More Alternative PhDs

[PreMedJas]

I've noticed that some schools offer non-science PhDs, e.g. medical anthropology at Yale. I have a bunch of questions: What non-science MD-PhDs exist? How competetive are non-science MD-PhDs? What kind of work is available for graduates? What kinds of research are they involved in?

I am interested in a medical anthropology PhD as a means for eventually entering public policy research. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance for your help!

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[freddytn]

University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign allows you to do any of the PhD offered thorugh the University regardless of whether or not it is in the sciences. Some of the MD-PhD Students and Alumns from this program that I personally about range from the English, to Community Health, to Bioethics, and the list goes on.

If you are interested in public policy, it is an option to examine community health, MPHs, or perhaps pursue an MD/JD program. Those that I know about who are in the community health program here intend to go into public policy, one person I believe was doing linguistics, the person in bioethics became a pediatrician and does medical ethics for PSU. You are definitely not alone in this quandry.

There are scores many more students in our MD-PhD program who pursue non-science PhDs. You can check out http://www.med.uiuc.edu/msp/CurrStudMenu.asp and look for yourself in terms of the breakdown of the depts involved and the research those students are doing.

Good luck.

 

[stillsmilin]

I am interested in a medical anthropology PhD as a means for eventually entering public policy research. Any suggestions?

if youre interested in california, ucsd, ucla, and ucsf all allow students to research in any phd dept, med anthro included. i think ucsf has a separate app process for med anthro.

good luck!

 

[bbaek]

if youre interested in california, ucsd, ucla, and ucsf all allow students to research in any phd dept, med anthro included. i think ucsf has a separate app process for med anthro.

good luck!

are you saying that if i want to do an md/mph at say ucla, then i can also do a joint phd program still at ucla???

cause i'm looking for a program where i can get a phd program in english that also offers md/mph

 

[stillsmilin]

youd want to check with the school for those particulars, but in order to be eligible for the mstp grant, your phd should orient you towards biomedical research. the schools that dont limit phd options would still require that choices fall within that framework. for example, someone at one school was doing a phd in phil which isnt a common choice for mstps and not even allowed at some mstp programs, but he could have amde a strong case for medical ethics. even so, some programs severely limit phd choices - - at many other schools, the phil wouldnt even have been an option. BUT even at those programs, i imagine you could pursue any phd with the md if you applied to each independently. its the potential for funding thats uncertain. but definitely check places - - there may be other sources of funding. gluck

are you saying that if i want to do an md/mph at say ucla, then i can also do a joint phd program still at ucla???

cause i'm looking for a program where i can get a phd program in english that also offers md/mph

 

[bbaek]

youd want to check with the school for those particulars, but in order to be eligible for the mstp grant, your phd should orient you towards biomedical research. the schools that dont limit phd options would still require that choices fall within that framework. for example, someone at one school was doing a phd in phil which isnt a common choice for mstps and not even allowed at some mstp programs, but he could have amde a strong case for medical ethics. even so, some programs severely limit phd choices - - at many other schools, the phil wouldnt even have been an option. BUT even at those programs, i imagine you could pursue any phd with the md if you applied to each independently. its the potential for funding thats uncertain. but definitely check places - - there may be other sources of funding. gluck

thanks for the help! i was thinking about philosophy, but it seems pointless
rather just go into english.

but thanks for pointing out the relationship that it needs to be within the medical framework. that makes a lot of sense and i didn't quite think about that until now. i'll say that i want to use english to write about my experiences in the missionary field, which i really will be doing!

 

[atsai3]

I've noticed that some schools offer non-science PhDs, e.g. medical anthropology at Yale. I have a bunch of questions: What non-science MD-PhDs exist? How competetive are non-science MD-PhDs? What kind of work is available for graduates? What kinds of research are they involved in?

I am interested in a medical anthropology PhD as a means for eventually entering public policy research. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance for your help!

