"medical scholarship"? Need some help.

[pulmonary kid]

So I'm a pre med student ( I know this may be the wrong place to be posting this ) , and as I approach graduation I'm wondering how I'm going to pay for Medical school. Long story short, I've been talking with Military recruiters. The USAF recruiter explained to me that I

a.) must be accepted to a medical school prior to applying for the "scholarship"

b.) I might not be granted the "scholarship", and may end up active duty anyways and trying to pay for Medical school out of pocket.

Any USAF guys out there want to help me out with some info? I'm wondering what your GPA was, what your Major was, and what your MCAT score was... Also, any tips on qualifying for the "medical scholarship" ??

Are there any more gaurenteed routes I might take? The thought of getting in to a school and not knowing how Im going to pay for it is my biggest fear.

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[pgg]

b.) I might not be granted the "scholarship", and may end up active duty anyways and trying to pay for Medical school out of pocket.

What?

There ain't no draft no more ...

The only way you "may end up on active duty anyways" is if you JOIN.

Any USAF guys out there want to help me out with some info? I'm wondering what your GPA was, what your Major was, and what your MCAT score was... Also, any tips on qualifying for the "medical scholarship" ??

First, you're right to put "scholarship" in quotes, because it's not really a scholarship. Scholarships are grants, money that is given to you. HPSP is a loan - they give you money up front, and you give the military time after medical school.

Second, HPSP is not competitive. Virtually everyone who secures a medical school admission will qualify for and be offered an HPSP slot if they want one.

Focus on getting into medical school.

Are there any more gaurenteed routes I might take? The thought of getting in to a school and not knowing how Im going to pay for it is my biggest fear.

Most people who go to medical school pay for it the old fashioned way ... loans. I would anticipate no difficulty paying for medical school. Repaying those loans is another issue worth considering.

 

[Perrotfish]

a) Yes

b) no, what? Are you talking to a recuiter for the HPSP scholarship or just some random enlisted recruiter? If you're talking to an enlisted recruiter STOP DOING THAT. You apply for the HPSP scholarship directly, through a recruiter who does nothing but HPSP scholarships. If you're accepted great, if you get turned down you have no military obligation. If you are talking to an enlisted recruiter of a normal officer recruiter stop right now because they have nothing to offer you.

Other advice:

Almost everyone in your class will be paying for medical school through loans, and everyone who applies for those loans will get them. You will not have a problem paying for school.

The military is a complicated decision from a financial standpoint and is also going to have a huge impact on your career and lifestyle. Read through these forums, in their entirety, before signing anything. Start by reading every word of the threads posted in the sticky section at the top of this page.

If you're not patriotic and have no interest in the military lifestyle then you probably don't want to join the military.

If you decide you want to do this, look into the Navy and Army as well. Though all brances are similar there are still some difference in the way each service runs things and, in my opinion, the AF is the hands down worst option.

 

[Special Delivery]

So I'm a pre med student ( I know this may be the wrong place to be posting this ) , and as I approach graduation I'm wondering how I'm going to pay for Medical school. Long story short, I've been talking with Military recruiters. The USAF recruiter explained to me that I

a.) must be accepted to a medical school prior to applying for the "scholarship".

This is false. The recruiter may have told you this, but just this past year, because quite a few medical schools were dragging their tails on interviews and acceptances, the Army actually canceled their second round of boards in because there were only two applicants (out of the several states in our recruiting region) who had actually gotten acceptances, and a few were more or less granted the HPSP pending their acceptances. USAF might be different, as it is much smaller than the Army and fewer scholarships.

b.) I might not be granted the "scholarship", and may end up active duty anyways and trying to pay for Medical school out of pocket.

This is false. You can not end up on active duty just by applying for the HPSP. It sounds like you're talking to a regular recruiter, and this is bad. They should have directed you to a milmed recruiter that specializes in recruiting medical professionals (not strictly HPSP, but nurses, etc as well)

Any USAF guys out there want to help me out with some info? I'm wondering what your GPA was, what your Major was, and what your MCAT score was... Also, any tips on qualifying for the "medical scholarship" ??

