interested in pursuing research in this field as an academic neurologist in the future.
Clinical volunteering: 180 hours (hospital acute rehabilitation unit; lots of close up interaction with patients that I talked about in my essay/activities)
Nonclinical volunteering: 40 hours (resume/GED tutor at homeless shelter)
Shadowing: 40 hours across two specialties (neurosurgery, cardiology)
Other extracurriculars: Co-founder of student organization to help STEM undergrads prepare for research focused careers through mentorship training in bio/chem lab techniques. Helped create a database of research opportunities on campus. Also led teaching sessions about finding a lab to work for, creating poster presentations, etc. I have since recruited new members to take my place to keep the organization running.

I applied to the following schools last cycle, but did not get any interview invites:
Albert Einstein College of Medicine
Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine
Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine (CCLCM)
Columbia University Vagelos College of Physicians and Surgeons
Emory University School of Medicine
Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai
Mayo Clinic Alix School of Medicine
Northwestern University The Feinberg School of Medicine
Oakland University William Beaumont School of Medicine
Ohio State University College of Medicine
Perelman School of Medicine at the University of Pennsylvania
Stanford University School of Medicine
University of California, San Francisco, School of Medicine
University of Chicago Division of the Biological Sciences The Pritzker School of Medicine
University of Michigan Medical School
University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine
University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry
University of Virginia School of Medicine
Wayne State University School of Medicine
Weill Cornell Medicine
Yale School of Medicine
___

As for why my last cycle went so poorly, I'm thinking that my engineering and research-heavy background threw the adcoms off. I tried to be clear in my essay about how I started off as an engineering student, became interested in medical technology, then eventually gained some clinical experience and decided to go the medicine route with a strong research focus. It's possible that I over-emphasized my research interests, and it made me seem more like a PhD applicant than an MD applicant. This cycle, I want to focus on MD/PhD so I can integrate my clinical and research motivations in a more coherent way.

This is what I've been doing since my previous app:
- I've continued my brain stimulation research work under an MD/PhD PI. I've done a poster presentation at a national conference + I am currently working toward a first author pub. I've spent a lot of time with this PI and have gained a pretty good understanding of what the physician-scientist role entails.
- Completed my Master's degree in biomedical engineering at the same institution as my undergrad (GPA: 4.0)
- Various COVID related volunteering related to vaccine distribution, testing, etc (about 40 hours). Not much additional direct patient experience though, due to COVID restrictions.

I would appreciate some general advice as to how to tune my application/essays to increase my chances of success this cycle. School list suggestions would also be helpful.

Thanks!

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[hanuman123]

I don’t have anything to advice to give you but I did want to say that I’m doing the same exact thing you are this year with very similar stats. You’re not alone! We’ll get it this time with the fits being a lot better!

 

[gnΩhmChild]

In my opinion you should better align your school list with your GPA and MCAT. Nearly every school you applied to is T20 and I believe your GPA is under the median of MD/PhD applicants. I think a much more conservative school list will increase your odds of II and A. Otherwise your application seems strong if you can put together a coherent narrative of why you want to do MD/PhD.

I applied MD/PhD successfully from an atypical engineering background so what you said regarding your past cycle may be true, but is not necessarily going to hold you back if you can integrate it into your story.

 

[aaliyah135]

In my opinion you should better align your school list with your GPA and MCAT. Nearly every school you applied to is T20 and I believe your GPA is under the median of MD/PhD applicants. I think a much more conservative school list will increase your odds of II and A. Otherwise your application seems strong if you can put together a coherent narrative of why you want to do MD/PhD.

I applied MD/PhD successfully from an atypical engineering background so what you said regarding your past cycle may be true, but is not necessarily going to hold you back if you can integrate it into your story.

Thanks for the reply. My GPA is indeed slightly below the median, but I was hoping that a 521 MCAT would make up for any deficiencies when it came to stats. Regardless, I definitely went too top heavy last cycle.

Good to know that you had a similar background when applying! I likely did a poor job of conveying my clinical motivations in my application last cycle. Refining my story will be my main focus over the next couple of weeks.

 

[wondervisions]

Thanks for the reply. My GPA is indeed slightly below the median, but I was hoping that a 521 MCAT would make up for any deficiencies when it came to stats. Regardless, I definitely went too top heavy last cycle.

Good to know that you had a similar background when applying! I likely did a poor job of conveying my clinical motivations in my application last cycle. Refining my story will be my main focus over the next couple of weeks.

Your stats are perfectly fine for any school.

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

Your stats are perfectly fine for any school.

I wouldn't necessarily assume that's true. Average at the top, top programs is 3.9+ and 99th percentile MCATs. They can afford to look at everything. Programs are catching on (at least a bit) to the complete randomness of publishing as an undergrad (and the relative ease of publishing in computational fields vs. wet lab research). At least my program director was noting that undergrad publications have very little impact on outcomes (e.g. residency matches, step 1 scores, successful F30 applications, etc...). Having three pubs in three different labs will help quite a bit though. Pubs are still more important than 3.7 vs. 3.9, but I do think that OP will face some resistance at the top schools for not being perfect in everything. That's just where we're at.

I applied 5 years ago with better stats (GPA ~3.95, MCAT 99th percentile), and OP's list would have been too ambitious for me. Granted, I applied far more selectively (geographically), and my pubs were all pending (I ended up with 3 pubs, including one first author, but they were only submitted at the time, not yet accepted), but I only got interviews at a handful of those schools.

