New contract will limit total shifts done everywhere?!?

[sylvanthus]

So I live in a small town and the local hospital booted TeamHealth and is taking on the docs as w-2 hospital employees. This works well for me for PSLF (only 4 years to go, so goin for it). However, was just told they want this position to be our primary position and will limit our total shifts done everywhere to 13/month. My obligation will be like 10.6/month at this facility leaving me 2.4 shifts I can work elsewhere.

Anyone ever come across this? Ive heard of non compete clauses but this is odd. I have not seen the formal wording yet. Is it really enforceable/discoverable? Is there some top secret admin database that can discover where and how much im working elsewhere big brother style?

Im likely gonna sign as my options in this area are take this, or commute long distance and I figure I can do it until loans forgiven or PSLgets axed and then reassess.

Any advice/thoughts?

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[RuralEDDoc]

Would not be enforceable in California. Not sure how it may apply in your state. Might be a good opportunity to do your core shifts and then 3-4 shifts out of state as locums.

 

[Pigg-O-Stat]

I definitely would not agree to that.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

They are decreasing your wages so this w2 better have benefits that are similar to an academic center

 

[sylvanthus]

It seems pretty good benefits and such. 315k for 10.6 12 hour shifts. 7% into retirement per year ( no need for match they just toss it in there). Super cheap medical dental etc. option for 457 and 401. 10 min drive from house.

Just found this odd as have never even heard of it before.

 

[sylvanthus]

Forgot to add night shifts we see like 10 patients, days get hammered.

 

[TheSingularity]

Try striking it. Worst that can happen is they say no.

So I live in a small town and the local hospital booted TeamHealth and is taking on the docs as w-2 hospital employees. This works well for me for PSLF (only 4 years to go, so goin for it). However, was just told they want this position to be our primary position and will limit our total shifts done everywhere to 13/month. My obligation will be like 10.6/month at this facility leaving me 2.4 shifts I can work elsewhere.

Anyone ever come across this? Ive heard of non compete clauses but this is odd. I have not seen the formal wording yet. Is it really enforceable/discoverable? Is there some top secret admin database that can discover where and how much im working elsewhere big brother style?

Im likely gonna sign as my options in this area are take this, or commute long distance and I figure I can do it until loans forgiven or PSLgets axed and then reassess.

Any advice/thoughts?

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[EctopicFetus]

depends on state. Some places just limit you from working anywhere else. This is different than a typical non compete. The non compete we most think about is a PERC (post employment restrictive covenant). This is often not enforceable in many states. Limiting where or how much you work while employed by them is likely both enforceable and not uncommon. I know some places did this in AZ.

 

[southerndoc]

Wonder what AAEM would say to this.

 

[Fox800]

depends on state. Some places just limit you from working anywhere else. This is different than a typical non compete. The non compete we most think about is a PERC (post employment restrictive covenant). This is often not enforceable in many states. Limiting where or how much you work while employed by them is likely both enforceable and not uncommon. I know some places did this in AZ.

My current job keeps me from working anywhere else. One of multiple reasons why I'm leaving.

Wonder what AAEM would say to this.

I'm sure they'd have some sharply-worded language, and I'd like it.

 

[southerndoc]

Someone should send it to them.

 

[thegenius]

So I live in a small town and the local hospital booted TeamHealth and is taking on the docs as w-2 hospital employees. This works well for me for PSLF (only 4 years to go, so goin for it). However, was just told they want this position to be our primary position and will limit our total shifts done everywhere to 13/month. My obligation will be like 10.6/month at this facility leaving me 2.4 shifts I can work elsewhere.

Anyone ever come across this? Ive heard of non compete clauses but this is odd. I have not seen the formal wording yet. Is it really enforceable/discoverable? Is there some top secret admin database that can discover where and how much im working elsewhere big brother style?

Im likely gonna sign as my options in this area are take this, or commute long distance and I figure I can do it until loans forgiven or PSLgets axed and then reassess.

Any advice/thoughts?

Kaiser is like this. Well Kaiser in California. I don't know about Kaiser in other states. if you work for Kaiser you can't work in other ER's unless you get Kaiser's permission.

I have no idea about it's legality, but I bet if this was NOT legal a doctor within Kaiser has already challenged it.

I'm surprised that this job is limiting your TOTAL shifts to 13 / month? If you want to work 16 at that place they won't let you?

You get good benefits being a W-2 at that hospital? I hope so.

