MS3/MS4 Case Report Opportunity

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ajs321

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I am looking for an MS3/MS4 interested in IM related case reports. I have a few cases and a research project - all of which have been outlined and abstract'ed. Just needs to be converted to manuscript.

If interested, let me know. Shoot me a message. You will be granted 2nd author title.

Goal: lower level impact factor journals. Candidly, going for quantity of publications to beef up resume and PubMed search-ability. Very good for future fellowship/residency applications.

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You're offering 2nd author for writing the whole manuscript? lol
 
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Why isn't this being offered to M1s and M2s as well?
 
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Also pretty sure this should be moved to the help wanted section
 
You're offering 2nd author for writing the whole manuscript? lol

Haha, right? It's one thing to say that the OP wants lead on the research project but will make someone else lead on the case reports (which is okay-ish to begin with) but ouch.
 
why not offer it to the MS students at your program.
 
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You're offering 2nd author for writing the whole manuscript? lol

2nd author wouldn't be bad depending on how thorough the "outline" mentioned in OP is. For example if the manuscript is already written and just needs to be formatted to fit the journal's requirements I would gladly do that for 2nd author.
 
I'm an M1 and pretty inexperienced when it comes to research so I wanted to throw this out as a question: is it frowned upon to do what the OP is asking for from an ethical standpoint? Like can someone just have a bunch of cases and then pawn them off to an amazing writer who just writes them all up and get a bunch of publications or just pay people to write my stuff for me and get publications without doing the work? I might be off base here but it feels weird to be able to have people write up your cases then you get the credit for it, like how would you respond during residency interviews when they ask your extent of involvement in the project? Would like some advice on this topic if you guys have any insight
 
The first author should be the actual author of the work
 
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I'm an M1 and pretty inexperienced when it comes to research so I wanted to throw this out as a question: is it frowned upon to do what the OP is asking for from an ethical standpoint? Like can someone just have a bunch of cases and then pawn them off to an amazing writer who just writes them all up and get a bunch of publications or just pay people to write my stuff for me and get publications without doing the work? I might be off base here but it feels weird to be able to have people write up your cases then you get the credit for it, like how would you respond during residency interviews when they ask your extent of involvement in the project? Would like some advice on this topic if you guys have any insight

they are called ghost writers. happens all the time.
 
So not unethical or looked down upon? Because like you wont have even met this person in real life so you wont be able to get a LOR from them or anything but its gonna be weird when on ERAS you have like 5 papers with someone and you dont even know who they are in real life lol..maybe im just not thinking clearly
 
So not unethical or looked down upon? Because like you wont have even met this person in real life so you wont be able to get a LOR from them or anything but its gonna be weird when on ERAS you have like 5 papers with someone and you dont even know who they are in real life lol..maybe im just not thinking clearly

You're not getting a LOR from a resident or fellow anyway (or you shouldnt be).
 
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So not unethical or looked down upon? Because like you wont have even met this person in real life so you wont be able to get a LOR from them or anything but its gonna be weird when on ERAS you have like 5 papers with someone and you dont even know who they are in real life lol..maybe im just not thinking clearly

It is his idea and his data. He is offering something but is asking for something in return. I do not see anything wrong with it, though .... i would not trust a stranger over the internet writing my manuscript, let alone a med student (no offense)
 
I am looking for an MS3/MS4 interested in IM related case reports. I have a few cases and a research project - all of which have been outlined and abstract'ed. Just needs to be converted to manuscript.

If interested, let me know. Shoot me a message. You will be granted 2nd author title.

Goal: lower level impact factor journals. Candidly, going for quantity of publications to beef up resume and PubMed search-ability. Very good for future fellowship/residency applications.

As as former researcher and a published author, there is no way I'd do all that work for anything less than first author (nor should anybody else). The rule in research is if you write the manuscript, you get first author. But of course you probably know that already. So please don't try to con people on here who are maybe less savvy re the rules of research into doing your work for you.
 
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First/second author aside, I find it hard to believe that OP has to resort to SDN to find a medical student willing to help out. I work for a school with little emphasis on research, and it's still quite easy to find medical students eager to help out with projects.
 
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First/second author aside, I find it hard to believe that OP has to resort to SDN to find a medical student willing to help out. I work for a school with little emphasis on research, and it's still quite easy to find medical students eager to help out with projects.

Are you insinuating something or am I reading too much into this
 
The real question is who is going to be the last author? Does the OP honestly think that the senior author is going to be fine with the idea of her/him adding some completely unknown author to these manuscripts?

"Who's this?" I'd ask, eyeing the OP suspiciously whilst twirling my mustache menacingly.

"Oh, some random med student from the internet, she wrote the case report for me. I've never even been to the state where she attends medical school, lol," the OP would reply, averting my gaze.

"Thank you for your time, goodbye," I'd say, destroying your reputation in my department with a wave of my hand.

Or was she/he going to misrepresent her/his contribution to the manuscript? That is a very big no-no, all kidding aside.

Learning to write for scientific publication is a skill, and you won't always have the luxury of finding someone else to do it for you. Now is the time to learn to do it in a comparatively low-pressure environment. And honestly, it's a case report. Given how much outlining you must have done to be able to give it to someone else to finish, you should be able to hammer a good draft out in an afternoon in the library. Bite the bullet and do it.
 
The real question is who is going to be the last author? Does the OP honestly think that the senior author is going to be fine with the idea of her/him adding some completely unknown author to these manuscripts?

