medical students in the national guard

[Cmaj7th]

Hello all I wanted to know what programs does the ARNG offer incoming medical students? I'm enlisting as a 68W in the Guard and continuing my education in the ROTC via the Simultaneous Membership Program. This program allows one to continue to drill with their Guard Unit but not be deployable by the federal government (can still be mobilized by the state for natural disasters.)

As you all know ROTC requires their graduating cadets to serve an additional four years as officers AD but I'd rather serve in the guard. Are their any programs in the guard that allows medical students to not be deployable during medical school and residency? I also do not need any scholarships from ROTC during undergrad because I have free tuition at that school, will I still owe them ex amount of years if I do not accept a scholarship? And if I do not accept a scholarship does that make me deployable? In my research I found out about the ASR program which is supposedly disbanded, and MDSSP and STRAP but I couldnt find anything about being protected from deployments during medical school.

I asked my recruiter and ROTC recruiter and they both knew less than I did. Please help!

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[Cmaj7th]

>.<

 

[notdeadyet]

Hello all I wanted to know what programs does the ARNG offer incoming medical students?

The National Guard has only one program now for medical students: MDSSP. You get about $2K/month for a commitment of 2 years drill time for every 1 year of stipend.

Are their any programs in the guard that allows medical students to not be deployable during medical school and residency?

You can be commissioned into a Medical Student MOS that is non-deployable during medical school. But if you are enlisting and/or then going ROTC, you'll be MOS qualified in something else and/or branched into something else. I'm not sure if they would want/let you out of your commitment to change your MOS to a non-deployable MOS.

I also do not need any scholarships from ROTC during undergrad because I have free tuition at that school, will I still owe them ex amount of years if I do not accept a scholarship? And if I do not accept a scholarship does that make me deployable?

I know nothing about how ROTC works. You might have better luck on ROTC-centric forums for those.

In my research I found out about the ASR program which is supposedly disbanded,

It definitely stopped taking new applicants about a year ago.

and MDSSP and STRAP but I couldnt find anything about being protected from deployments during medical school.

MDSSP is protected from deployment because you're in a non-deployable MOS (med student). STRAP is protected from deployment as per Army policy.

The fly in the ointment will be if you come in to medical school with ROTC and/or enlisted baggage and have another MOS.

 

[Jtun84]

I can't imagine why you would do ROTC if you get free tuition. Yes you still owe time if you don't take the scholarship but contract anyway, something to the tune of 6 years if I remember correctly and that's on top of any time you gain with any programs like STRAP or MDSSP. Ultimately that's a really long time, have fun being deployed to Thenextplaceweinvadeistan when you're 50.
Additionally, all ROTC does is take time away from important things like studying and drinking. About once a month you'll have to go sit in the woods with a bunch of wannabe Rangers who will probably branch Transportation because they can barely spell their names and talk about fun things like the newest K-Bar and how awesome it will be when you get to "The Suck". You'll also get stuck with extra duties like color guard or recruiting. Yes, you will have to sit at a table in your lunch hall in uniform and answer questions like "do I get to kill people" or "Do they give you guns to take home" or "Do I get to kill people" or "Will this get me laid". (By they way no, no, no and hell no.) They also like to make you skip class to go to an Army post and try to find reflective sticks placed on top of mountains or in swamps using only a compass and your ability to find a Land Nav partner who used to be a boy scout. All this is on top of two classes a week plus a 4 hour lab where you learn how to pretend your hand is a gun and attack your friends yelling "bang bang". Stick with your MOS and take the MDSSP when you get accepted to med school.

 

[Enkidu]

Hello all I wanted to know what programs does the ARNG offer incoming medical students? I'm enlisting as a 68W in the Guard and continuing my education in the ROTC via the Simultaneous Membership Program. This program allows one to continue to drill with their Guard Unit but not be deployable by the federal government (can still be mobilized by the state for natural disasters.)

As you all know ROTC requires their graduating cadets to serve an additional four years as officers AD but I'd rather serve in the guard. Are their any programs in the guard that allows medical students to not be deployable during medical school and residency? I also do not need any scholarships from ROTC during undergrad because I have free tuition at that school, will I still owe them ex amount of years if I do not accept a scholarship? And if I do not accept a scholarship does that make me deployable? In my research I found out about the ASR program which is supposedly disbanded, and MDSSP and STRAP but I couldnt find anything about being protected from deployments during medical school.

