Military Internship contract/career questions

[psychanator]

I have some questions about military internships that I'm hoping can be answered. I was not able to find a previous thread that discussed this, but I apologize if this has been discussed previously. I am interested in potentially applying for a pre-doc internship in the military (e.g., Navy, or such), but I understand that in order to match you need to be willing to sign a 3-year post-internship contract with them (I imagine this is similar with other branches). Does anyone know what the life/career projection is like? I imagine that the internship is at the set location, but does the remainder of your contract happen at that location and in the capacity of internship, or is transfer possible/likely (i.e. if the site is in California, is that where I will stay doing similar work)?

Also, if anyone has information about benefits for enlisting (rather than say, working as a civilian at Walter Reed, etc.), as well as anticipated projection for psychologists in the military (regarding need, deployment rates, etc.) that would be great too.

Basically, I realize this is a loaded inquiry, but I find that information varies quite a bit and can be hard to get, so I was hoping to get a pooling of feedback from you guys. Thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[erg923]

I have some questions about military internships that I'm hoping can be answered. I was not able to find a previous thread that discussed this, but I apologize if this has been discussed previously. I am interested in potentially applying for a pre-doc internship in the military (e.g., Navy, or such), but I understand that in order to match you need to be willing to sign a 3-year post-internship contract with them (I imagine this is similar with other branches). Does anyone know what the life/career projection is like? I imagine that the internship is at the set location, but does the remainder of your contract happen at that location and in the capacity of internship, or is transfer possible/likely (i.e. if the site is in California, is that where I will stay doing similar work)?

Also, if anyone has information about benefits for enlisting (rather than say, working as a civilian at Walter Reed, etc.), as well as anticipated projection for psychologists in the military (regarding need, deployment rates, etc.) that would be great too.

Basically, I realize this is a loaded inquiry, but I find that information varies quite a bit and can be hard to get, so I was hoping to get a pooling of feedback from you guys. Thanks!

First, its important that you understand that you are being commisioned as on officer in the United States military. Its bit more than a "contact." You have to go to officer training school for 14 weeks, PT, weapons training, the whole nine yards.

Second, after internship you will be "stationed" at a location where there is a need. The assignment billet for this comes out late in the internship year, and I think you can do some preference ranking, but ultimately, you go where they need you. During your comittment, you can be "deployed" (as long as your are licensed) anywhere from 3 months to 1 year. Army has longest deployments, generally. Navy, you will be at sea, obviously. I would expect to be deployed at least once in your your 3 years. The benefits to being an officer vs civilian contractor is that you are offered all the benefits of being a service member (cause you are one) such as tax free housing allowance, hazard/deployment pay, retirement eligible after 20 years with pension, etc. Cons, you live where they tell you to live. No time for any PP or other side gigs. Not exactly a "family friendly" lifestyle, IMO.\

The need for psychologists in the armed forces is great, and it will not be going anywhere anytime soon. The demands of military life/experiences creates a plethora of psychopathology in and of itself, let alone what was there premorbidly. There is high turnover of psychologists in all the branches.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

First, its important that you understand that you are being commisioned as on officer in the United States military. Its bit more than a "contact." You have to go to officer training school for 14 weeks, PT, weapons training, the whole nine yards.

Second, after internship you will be "stationed" at a location where there is a need. The assignment billet for this comes out late in the internship year, and I think you can do some preference ranking, but ultimately, you go where they need you. During your comittment, you can be "deployed" (as long as your are licensed) anywhere from 3 months to 1 year. Army has longest deployments, generally. Navy, you will be at sea, obviously. I would expect to be deployed at least once in your your 3 years. The benefits to being an officer vs civilian contractor is that you are offered all the benefits of being a service member (cause you are one) such as tax free housing allowance, hazard/deployment pay, retirement eligible after 20 years with pension, etc. Cons, you live where they tell you to live. No time for any PP or other side gigs. Not exactly a "family friendly" lifestyle, IMO.\

The need for psychologists in the armed forces is great, and it will not be going anywhere anytime soon. The demands of military life/experiences creates a plethora of psychopathology in and of itself, let alone what was there premorbidly. There is high turnover of psychologists in all the branches.

About the high turnover, do you have any links to data on that erg? I was just interested in reading it.

 

[WisNeuro]

some of that is anecdotal. all of the psychologists I've spoken too in the forces had high rates of burnout. You're expected to do so much, outside of your field, with people who have no experience and less training out-ranking you, that it becomes very tedious. After talking to 5-6 people who went that route, I had no desire to do the same.

 

[erg923]

some of that is anecdotal. all of the psychologists I've spoken too in the forces had high rates of burnout. You're expected to do so much, outside of your field, with people who have no experience and less training out-ranking you, that it becomes very tedious. After talking to 5-6 people who went that route, I had no desire to do the same.

I think the more educated one is, especially in regards to psychological health, the less likely one will enjoy working in such a hierarchical structure.

Its also important to remember that you will be working within a system in which mental health is in no way a priority of/for your employer. The military mission is to train fighters and killers that are prepared to follow orders. The priority is to keep them battle ready. This is done by not validating emotional experiences, not complaining, and "sucking it up." Period. To me, its kinda like working as a prison psychologist-your job (empowerment, improvement, validation, socialization) is sometimes diametrically opposed to the larger mission/purpose of the institution (punitive justice, segregation). This can make for frustrating work environment.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

I think the more educated one is, especially in regards to psychological health, the less likely one will enjoy working in such a hierarchical structure.

