More pubs or licensure?

[HomeworkHelper]

Hi all,

I have a decision I will need to make in the coming months. I'm currently partway through the first year of a 2-year postdoc. This fall I will be applying for assistant professor positions. I likely won't be competitive for heavy research institutions (I imagine, if all goes well, I will only have 8-10 pubs published or under review by then) but maybe a middle tier place. I have very strong clinical training and teaching experience, so I will hopefully be competitive at places that value someone who is interested in teaching and supervising practicum in addition to research. The question is, in deciding how to spend my time this summer, I'm trying to figure out whether to study for the EPPP and get licensed or spend those precious hours continuing to work on publications. By the time I would apply for jobs, I would have all my hours and would only need to take the EPPP. Would that be enough? Or would you think it would be a significant advantage to be licensed by the time I apply? I would otherwise study and take the EPPP in spring/summer 2015 and get licensed prior to starting the position.

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[Therapist4Chnge]

Licensed....then there is no question if you can get licensed. Odd things can happen to hold up the process, so the quicker you get it out of the way the better.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Licensed....then there is no question if you can get licensed. Odd things can happen to hold up the process, so the quicker you get it out of the way the better.

I personally would agree with this. Get the EPPP and licensing out of the way now, as typically seems to be the case that the earlier you take it, the better. Also, and this is just my take, try not to overstudy for the EPPP. Mind you I applied primarily for clinical positions, but I can say from those first-hand experiences that being licensed as opposed to license-eligible does make a difference. Oh, and don't sell yourself short on R1-type positions (if that's something in which you're interested). 8-10 pubs is nothing to sneeze at, and there's no harm in applying and seeing how things go.

 

[WisNeuro]

As for the licensing, if you know what state you are definitely going to be in, get it. Makes you look better for jobs that require clinical work or supervision. If you don't know where you will be yet (not geographically limited in the job search), go ahead and take the EPPP and then license right away after you secure a job.

 

[PsyDr]

The second best advice I ever got was to look at the lifestyle of your desired profession, not the job.

For me, money brings security so I went into clinical practice. I am neighbors with a department head, so one of us did something right.

 

[Pragma]

Why not both? That's basically what I did. EPPP doesn't need to take over your life...

 

[WisNeuro]

Why not both? That's basically what I did. EPPP doesn't need to take over your life...

Exactly, couple hours a day for a few weeks, done. Most people vastly overstudy for that thing.

 

[HomeworkHelper]

While certainly I think it's tempting to say "why not both", there is a real expenditure of time that studying for the EPPP will take that will detract from time spend on other things. Even if I study 100-150 hours, that's real time that might amount to some number of additional publications. I also can't pull time away from free time really because I'm already working significantly more than 40 hours as it is. :-/

 

[psypsypsy]

I don't know....I don't want to disagree with people, but I think the pubs may be more important (or honestly, getting a grant ready to submit might even be best!). I was in the same position as you (currently a second year postdoc, went on the job market this year, and successfully landed an assistant professor job in clinical psych). I wrote in my letters that I would have successfully completed my hours by the time I was done, and would then be license-eligible (had this wording looked over by multiple clinical psych people who approved it). I never put in that I either had or hadn't completed the EPPP, but in the in-person and phone interviews, I clearly said I hadn't and was planning on taking the EPPP this spring/summer (which I'm studying for now). No one ever seemed to have any issues with it or noted any problems. Given the problems with transferring licenses, none seemed to expect that my license would be ready in that state come August anyway (there are jurisprudence exams, oral exams, and other aspects that can delay a license for months anyway). The ones that would have wanted me to supervise that fall said that they usually have to have a co-signer on notes that first semester for any of their faculty because of those issues.

I mean, I certainly applied for a number of jobs and didn't get a lot of those interviews, so it may have contributed to the ones I didn't get. But my guess is that had more to do with other factors than the licensing issues.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

psypsypsy I've seen similar scenarios (supervision for the first semester/year), particularly in Canada where you have to declare an area of competency and jump through even more hoops than here in the US. It is pretty typical for people when applying from post-doc/fellowship to be somewhere in the process of studying/taking the EPPP, so the vast majority of places understand what is involved with the process; it is still important to clarify where you are in the process (like you did on the phone interviews). All of that being said, the EPPP is enough of a hurdle that it may give someone pause because it takes time to schedule, take, wait for results, etc.

 

[Pragma]

Well if you want to be within academia, you don't want any publishing gaps. At least churn out 1-2 pubs the year that you are studying for the EPPP.

Everyone has different limits, but postdocs very often require more than 40 hours per week (40 would be atypical, unless you are at a government job). Postdoc is a rough period, but I personally would suggest giving up some of your free time to accomplish more and land a solid job. Relax after. That said, I found postdoc to be so stressful for that reason, but I am glad I stuck it out and kept my priorities straight, as it landed me the right opportunities. For what it is worth, I work in academia and also do clinical work on the side, and my publications have gotten me even more clinical opportunities than I initially had. The license just gets your foot in the door at some places, and after that, it is meaningless (just a fee and some CEUs to maintain).

 

[EmotRegulation]

My vote would be focusing on pubs. You can take the EPPP in the spring after you have a job offer in hand. Institutions will likely want you to be licensed before you start, but likely won't matter much on the front end, although there are likely exceptions. I applied to academic jobs from internship and had no problem getting licensed once I got here--as long as I eventually became licensed, no one cared about that. They DID care about research productivity and teaching.

Remember that you're going to need to be licensed in whatever state you move to for your job, and there will be different rules by state, so just get the job first (emphasis on pubs) and pursue licensure once you've signed the contract.

 

[Ollie123]

Not there yet myself, but I'd err on the side of pubs unless you are looking exclusively at programs that lean much more clinical (e.g. PsyD programs). I imagine few places expect people to be licensed during the application cycle if they are still a post-doc. Another way of looking at it is not just what matters more, but what is the likelihood it will matter. Publications will help virtually everywhere, but many programs won't expect you to be licensed yet. Depending on their needs/expectations for faculty they may not care if you ever pursue licensure - especially if you are looking outside clinical/counseling departments.

Also probably worth noting that unless I'm mistaken, everyone recommending licensure over publications is in a primarily clinical position