Negotiation Advice

[Roguelyn]

I'm hoping for some opinions from the few practicing physicians here.

I am just starting my 8th week at my current job. I was hired at $124/hr to work 32 hrs/wk. Because we will be moving locations and I can't get 32 hr/wk until after the move, I was given at $12,500 sign on bonus. Currently, I have trouble even getting 24 hrs/wk. It also looks like this move isn't going to happen until August at the earliest. I really like the work and the employer and was not looking for another job.

However, out of the blue, I have been offered a 4 day/wk position with another office. While talking with this potential employer he said I should be asking at least 230000/yr. He said repeatedly to just let him know what income, benefits, insurance, hours and any other requirements I have and that we can negotiate from there. He also said he can't imagine that he would refuse anything I asked. I don't know him or his staff too much, but with the salary increase it seems stupid not to seriously consider it.

Would you consider changing jobs at this point? How terrible is job hopping?
How should I go about listing my requirements? Would you suggest just starting with a contract lawyer and having something drawn up, or should I just type out what I'd like?

Currently, I'm planning to type something out with all my requests and then let his lawyer come up with the contract. The few things I mentioned to him already, he was totally fine with.

I am also not sure if I should request hourly pay or salary. Would it be unreasonable to suggest salary up to 40 hrs/wk with hourly for weekends, evenings, unexpected call etc?

I also don't want to burn a bridge with my current employer if I do leave, but I'm really screwing them over if I take off.

Really, the whole thing seems like a trap so I am wary.

This pay is very high for this area. I talked to my current employer about this offer already. They have not offered more money but have been trying to come up with ways for me to get more hours. These have included starting a buprenorphine clinic 30 min away and covering the inpatient detox for vacations.

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[cabinbuilder]

Can you keep the first job and work 1-2 days a week and take the second job too since it's only 4 days a week? Not sure how much you want to work.

 

[Roguelyn]

Can you keep the first job and work 1-2 days a week and take the second job too since it's only 4 days a week? Not sure how much you want to work.

That was my original offer, but both places want all 100 of my buprenorphine pts. There is talk of the bup limit being increased or eliminated but it hasn't happened yet.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Sounds like the first job need to get more hours now or let you go. Can't really pay the bills on 24/hrs a week. That's just not practical for anyone.

 

[Roguelyn]

Sounds like the first job need to get more hours now or let you go. Can't really pay the bills on 24/hrs a week. That's just not practical for anyone.

Yeah, I'm reasonably sure I'm going to leave. I figure if I'm honest about the situation I can leave on a decent note.

I'm going to hang out at the new place later this week to see if there are any obvious issues and meet some of the staff. I'm torn about asking for hourly vs salary. Maybe salary with guaranteed 32 hrs. Then if I cover weekends or an extra day every now amd then or anything really, I'll have an incentive and he'll think twice about it.

 

[deleted87716]

I wouldn't worry about the specific issue of changing jobs. If you need full-time hours and your current employer isn't able to give you full-time hours, then your needs do not match up.

"While talking with this potential employer he said I should be asking at least 230000/yr." I find this odd. Usually, an employer will be able to tell you what they're willing and able to pay you. Asking you to name your own price is usually an attempt to lowball you. If he's talking $230K salary in addition to benefits, that sounds like a tempting deal...unless the job itself sucks.

"Really, the whole thing seems like a trap so I am wary." Trust your instincts.

"I'm torn about asking for hourly vs salary." Since it doesn't sound like they're paying you based on productivity (also odd), consider asking for a salary for a 40-hour week (or whatever they consider full-time hours) and an hourly rate for anything over that. Be sure to specify how much vacation you want, as well as benefits (health insurance, disability, retirement, CME, etc.)

You keep mentioning buprenorphine...this isn't a pill mill, is it...?

 

[Roguelyn]

I think it's just that we are all limited to 100 bup patients and there are few local prescribers. I've been contacted before about writing bup for other offices/rehab facilities. The few places prescribing all have wait lists. We've got people who drive 2 hrs to see us, their counselors and attend group. These are folks who get back on track, stop using, go back to school and work full-time.

I actually asked him about the place just being pill mill. We've talked about all the requirements for his MAT patients, went through the documentation required and criteria for discharge. What he's doing is the same process as the place I'm at now, although a bit more thorough, and is in-line with the treatment guidelines.

It'd be nice to go back to some FM. Currently I'm just doing MAT and it's not terribly challenging. However, there's no call, no weekends/evenings/holidays and hardly any paperwork. When I leave for the day I'm really done.

I'm going to ask for an open-ended contract so I could leave at any time. Works out for him, too, since he could fire me at any time. Also, no non-compete and I'll look through a previous contract to help remember all those other benefits.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Be sure you don't get stuck with the cost of the tail coverage

 

[Roguelyn]

So, I asked for 150/hr with 32 hr guaranteed, 20 days vacation, 5 cme days, malpractice w/tail, health/dental/vision insurance, 401k with 3% employer matching and 3% employer contribution, 3k cme allowance, 3k licensing/dues allowance, bereavement days, short and long term disability. Despite all these benefits and salary, the big draw for me is to get back to FM.

His response was that this all sounded reasonable and that he'll get a contract drawn up for further discussion.

My current employer offered me as many hours as I want covering outpt psych. Their benefits are similar, but only 5 vacation days and 3 cme, $4500 cme/licensing allowance. I'm going to talk to them about this new offer once I have a contract to review.

My gf in Illinois says this offer is pretty similar to her's but she has rare inpatient duties. So maybe it isn't so crazy?

 

[Roguelyn]

Just an update, to show that negotiating really does work. I decided to stay with my current employer. They eventually offered $135/hr with guaranteed 32 hrs/wk, 4 weeks paid vacation and 5 paid CME days. In the process I met the CFO, CCO and COO. I've also had several meetings regarding my future with the company. They have made it very clear that I am a valuable member of their organization, are excited to have me and have gotten nothing but positive feedback from patients and staff.

When I let the other place know I wasn't leaving he offered more money, a bonus and after I said no, he asked just what would make me leave.

I'm thinking I made the right decision. I hope.

 

[SuckySurgeon7]

My current employer offered me as many hours as I want covering outpt psych.

Are you double boarded?

 

[Roguelyn]

Are you double boarded?

No, but anything complicated I can refer or consult with one of my psych colleagues.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Are you double boarded?

Lots of psych places are pretty desperate. In residency I did some moonlighting at the state mental health hospital on weekends - mostly putting out fires and new admits which thankfully got seen by psych within 48 hours and had been mostly stabilized prior to arrival.