There aren't very many programs that are set up for you to pursue the MD/PhD with the PhD in a non-biomedical science field.

Some MSTP programs permit you to choose a non-science. For example, there is a student at the University of Wisconsin who is doing an MD/PhD in population sciences (demography), and another one at the University of Washington who is doing an MD/PhD in epidemiology, and both of them are doing it under the umbrella of their schools' respective MSTP programs. The same goes for Hopkins, Emory, and Minnesota.

Penn allows you to do the PhD in health economics and health systems management, and I think (but am not sure) that is also under the MSTP program. Harvard has a MD/PhD program in health policy. (Mark McClellan did his PhD in economics at MIT while at Harvard Medical School.)

Other notable physician-economists include Jeffrey Harris of MIT and Jose Escarce of UCLA. Also David Meltzer of UChicago. They have remained largely in academia while doing policy-relevant research.

Case Western Reserve has a fully funded MD/PhD program in health services research and policy, and you can also pursue a MD/PhD in anthropology. (Greg Pappas did his MD/PhD in anthropology at Case.) There is a student at UCSF doing a MD/PhD in anthropology, but I'm not sure if it is through the MSTP program.

I don't know of any MD/PhD programs in philosophy or bioethics, but I'm sure there are some out there -- maybe at St Louis University or Penn? There is a psychiatry resident at Duke who will complete a PhD in theology after he finishes his psychiatry residency.

Rita Charon has a PhD in english and teaches narrative medicine at Columbia. Danielle Ofri has a PhD in biochemistry but does a lot of writing.

Lastly: UCSF, Berkeley, and the NIH are sponsoring a "MD/PhD Social Science and Humanities Conference", to take place May 14-15, 2005. Here is the e-mail announcement I received:

Dear Respondent,

Thank you for your interest in the MD/PhD Social Science and Humanities Conference at UCSF!

Due to an wonderfully positive response to our conference, we have extended the registration deadline to allow us more time to assemble participants into appropriate break-out groups.

If you have not yet confirmed your registration, please do so by March 15th. If you have already e-mailed us, or if you do not plan to attend, please disregard this e-mail.

CONFIRMATION OF REGISTRATION
Please respond to [email protected] CONFIRMING YOUR PLANS TO ATTEND the conference BY MARCH 15th in order for us to save a spot for you. (If you must cancel at any point, please let us know as soon as possible to help us save money, food, and room
reservations.)

IN YOUR CONFIRMATION, INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING:
1) Your PhD institution (including discipline and date received/expected);
2) Your MD institution (including date received/expected);
3) If you need a letter of acceptance from UCSF to help you in applying to your institution for travel funds;
4) If you are interested in presenting original work of your own at the conference (most likely an oral presentation of around 15 minutes). If you are interested, give us an abstract up to 150 words of what you'd like to present.

Remember that our conference will focus on career and disciplinary issues facing scholars/students with joint degrees in medicine (MD) AND the social sciences/humanities (PhD). If you have or are planning on pursuing only one of these degrees or other joint medial/social science & humanities degrees, you are more than welcome at the conference, but we want to be explicit that the agenda is planned primarily for joint degree students.

BREAK-OUT SESSIONS
Once we have received all the conference registration confirmations, we will form breakout sessions on different interdisciplinary topics. You will be contacted regarding the topics of the different sessions being offered by late March.

FURTHER INFORMATION
The conference will take place at the University of California, San Francisco Parnassus Campus with the specific rooms to be announced.