My wife got the HPSP with a 3.65 GPA (4.0 sGPA), Fine Arts, 24m. I would be lying to say that money wasn't a factor in our decision to go this route, as the only med school she was accepted to happens to be one of the most expensive in the country. Had she not gotten it, we would have bitten the bullet anyways, but we also have three small children so the no-loans, signing bonus, and the stipend are a huge plus as well.

That said, you should not do HPSP unless you are serious about serving your country in the capacity you are saying you will. If you sign up for the money, you won't be happy with the military and it won't be happy with you. And as others have pointed out, it's not a scholarship in a true sense. Like every other med student, you will owe, except this payback is more about time and personal freedom than money (though time is money, isn't it).

There are pros and cons of civilian and military medicine both, and you should read the many posts on these boards to be certain you know what you're getting into. The idea of thousands in loans can be daunting, but most people take out student loans and manage to repay them. If they can, so can you.

Not saying this to discourage you from you pursuing the HPSP, but to spur you to get as much information as you can. My wife and I were thrilled she got into the Army, but that's us. Get the facts for yourself and be satisfied with your decision, either way.

 

[J-Rad]

I basically agree with everybody above me. Distilling a few thoughts:

1. Stop talking to this enlisted recruiter because I highly suspect that this is the case. Sounds like someone who know just enough to not know what they don't know. For AF find a AF Health Professions Recruiter. If this guy is a health professions recruiter, find another one.

2. You can, and should apply for the "scholarship" (IF it is truly in your best interest to do so after intense research here and in real life by talking to as many current and recent active duty docs as possible) simultaneous with applying for medical school (i.e. before potential acceptances) and as early as possible. While the scholarships are not competitive for those that have an acceptance (and an acceptance to a medical school is a requisite for the scholarship) there are limited numbers available in each year and it has occurred that late appliers have not gotten a slot in their desired service simply because the service ran out of spots by that time. Just like medical school, earlier is better. Even if you do not secure a medical school acceptance one year, having your paperwork submitted to the service makes the application much easier the second time around if you become a re-applicant to both medical schools and to the HPSP (this happened to me).

3. IMHO if HPSP is right for you, consider doing a 3-year scholarship instead of a 4-year. The one-less year of obligation may be a lifesaver depending on your experience during payback time. This comes with the giant caveat that as part of your research, you need to get a firm grasp on the obligations that you occur with the HPSPs and with residencies. This is critical and not an easy task for the uninitiated. Unfortunately, recruiters are often not well versed in anything other than the absolute basics of active duty service obligations (ADSOs) and almost never understand the complexities of the two ADSOs you sign on for up front, the obligations incurred with residencies and fellowships, and what GMO time can do to ADSOs).

4. Do not apply to AF only. As above, apply to all three if this is the right choice for you. All services have their quirks, benefits, and down sides. Your enlisted buddy who talked about how much better he had it in the AF than his Army buds has no bearing on what your career as a physician in the service will be. ALL of them have quirks, ups, and downs, but AF probably has the greatest reputation for officiousness. You should also look at strength of GME across the services.

5. As far as competitiveness for the scholarship-it is irrelevant. If you are competitive for med school and can secure an acceptance, then you are competitive for a scholarship (as long as you meet eligibility criteria for becoming an officer). The most likely thing to limit your success will be bad timing.

 

[Special Delivery]

J-Rad jogged my memory on a few things...

First, read this blog: http://lukeballard.tripod.com/HPSP.html

3. IMHO if HPSP is right for you, consider doing a 3-year scholarship instead of a 4-year. The one-less year of obligation may be a lifesaver depending on your experience during payback time.

This may be slightly inaccurate, and you will have to check for yourself, but iirc, payback is not automatically reduced to 3 years... it's 3 years or residency, whichever is longer... so unless you're doing a specialty with a short residency, you will be paying back 4 years... also, if you take the signing bonus (currently 20k) you are automatically signing up for 4 years. Given the current situation, it's just as well to sign up for the 4-year hpsp so you don't have to deal with 1 year's worth of tuition.

