Need Your Advice Fellow Non-Trads

[MexicanDr]

Yesterday I received a phone call from one of the local Emergency Room Physicians whom I had an interview with for a Emergency Room Scribe position at the local Medical Center.

The interview went great, he expressed how people dwell a lot on their ages and not follow their dreams; he mentioned this after telling him I felt a bit out of place because I was an older pre-med student.

He said, "There is no being too old if you have a goal, dreams, you just have to work hard".

Close to 150 people applied for 3 positions and I feel fortunate to have being chosen. The Medical Center is a Trauma Center Level II, which makes it only greater for the amount and type of cases.

The issue: The position is full time and I am currently somewhat concerned because I will be taking Biology 1 w/lab, Chemistry 1 w/lab and a different class, an upper G.E.

I don't want to mention anything now, because I don't want to lose this opportunity; I was thinking of mentioning it to them once the whole background and training is done. Since they invested time on me, then I am sure it would be ok to work with my school schedule and possibly cut the hours down to 32 per week.

The interesting aspect is that during the interview, the physician was aware that I am currently going to school as I told him I was working on my second B.S. [Biology] and when asked for a time commitment, I said 2 years since that is when I plan to apply.

I guess what I really want to know and seek advice from is if any of you has worked full time or 32 hrs per week and still took a class schedule similar as mine?

How hard was it? What would you recommend?

I need a job, I am a non trad and have bills to pay, but I also want to do well in my classes.

Sincerely,

Ed

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[sassilysweet]

For a bit I worked .8 (32hr/pay period) and would take a class with lab or just a lecture class and then another on online/"distance learning". I did just fine in them and also had time to do other things I enjoyed. So if you are willing to not have much free time then 2-3 classes should work out fine with working that. It helps if you would have time at work to study/read homework but I know it is not always possible to fit this in. When I worked weekends at my surgical assistant positions we were typically really, really slow so as long as I got all my other work done I could typically get all week's worth of homework done while I was on the clock.

It is really going to depend on your job/workload and the type of studier you are. Good luck!

 

[Namedmymember]

I did the 40-hour a week plus a full load of classes thing. You no longer can do anything else whatsoever. Study on the bus to work, study during your lunch break, study on the bus on the way home from class at night, study during meals. Good luck!

 

[EdLongshanks]

How hard was it? What would you recommend?

I need a job, I am a non trad and have bills to pay, but I also want to do well in my classes.

Sincerely,

Ed

Work full time and don't take as many classes. If this puts off your med school for 1 more year, so what. The experience of scribing in an emergency room is so valuable that you will be more likely to get into the school of your choice.

 

[Dianyla]

Work full time and don't take as many classes. If this puts off your med school for 1 more year, so what. The experience of scribing in an emergency room is so valuable that you will be more likely to get into the school of your choice.

This. Taking another year and applying as a more competitive candidate is worth it.

Working full-time, I can only do three classes if one of them is really fluffy. Two science classes, both with labs, is pushing it.

 

[MidnightSun32]

This is going to depend on you. How much do you think you can handle and still get straight A's? Remember that labs, despite being fewer units, usually require the same amount of work as their corresponding lectures.

This opportunity sounds great, and if you manage to pull it all off you will have hit a home run. However, you have to remember that if you are a nontrad in need of grade repair, academics trump everything.

Most people in my post-bac program work full time and take three classes or so. Some people fewer, some are hardcore and take four. Personally, last semester I took five classes, worked twenty hours a week, and was involved in extracurriculars for another fifteen to twenty. That was really stretching it, but I managed to pull out straight A's studying only on the weekends - the only time I had. I don't intend to pull another semester like that until I'm in med school.

Definitely agree. I've taken micro, human a&p, chem, and bio 2 in one semester with labs and worked full time.... I felt like I was taking my homework and flash cards everywhere with me. I was pretty burned out after that semester. I got all As but I barely made the A cut off in two of those classes and didn't have enough free time. This summer I'm taking 14 credits and still working full time... it's going well so far and I have 3 weeks left. I've noticed that when I take on so much, I start out very strong and get high grades but towards the end, my scores are lower. It still balances out enough, but I know it's because I get burned out.

It will depend on you, though. You might be able to handle it and be completely fine. If your academic performance has been pretty good so far, there's a good chance you'll be okay. A tip: if you feel burned out, just keep going and don't give up mid-semester. The week after classes are over, I still have to work, but I don't even consider anything that has to do with school.

 

[Nasrudin]

This. Taking another year and applying as a more competitive candidate is worth it.

Working full-time, I can only do three classes if one of them is really fluffy. Two science classes, both with labs, is pushing it.

My experience exactly. I worked from 35 up to 55 hours a week or so. And could manage 2 science courses with labs. When my work went to the 35-40 hour range I added on another fluff general ed requirement.

A lot of it will depend on how well you manage stress. And how you perceive the situations around you. Unfortunately for me, I was too caught up in the fear of failing, and my health and relationships suffered. So I don't recommend that. Everyone, every situation is unique. And requires a unique solution.

