seems crazy.. he deserves a lot more if its true imo
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/03/nj_court_awards_former_student.html
http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2011/03/nj_court_awards_former_student.html
N.J. court awards former student $2M in UMDNJ expulsion case
- Thread starter omaralt
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I agree...
I usually like to hear both sides of the story... unfortunately, there were no sides to this one, just a bunch of facts of what took place.
Only thing I am curious about is... why can't he attend a different dental school now and finish up his degree? since he was wrongfully kicked out... wouldn't another dental school take him in and allow him to finish?
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Which means there is more to this story than the article even knows about.
Some interesting facts though. Why was he kicked out if his patient loved him.
Who hasn't caused a small 1-2mm cut in the mouth? This is one of the first words we learn about, 'iatrogenic' Sharp instruments, rapidly spinning burs and unsteady hands...it is bound to happen.
Maybe he refused to make a progress note that day. Maybe he told a professor off. Whatever. This is why dentists tell predents to 'fly under the radar'.
Meh.
This could have easily snow balled from something small to something quite large.
I have come to be suspicious of people who claimed to have been screwed over.
Poor patient though. Getting some cuts was the least of the issue. Probably had to show up to court and fight nasty questions from attorneys.
This could have easily snow balled from something small to something quite large.
I have come to be suspicious of people who claimed to have been screwed over.
Poor patient though. Getting some cuts was the least of the issue. Probably had to show up to court and fight nasty questions from attorneys.
Of course there is more to the story, but don't you think the court heard the full story and then made its decision against the school. Come on, it's not that easy to sue for 2 million dollars.
The jury also heard the full story in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants and awarded the plaintiff $2.86 million. They are not perfect dispensers of justice.
There is no meat to this article. It does not even state why he was expelled, so its a little difficult to judge whether UMDNJ was wrong to expel him. I'm just suggesting people not jump to conclusions and bash the school or Vladimer when only the end result is known, and not the events leading to it.
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I am wondering the same thing. Do professors and school officials really have the power to ruin a dental student's future like that? Say hypothetically, a dental student completes every competency that is required of him or her as they move through the program, but for some reason down the line has a confrontation with a professor, or personalities that clash eventually butt heads, can something like this really put a dental student's future in jeopardy? I agree there is probably more to the story here, but I'm having a hard time reconciling this idea.
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it could be that he doesn't wanna pursue dentistry anymore... I mean the guy is studying computers now.
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Professional schools are different from undergrad, in a sense each student is worth ~300k and you can only accept 100-150. So you need to make the decision wisely. Would you rather chose a guy with good grades and kicked out of a dental school, over a guy with good grades and did not even attend a dental school.
No one i going to jump of a blue moon to defend anyone they do not know, and there is no reason to get to know that person either b/c there are many more deserving students who have not give the opportunities that this student has.
Plus, Obviously there wont be any details included in a news article they need to keep it short and concise to get the info out. If you have like 100 page article who is going to read that.
Regarding UMDNJ: things like these are common in that school, on our interview day we were lied to our faces in a sense they dont talk about certain stuff. Leave it.
Regarding Student: Wtf is he thinking he could have waited and became a general dentist and earn good $ then doing comp sci w/ bio degree. Leave it.
Does that mean the tuition is going to increase this coming year? just like it has spiked up 21% right before the school started last year forcing students to take more loans? I hope not. I hope this bast**d didnt hit umdnj that hard.
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Yes, a large number of dental school professors are losers and aholes. Just quietly serve your four year dental school as a jail sentence and then graduate and go on with your life.
reminds me a situation at my school. A student in clinic (D3 or D4) was angry and threatened to harm a faculty member. He was dismissed from school.
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It certainly can. I've learnt that professors are some of the most insecure folks out there.
Challenge them and face thy wrath. I've seen it happen a couple of times.
That story may not have both sides but the jury sure did! So, my judgement is safe to side with them
It's especially convincing reading the quote from the patient! Probably the egotistical, arrogant professor out to make a point and ruin a kids future...
It's especially convincing reading the quote from the patient! Probably the egotistical, arrogant professor out to make a point and ruin a kids future...Do you think maybe he is scared to go back into it? I think I woulld be a little scared that something might happen like this again or professors would always be lurking over my shoulder. His reputation is probably ruined -- warranted or not... I amy switch paths too.
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who knows...right?
Me personally, I always take emotions out and make decisions based on what benefits me.... The guy has an AMAZING head start, he has 2 million in the bank, imagine if he graduates with DDS... tuition loan free and a large pile leftover for a new practice (loan free too).