 

[namethatsmell]

I would give them two options and let them choose:

a) remove that stipulation from the contract

b) accept that stipulation in exchange for a 20% hourly increase or "loyalty bonus" or whatever euphemism you like

 

[Groove]

That'a a bogus clause. I wouldn't sign that unless the gig is borderline unicorn status and even then I'd have strong reservation. It reminds me of a similar contract I got handed in a CMG turned HEC model like you are describing. Except in mine, the non compete said that I couldn't work anywhere else in the country without express permission from hospital administration. I had a good laugh from that one. These hospital attorneys have no clue how EM contracts should be written. Have you tried scheduling a meeting with the higher ups and attorney to explain your concerns and try to hash out a resolution? It may be as simple as the attorney is clueless about drawing up the contract and nobody realizes what a big deal this would be for an EM doc.

In my case, I told the attorney that there is no EM doc that would sign the contract with that clause and he kept putting off meetings with us until 2 days before our contract ended and we got handed the final version with no time to even have our own attorneys review. He kept asking us to just sign it and they would add adjustments later. LOL. 95% of us left. 2 guys remained. It soon became Weatherby's largest contract for over 2 years priced at a premium. I'm still pissed at that guy today, what a dumb***. I'd probably still be there if it hadn't been for that idiot.

You could always just work the extra gigs and hope nobody rats on you. There's no secret black book of EM doc shift counts being passed among hospital CEOs if that's what you're worried about. I doubt anyone would ever bust you out on it but you never know.

 

[thegenius]

It seems like that contract is putting a cap on how much money you can make. 100% anti- ER at its foundation. It’s one thing to say you can work elsewhere. It’s another thing to say you can’t work elsewhere AND you can only work 13 shifts/month with us.

Are they trying to do this for physician wellness? I would not sign this unless you are forced to do so, like it’s the only job in town.

They are basically saying you can’t make more than X a year. What if you want to take a fancy vacation that costs 20K and you want to work a handful of extra shifts to pay for it? They won’t let you do that?

 

[GeneralVeers]

I wouldn't think too much into it. I'd ask if they would remove it, but then if they didn't and I wanted to work there I would. I would then secretly work as much as I want other places. If you are a good, productive, full-time doc they aren't going to fire you because you work a bit more somewhere else.

 

[Hamhock]

I have no idea about it's legality, but I bet if this was NOT legal a doctor within Kaiser has already challenged it.

At first I was thinking this way, too.

However, the more I thought about it, I am wondering if anyone actually has challenged.

Basically, such a contract is saying to the employee that they can control the actions of the employee even when they are not on hospital grounds and not working. That just doesn't make sense. That would be nearly unenforceable, no?

HH

 

[deleted109597]

At first I was thinking this way, too.

However, the more I thought about it, I am wondering if anyone actually has challenged.

Basically, such a contract is saying to the employee that they can control the actions of the employee even when they are not on hospital grounds and not working. That just doesn't make sense. That would be nearly unenforceable, no?

HH

Not really. It's just a different kind of non-compete. Maybe in some jurisdictions they can lose, but clearly their counsel thinks it's worthwhile.


But I wouldn't sign it.

 

[MechEDoc]

I had a group offer me a contract that would allow me to work anywhere else however much I like, however they were entitled to 100% of my income earned outside of the group.

My gut reaction was f-off, which was more socially expressed by negotiating through a contract attorney. All of the silly clauses were quickly dropped.

I believe the other docs who signed on around the same time as me did not negotiate out this clauses in the contract. They didn't even realize they could negotiate…

To borrow a line from the old Karrrass ads, "You Don't Get What You Deserve, You Get What You Negotiate".

 

[KGflyboy]

I had a group offer me a contract that would allow me to work anywhere else however much I like, however they were entitled to 100% of my income earned outside of the group.

My gut reaction was f-off, which was more socially expressed by negotiating through a contract attorney. All of the silly clauses were quickly dropped.

I believe the other docs who signed on around the same time as me did not negotiate out this clauses in the contract. They didn't even realize they could negotiate…

To borrow a line from the old Karrrass ads, "You Don't Get What You Deserve, You Get What You Negotiate".

I'm amazed at how many people in my residency program signed contracts without any sort of negation. Weeks later many of them would casually say things like "I wonder if I can convince them to pay my moving expenses" or "maybe I should ask for student loan reimbursement" or something similar. I just shook my head and said I think you missed the boat. Those should be written directly into the contract if they are important to you.

Some people just take the first draft of the contract and don't realize they are working side by side with docs who have better contracts.

For instance, I have no non-compete of any kind, but everybody else who signed around the same time as me have an insanely strict non-compete. All I had to do was ask for it be removed, and it disappeared from by contract like magic prior to signing.