Navy HPSP not meeting goal

[Teufelhunden]

Anyone else heard? Supposedly, for this year's 1st year med school classes, the Navy has signed only ~140-150...and there are ~290 spots!

I hear they may try to sell more 3 year scholarships to M2's, but that certainly isn't going to close the gap.

I'm just wondering what will happen once that class hits the PGY1 year....I'm betting the Navy will fill it's GMO billets, and that GME will inevitably suffer (?)

What have you all heard? And how do you think this will affect those of us who are already in? Stop-losses?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[militarymd]

Are you on VFRdiscussions also?

 

[Teufelhunden]

Are you on VFRdiscussions also?

No. What is VFRdiscussions?

 

[militarymd]

No. What is VFRdiscussions?

There is a guy on vfrdiscussions forum with a sign on like yours, an avatar that is the marine cross insignia, and is located in VA.

 

[bogatyr]

The medical corps people told us the Army is short this year too, they've signed up about 250 out of 300. They said their goal will be to offer more advanced scholarships, but I think it's easier to hook students before they start medical school and they realize that they don't need the Army to pay the bills.

 

[bustbones26]

Useless to try to offer more advanced scholarships. They ought to really push FAP!

On a brighter note, less scholarships means less competition for residency slots. Of course, its too late for me, but for you future guys, its a bright note.

 

[helo doc]

It's completely true. I recently received a forwarded copy of an email from a Navy O-6 type stating that there were only 152 of 290 4yr HPSP scholarships awarded for fiscal year 05. And yes, they are going to try and make up the difference by trying to sign on that many additional 3yr scholarships in FY06 (in addition to their regular goal). The email called out for volunteers, especially MC officers, to work in conjunction with recruiters and help them reach the goal. Good luck with that.

Let's see how we could sell the scholarship.... imagine if you will that X-MMD, Island Doc and the gang show up with some flyers that hit the highlights of Navy Medicine:
Frequent deployments and quality time away from family.
Spend time in the kill zone of a increasingly unpopular war - with no exit strategy in sight!!
Stagnant pay and benefits - even a few lucky specialties such as radiology have seen bonus pay go down this fiscal year!! (As civilian sector pay continually rises).
The uncertainties of entering military medicine in a time of unheralded realignments, closures and civilian contracting.
Almost guaranteed interruption in your graduate medical education - experience true operational medicine and let your skills truly decay.
Fair and equitable job assignment process (a shout out to x-MMD).
More collateral duties and useless administrative work than you'll ever have the chance to experience otherwise.
Wonderful opportunities to work directly for nurses and have them power trip on you at every given opportunity.
I could go on, lest I develop carpal tunnel syndrome from typing too much.

Face it, Navy medicine is in the proverbial hurt locker. There was a time when I would have actually volunteered to help recruit potential HPSP students. I could not do it now and look myself in the mirror the next day, or ever.

 

[USAFdoc]

It's completely true. I recently received a forwarded copy of an email from a Navy O-6 type stating that there were only 152 of 290 4yr HPSP scholarships awarded for fiscal year 05. And yes, they are going to try and make up the difference by trying to sign on that many additional 3yr scholarships in FY06 (in addition to their regular goal). The email called out for volunteers, especially MC officers, to work in conjunction with recruiters and help them reach the goal. Good luck with that.

Let's see how we could sell the scholarship.... imagine if you will that X-MMD, Island Doc and the gang show up with some flyers that hit the highlights of Navy Medicine:
Frequent deployments and quality time away from family.
Spend time in the kill zone of a increasingly unpopular war - with no exit strategy in sight!!
Stagnant pay and benefits - even a few lucky specialties such as radiology have seen bonus pay go down this fiscal year!! (As civilian sector pay continually rises).
The uncertainties of entering military medicine in a time of unheralded realignments, closures and civilian contracting.
Almost guaranteed interruption in your graduate medical education - experience true operational medicine and let your skills truly decay.
Fair and equitable job assignment process (a shout out to x-MMD).
More collateral duties and useless administrative work than you'll ever have the chance to experience otherwise.
Wonderful opportunities to work directly for nurses and have them power trip on you at every given opportunity.
I could go on, lest I develop carpal tunnel syndrome from typing too much.

