Mediocre numbers with high hopes - is a FOURTH MCAT a bad idea? PLEASE ADVISE

[omsies]

Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this.

SUMMARY
- 3.31 cGPA, 3.06 BCPM
- MCAT 32 (12P/9V/11B), w/ two prior MCATs of 30 (11/10/9) and 29 (10/9/10)
- Graduated December 2010, plan on applying primarily to MD-PhD Programs in June of 2012
- California resident, looking to attend a medical school in California (excluding La Loma)

With this thread, please assume that I otherwise (extracurricularly/personally) have a strong profile for applying, which includes at least a year of research, clinical, volunteering, and other relevant/diversifying experiences.

I need to know if taking the MCAT one more time is actually a feasible thing for me to do. I understand that my GPA is lackluster - it is the result of being in the top undergrad chemistry program in the country, among other things. I also understand that a 32 is not a bad score, though it isn't necessarily as strong as it should be to make up for the GPA and two prior MCATS.

Nevertheless, I find myself itching to take it again. This probably seems like a classic case of somebody getting in over his head, because I've already had three exams scored and because they are all pretty close together in their scores. But, I am pretty determined to get into a CA school (namely, Davis or Irvine), and I know that the easiest way to make a jump in my chances for these schools is to have stronger numbers (AKA a stronger test score, since my GPA is already fixed). To top it off, I really, truly think that I can hit at least a 35.

Please, don't post in this thread if you are going to comment on the difficulty of improving a score, or the stress/personal toll associated with taking and preparing for the test, or the high cost of registering for the exam. I'm aware of all that stuff, and I frankly don't care. All I need to know from you, my valued peers, is if it is out of the question to have 4 MCAT scores on my application, or if a score of, say, 35 or better will really improve my chances for these and other schools, despite my GPA/other MCAT shortcomings. A major driving force for me to take it one more time is the knowledge that some schools only consider your best or most recent scores (my top two choices being examples).

I am ultimately not totally inflexible in what medical school I end at - indeed, I think I can get in SOMEWHERE with my current stats, and if it comes to me leaving the state in 2013 to become a doctor, so be it. But I need to know (soon) whether or not it is a stupid idea to have the MCAT graded a fourth time. The way I see it, worst case scenario, I will cancel my score if I know I did not destroy the exam on test day, and will simply apply to schools with my current states.

Anything relevant information is much appreciated. Thanks again.

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[Shibbyboi182]

Berkeley or otherwise (that's my guess), your stats are too low for MD, let alone California MD. You need to be thinking post-bacc or SMP at this point. A 32 is a good score--smack at the average for acceptance-- but remember that the average matriculant has your mkitty AND a GPA a fair few standard deviations above yours. Given the trend in your grades over the last few terms, you might want to consider applying straight to a DO program prior to any additional coursework.

This isn't coming from 3.9 kid either. I'm a 3.5 student myself busting my rump to get mine higher. Good luck.

 

[thyKnight]

You will get in somewhere, but most probably not in-state. If you feel like you can earn a 35+ then I say go for it.

 

[Goro]

Suggest against it. Most people reach a plateau of competance ont he MCAT, and I've seen tons of scores after 3 even 4 times, where the number barely budges 1 or 2 points. Keep in mind that the further you are out of school, the more "knowledge decay" can creep in, and end up hurting your score.

Your GPA is good for most DO schools, but too low for all but perhaps the low tier MD schools. The very low sGPA will hurt you at some but not all DO schools.

So quit fussing and start applying! And good luck!
And apply to my school! (somewhere west of St Louis)

Thank you in advance for taking the time to read this.

SUMMARY
- 3.31 cGPA, 3.06 BCPM
- MCAT 32 (12P/9V/11B), w/ two prior MCATs of 30 (11/10/9) and 29 (10/9/10)
- Graduated December 2010, plan on applying primarily to MD-PhD Programs in June of 2012
- California resident, looking to attend a medical school in California (excluding La Loma)

With this thread, please assume that I otherwise (extracurricularly/personally) have a strong profile for applying, which includes at least a year of research, clinical, volunteering, and other relevant/diversifying experiences.