"Who's this?" I'd ask, eyeing the OP suspiciously whilst twirling my mustache menacingly.

"Oh, some random med student from the internet, she wrote the case report for me. I've never even been to the state where she attends medical school, lol," the OP would reply, averting my gaze.

"Thank you for your time, goodbye," I'd say, destroying your reputation in my department with a wave of my hand.

Or was she/he going to misrepresent her/his contribution to the manuscript? That is a very big no-no, all kidding aside.

Learning to write for scientific publication is a skill, and you won't always have the luxury of finding someone else to do it for you. Now is the time to learn to do it in a comparatively low-pressure environment. And honestly, it's a case report. Given how much outlining you must have done to be able to give it to someone else to finish, you should be able to hammer a good draft out in an afternoon in the library. Bite the bullet and do it.

Don't residents do this all the type like pawn off case reports to med students? The only unethical thing is the authorship order right?
 
Don't residents do this all the type like pawn off case reports to med students? The only unethical thing is the authorship order right?

Residents giving away cool cases to eager medical students and helping them write up a case report with the student as a first author is wonderful and altruistic and paying it forward. Finding someone desperate on the internet who you've never met to write it for you and then putting your name at the top seems unfair to me, and runs the risk of being disingenuous and mendacious if the roles are not explicitly stated. As a PI I would never endorse that sort of behavior. If you don't have the time to write up a case, then fine, either don't do it or give it to someone else and be happy with whatever author position you're left with.
 
Don't residents do this all the type like pawn off case reports to med students? The only unethical thing is the authorship order right?

No and no.

Residents with any sense of self worth write their own papers, or take more junior residents through the process. Having a medical student write your manuscriot is like asking a middle schooler to take the SAT for you. There is no reason to expect them to have the requisite level of knowledge on how to write a medical manuscript, nor are they likely to possess a solid foundation of knowledge in your specialty.

If you want to get technical, the issue is not author order, but authorship at all. Based on the description of the OP, a medical student writing this manuscriopt would only warrant an acknowledgement, not authorship.

http://www.icmje.org/recommendation...ing-the-role-of-authors-and-contributors.html

(A) Case reports are incredibly low yield. Most journals don't even publish them these days. I don't know any residents who've even done one.

(B) having a med student write a paper for you is painful. The old House of God rule "show me a med student who only triples my work and I will kiss your feet" holds even more true for research. For any of my projects, I can write it myself in less time, fewer drafts, and far less pain than if I have to walk a student through it. I've done it because the mentoring was important to me, but man is it trying.

I have written one case report myself. I am second author on 4 others, all written by medical students/undergrads. If it weren't for the pretty pictures, I doubt any of them would have actually been accepted anywhere. I have 5-6 other case reports in varying states of completion/waiting for journals to get back to us. My model is to give students the case, H&P, op notes, pictures, and a copy of the latest JVS opened to the case report section. I then ask them to template a case report based on those things. Their draft is typically 'terrible', but if you have good students, it will have all of the content that they need. I basically re-write it and then we talk about why I changed 90% of the stuff that they wrote. Most of it is lingo or stuff they would have no way of knowing. It is incredibly time consuming and yes, I could write it faster myself. The part that I usually have them hold off on writing is the discussion section, unless I already have other articles for them to read and think about while writing. The first two that I did with someone else I had to throw out their entire discussion and write it myself, so I just write it with them now.

I do it because like SS said it is about mentorship. I enjoy it, even though it can be incredibly painful at time. I do not let students write my actual papers. If one of them was the primary driver on any of them, I'd give them a shot, but it is hard enough for me to be learning medical writing and what journals want without having to teach someone as I go along. They can help with data gather, analysis, statistics, background research, etc. But, I generally don't have them help me write.
 
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I have written one case report myself. I am second author on 4 others, all written by medical students/undergrads. If it weren't for the pretty pictures, I doubt any of them would have actually been accepted anywhere. I have 5-6 other case reports in varying states of completion/waiting for journals to get back to us. My model is to give students the case, H&P, op notes, pictures, and a copy of the latest JVS opened to the case report section. I then ask them to template a case report based on those things. Their draft is typically 'terrible', but if you have good students, it will have all of the content that they need. I basically re-write it and then we talk about why I changed 90% of the stuff that they wrote. Most of it is lingo or stuff they would have no way of knowing. It is incredibly time consuming and yes, I could write it faster myself. The part that I usually have them hold off on writing is the discussion section, unless I already have other articles for them to read and think about while writing. The first two that I did with someone else I had to throw out their entire discussion and write it myself, so I just write it with them now.

I do it because like SS said it is about mentorship. I enjoy it, even though it can be incredibly painful at time. I do not let students write my actual papers. If one of them was the primary driver on any of them, I'd give them a shot, but it is hard enough for me to be learning medical writing and what journals want without having to teach someone as I go along. They can help with data gather, analysis, statistics, background research, etc. But, I generally don't have them help me write.

You sound like an excellent mentor.
 
So does anyone understand why the OP is doing this given all the negative feedback he's gotten? Some people questioning why he cant find med students at his own institution and others saying this is unethical..maybe hes had a change of heart
 
So does anyone understand why the OP is doing this given all the negative feedback he's gotten? Some people questioning why he cant find med students at his own institution and others saying this is unethical..maybe hes had a change of heart

Theres no consequences to abusing some desperate med student from the internet.
 
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