I asked my recruiter and ROTC recruiter and they both knew less than I did. Please help!

I came off of active duty through green-to-gold, went through ROTC, and did SMP. I don't quite understand why you'd be enlisting in the guard as a 68W, though. I came into the guard as a cadet, not an enlisted medic.

In any case, I commissioned into the guard as a medical service officer and was reclassified as a medical student once I started medical school. I'm legally non-deployable until I finish my internship, though I think that as a matter of practice residents are also not deployed.

I am in the ASR program, which was probably the only program in which the army actually screws itself on your behalf, but otherwise I don't take any army money. The key to being nondeployable to be classified as a medical student. Talk to the medical recruiter for your state about that, you don't have to take any money for it.

 

[Enkidu]

I can't imagine why you would do ROTC if you get free tuition. Yes you still owe time if you don't take the scholarship but contract anyway, something to the tune of 6 years if I remember correctly and that's on top of any time you gain with any programs like STRAP or MDSSP. Ultimately that's a really long time, have fun being deployed to Thenextplaceweinvadeistan when you're 50.
Additionally, all ROTC does is take time away from important things like studying and drinking. About once a month you'll have to go sit in the woods with a bunch of wannabe Rangers who will probably branch Transportation because they can barely spell their names and talk about fun things like the newest K-Bar and how awesome it will be when you get to "The Suck". You'll also get stuck with extra duties like color guard or recruiting. Yes, you will have to sit at a table in your lunch hall in uniform and answer questions like "do I get to kill people" or "Do they give you guns to take home" or "Do I get to kill people" or "Will this get me laid". (By they way no, no, no and hell no.) They also like to make you skip class to go to an Army post and try to find reflective sticks placed on top of mountains or in swamps using only a compass and your ability to find a Land Nav partner who used to be a boy scout. All this is on top of two classes a week plus a 4 hour lab where you learn how to pretend your hand is a gun and attack your friends yelling "bang bang". Stick with your MOS and take the MDSSP when you get accepted to med school.

Yeah, that's a pretty good characterization of ROTC. If you haven't already contracted I might get out. I had to do it because of my green-to-gold contract, but there's no benefit to it if you are going to go to medical school, might as well skip it.

 

[Cmaj7th]

I don't quite understand why you'd be enlisting in the guard as a 68W, though. I came into the guard as a cadet, not an enlisted medic.

I'm enlisting in the Guard as a whiskey just because that is what interested me and it seemed applicable for stateside missions. I found out about the SMP program after testing and the physical at MEPS.

SMP is appealing because I would be able to finish college without deploying for 15 months to Afghanistan. I could still take part in the Stateside mission and jokes aside the ROTC lifestyle appeals to me! I have free tuition because my mom is an Internist at the health clinic. Despite being a physician she is having a really hard time financially because of a rocky divorce with my dad.

She said she would pay for me to live on campus (I go to a community college now) but I know she cant afford that and save for her retirement. She's just trying to be nice. I'd rather pay my own way but I currently make $10 an hour and the apartments in that college town do not go below $600 a month unless you want to live in the hood. And I mean guys with tear drop tattoos and everything, its a rough area that part of town. I heard that the ROTC scholarship can be used for room and board so that was a huge plus.

In my research I found that SMP cadets void their Guard contract and owe an additional 8 years after commission. Now thats not bad at all if I could get an ed delay for medical school or whatever I need to be non deployable.

The way I see it is I'll owe 8 years when it's all said in done if I dont accept money beyond ROTC. I also heard that doctors aren't deployed like regular Guard units in the sense that it's shortened by quite a bit. I also like the idea of being deployable as a physician instead of a Medic.

So to sum that book up Im interested in SMP because:
-I get to be a member of my states guard and respond to disasters without getting yanked out of school for a year
-I get to experience the ROTC lifestyle. (I know it sounds cheesy but I do really want to learn how to lead)
-ARNG and ROTC benefits simultaneously

This would be great if (and this is a big IF) I can be classed as a medical student after commission and if it would not add any more years of service owed.