Information on the Parnassus Campus:
http://www.ucsf.edu/maps/parnassus.pdf
Getting to and from campus:
http://www.ucsf.edu/maps/direction.html
Places to stay nearby:
http://www.campuslifeservices.ucsf.edu/housing/OffC_short_term.html

TENTATIVE SCHEDULE
Saturday May 14th, 2005 (specific rooms to be
announced)

8:00am Registration
8:30am Opening and Introduction (Planning Committee)
9:00am Keynote: Dr. Leon Eisenberg (Social Medicine & Psychiatry; Harvard U.) (The Future of Social Medicine in the Age of Genetics)
10:00am Breakout Session #1
12:00am Lunch/Poetry Reading: Dr. Rafael Campo (Internal Medicine; Harvard U.)
1:30pm Breakout Session #2
3:00pm Keynote: Dr. Paula Treichler (Communications Research; U Illinois) (Cultural Studies of Medicine)
4:00pm Large Group: Reports from Breakout Sessions
5:00pm Career Panel (Vernon Rosario, UCLA; Tom Denberg, U. Colorado Health Sciences Campus; Vinh-Kim Nguyen, McGill U.; Jodi Halpern, UCBerkeley; Rita Charon, Columbia U.; David Meltzer, U Chicago.)
7:00pm Wrap-up and Conclusion (Planning Committee)
7:30pm Walk to dinner at restaurants nearby (Sunset, Haight, Castro, etc.)

Sunday May 15th
9:30am Informal Breakfast (location to be announced): for those interested in talking about the possibility of future conferences, etc.

THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR INTEREST!
The Conference Planning Committee

CO-SPONSORS:
NIH Office of Behavioral and Social Science Research
NIH National Institute of General Medicine Sciences
UC San Francisco Department of Anthropology, History and Social Medicine
UC San Francisco Medical Scientist Training Program
UC San Francisco School of Medicine
UC San Francisco Graduate Division
UC San Francisco Center for Health and Community
UC San Francisco Institute for Health Policy
UC Berkeley Office for History of Science and Technology
UC Berkeley Program in Medicine, Law and the Humanities
Stanford University Department of Psychiatry
University of Illinois U/C Medical Scholars Program
​

You might consider going to this conference to get a few ideas.

Hope this helps
-AT.

 

[bbaek]

There aren't very many programs that are set up for you to pursue the MD/PhD with the PhD in a non-biomedical science field.

Some MSTP programs permit you to choose a non-science. For example, there is a student at the University of Wisconsin who is doing an MD/PhD in population sciences (demography), and another one at the University of Washington who is doing an MD/PhD in epidemiology, and both of them are doing it under the umbrella of their schools' respective MSTP programs. The same goes for Hopkins, Emory, and Minnesota.

Penn allows you to do the PhD in health economics and health systems management, and I think (but am not sure) that is also under the MSTP program. Harvard has a MD/PhD program in health policy. (Mark McClellan did his PhD in economics at MIT while at Harvard Medical School.)

Other notable physician-economists include Jeffrey Harris of MIT and Jose Escarce of UCLA. Also David Meltzer of UChicago. They have remained largely in academia while doing policy-relevant research.

Case Western Reserve has a fully funded MD/PhD program in health services research and policy, and you can also pursue a MD/PhD in anthropology. (Greg Pappas did his MD/PhD in anthropology at Case.) There is a student at UCSF doing a MD/PhD in anthropology, but I'm not sure if it is through the MSTP program.

I don't know of any MD/PhD programs in philosophy or bioethics, but I'm sure there are some out there -- maybe at St Louis University or Penn? There is a psychiatry resident at Duke who will complete a PhD in theology after he finishes his psychiatry residency.

Rita Charon has a PhD in english and teaches narrative medicine at Columbia. Danielle Ofri has a PhD in biochemistry but does a lot of writing.

Lastly: UCSF, Berkeley, and the NIH are sponsoring a "MD/PhD Social Science and Humanities Conference", to take place May 14-15, 2005. Here is the e-mail announcement I received:

Dear Respondent,

Thank you for your interest in the MD/PhD Social Science and Humanities Conference at UCSF!

Due to an wonderfully positive response to our conference, we have extended the registration deadline to allow us more time to assemble participants into appropriate break-out groups.

If you have not yet confirmed your registration, please do so by March 15th. If you have already e-mailed us, or if you do not plan to attend, please disregard this e-mail.