Face it, Navy medicine is in the proverbial hurt locker. There was a time when I would have actually volunteered to help recruit potential HPSP students. I could not do it now and look myself in the mirror the next day, or ever.

ditto here. I could not ever advise people to enter the military medicine realm at this time. And it is not because of the long work hours; heck we all did the 80+ hours a week inresidency. What I am concerned about is an undermanned, underexperienced health care work force (docs) that is being pressured from above to "see more patients, go faster, etc", a health care force that has full responsibility but no autonomy or authority to make the necessary changes to improve care and morale for all. Lastly, HPSPers may have to one day work under IgD, and that is unacceptable.

It is NOT typically this way or this bad in the civilian medical world.

 

[island doc]

It's completely true. I recently received a forwarded copy of an email from a Navy O-6 type stating that there were only 152 of 290 4yr HPSP scholarships awarded for fiscal year 05. And yes, they are going to try and make up the difference by trying to sign on that many additional 3yr scholarships in FY06 (in addition to their regular goal). The email called out for volunteers, especially MC officers, to work in conjunction with recruiters and help them reach the goal. Good luck with that.

Let's see how we could sell the scholarship.... imagine if you will that X-MMD, Island Doc and the gang show up with some flyers that hit the highlights of Navy Medicine:
Frequent deployments and quality time away from family.
Spend time in the kill zone of a increasingly unpopular war - with no exit strategy in sight!!
Stagnant pay and benefits - even a few lucky specialties such as radiology have seen bonus pay go down this fiscal year!! (As civilian sector pay continually rises).
The uncertainties of entering military medicine in a time of unheralded realignments, closures and civilian contracting.
Almost guaranteed interruption in your graduate medical education - experience true operational medicine and let your skills truly decay.
Fair and equitable job assignment process (a shout out to x-MMD).
More collateral duties and useless administrative work than you'll ever have the chance to experience otherwise.
Wonderful opportunities to work directly for nurses and have them power trip on you at every given opportunity.
I could go on, lest I develop carpal tunnel syndrome from typing too much.

Face it, Navy medicine is in the proverbial hurt locker. There was a time when I would have actually volunteered to help recruit potential HPSP students. I could not do it now and look myself in the mirror the next day, or ever.

Hey gang, I couldn't have said it any better myself. Bravo!!! Above applies to the AFMS as well.

Uh oh, I think I am being directly challenged here in my role as "Chief SDN Military Medicine Basher" AKA Ceasar.

 

[curlycorday]

Hi all,

So, here's the breakdown of what I've discovered so far about Navy HPSP:

- I was 'field selected' for this program based on my gpa/mcat scores;
- I am applying to med school in fall 2006
- I want to ultimately go into primary care and have a family
- I haven't signed anything yet, but this is what I know so far and would really like input from current military mds, etc.

So, for all other pre-meds out there, hopefully this helps:

The HPSP program: you apply, you get accepted, you are commisioned as an officer (O1 in whatever branch) and you go off to med school, you do 45 adt every year, you go to OIS, you owe year-for-year service; which as I understand it (for emergency medicine) from my recruiter is 1 GMO tour, followed by 3 yr military residency, and commitment would be 3 years (4 yr HPSP -1yr GMO tour).

So, the summary:

PROS: no med school debt, no worry about money in med school, military benefits (health insurance, dental, cheap stuff at the exchange, etc), pride/prestige of being a military officer, cheap housing, etc., no malpractice fees, you don't worry about patients paying you, your patients don't worry about filling scripts, your patients aren't insubordinate (because they are reported to their CO), paid to study for USMLE/boards, bonus for passing boards, specialty pay
PROS come down to money...

CONS: you owe years of your life, you could be deployed during GMO/Reserves, military training time, limited hospitals to work at (military/VA), Apparently some administrative issues (understaffing, etc), malpractice= time in the brig instead of lawsuit, did I miss some?

CONS come down to time and frustration...

So, here I am, trying to decide whether or not to do this... After all, I just want to practice medicine, earn enough money to make my family comfortable, and live in a nice area. I am not in the military at all-- I just know the system well because I happen to be dating a hospital corpsman. He regrets his decision to join up, but is glad that he has his license at the end of it all.