4. Do not apply to AF only. As above, apply to all three if this is the right choice for you. All services have their quirks, benefits, and down sides. Your enlisted buddy who talked about how much better he had it in the AF than his Army buds has no bearing on what your career as a physician in the service will be. ALL of them have quirks, ups, and downs, but AF probably has the greatest reputation for officiousness. You should also look at strength of GME across the services.

Every recruiter will tell you their branch is the best - it's practically their job to do so. Talk to active duty and former milmed professionals and find out what they like least about their branch. My wife was fortunate enough to shadow a guy who had served as a doc in the Army so she got a lot of info from him on how things were. Like J-Rad said, don't talk to just AF... they have a lot fewer HPSP scholarships available, Navy has more, and Army has even more than Navy.

5. As far as competitiveness for the scholarship-it is irrelevant. If you are competitive for med school and can secure an acceptance, then you are competitive for a scholarship (as long as you meet eligibility criteria for becoming an officer). The most likely thing to limit your success will be bad timing.

My wife contacted the Army recruiter late November. If you've more or less made your decision by then, you should contact them earlier. HOWEVER, keep in mind that the recruiters will not move extremely fast until you've secured an acceptance spot. There's a lot of paperwork to fill out for the HPSP (More than for buying a house), so unless you're accepted there's no need to hurry on their part. Getting into med school is far harder than getting the scholarship.

 

[J-Rad]

J-Rad jogged my memory on a few things...

First, read this blog: http://lukeballard.tripod.com/HPSP.html


This may be slightly inaccurate, and you will have to check for yourself, but iirc, payback is not automatically reduced to 3 years... it's 3 years or residency, whichever is longer... so unless you're doing a specialty with a short residency, you will be paying back 4 years... also, if you take the signing bonus (currently 20k) you are automatically signing up for 4 years. Given the current situation, it's just as well to sign up for the 4-year hpsp so you don't have to deal with 1 year's worth of tuition.

Indeed. That's why I emphasized thoroughly familiarizing oneself with the obligations that can be incurred by both med school and residency. But, for someone who decides that military GME isn't for them (and wants to get out after PGY1+GMO time) or does a residency that is three years and finds that they hate milmed, that one year less may be a life-saver. But, as above, an applicant needs to know what may erase that potenital advantage.



Every recruiter will tell you their branch is the best - it's practically their job to do so. Talk to active duty and former milmed professionals and find out what they like least about their branch. My wife was fortunate enough to shadow a guy who had served as a doc in the Army so she got a lot of info from him on how things were. Like J-Rad said, don't talk to just AF... they have a lot fewer HPSP scholarships available, Navy has more, and Army has even more than Navy.

I have to emphasize talking to recently active duty. Talking to Dr. Joe Schmuckitelli who got out in '86 offers almost nothing of benefit to making a balanced and rational decision on taking HPSP. I'm sure that there isn't a hard and fast date, but someone who got out in the oughts is better than someone who got out in the 90s (>>>out in 80s)


My wife contacted the Army recruiter late November. If you've more or less made your decision by then, you should contact them earlier. HOWEVER, keep in mind that the recruiters will not move extremely fast until you've secured an acceptance spot. There's a lot of paperwork to fill out for the HPSP (More than for buying a house), so unless you're accepted there's no need to hurry on their part. Getting into med school is far harder than getting the scholarship.

But there is no harm in getting paperwork done early. Things always get lost and need to be redone. If heading down this path, leave some time-cushion.

.

 

[DocArmy]

What?
Second, HPSP is not competitive. Virtually everyone who secures a medical school admission will qualify for and be offered an HPSP slot if they want one.

I know that HPSP is not highly competitive, but of my classmates who applied for the 3 year AF HPSP, only 1 out of 4 got it. 3 people did not get it.