 

[Maebea]

Programs are catching on (at least a bit) to the complete randomness of publishing as an undergrad (and the relative ease of publishing in computational fields vs. wet lab research). At least my program director was noting that undergrad publications have very little impact on outcomes (e.g. residency matches, step 1 scores, successful F30 applications, etc...)

MD-PhD programs have know this for decades. Undergrad pubs are largely a matter of being in the right place at the right time and are not a predictor of future success.

 

[wondervisions]

I wouldn't necessarily assume that's true. Average at the top, top programs is 3.9+ and 99th percentile MCATs. They can afford to look at everything. Programs are catching on (at least a bit) to the complete randomness of publishing as an undergrad (and the relative ease of publishing in computational fields vs. wet lab research). At least my program director was noting that undergrad publications have very little impact on outcomes (e.g. residency matches, step 1 scores, successful F30 applications, etc...). Having three pubs in three different labs will help quite a bit though. Pubs are still more important than 3.7 vs. 3.9, but I do think that OP will face some resistance at the top schools for not being perfect in everything. That's just where we're at.

I applied 5 years ago with better stats (GPA ~3.95, MCAT 99th percentile), and OP's list would have been too ambitious for me. Granted, I applied far more selectively (geographically), and my pubs were all pending (I ended up with 3 pubs, including one first author, but they were only submitted at the time, not yet accepted), but I only got interviews at a handful of those schools.

What I mean is that OP could reasonably get interviews from any school, not that they are a shoe-in for a T-20.

 

[aaliyah135]

Well, maybe the pubs will help a lot, or maybe they won't. All I know is that I'll be going in as an MD reapplicant (for the schools I applied to last cycle, at least), so I will probably have to fight an uphill battle anyway. My plan is to apply to all schools with labs that directly fit my research interests + a few others that are lower/mid tier programs.

One other thing I'd like to know, if you guys could provide input: for an MD/PhD physician-scientist, does the strength/prestige of the MD school matter as much as the strength/prestige of the PhD program associated with it?

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

MD-PhD programs have know this for decades. Undergrad pubs are largely a matter of being in the right place at the right time and are not a predictor of future success.

There are certainly things you can do to swing circumstances in your favor, but there is a large luck component to research, and not just for undergrad pubs. It is a function of project, lab culture, and sometimes even just favors/favoritism.

Some of the most talented PhD students in my program are not publishing even three years in while others who have a very surface level understanding of everything they are doing have added 4-5 mid-author publications to their resumes with a few 1st author pubs in the works. Different fields have very different work-to-publishable content ratios. Computational research vs. wet lab-based biomedical engineering (with their 5-6 year PhDs) comes to mind. Different PIs also have different thresholds for authorship or go out of their way to include students on pubs at early stages of their PhDs. Then there's the quality of those around you. 3rd author pubs are usually an identical amount of work, be it for a Nature paper or a low-impact communication, so it helps to be around those publishing in high impact journals.

This is why everyone tells you not to plan on a professorship. A lot of it is just random. The most important thing you can do for your own success is good positioning right at the start. A well-funded, productive, and benevolent PI is arguably the greatest predictor of success. However, the good news for OP is that the data really suggests that most PDs still value publications over small differences in GPA. Harvard isn't considering reapplicants with 3.7s and 98th percentile MCATs, but they also aren't considering first time applicants with 3.9s/99th percentile MCATs and no pubs (ask me how I know, lmao). In the mid-tier, my experience is that most PDs still value pubs over test scores, even if they know it's bull. After all, no one will care about your college GPA when you apply for a K grant, but your pubs will still be visible. Even on F30s, which directly benefit the program, pubs help a lot.

 

[ChordaEpiphany]

One other thing I'd like to know, if you guys could provide input: for an MD/PhD physician-scientist, does the strength/prestige of the MD school matter as much as the strength/prestige of the PhD program associated with it?

This depends on your goals. I would argue the MD program is more important, and a lot of people would fight me on that, but my perspective is pretty simple.

If you are in a position where you are going to become a professor and do meaningful research as a world expert in the field, you are likely coming from a program that has excellent everything (i.e. T20), so the MD vs. PhD rank comparison is really splitting hairs. If you are coming from a school where the reputation is anything other than top, top tier, only rarely will you even get the chance to truly pursue a worthwhile academic research career in the basic sciences (i.e. R-funded independent investigator). If you do, it will be after an enormous amount of personal and familial sacrifice (that most find unacceptable when clinical jobs will pay so much more and can ensure stability for your family earlier in life). So probably, you'll use the MD more than the PhD, and the MD will help in residency/fellowship prospects far more than a top PhD program. There are many threads on this forum detailing exactly how would-be researchers are forced out of the academic world by lack of incentives to stay in.

Also, no one in medicine even knows your PhD program is prestigious. Some notable examples would be University of Wisconsin or UC Davis having excellent PhD programs in biological sciences or Boston University having a top 10 biomedical engineering department. How many PDs (or even grant reviewers) are taking this into account? For MD reputation matters. For PhD, only the lab matters, not the program reputation, and MD/PhD students don't know which lab they'll enter before joining (typically). Program reputation is just for Department Chair bragging rights. Ultimately, researchers only care about your publication output and areas of expertise. As my post above mentions, achieving success in that arena that can be a remarkably random endeavor.

 

[aaliyah135]

Bumping this thread so I can make a humble request: would anyone care to offer feedback my MD-PHD motivation and research statements (and possibly some secondary app essays)? Considering how things went last cycle, I’m sure that my writing skills were a weak point in my app.