I have worked extensively in the civilian healthcare sector as an EMT, and I can tell you that I was astonished at the mismanagement there. In the ER I worked in, the management was fired, replaced, sued, and then fired again countless times. The country is in a healthcare crisis all around, so I doubt that issues earlier in this thread are unique to the military. I also spoke with military docs that seemed mixed about it. Some mentioned that no liability and obedient patients was the best. Some didn't like the constraints and rules.

Any thoughts? Hope this helps those of you in my position!
Also, any input about raising a family as a military doc????

~Corday




See one, do one, teach one.

 

[RichL025]

It's rather rude to copy and paste your same post into several different threads about different topics.

If you want an answer, pick ONE thread to jump into, or start your own if you think it's warranted.

Thank you.

 

[Globus P]

It's rather rude to copy and paste your same post into several different threads about different topics.

If you want an answer, pick ONE thread to jump into, or start your own if you think it's warranted.

Thank you.

Agreed

 

[curlycorday]

Agreed

Hi, sorry guys. I'm new to this, when I posted replies, I think i put a draft in instead of a reply, but I figured it out now. Thanks

That aside, are either of you military doctors? or out now? do you have any input?

 

[Globus P]

Hi, sorry guys. I'm new to this, when I posted replies, I think i put a draft in instead of a reply, but I figured it out now. Thanks

That aside, are either of you military doctors? or out now? do you have any input?

No problem. No I'm merely a lowly MS-3 on the Navy scholarship. I have been in the Navy for 14 years, both as enlisted and an officer. I read these boards with half an ear. I've met many docs over the years who enjoy the Navy and met others who can't wait to get out (and complain to any one who will lend them an ear). You tend to find the second group on this board. I read their complaints and advice, yet I will reserve judgement until I experience Navy medicine myself. I am excited to be a Navy doc and can't wait to get back to the fleet. You will meet some amazing people in our Navy.

My only advice is, before considering the pros and cons of the scholarship, you first need to decide if you want to be a Navy officer. If the answer is no or maybe or you're doing it for money, the scholarship isn't worth it. You'll be expected to be an officer and if that expectation becomes bothersome or you view it as superfluous burden, "I just want to be a doc", your time as a Navy doc with be miserable. But if you know you want to be a Navy officer who serves the Navy as a doctor, you'll more likely have a better experience in the Navy. It's a decision only you can make.

Good luck with your applications.

 

[usnavdoc]

No problem. No I'm merely a lowly MS-3 on the Navy scholarship. I have been in the Navy for 14 years, both as enlisted and an officer. I read these boards with half an ear. I've met many docs over the years who enjoy the Navy and met others who can't wait to get out (and complain to any one who will lend them an ear). You tend to find the second group on this board. I read their complaints and advice, yet I will reserve judgement until I experience Navy medicine myself. I am excited to be a Navy doc and can't wait to get back to the fleet. You will meet some amazing people in our Navy.

My only advice is, before considering the pros and cons of the scholarship, you first need to decide if you want to be a Navy officer. If the answer is no or maybe or you're doing it for money, the scholarship isn't worth it. You'll be expected to be an officer and if that expectation becomes bothersome or you view it as superfluous burden, "I just want to be a doc", your time as a Navy doc with be miserable. But if you know you want to be a Navy officer who serves the Navy as a doctor, you'll more likely have a better experience in the Navy. It's a decision only you can make.

Good luck with you applications.

Some very good points made here. And I completely agree with what was said.

In OIS they will tell you over and over that you are a Navy officer first and a doctor second.(At least in 97 they did) I like most laughed at that Idea. I mean how can the two positions be opposed to each other. And you two may say only in the theoretical world could that happen. But on a daily basis in the operational world as a gmo you will be faced with decisions and orders that go against patient care. Im not talking about hospital medicine. Im not talking about things that have to be done in combat to complete the mission. Im talking about garrison issues and predeployment workups.