I need to know if taking the MCAT one more time is actually a feasible thing for me to do. I understand that my GPA is lackluster - it is the result of being in the top undergrad chemistry program in the country, among other things. I also understand that a 32 is not a bad score, though it isn't necessarily as strong as it should be to make up for the GPA and two prior MCATS.

Nevertheless, I find myself itching to take it again. This probably seems like a classic case of somebody getting in over his head, because I've already had three exams scored and because they are all pretty close together in their scores. But, I am pretty determined to get into a CA school (namely, Davis or Irvine), and I know that the easiest way to make a jump in my chances for these schools is to have stronger numbers (AKA a stronger test score, since my GPA is already fixed). To top it off, I really, truly think that I can hit at least a 35.

Please, don't post in this thread if you are going to comment on the difficulty of improving a score, or the stress/personal toll associated with taking and preparing for the test, or the high cost of registering for the exam. I'm aware of all that stuff, and I frankly don't care. All I need to know from you, my valued peers, is if it is out of the question to have 4 MCAT scores on my application, or if a score of, say, 35 or better will really improve my chances for these and other schools, despite my GPA/other MCAT shortcomings. A major driving force for me to take it one more time is the knowledge that some schools only consider your best or most recent scores (my top two choices being examples).

I am ultimately not totally inflexible in what medical school I end at - indeed, I think I can get in SOMEWHERE with my current stats, and if it comes to me leaving the state in 2013 to become a doctor, so be it. But I need to know (soon) whether or not it is a stupid idea to have the MCAT graded a fourth time. The way I see it, worst case scenario, I will cancel my score if I know I did not destroy the exam on test day, and will simply apply to schools with my current states.

Anything relevant information is much appreciated. Thanks again.

 

[asrikrishnan]

MD/PhD is hard to get into for people with 3.7+ with a 33+ MCAT... I feel like unless you are confident you can make even higher than a 35 (ie 37 or 38) you shouldn't think about taking it again. You should definitely consider going either straight MD/DO or do a post-bacc. Just my opinion though...

 

[omsies]

Thank you for the feedback. Stubborn as I am, I'm not really looking into/considering DO programs - I understand the differences between the two, and just feel that MD is a better personal fit all around. I don't necessarily have my heart set on MD/PhD either, but I am essentially certain that I will be applying to about 15-20 MD/PhD programs, and 5-10 MD programs.

It's pretty obvious that my sGPA is my glaring application weakness, so I'm also looking into retaking science courses within the next several months that I flopped in undergrad and shouldn't have. Any recommendations for that topic would be appreciated as well.

But, I'd really like this thread to divert attention from DO programs, or my GPA/overall profile/other issues. I posted in this thread primarily to get feedback on this proposed fourth MCAT - not the strategies for studying or things like that, just if it's inherently a bad idea, and what schools would take from it. Yeah, it's going to be TOUGH to make a huge jump in the test, but the main reason I started this thread in the first place is because I really believe that I can. I guess I'm hoping perseverance to be a factor considered, particularly with the mid-tier schools.

Thank you again.

 

[nysw]

Advise against. I think you've hit an MCAT plateau seeing as how your score only creeps up 1-2 points a retake. What are you going to do differently that will bump you up to a 35+?
Unless you have a drastically different approach/strategy to the test this time (that works), don't bother.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

I would say pass. Even with a 35 mcat you still aren't competitive for MD/PhD. You are competitive for DO. I know you said you don't want to consider DO programs but your gpa is really low and retaking classes will help for DO schools but retaking a lot of your classes will negligibly raise your gpa. So you also need to be realistic. In addition, you aren't competitive for any California schools and you don't get the benefit of being IS anywhere you do end up, so your 3.0 sGPA is going to work against you more. Also, is your low gpa from a bad year or you just a B student?

I honestly think you should forget about the MD/PhD programs, because there is no reason to accept you. There are tons of applicants with a 3.7-36 average. I think you should be realistic and focus on lower tier and DO programs. Since you aren't interested in DO programs, low tier is your best bet. And understand that you aren't that competitive so take any acceptance you can get. So ultimately, retaking the mcat wouldn't be beneficial.