I can deal with 8 and it's under my impression that that is without IRR. Thank you

 

[notdeadyet]

SMP is appealing because I would be able to finish college without deploying for 15 months to Afghanistan. I could still take part in the Stateside mission

Non-deployable is good. But I wouldn't make any big decisions based on "stateside missions." You can participate in these in the Guard regardless of what status you join under, no? And how often does your state do a meaningful mission you couldn't also contribute to as a civilian? Katrina and such are pretty much rareities.

She said she would pay for me to live on campus (I go to a community college now) but I know she cant afford that and save for her retirement.

There are additional options beyond paying-as-you-go and having-mom-pay. Many-to-most people do not have money saved up for college and take out loans. It's been happening for ions. If you have a tuition-free pass for college, take out the loans for room-and-board and don't incur additional obligation. If you're only borrowing $12-15K/year on a two year hitch, this will not be hard to pay off once you're a doctor. I wouldn't join an obligation-incurring program for the sake of rent money during college.

In my research I found that SMP cadets void their Guard contract and owe an additional 8 years after commission. Now thats not bad at all if I could get an ed delay for medical school or whatever I need to be non deployable.

What happens if you go the SMP/ROTC route and do not get an educational delay? What happens if you don't get into med school you're first go-round (happens to 50% of folks) and need to reapply? During that year are you deployable? A one year deployment could delay entry to medical school by an additional 2 years, which would have some hefty opportunity cost.

The way I see it is I'll owe 8 years when it's all said in done if I dont accept money beyond ROTC. I also heard that doctors aren't deployed like regular Guard units in the sense that it's shortened by quite a bit.

Yep. Guard docs deploy 90 days boots-on-ground, 120 days total per deployment. It definitely beats a 9 month tour that 68W's were pulling recently.

I also like the idea of being deployable as a physician instead of a Medic.

Double yep. So I really don't understand the point of enlisting into a specialty you have not intention or plan to actually put to use. Seems kind of pointless to me.

This would be great if (and this is a big IF) I can be classed as a medical student after commission and if it would not add any more years of service owed.

That's the rub. I don't really see your point of Enlisting--> ROTC--> Commissioning--> Med School.

Every scenario I've encountered seemed to imply that incurring any kind of military obligation if you have the intention of entering medical school is just bad juju.

Best of luck with your decisions...

 

[Cmaj7th]

Thank you for your insight. You've given me a lot to think about

 

[henge]

The National Guard has only one program now for medical students: MDSSP. You get about $2K/month for a commitment of 2 years drill time for every 1 year of stipend.


You can be commissioned into a Medical Student MOS that is non-deployable during medical school. .

MDSSP is protected from deployment because you're in a non-deployable MOS (med student). STRAP is protected from deployment as per Army policy.

How does it work if student joins ANG as an MI, but does not (at least initially) participate in MDSSP?

Would the student be able to sign on as an officer in the ANG, and get the drill/training pay, as well as being eligible for the $4500 FTA and possibly state tuition assistance?

Would the student be non-deployable while in med school and (under current policy), while in residency?

Would the student subsequently be eligible to sign up for MDSSP in, say, M3 or M4; be eligible for STRAP during residency or other incentives like signing bonuses and HPLRP?

 

[notdeadyet]

How does it work if student joins ANG as an MI, but does not (at least initially) participate in MDSSP?

When you say MI, do you mean medical student? Not clear what you mean, but I'm assuming it's not military intelligence...

Would the student be able to sign on as an officer in the ANG, and get the drill/training pay, as well as being eligible for the $4500 FTA and possibly state tuition assistance?

ANG means Air National Guard, but I'm assuming you mean Army National Guard (ARNG). Correct me if I'm wrong on that; I know almost nothing about the Air Force.

You can join the National Guard as a medical student (and occupy a non-deplorable medical student slot) without taking MDSSP, you just have to get it in writing and make sure they don't convince you to join in another role. You will get drill pay each time you drill, will be eligible for the $4500/year and any perks your state gives for Guardsmen in college.

Would the student be non-deployable while in med school and (under current policy), while in residency?

As long as you are in a med student slot, you are non-deployable. You are also non-deployable during residency per policy (and I couldn't find examples of anyone pulled out of residency for deployment unwillingly).