Im talking about the operational setting where they have the most inexperienced medical officers with the least amount of money equipment and resources. A GMO has to make these decisions. And you will be forced to make decisions regarding peoples health because your CO will have the authority in all matters. You will spend countless hours trying to justify decisions and change peoples minds. In the end you will learn how to make due and CYA.

But Im ranting on about Navy medicine again. Bottom line dont do it for money and dont do it unless you really want to be in the navy and just happen to be serving as a doctor.

 

[BOHICA-FIGMO]

Hi all,

So, here's the breakdown of what I've discovered so far about Navy HPSP:

- I was 'field selected' for this program based on my gpa/mcat scores;
- I am applying to med school in fall 2006
- I want to ultimately go into primary care and have a family
- I haven't signed anything yet, but this is what I know so far and would really like input from current military mds, etc.

So, for all other pre-meds out there, hopefully this helps:

The HPSP program: you apply, you get accepted, you are commisioned as an officer (O1 in whatever branch) and you go off to med school, you do 45 adt every year, you go to OIS, you owe year-for-year service; which as I understand it (for emergency medicine) from my recruiter is 1 GMO tour, followed by 3 yr military residency, and commitment would be 3 years (4 yr HPSP -1yr GMO tour).

So, the summary:

PROS: no med school debt, no worry about money in med school, military benefits (health insurance, dental, cheap stuff at the exchange, etc), pride/prestige of being a military officer, cheap housing, etc., no malpractice fees, you don't worry about patients paying you, your patients don't worry about filling scripts, your patients aren't insubordinate (because they are reported to their CO), paid to study for USMLE/boards, bonus for passing boards, specialty pay
PROS come down to money...

CONS: you owe years of your life, you could be deployed during GMO/Reserves, military training time, limited hospitals to work at (military/VA), Apparently some administrative issues (understaffing, etc), malpractice= time in the brig instead of lawsuit, did I miss some?

CONS come down to time and frustration...

So, here I am, trying to decide whether or not to do this... After all, I just want to practice medicine, earn enough money to make my family comfortable, and live in a nice area. I am not in the military at all-- I just know the system well because I happen to be dating a hospital corpsman. He regrets his decision to join up, but is glad that he has his license at the end of it all.

I have worked extensively in the civilian healthcare sector as an EMT, and I can tell you that I was astonished at the mismanagement there. In the ER I worked in, the management was fired, replaced, sued, and then fired again countless times. The country is in a healthcare crisis all around, so I doubt that issues earlier in this thread are unique to the military. I also spoke with military docs that seemed mixed about it. Some mentioned that no liability and obedient patients was the best. Some didn't like the constraints and rules.

Any thoughts? Hope this helps those of you in my position!
Also, any input about raising a family as a military doc????

~Corday




See one, do one, teach one.

Just a minor correction to your numbers. You are looking at 1 yr internship, 2yr GMO (unless you are really lucky), 3 yr ER residency, 2 more years of payback. That is 8 years total. FWIW, I'm right there with you as a USN HPSP-er in the class of 2009!

 

[NavyFS]

Just a minor correction to your numbers. You are looking at 1 yr internship, 2yr GMO (unless you are really lucky), 3 yr ER residency, 2 more years of payback. That is 8 years total. FWIW, I'm right there with you as a USN HPSP-er in the class of 2009!

Corday was right. He would incur a 3 year commitment after his military EM residency. He incurs year for year debt with his residency and can serve that debt concurrently with his HPSP commitment. Although he would only owe 2 years for HPSP after serving as a GMO for 2 years he will still owe 3 for GME training.

 

[pgg]

Jumping in the thread late ...

On a brighter note, less scholarships means less competition for residency slots. Of course, its too late for me, but for you future guys, its a bright note.

It's a bright note only if you don't care about the quality of your fellow residents or the long term quality of military medicine.

Almost guaranteed interruption in your graduate medical education - experience true operational medicine and let your skills truly decay.

I have mixed feelings on this issue. I've in the midst of a 3 year operational tour, and I do feel that I've become dumberer every day. However, Navy residency graduates consistently have extremely high board scores and pass rates in virtually all specialties. I'd be interested in other opinions or evidence that that the break in training actually does have long term adverse effects.

