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just wanted updates on moonlighting especially in the northeast.
Does your program allow it and how much do you get paid?
Does your program allow it and how much do you get paid?
just wanted updates on moonlighting especially in the northeast.
Does your program allow it and how much do you get paid?
200/hr is crazy. They are likely losing money since they need to pay an attending to supervise on top.$200/hr? Hot damn. That's good locums money in the northeast for a board certified anesthesiologist!
At which program is $200/hr being paid? Or do you mean external moonlighting on your own license & malpractice?
UPMC ain't exactly northeast, but it was $60/hr for in-house moonlighting.
$200/hr...
$200/hr? Hot damn. That's good locums money in the northeast for a board certified anesthesiologist!
At which program is $200/hr being paid? Or do you mean external moonlighting on your own license & malpractice?
UPMC ain't exactly northeast, but it was $60/hr for in-house moonlighting.
$200/hr...
just wanted updates on moonlighting especially in the northeast.
Does your program allow it and how much do you get paid?
That's still really good. I got $170/h and $162.50/h and $180/h at my last three moonlighting jobs, and that was as a board cert attending carrying my own malpractice.oh no this is for fellows who can staff cases after their clinical duties as a fellow.
What programs allow moonlight and which ones don't
$200/hr? Hot damn. That's good locums money in the northeast for a board certified anesthesiologist!
At which program is $200/hr being paid? Or do you mean external moonlighting on your own license & malpractice?
UPMC ain't exactly northeast, but it was $60/hr for in-house moonlighting.
$200/hr...
$200/hr might be high (maybe) but $60/hr is insulting. There are OR travel nurses making that kind of money with just a 2 year RN degree. Figures it was UPMC. They underpay everyone they can.
In most industries, temporary /contract workers can extract a premium wage because they are filling an urgent need at less impact to the employer than hiring another full time employee and taking the long term commitments that entails.
Regular staff nurses (like circulating RNs) are able to make $30-40 in a lot of ORs, and contract / travel nurses can pull $40-60+ depending on supply and demand.
If you are only being offered $60 ish for WAY more responsibility, that is a rip off. CRNAs make more than that. It would certainly cost a lot more than that to hire another regular full time anesthesiologist to fill those hours. If you are good enough to do the work, you are good enough to be paid for it appropriately.
Pro -
Can't disagree that$60/hr isn't equal to what a CRNA gets, or that UPMC underpays. But what program pays the same as what a CRNA gets?
The market isn't what does the resident deserve, it's what will the resident work for. Just like the market for attendings. Those attendings that HAVE to live in a big city and get sub-$300k jobs aren't getting what they deserve, they're getting what they're willing to work for. You coulda told me about how much I'm getting boned on the $60/hr when I was a resident, and I still woulda worked it, because I wanted to keep putting something toward my debt each month, and buy my girl something nice for her birthday, etc.
Apparently, they still believe that paying extra for temporary labor is cheaper than raising wages across the board to a level that would keep experienced staff on hand.
This belief seems to be shared by every hospital management team in the country. Either they're all a bunch of re'***** (say it like in the Hangover) or they're onto something??
Pro -
Can't disagree that$60/hr isn't equal to what a CRNA gets, or that UPMC underpays. But what program pays the same as what a CRNA gets?
The market isn't what does the resident deserve, it's what will the resident work for. Just like the market for attendings. Those attendings that HAVE to live in a big city and get sub-$300k jobs aren't getting what they deserve, they're getting what they're willing to work for. You coulda told me about how much I'm getting boned on the $60/hr when I was a resident, and I still woulda worked it, because I wanted to keep putting something toward my debt each month, and buy my girl something nice for her birthday, etc.
We were offered 50$/hr to moonlight on OB, exactly half the 100$/hr the crna's were being paid.
We all passed.
Girlfriend is a psych resident and she gets 140/hr to moonlight!
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Remember that you aren't competing against their straight $100/hr rate, but their$150/hr overtime rate, since they aren't going to fill shifts with residents if they already have full time CRNA staff that haven't reached their 40 hours. So, really, you would have been saving them $100 per hour if you'd taken the bait versus what they would have ended up having to pay the CRNAs who put in the overtime.
This is much closer to the $100-120/hr that I've seen offered to FM & IM residents for moonlighting. This is why I can't fathom offering a specialty like anesthesia so little.
I know the staffing situation better than you since I was there. It was a 12 hour shift with no overtime. As I posted, we were offered half the crna rate. They had no benefits either in this particular position.
I am saying that offering $60/hr for resident moonlighting is insulting.
You have to consider that residents are extra clumsy and have most of the complications. Ie., dropped the central line wire, opened the wrong kit, dropped the spinal needle, opened 3 drugs that will never be used for the case, put 3 BIS stickers on same patient, let the vaporizer run dry and then push 5 of versed hoping there is no awareness, dislodged arytenoid during intubation....Resident pay, in general, is insulting...not just moonlighting.
You have to consider that residents are extra clumsy and have most of the complications. Ie., dropped the central line wire, opened the wrong kit, dropped the spinal needle, opened 3 drugs that will never be used for the case, put 3 BIS stickers on same patient, let the vaporizer run dry and then push 5 of versed hoping there is no awareness, dislodged arytenoid during intubation....
An old anesthesiologist I know says that once they got rid of the residents in his hospital the complications became very rare.
If government were not involved in fixing resident salaries, we would know the real market value of a resident.
We were offered 50$/hr to moonlight on OB, exactly half the 100$/hr the crna's were being paid.
We all passed.
I'm afraid that without the ACGME money psych residents might have even to pay to train since they don't lead to much revenue. That's my point. The market value is not playing a role due to goverment intervention.Those examples do not apply to the vast majority of the residents in a hospital. What kind of medical waste is a psychiatry resident creating? Residents are utilized as a labor force. That is a fact. They are not paid at an equal rate as other "practitioners," while doing a higher volume of more difficult work. They have to learn on top of performing these "clinical duties." Those mistakes you cited sound like CA1 errors. If a late year CA2 or CA3 is making those errors then there is a bigger problem.
As an aside, I have seen vastly more medical waste done by CRNAs than residents. When I'm supervising CRNAs and I go through the drawers while I'm giving a break, I find all sorts of unnecessary syringes and drugs drawn up, not to mention an ETT of every half size styleted with a syringe attached. Those all get thrown out at the end of every day.
Residents are grossly underpaid and that is a fact.
I'm afraid that without the ACGME money psych residents might have even to pay to train since they don't lead to much revenue. That's my point. The market value is not playing a role due to goverment intervention.
On the rare occasion that we get to moonlight we get $65/hr. Still don't understand why we don't get the CRNA rate when we're doing sicker patients for bigger surgeries. It's a bunch of malarkey!
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Market forces. They pay residents crap because they can. It's no more or less complicated than that.
Instead of moonlighting we just worked the hours without added pay...
50 bucks an hour is a lot better than that.
Then technically these are not market forces at work here. There is nothing about resident or fellow wages (moonlighting or otherwise) that resemble anything near a free market that would be acted upon by market forces. The only way to describe how residents and fellows are paid is by price-fixing. There is no law of supply and demand here.
Sure there is.
The market has X residents and Y available hours to be worked.
The program has an offer to buy labor at a quoted rate Z.
If the hours are filled by residents volunteering for them, the rate offered is enough. If the hours aren't being filled, the program will either raise the rate offered, or make the work a mandatory part of the residency program.
Just because it's a buyer's market, or you don't like the market, doesn't mean there isn't a market. Of course there is.