Its also important to remember that you will be working within a system in which mental health is in no way a priority of/for your employer. The military mission is to train fighters and killers that are prepared to follow orders. The priority is to keep them battle ready. This is done by not validating emotional experiences, not complaining, and "sucking it up." Period. To me, its kinda like working as a prison psychologist-your job (empowerment, improvement, validation, socialization) is sometimes diametrically opposed to the larger mission/purpose of the institution (punitive justice, segregation). This can make for frustrating work environment.

Do you find the system to be vastly different at the VA? Obviously I'm still gunning for the HPSP, but if that doesn't work out, or after I leave a branch of the service, I'm sure that is where I will want to work if possible.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

some of that is anecdotal. all of the psychologists I've spoken too in the forces had high rates of burnout. You're expected to do so much, outside of your field, with people who have no experience and less training out-ranking you, that it becomes very tedious. After talking to 5-6 people who went that route, I had no desire to do the same.

Would this experience be the same for those who end up working at the VA, at least initially (Not being sarcastic here, real question)?

 

[erg923]

The

Do you find the system to be vastly different at the VA? Obviously I'm still gunning for the HPSP, but if that doesn't work out, or after I leave a branch of the service, I'm sure that is where I will want to work if possible.

The VA is in the business of healthcare, not the training and maintenance of a state militia. So, no. They aren't the same at all.

It can be hieracrchal in places, and it's a system that doesn't always move like a well oiled machine though.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

The


The VA is in the business of healthcare, not the training and maintenance of a state militia. So, no. They aren't the same at all.

It can be hieracrchal in places, and it's a system that doesn't always move like a well oiled machine though.

Sorry, I wasn't more clear in my initial post, I meant is the bureaucratic nature of both career options still present? And if so how often does it hold up your personal growth in your career and how often does it stop you from effectively treating your clients/patients?

 

[erg923]

Sorry, I wasn't more clear in my initial post, I meant is the bureaucratic nature of both career options still present? And if so how often does it hold up your personal growth in your career and how often does it stop you from effectively treating your clients/patients?

Yes there is a bureaucratic structure in the VA that is enormous. And some of the things that I am required to do seem quite silly. Resources are not equally distributed throughout the entire system and changing even some of the smallest nonsensical procedures takes forever. Communication from main facility out to the numerous CBOCs in this catchment area could be improved as well.

None of this however, stops me from providing quality clinical care, and no one ever tries to micromanage the type of care that I provide.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

Yes there is a bureaucratic structure in the VA that is enormous. And some of the things that I am required to do seem quite silly. Resources are not equally distributed throughout the entire system and changing even some of the smallest nonsensical procedures takes forever. Communication from main facility out to the numerous CBOCs in this catchment area could be improved as well.

None of this however, stops me from providing quality clinical care, and no one ever tries to micromanage the type of care that I provide.

Thank you for helping me understand the situation erg!

 

[WisNeuro]

Would this experience be the same for those who end up working at the VA, at least initially (Not being sarcastic here, real question)?

As erg mentioned, the VA is bureaucratic, but not in the same vein as the military. My supervisor is a neuropsychologist as well, and I have complete autonomy in what tests I use and the recommendations I make. Day in and day out I am doing exactly what I was trained to do and I have a ton of say in different aspects of my job, whether it be clinical training, my research, or the clinical care I provide.

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

As erg mentioned, the VA is bureaucratic, but not in the same vein as the military. My supervisor is a neuropsychologist as well, and I have complete autonomy in what tests I use and the recommendations I make. Day in and day out I am doing exactly what I was trained to do and I have a ton of say in different aspects of my job, whether it be clinical training, my research, or the clinical care I provide.

I see. Thanks for helping me out, just trying to plan for the future!

 

[AcronymAllergy]

As erg mentioned, the VA is bureaucratic, but not in the same vein as the military. My supervisor is a neuropsychologist as well, and I have complete autonomy in what tests I use and the recommendations I make. Day in and day out I am doing exactly what I was trained to do and I have a ton of say in different aspects of my job, whether it be clinical training, my research, or the clinical care I provide.

This and erg's post are very similar to my experiences in the VA as well. The training atmosphere was great (sometimes perhaps too great, as trainees have a good bit of sway), and the working atmosphere has been fulfilling as well. The bureaucracy aspects can at times get a bit tedious, but I can certainly handle that when it's combined with a significant amount of autonomy in my day-to-day functioning; a supportive multi-disciplinary group of co-workers who value what I do (and vice-versa); a system that, as a whole, is very dedicated to mental health and to seeing it thoroughly integrated into the healthcare landscape; and a solid benefits package. The only downside to my current position is that because it's entirely clinical, it's a bit more difficult to carve out research time. However, I get the feeling that as I get more into the groove and am able to start fleshing out some potential projects, the support (even if not the time) will be there.

 

[WisNeuro]

Yeah, the research part varies VA to VA. The past two that I've been at have been very research oriented, and I've been easily able to carve out the time, resources, and data. But I have some colleagues at other places that have some difficulty in the research arena.