In regards to the scribe position. Man. That is the holy grail of premed gigs. If you work hard and dial yourself into making yourself essential to the team that drafted you. You will get paid in premed gold in the form of physicians who will give you instant street creds. By writing detailed and effusive descriptions of all your wonderful attributes and potential for being a physician. I was an ED tech. And having those physicians willing to go to bat for me hard, I have no doubt, made the difference between success and failure, with an otherwise very lackluster application.

So I would take a hit in my overall time frame to get this gig. I spent seven years as an adult premed for reasons I won't go into here. It's been well worth the struggle and patience to do it right--I'm in a world-class city where my wife and I can thrive. I feel the momentum to do well at the next level. So patience. Despite time not being an asset. Can be worth it.

 

[7starmantis]

I did the 40+ hrs per week, full time science courses, studying for MCAT, married, etc. It does take everything you have and if doing this, a year off before starting med school is very nice.

That being said, the work is very beneficial to your application, you want it. Med school and residency will be no different, find your determination and get through it. If it means taking a few less classes its worth it.

However, remember that showing an adcom you can handle a crazy schedule and still make the grades is great for your app. On the other hand, if you mess it up, you have a shining example of not being able to handle it and thats a big negative.

 

[MexicanDr]

Thanks guys for your input and great advice.

I guess if it worse comes to worse, I can drop a class before the "W" and stay with two courses while working full time; but I am staying positive and am sure the physicians will understand and work around my schedule/hrs. The good thing is that the ER is not an 8-5 job, so I have the 24 hrs to put work hrs in I suppose.

Again, thanks for the great advice.

Ed

 

[allover]

wow. i just realized how lazy I am. here i was thinking i can get away with 3 sciences and 2 labs, no job. I guess I either need to find a job or volunteer full time.

 

[sassilysweet]

wow. i just realized how lazy I am. here i was thinking i can get away with 3 sciences and 2 labs, no job. I guess I either need to find a job or volunteer full time.

Is that ~12 credits? 15 is usually considered a "full load" so yeah you are a little low for hours compared to everyone else ;0)

You wouldn't need to volunteer "full time" but with a lower amount of credits it is a good idea to fill the extra available credit hours with an extra activity or expanded hours elsewhere

 

[eablackwell]

Full load actually depends on your school. However, 12-15 credits is usually the golden number area


To the op, I'm not sure where your strengths lie academically, but of the classes you're taking, chem will likely be your biggest time sink. Upper lvl GEs are usually just a midterm and final paper, at least in my experiences. Bio 1 isn't all that intense, but chem can really ruin your day

I think you will be okaly with that load and if you manage your time well enough the load isn't so horrible that you shouldn't have some amount of free time, even if you're working 40 hour weeks. The question really becomes how flexible the job will be with your lab/lecture schedule and if your GE prof is crazy about attendance.

I wouldn't keep this stuff from your employer too long, especialy if most of your classes are during the day.

 

[allover]

Is that ~12 credits? 15 is usually considered a "full load" so yeah you are a little low for hours compared to everyone else ;0)

You wouldn't need to volunteer "full time" but with a lower amount of credits it is a good idea to fill the extra available credit hours with an extra activity or expanded hours elsewhere

that would be 11 credits in my case since labs are 1 credit here (but meet for more hours per week than 3 credit lecture). Also, i already have a bs degree(which takes care of everything except sciences) with a 3.54 if that makes a difference.

 

[Lefty Doodle]

I'm only taking 9 credits ;-)--but that's 3 science with lab, my school has a slightly different system, they don't count the lab for credit (it's ok with most med schools)--9 credits is still full-time and cheaper than 12!!

Allover, I am having the same dilemma--I know my 3 classes will be a lot of work and need to ace them, but am trying to decide if I can/should/need to do something else. I've spent the past 3 months so far just studying and my life is starting to look pretty two-dimensional. I am applying for some T.A. jobs and will see if anything else that could help my app comes up. If not then I'll probably wait until it does--I don't want to risk burn out, I need to ease into next year (one of my courses is an upper level bio). I'm figuring I'll take 2 years off to work anyway (I'd like to take the MCAT end of next summer, so it will put me off a cycle).

Anyway, I think you should just do what you feel comfortable with. Most of the people on here are and have always been workaholics.

 

[jackieMD2007]

Hey there,

I went to med school after working for 3 years and will graduate this June

That being said, I feel like what helped me to gain admission to multiple medical schools was a mix of things:
1-work experience (all of it was NOT medical--I parlayed it all to display maturity, decision making, leadership, etc)
2-balanced undergrad grades (3.5 in science)
3-decent MCAT (29+)

There is no magic application bullet.

My advice to you specifically is to only take the job if you feel like you can keep your balance. I know it sounds fancy to work in the ER and like that sounds like it would "really enhance your application" blah blah blah but frankly any job that you can hold down for a sustained amount of time (especially one where you got to be a leader) while doing well in school is a good one.

I know you don't want to let this ER doc down but from my POV if this job may put a strain on your studies, volunteering, etc--I would tell this doc thanks but I've got too many commitments on my plate right now.