Would the student subsequently be eligible to sign up for MDSSP in, say, M3 or M4; be eligible for STRAP during residency or other incentives like signing bonuses and HPLRP?

You should be able to take MDSSP and STRAP. There was talk of changing MDSSP and STRAP to be only eligible for new accessions, but that hasn't happened yet (and no word if and when it will). Keep in mind that for MDSSP and STRAP, once you sign up, you obligated to keep on it until you finish med school and residency, respectively. You should be able to take HPLRP after residency if it's still around.

You will not be eligible for any signing bonuses, as you've already signed.

 

[henge]

Thank you very much. Yup, MI meant M1 meant first year of med school, and ANG should've been ARNG.

I may also have incorrectly used the term 'signing bonus' when I meant 'special pay.' Based on the (now superseded--see below) March 2011 Guidance for ARNG AMEDD Officer Incentives, I thought the special pay of (currently) $25,000 per year for a 3 year commitment, etc., could be used as a retention tool, so it could be paid to a doc fresh out of residency in a critically needed specialty if that doc was about to terminate, or had just terminated, his MSO and did not owe any contractual payback (i.e., he was in a position where he could walk, strings free). Is that wrong?

Also, would the 8 year MSO be served as 6 drilling and 2 IRR?

Is the med student slot as 2d Lieutenant, as in MDSSP, with the same officer training?

Finally, on another thread you posted a link to current incentives: MEDSOM #12-001 ARNG-CSG--FY 12-13 ARNG AMEDD Officer Incentives.pdf I haven't been able to follow that to get the document. Is there another way to get that document?

 

[notdeadyet]

I may also have incorrectly used the term 'signing bonus' when I meant 'special pay.' Based on the (now superseded--see below) March 2011 Guidance for ARNG AMEDD Officer Incentives, I thought the special pay of (currently) $25,000 per year for a 3 year commitment, etc., could be used as a retention tool, so it could be paid to a doc fresh out of residency in a critically needed specialty if that doc was about to terminate, or had just terminated, his MSO and did not owe any contractual payback (i.e., he was in a position where he could walk, strings free). Is that wrong?

"Signing bonus" means a benefit the military gives to someone who is not in the military. So once you join, you are no longer eligible.

Special Pay is a $25K/year retention bonus given to BC/BE docs to keep them in. You can take it anytime after residency and it pays one year after you sign for it (you get paid after staying in a year as per the agreement). You can take this for up to 3 years. You can also take HPLRP in the same fashion for up to 6 years to a total of $250K. You can not take them both at the same time. You can also not take them until you have paid back MDSSP and/or STRAP obligations, except under certain circumstances in which your payback of these programs is put on hold while you take HPLRP.

This has nothing to do with the 8 year MSO. While Special Pay, HPLRP, MDSSP and STRAP oblgiations are paid off consecutively, your MSO is burned off from the moment you raise your hand. Participation in other programs does not affect it.

Also, would the 8 year MSO be served as 6 drilling and 2 IRR?

Yes, that's typically how it's done. You have an 8 year MSO, like any officer, and 6 years is required to be in drilling status. You can drill for the last two or take IRR.

Is the med student slot as 2d Lieutenant, as in MDSSP, with the same officer training?

After you swear in, you have up to 2 years (or 3 with permission) to go to BOLC, the officer training (which is 27 days for reserve corps). You will be a 2LT from the time you swear in until you are promoted to 1LT, which happens 18 months later and when you have finished BOLC. It's the same process for MDSSP or folks who join as medical students.

Finally, on another thread you posted a link to current incentives: MEDSOM #12-001 ARNG-CSG--FY 12-13 ARNG AMEDD Officer Incentives.pdf I haven't been able to follow that to get the document. Is there another way to get that document?

You can google it. I'm not sure if that link goes somewhere requiring a password and I don't have access to a computer with my CAC card right now.

 

[henge]

Thanks you very much, and happy holidays.

 

[pre-med444]

If you take mdssp and strap can you still qualify for the loan repayment (hplrp) and bonuses (special pay program)? Thanks. Basically in what way can I get the most incentives overall. I am not afraid of a large obligation. Could I do just strap and get hplrp + special pay after etc. What combinations works the best? Also, if I join regular guard during med school can I go into strap program no problem?