I've met many docs over the years who enjoy the Navy and met others who can't wait to get out (and complain to any one who will lend them an ear). You tend to find the second group on this board. I read their complaints and advice, yet I will reserve judgement until I experience Navy medicine myself. I am excited to be a Navy doc and can't wait to get back to the fleet. You will meet some amazing people in our Navy.

Couldn't agree more. I'm a USUHS Navy grad and current Marine GMO, and will be heading back to GME next July.

I'm very happy I became a Navy doc. For every person I meet who was absolutely miserable as a GMO, I meet someone who had a fantastic time. And even though I applied for residency as an intern, and was disappointed that I didn't get to go straight through - looking back, I'm very glad that I got to do a GMO tour.

The system and environment aren't perfect, but the pros have far outweighed the cons for me.

In OIS they will tell you over and over that you are a Navy officer first and a doctor second.

OIS was, IMO, a nearly worthless experience. I learned how to put on a uniform, who to salute, and a few other practical skills. The rest - pointless classes, wall painting, marching, assigned reading such as "7 Habits Of Highly Successful People" and other tripe - useless.

Regardless of what the instructors at OIS say, the reality is that the line cares only about our skills as doctors ... so long as we avoid embarrassing ourselves (and them) as officers.

OIS.

But on a daily basis in the operational world as a gmo you will be faced with decisions and orders that go against patient care. Im not talking about hospital medicine. Im not talking about things that have to be done in combat to complete the mission. Im talking about garrison issues and predeployment workups.

Im talking about the operational setting where they have the most inexperienced medical officers with the least amount of money equipment and resources. A GMO has to make these decisions. And you will be forced to make decisions regarding peoples health because your CO will have the authority in all matters. You will spend countless hours trying to justify decisions and change peoples minds. In the end you will learn how to make due and CYA.

Agree, this is a common experience as a GMO. I've been fortunate enough to have a great CO who trusts my judgement on all things medical. For the big issues (e.g., recs regarding deployable/non-deployable status, admin sep for psych issues, fitness for a particular duty, etc) I have never - not once - been overruled or ignored by my command. The biggest problem I've had in that arena (and this only rarely) is getting some NCOs and SNCOs to honor light duty recommendations. It helps to recognize that the line officers often have a very different idea of what is and isn't important.

That said, a number of GMOs I know feel marginalized or ignored. It varies a lot from unit to unit, but seems to be worse in front line vs support units.

Also, any input about raising a family as a military doc????

Time away from home sucks. Deployments have been hard on me and my family. But ... we've had 3 kids since I started medical school, and because of the money I got paid as a USUHS student and intern and GMO, we've enjoyed a higher standard of living than we would have otherwise. There's a very tight sense of community amongst all of the active duty families in our neighborhood (we bought a house off base), lots of other young families with kids.

Apart from the deployments, which are an inevitable consequence of taking the job, the Navy has been very good to us. I would not go back in time and choose the civilian route.

 

[BOHICA-FIGMO]

Can anyone enlighten me...are there ANY Navy GME-1 "grads" who get to go directly to GME2+, or is EVERYONE required to do a GMO tour. Also, are these GMO tours 2 or 3 yrs in length. Thanks in advance!

 

[pgg]

Can anyone enlighten me...are there ANY Navy GME-1 "grads" who get to go directly to GME2+, or is EVERYONE required to do a GMO tour. Also, are these GMO tours 2 or 3 yrs in length. Thanks in advance!

Yes, there are always some who go straight through. It depends on the specialty.

No one ever goes straight to GME2+ in the smaller, competitive fields (derm, ENT, ophth., etc). There are always some interns who get picked up for FP and internal medicine. Not sure about psych this year, but I know they've taken interns in the past. Up until this year, 1-3 interns could expect to get selected for anesthesia. The year I was an intern, one of my classmates went straight to GME2+ in general surgery. I think it's uncommon for anyone to get radiology or ER right away, but it's not unheard of.

The majority of Navy interns spend time as GMOs. It's easier to get into primary care right after internship, and a few stellar performers always find spots in other specialties.