CONFIRMATION OF REGISTRATION
Please respond to [email protected] CONFIRMING YOUR PLANS TO ATTEND the conference BY MARCH 15th in order for us to save a spot for you. (If you must cancel at any point, please let us know as soon as possible to help us save money, food, and room
reservations.)

IN YOUR CONFIRMATION, INCLUDE THE FOLLOWING:
1) Your PhD institution (including discipline and date received/expected);
2) Your MD institution (including date received/expected);
3) If you need a letter of acceptance from UCSF to help you in applying to your institution for travel funds;
4) If you are interested in presenting original work of your own at the conference (most likely an oral presentation of around 15 minutes). If you are interested, give us an abstract up to 150 words of what you'd like to present.

Remember that our conference will focus on career and disciplinary issues facing scholars/students with joint degrees in medicine (MD) AND the social sciences/humanities (PhD). If you have or are planning on pursuing only one of these degrees or other joint medial/social science & humanities degrees, you are more than welcome at the conference, but we want to be explicit that the agenda is planned primarily for joint degree students.

BREAK-OUT SESSIONS
Once we have received all the conference registration confirmations, we will form breakout sessions on different interdisciplinary topics. You will be contacted regarding the topics of the different sessions being offered by late March.

FURTHER INFORMATION
The conference will take place at the University of California, San Francisco Parnassus Campus with the specific rooms to be announced.

Information on the Parnassus Campus:
http://www.ucsf.edu/maps/parnassus.pdf
Getting to and from campus:
http://www.ucsf.edu/maps/direction.html
Places to stay nearby:
http://www.campuslifeservices.ucsf.edu/housing/OffC_short_term.html

TENTATIVE SCHEDULE
Saturday May 14th, 2005 (specific rooms to be
announced)

8:00am Registration
8:30am Opening and Introduction (Planning Committee)
9:00am Keynote: Dr. Leon Eisenberg (Social Medicine & Psychiatry; Harvard U.) (The Future of Social Medicine in the Age of Genetics)
10:00am Breakout Session #1
12:00am Lunch/Poetry Reading: Dr. Rafael Campo (Internal Medicine; Harvard U.)
1:30pm Breakout Session #2
3:00pm Keynote: Dr. Paula Treichler (Communications Research; U Illinois) (Cultural Studies of Medicine)
4:00pm Large Group: Reports from Breakout Sessions
5:00pm Career Panel (Vernon Rosario, UCLA; Tom Denberg, U. Colorado Health Sciences Campus; Vinh-Kim Nguyen, McGill U.; Jodi Halpern, UCBerkeley; Rita Charon, Columbia U.; David Meltzer, U Chicago.)
7:00pm Wrap-up and Conclusion (Planning Committee)
7:30pm Walk to dinner at restaurants nearby (Sunset, Haight, Castro, etc.)

Sunday May 15th
9:30am Informal Breakfast (location to be announced): for those interested in talking about the possibility of future conferences, etc.

THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR INTEREST!
The Conference Planning Committee

CO-SPONSORS:
NIH Office of Behavioral and Social Science Research
NIH National Institute of General Medicine Sciences
UC San Francisco Department of Anthropology, History and Social Medicine
UC San Francisco Medical Scientist Training Program
UC San Francisco School of Medicine
UC San Francisco Graduate Division
UC San Francisco Center for Health and Community
UC San Francisco Institute for Health Policy
UC Berkeley Office for History of Science and Technology
UC Berkeley Program in Medicine, Law and the Humanities
Stanford University Department of Psychiatry
University of Illinois U/C Medical Scholars Program
​

You might consider going to this conference to get a few ideas.

Hope this helps
-AT.

is there any scholarship or financial subsidies for students on this? i live in irvine, which is all the way in socal and i can't just get money to fly up north to attend this conference. if you know of anything that can help i would definitely appreciate it!

 

[bbaek]

bumpity bump!