 

[ksmajmudar]

.... I think you are definitely overestimating your chances (at least, for US MD and MD/PhD programs). I have similar stats (3.08 sGPA, 3.26 cGPA, 32Q MCAT, research w/international conference presentation, years of shadowing, EMTing, philanthropy, leadership, and music) and believe me, you are seriously in the bottom percentages for chances of acceptance. If you're a URM, you have a much better chance, but if you're asian, they're pretty much nil.

I would say, do not retake your MCAT - based on your previous scores, you will most likely not go up more than a point, maybe two at this point (as has previously been said - it seems that you're at an MCAT plateau). The weakness in your application is NOT your MCAT, hence it would be a waste of your time to try and raise your score.

Definitely need SMP to be competitive for MD schools.

 

[eHombre]

I would say pass. Even with a 35 mcat you still aren't competitive for MD/PhD. You are competitive for DO. I know you said you don't want to consider DO programs but your gpa is really low and retaking classes will help for DO schools but retaking a lot of your classes will negligibly raise your gpa. So you also need to be realistic. In addition, you aren't competitive for any California schools and you don't get the benefit of being IS anywhere you do end up, so your 3.0 sGPA is going to work against you more. Also, is your low gpa from a bad year or you just a B student?

I honestly think you should forget about the MD/PhD programs, because there is no reason to accept you. There are tons of applicants with a 3.7-36 average. I think you should be realistic and focus on lower tier and DO programs. Since you aren't interested in DO programs, low tier is your best bet. And understand that you aren't that competitive so take any acceptance you can get. So ultimately, retaking the mcat wouldn't be beneficial.

OP, this is truth. I'm usually an optimist when it comes to these things, but as FrkyBgStok said, the MCAT isn't really your problem here. It's that 3.06 BCPM GPA, which all but disqualifies you outright from the MD/PhD programs, to say nothing of the mid-upper tier and CA schools you're talking about. If you insist on the MD schools, apply broadly, by which we mean, don't thumb your nose at schools like Loma Linda.

What FrkyBgStok was referring to was the fact that DO schools do grade replacement, which can turn one of your C's into an A. If you do turn a C into an A, it means that the single retaken class takes your sGPA for DO schools from 3.00 to 3.10 (assuming 60 science credits taken already). Three such C->A performances takes you to 3.30, getting you into respectable territory.

Contrast this with the MD scenario. Your retaken classes are added to your previous C's, not substituted. Your GPA increases under the same scenarios would be from 3.00 to 3.05 and 3.13, respectively. So you see, you're just not able to do as much GPA repair under the MD rules.

Oh, and don't retake the MCAT a 4th time. Your 32 is pretty balanced and is a good score; even if you get a 35, it might look like a fluke.

 

[JustMeditate]

At this point in time, I am honestly not sure how taking a fourth MCAT exam will help you. It's one thing to have a low GPA and a 36-38 MCAT on your first or second go around. It is another thing entirely to have a low GPA and a 35 on one of four exams, 75% of which have been average scores. I'm sure all med schools do things differently: Some average MCAT scores, some take your most recent scores, some take the highest and I think some will only take the lowest. But regardless, with only 100-200 slots open per school, the odds are against you even if you could manage a 35 on the next MCAT which, given the trend thus far, I doubt. Maybe, if you got a 38 or higher, the retake would help. Can you manage that?

If you have your heart set on MD, you need to seriously consider pushing back med school for a few years and do a postbacc or an SMP. Unless you've patented some modification to the artificial heart pump or have some other super amazing EC we don't know about, your EC's and MCAT are about average, and your GPA is below average. MD schools, especailly those in Cali, have a wide variety of people to choose from who have you beat. If you want, I'd say go ahead and apply this year, but if no one accepts you, you may want to go back to school or reconsider your career choice. It sucks, I know, but realistically MD is a reach unles syou up the GPA, and there is no quick fix for a system with no grade replacement policy (i.e. MD programs).

Also, if you only have a year of research, I'd seriously reconsioder spending money on MD/PhD applications.