Most GMO tours are 2 years, except for flight surgery and undersea medicine, which are 3 each. USMC tours at Kaneohe Bay in Hawaii are also 3 years. One year into a 2 year tour, you're allowed to apply for residency again, and you can skip out of the GMO tour early if you get picked up. I don't think you get the mountain of points for being a GMO applied to that application though.

There are a few 1-year "hardship" tours out there, which are unaccompanied by family. I think Okinawa has a couple spots.

 

[bobbyseal]

Anyone else heard? Supposedly, for this year's 1st year med school classes, the Navy has signed only ~140-150...and there are ~290 spots!

I hear they may try to sell more 3 year scholarships to M2's, but that certainly isn't going to close the gap.

I'm just wondering what will happen once that class hits the PGY1 year....I'm betting the Navy will fill it's GMO billets, and that GME will inevitably suffer (?)

What have you all heard? And how do you think this will affect those of us who are already in? Stop-losses?

Yeah,
I heard that HPSP was down over 50% for this past fiscal year, too. Just wanted to confirm.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

Yeah,
I heard that HPSP was down over 50% for this past fiscal year, too. Just wanted to confirm.

Not surprising. Wartime. High probability of GMO assignment and delay to training. The expectation of continuous progression through training has never been greater in the medical community as a whole, and the military's practice of forced interruption of training looks more and more out-of-step and out-of-touch. I doubt that in most civilian institutions that faculty would have much to say that would support that pattern of utilization, and those faculty are significant influencers in the development of medical students. Only the military hospitals are likely to offer students exposure to many attendings who have had operational experience, and even those opinions are as likely to be mixed. And that is from retained physicians, a small proportion of those who come in through the HPSP portal.

One study I read cited in U.S.Medicine a couple of years ago was that the decision of most HPSP-recruited residents to exit the service was made before their GMO experience, not after. I suspect that being forced to interrupt training (a message that is delivered during internship) and falling behind your medical school class cohort was enough of a negative experience alone and that GMO experiences were generally not positive enough to reverse many younger doctors' decisions to leave. Also, the ratio of interns to PGY-2 slots is itself a demoralizing influence. In my Portsmouth surgery intern class there were 16 PGY-1s. There were 2 PGY-2 categorical slots, 2 ENT, 1 Urology and 2 Ortho. You don't have to be a mathematician to appreciate the low odds of returning. So for many, Plan B became Plan A.

There was a time when all GMO assignments were for one year only. Doctors returned to training right after that. More residency positions were available, and more outservice deferments were granted. As time passed cost constraints and general indifference to and disregard for the welfare of the junior medical corps officers made extending these assignments to two years and longer a temptation, and I suspect that the services just got used to the higher attrition. There were always enough warm bodies coming in that a practice of squandering personnel was ignored.

There are enough graduates of the HPSP program now who didn't have the experiences they were promised on signing who are well-spoken and well-reasoned opponents to the military's efforts to recruit. Most of them are out of the service now, and some are in academic medicine. Tough for the military, I guess, but it is a problem of their own making.

 

[Two-Bit]

I thought this site was discussing the lack of HPSP candidates.
My question is this: How will this lack affect new interns? Right now there is about a 66%/33% split of interns who do GMO directly after internship vice those who go straight through?

Are there any thoughts on how this will affect us, or is this something that will be a problem in residency selection in the next 2-4 years?

I don't want any posts about HPSP vs. USUHS, or how to get into medical school. There are other links for those subjects. Just relevent opinions and comments, please.

Also, are the one-year GMO's sticking around? It seems like one year in Okinawa is not a "Hardship" tour compared to a GMO with a Marine unit who deploys to Iraq or Afghanistan, but those tours are still two years.