 

[Don Draper]

obviously if the OP needs $ then the decision is already made, but I'm surprised to hear people saying take an extra year to build the app (3 years) instead of doing it quicker (1.5-2 years).

I guess that's not my style. Having 4 years med school + 3-5 years residency, I wouldn't want to add more than the necessary 2 years.

BUT again, if you need money then different story.

I know you don't want to let this ER doc down but from my POV if this job may put a strain on your studies, volunteering, etc--I would tell this doc thanks but I've got too many commitments on my plate right now.

Agreed here. Personally, I would just focus on building the best app I could in 1.5-2 years.

 

[EdLongshanks]

obviously if the OP needs $ then the decision is already made, but I'm surprised to hear people saying take an extra year to build the app (3 years) instead of doing it quicker (1.5-2 years).

I guess that's not my style. Having 4 years med school + 3-5 years residency, I wouldn't want to add more than the necessary 2 years.

BUT again, if you need money then different story.



Agreed here. Personally, I would just focus on building the best app I could in 1.5-2 years.

What you have on this board are people who are serious about getting into medical school. As a result, they make sure that they have a superior application in every way. There are a lot, a very lot, of people who just do the minimum and then apply and don't get in. They take the MCAT before they are ready for it. They don't have a good feel for what they are going to get before the score arrives. They haven't researched their first and second choice schools and spoken to the admissions office or attended the question day events. They haven't targeted their letter writers and made sure that the writers have a good knowledge and opinion of them. They don't make sure that they have all the clinical experience possible. They don't find a doctor and get him on their side. They skip opportunities to do research.

It takes years to put together a superior app that has a really good chance of getting in. Rushing through and applying late in the season and before the applicant is ready can be a mistake that cannot be corrected later.

I started this process in January 2009. If I am lucky, I will start in August 2011. I rushed through with 2.5 years prep and made some mistakes. I have a MCAT score at least 3 points lower than it could be. I have insufficient clinical experience and shadowing. My finances aren't really ready. If I were young enough to not rush, I would have waited 1 more year, but at 47, I can't delay.

But for a young man to make these mistakes is simply silly. The experienced people on this board will tell you to wait. You can take a chance and get in nowhere, or not at your ideal place one year early - or get your dream school by waiting just 1 more year.

 

[MexicanDr]

Do you guys suggest I tell the physician and the Lead Scribe who did the interview/hired me now about possible part-time accommodations because of my school schedule, or should I just wait until the background check goes through and the training period starts and then tell them?

What do you guys think is the best thing to do?

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Two sides to that, one, right now you're being hired under the impression you can work certain hours; two, forgiveness is easier to gain than permission, and you'll have the job and it might work. I know several people at my local hospital who are working full-time and going to school full or 3/4 time. I guess my gut instinct is to wait and then ask, and see what happens, but remember, they are within their rights to either dismiss you, or say no...

 

[MexicanDr]

Thanks for the reply-

Anyone else..

 

[confuzzle]

I would wait and see once the training is done and the courses have started. You could potentially pull it off with all courses, if you learn to manage your time well and maybe they'll be understanding later on to cut down on some hours.
If it comes down to it, then maybe you can make a choice about either dropping a course or dropping the job. Right now, I think you should give it a chance first. Monitor your progress well though, and if you see rather soon that you can't do it or you are getting burnt out, make a decision quickly to give yourself time for plan B.

Personally, I have done full time work + two courses. It was stressful but in the end I did it.

Another thing you may want to consider is if the 3rd class is available online. You will spare some time that way.

 

[Don Draper]

If I were young enough to not rush, I would have waited 1 more year, but at 47, I can't delay.

But for a young man to make these mistakes is simply silly. The experienced people on this board will tell you to wait. You can take a chance and get in nowhere, or not at your ideal place one year early - or get your dream school by waiting just 1 more year.

I agree that everyone's situation is different, but you can't say "for a young man to make these mistakes is simply silly."

Most non-trads, whether 25 or 50, think they need to get with the program as quickly as possible.

Dream schools don't matter as much as where you rank, board scores, personality, connections, work ethic, etc. As we just saw the 49 year old (wisconsin?) graduate matching plastics in the other thread "I'm 42 and want to go to med school". The goal is to prepare the best app you can in a reasonable amount of time.

I don't think 1.5-2 years is "rushing", that is a lot of time to prepare a good app. That's exactly what I did to prepare a competitive app. You've made a false dichotomy of "apply early and may you may not get in OR apply later and get in your dream school."

Plus I think you're misunderstanding my post. When I say "preparing your app", I mean time before you submit it. So Jan 2009 - July 2010 submission is 1.5 years preparing the app, not 2.5 years (the day you start attending school). Just want to be clear on that, as having 2.5-3.0 years before attending school is not "rushing" by any means.

 

[Don Draper]

Do you guys suggest I tell the physician and the Lead Scribe who did the interview/hired me now about possible part-time accommodations because of my school schedule, or should I just wait until the background check goes through and the training period starts and then tell them?

What do you guys think is the best thing to do?

lol. Tell them after.

Just say the school workload is heavier than anticipated.