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That story may not have both sides but the jury sure did! So, my judgement is safe to side with them
This does ring true a lot, but many times in a jury trial you are judged by 'idiots'. Not really idiots, but in medicine, most jurors do not know what it takes to be in the health profession, usually side with the 'victim' and don't know how to understand many of the facts that we take for granted because of our education.
For all we know Jason was 'victimized' by this big bad institution (which has made many headlines for a dental school over the past 5-7 years) because he accidentally nicked his poor patient who only has excellent things to say about Jason btw. A jury might have been willing to look past the fact that Jason said some nasty things to this 'mean, old, grouchy' professor who 'has had it out for him since day one.' If an attorney can't paint a vivid picture about the schools 'big bad wolf persona' and how they 'destroyed my clients life, income, reputation, etc.', then they can convince this jury of 'idiots' to reward him with money.
This could also have easily gone the other way. Get some people to testify against Jason, the stubborn, know-it-all, who constantly berates his professors, is argumentative, uncaring, sloppy, etc. then the school might be holding on to that cash.
Something like this will most likely settle for far less than 2million anyway.
Thats why I say to go to Temple.
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I bet that if you polled 99.999% of dentists(and even that might be a low percentage) who regularly use a handpiece, that have been in practice for more than say a month, if they've had a small, iatrogenic soft tissue knick with a bur the answer would be "yes"
Just saying......
That's the problem sometimes with a "jury of one's peers". Even a semi-decent attorney, can play off the EMOTIONAL response of a jury, instead of using rational thought
Just saying......
That's the problem sometimes with a "jury of one's peers". Even a semi-decent attorney, can play off the EMOTIONAL response of a jury, instead of using rational thought
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I have seen two very good students kicked out of my D school. Both cases involved the same douche bag, insecure professor who seems to pick someone from the class each year to have thrown out. It is difficult to even find a good attorney in cases like this as the courts have historically stayed away from deciding cases involving academics. Courts generally agree that it is up to the school to determine who meets the criteria of academic/professional compentancy.
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They say that $2 mil doesn't go far anymore. Maybe some student loans will be paid off following the lawyer's 80% take.
hello,
I have reviewed this thread. The other day when I was driving I received a call about something similar and had no ideas then. I thought of some, but no not have the name of #. It did not sound like the student in question's name here.
If that person would call me back
I have reviewed this thread. The other day when I was driving I received a call about something similar and had no ideas then. I thought of some, but no not have the name of #. It did not sound like the student in question's name here.
If that person would call me back
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Due process is due process. Maybe the student did some stuff that was worse than what the article stated. Regardless, there HAS to be due process. There's no way around it. Universities that have been around for generations should know better. They can't just do anything they want.
The last case posted on here was about Michigan kicking out some girl who downright did some horrendous things, but there was lack of due process. It's the same mistakes over and over again.
The last case posted on here was about Michigan kicking out some girl who downright did some horrendous things, but there was lack of due process. It's the same mistakes over and over again.
true we don't know the entire story, I was asked if I could recommend dental schools, I was driving, and i never asked questions, that is why I hoped the person would call back... so i can relook at situation... I finally read the article here... but it seems old... the story i thought i heard it was this year
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i hate seeing stuff like this
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I am not surprised. My guess is student must have pissed some of the superiors off (what ever the reason, not necessarily his mistake with the patient) and that's what caused him a career. I can imgaine that could easily be possible at New Jersey Dental School. Some one got to stop this kind of madness. Feel sorry for the student.
In past, many dentists have made way major mistake than what the student made here. In most cases, results were malpractice and financial compensation to the patients. Sounds reasonable. Taking the student's life away for the mistake described in the article here, no way close to reasonable. 2M is nothing compare to what he might have lost. I would say get to bottom of this and see who is truly responsible for his expelled and get his/her lic away. That would be fair !!!
In past, many dentists have made way major mistake than what the student made here. In most cases, results were malpractice and financial compensation to the patients. Sounds reasonable. Taking the student's life away for the mistake described in the article here, no way close to reasonable. 2M is nothing compare to what he might have lost. I would say get to bottom of this and see who is truly responsible for his expelled and get his/her lic away. That would be fair !!!
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$2 million is equal to $4.5 million before before paying taxes for working in NY and LA. That's 20 years of working at $225k annually in the most unhealthy occupation. Forget dentistry. Use $1mil to buy a bunch foreclosures in the ghetto somewhere and that should bring you $200k a year. Invest the rest in oil for long term. Your life is set. forget dentistry. There is another world out there to be happy and to make money other than dentistry. CONGRATS!!!