Thanks, Two-Bit

 

[MarineFlightdoc]

As a flight doc with the Marine's, our group of FS's was asked (no one volunteered to help) if we wanted to go and lecture to the masses about the benes of NAVMED. Yes it is true, people do not want to risk being shipped off to the war to pay the med school ticket....and NAVMED would like the practicing GMO's/DMO's/FS's to give a real world perspective. My take on this whole issue is that the Navy needs to offer top notch speciality residency progams for as future selling points to get people to bite early on...but with the downsizing and cutting of GME slots, those that would of "risked" the possibility of serving during wartime would probably go for it knowing that the Navy had good programs to come back to...that would be nearly guaranteed given the operational experience. My feeling is that the war is the main deterant, but the real big deal, that is probably not immediately apparent is the decreasing of certain GME positions...buyer beware! I have to say that I have thoroughly enjoyed being a FS and look forward to my military residency next year, but if I had wanted peds, ENT, ophtho (among others) than it would be better to go elsewhere because the Navy is downsizing the training of specialist to meet the "needs of the Navy." You can't blame 'em though, the Navy exists to fight wars...hoorah, devildog

Anyone else heard? Supposedly, for this year's 1st year med school classes, the Navy has signed only ~140-150...and there are ~290 spots!

I hear they may try to sell more 3 year scholarships to M2's, but that certainly isn't going to close the gap.

I'm just wondering what will happen once that class hits the PGY1 year....I'm betting the Navy will fill it's GMO billets, and that GME will inevitably suffer (?)

What have you all heard? And how do you think this will affect those of us who are already in? Stop-losses?

 

[Mirror Form]

There are two main reasons for the decrease in HPSP enrollment.

1. As already stated - war time!
2. the internet. Some people (not all) used to get most of their info about HPSP from their recruiters, who are a very biased, and basically untrustworthy source. Only in the past several years has the internet become a great place where you can find the pros AND cons.

 

[BOHICA-FIGMO]

My feeling is that the war is the main deterant, but the real big deal, that is probably not immediately apparent is the decreasing of certain GME positions...buyer beware! I have to say that I have thoroughly enjoyed being a FS and look forward to my military residency next year, but if I had wanted peds, ENT, ophtho (among others) than it would be better to go elsewhere because the Navy is downsizing the training of specialist to meet the "needs of the Navy." You can't blame 'em though, the Navy exists to fight wars...hoorah, devildog

Are they increasing GME in other specialties that are have more operational applications?

 

[orbitsurgMD]

Anyone else heard? Supposedly, for this year's 1st year med school classes, the Navy has signed only ~140-150...and there are ~290 spots!

I hear they may try to sell more 3 year scholarships to M2's, but that certainly isn't going to close the gap.

I'm just wondering what will happen once that class hits the PGY1 year....I'm betting the Navy will fill it's GMO billets, and that GME will inevitably suffer (?)

What have you all heard? And how do you think this will affect those of us who are already in? Stop-losses?

I could see cross-decking to fill the in-service GME slots. Civilian deferments will dry up first.

The Navy's HPSP program and PGY1 training has been exposed as the feedlot for GMO assignment that it is.

 

[USUHS2008]

There are two main reasons for the decrease in HPSP enrollment.

1. As already stated - war time!
2. the internet. Some people (not all) used to get most of their info about HPSP from their recruiters, who are a very biased, and basically untrustworthy source. Only in the past several years has the internet become a great place where you can find the pros AND cons.

Number 2 is very, very true. Last year as an MS3 I was asked by a Navy anesthesiologist why I had joined the Army and not the Navy, and I took him to a computer and showed him the military forum here. He shook his head and said that he had wished he knew more before he signed on as well, and was glad that the word is getting out. He did some ridiculous number of years as a GMO before finally getting to start.

 

[SeminoleFan3]

Gotta love resurrections from 18+ months ago...

 

[USUHS2008]

As far as I know this is still the best resource for people who are confused, so every once in a great while I like to browse and add what I can. You don't have to stay subscribed to anything if you don't want to...

 

[riversoul]

call me crazy, but i'm a premed (currently applying to med school, 1 upcoming interview Tulane, but that came with a couple of rejections, still waiting to hear from 20+ schools) considering serving as a physican in the military in the future via Navy or Army HPSP, or FAP. my family has a fair degree of military background (dad in AF, grandpa and 2 uncles in Navy, no one in Army though). not really interested in doing the scholarship for the money, since all over this board is posted the argument that i'll make more money if i just stayed in the civilian sector. although it'd be nice not to have any debt to worry about. plus, i thought we weren't supposed to go into medicine for the $$$?? furthermore, 20 yrs down the line, i don't think i want to look back and see that i've been in the civilian sector all my life and never took the opportunity to serve with those who risk their lives for our safety from sadistic terrorists, leaders. i want to experience the "best of both worlds," so to speak...although that may sound too idealistic.

couple of questions for those of you in military med (as a student, resident, board-certified physician):

1) since i'm only premed, what do you think the state of military medicine 4 years from now may be? i know it's tough to predict, but if military med is at an all-time low now, do you think there'll be significant improvement by 2012, when, assuming med school and military financial assistance acceptances, i would be serving?