So, while historically, it wasn't competitive, with the world ending after wall street destroyed the economy, it is more competitive than it used to be.

 

[Perrotfish]

I know that HPSP is not highly competitive, but of my classmates who applied for the 3 year AF HPSP, only 1 out of 4 got it. 3 people did not get it.

So, while historically, it wasn't competitive, with the world ending after wall street destroyed the economy, it is more competitive than it used to be.

While it is true that the scholarship is more competitive in general these days, keep in mind that the 3 year is also significantly harder to get than the 4 year scholarship. If you get in and want a 4 year scholarship you still have very good odds of getting it.

 

[Charlie0318]

For what it is worth I had my Med School acceptance in September, had my file complete in October/November and was declined for Air Force HPSP. I was team captain of a D-1 varsity sports program in college so it wasn't for lack of extra curricular or leadership experience. HPSP is getting more competitive, at least in the AF.

 

[CanuckianSatori]

While it is true that the scholarship is more competitive in general these days, keep in mind that the 3 year is also significantly harder to get than the 4 year scholarship. If you get in and want a 4 year scholarship you still have very good odds of getting it.

Why is the 3-year HPSP more competitive?

I'm in the summer before my second year of med school and I applied this spring for the Navy HPSP. I was approved for commission almost two months ago, but my recruiter hasn't been able to get my medical clearance to go through because he kept forgetting the required elements (eg, forgot a lipid panel and fasting glucose). I'm wondering if its too late at this point to get a 3-year Navy HPSP.

 

[pgg]

I know that HPSP is not highly competitive, but of my classmates who applied for the 3 year AF HPSP, only 1 out of 4 got it. 3 people did not get it.

So, while historically, it wasn't competitive, with the world ending after wall street destroyed the economy, it is more competitive than it used to be.

AF always fills up first. If they'd been willing to settle for Navy or Army I have no doubt they'd have been offered a slot.

For some reason, people get the idea that being an AF doctor is easier or cushier than being a Navy or Army doctor. Less "military" if you will ...

I admit a little schadenfreude whenever I see premeds flocking toward AF HPSP over Army/Navy ... they seem oblivious to how the AF is further along than Army/Navy on ratcheting up the doctor pain in the name of rightsizing.

 

[a1qwerty55]

AF always fills up first. If they'd been willing to settle for Navy or Army I have no doubt they'd have been offered a slot.

For some reason, people get the idea that being an AF doctor is easier or cushier than being a Navy or Army doctor. Less "military" if you will ...

I admit a little schadenfreude whenever I see premeds flocking toward AF HPSP over Army/Navy ... they seem oblivious to how the AF is further along than Army/Navy on ratcheting up the doctor pain in the name of rightsizing.

Amen - I also garner some enjoyment out of watching those who thought they could be "less military" by entering the USAF only to find out they are tremendously worse both with military specific baloney and psychotic nonmedical commanders with few medical facilities, patient loads and training opportunities to boot. Airpower!. Karma I believe.

 

[AF M4]

Amen - I also garner some enjoyment out of watching those who thought they could be "less military" by entering the USAF only to find out they are tremendously worse both with military specific baloney and psychotic nonmedical commanders with few medical facilities, patient loads and training opportunities to boot. Airpower!. Karma I believe.

Hey! I actually liked the idea of flying a lot. Then I discovered that I get motion sick easily. Good times.

And yes, to all those HPSP-to be types out there - a1 and pgg are correct. Having been an AF HPSPer and also having friends who did AF, Army and Navy and seeing where their careers have led I certainly would have chosen one of the two other branches if I'd known what I know now.

 

[Jet915]

Amen - I also garner some enjoyment out of watching those who thought they could be "less military" by entering the USAF only to find out they are tremendously worse both with military specific baloney and psychotic nonmedical commanders with few medical facilities, patient loads and training opportunities to boot. Airpower!. Karma I believe.

I almost fell into that trap, I initially wanted to go Air Force w/o knowing much about any of the services. Luckily, I chose Navy and so far have been happy w/my choice.