2) are there any significant differences in quality with Navy vs. Army residencies? i've read that the army has more training opportunities than the navy, but would navy residencies prepare me just as well?

3) preferable to stay single or be married if i somehow ended up as a GMO? in other words, do single males get the crappiest billets? and what would those "crappiest" billets entail?

thanks

 

[Mirror Form]

1) since i'm only premed, what do you think the state of military medicine 4 years from now may be? i know it's tough to predict, but if military med is at an all-time low now, do you think there'll be significant improvement by 2012, when, assuming med school and military financial assistance acceptances, i would be serving?

Not tough to predict, impossible to predict. Gauging by how things have been going the past decade though, things are more likely to get worse then get better. Once again, it's pretty much impossible to predict.

2) are there any significant differences in quality with Navy vs. Army residencies? i've read that the army has more training opportunities than the navy, but would navy residencies prepare me just as well?

I don't think there is a huge difference in residency quality b/w each branch. The main issue w/ navy is that they'll likely force you to do a GMO tour if you choose a competitive specialty.

3) preferable to stay single or be married if i somehow ended up as a GMO? in other words, do single males get the crappiest billets? and what would those "crappiest" billets entail?

thanks

Anybody can get stuck at a crappy billet. I'm not sure about the navy billets. I know that the army has some pretty crappy locations. Navy probably does too.

 

[BomberDoc]

...sadistic terrorists, leaders.

Are you referring to the milmed leadership or AlQ? Both meet the criteria above.

 

[buglady]

I recently was briefed regarding the upcoming GME2 business.

1. First of all, 100 less Navy GMO's are out there...instead, Peds, Fam Med and Internal Med docs will be filling those converted GMO billets once they're done with their residencies

2. If you are interested in Family Med, you will most likely get your number one choice.

3. If you are interested in continuing in Navy Family Medicine, you have a good chance of just doing that. In fact, at my program, our director was pushing us on finishing residency in 3 years and NOT do FS, UMO. However, those who really want to do FS, UMO, green side stuff, they are more than welcome.

4. Yes, they will fall very short w/HPSP numbers. IS it any surprise? Even with the extra little signing bonus (that was never available to us in years past)?

5. So far, my Navy medicine experience is about what I expected. Not too treacherous. But then again, intern year is going to blow no matter if you're in a civilian or military program.

 

[carn311]

I recently was briefed regarding the upcoming GME2 business.

1. First of all, 100 less Navy GMO's are out there...instead, Peds, Fam Med and Internal Med docs will be filling those converted GMO billets once they're done with their residencies

2. If you are interested in Family Med, you will most likely get your number one choice.

3. If you are interested in continuing in Navy Family Medicine, you have a good chance of just doing that. In fact, at my program, our director was pushing us on finishing residency in 3 years and NOT do FS, UMO. However, those who really want to do FS, UMO, green side stuff, they are more than welcome.

4. Yes, they will fall very short w/HPSP numbers. IS it any surprise? Even with the extra little signing bonus (that was never available to us in years past)?

5. So far, my Navy medicine experience is about what I expected. Not too treacherous. But then again, intern year is going to blow no matter if you're in a civilian or military program.

What about EM? Will they use EP's to fill these GMO slots thereby increasing the number of us that they allow to train in EM?

 

[NavyFP]

What about EM? Will they use EP's to fill these GMO slots thereby increasing the number of us that they allow to train in EM?

No, EM docs are already needed elswhere, they will not be scripted into the former GMO billets. That is not to say they couldn't volunteer.

 

[fnr]

http://www.dfas.mil/more/legislativeaffairs/fy07legislation/FY07SA617.pdf

Why go FAP or HPSP wait till your done then go if you want to.


FNR