new grads and overnight staffing

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pharmnyc4

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Thoughts on newly licensed pharmacists and overnight *hospital staff positions?

Can anyone share their experiences (positives or negatives), and whether they found it personally/ financially worth it to make that lifestyle sacrifice for the work experience (job market in my area is pretty tight).

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I would do if they are willing to train you. You could always learn and leave. Alot of pharmacist can do outpatient but not the other way around. With all the new pharmacist pumping out, you gotta find a niche.

Do it while you are still young and have no kids. If you have a family that's a tougher decision

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I did it, and so was the person I replaced, and the person before them. Honestly, it's great was to start, more money, more time to do other things (social, work extra, study for BCPS or whatever u want). Remember it's 7 days on, 7 days off. And a huge benefit, is once you do overnight by yourself, you can pretty much do anything because it's makes resourceful, confident, and when emergencies happen, you are the man who knows what to do.

The only thing is, with no prior hospital experience it can be a huge learning curve and you employer have to be supportive and trains you well.

Its very hard to do once you have a family, but do it for a year or so and then move up in hospital or go to a different place with a different shift.
 
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The only thing is, with no prior hospital experience it can be a huge learning curve and you employer have to be supportive and trains you well.
.

Isn't that with everything though?

I mean if a person has no retail experience then they would also need extra training as I doubt anyone can be a pro at being a retail pharmacist with no prior work experience.

I know for a fact I need personal training on how to fix insurance problems.
 
I work per diem retail with no experience.. I have a great tech, so I kinda learned as I went. If you don't know an insurance claim, the guy will get his script tomorrow when another pharmacist comes. But there are so many things that you can't miss up at night, and when you are by yourself, there is no one to ask. The pharmacist before me, had a guy code on him because of a wrong diltziem rate
 
I work per diem retail with no experience.. I have a great tech, so I kinda learned as I went. If you don't know an insurance claim, the guy will get his script tomorrow when another pharmacist comes. But there are so many things that you can't miss up at night, and when you are by yourself, there is no one to ask. The pharmacist before me, had a guy code on him because of a wrong diltziem rate

That's great that you got thru it well though! :thumbup: I would love to have a staff hospital position when I graduate. The hospital I am doing my rotations at now have hired staff hospital pharmacists without residencies (it's unheard of where I am from b/c it's so competitive that everyone was residency trained). If I can get a hospital position without a residency it would be great.

I became friends with one of the recently hired staff pharmacist and we compared our resumes....it's pretty much identical except she has more community service than I do we had the same amout of research, presentations, clubs etc.....so I hope I get a chance too. LOL...

Anyways, what do you recommend pharmacy students with NO hospital experience do to prepare for a staff hospital position?
 
You don't need a residency to work as a staff.. Honestly,if after you do a residency and you agree to staff, you really wasted a good 50-100 thousand dollars in lost income.

You just need to build a good network, for example if you have a pharmacist who works in a hospital and does retail from time to time with you, then get to know him very well. If there is a hospital you really want to work there, try to get a rotation there and leave a good impression. If you can't get a rotation there, get the director email and email him/her asking if there is any intern positions because you would love to work there after you graduate and would like to get some experience, ect.

Keep applying and eventually someone will believe you are worth the investment of training, and will hire you.
 
Two reasons I won't do it is because at my hospital, the overnight pharmacist does not get a tech and a runner. Also, most of the fun things to do as a 25 year old male happen at 11PM-4AM.

Gotta shed those pounds son...
 
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That's great that you got thru it well though! :thumbup: I would love to have a staff hospital position when I graduate. The hospital I am doing my rotations at now have hired staff hospital pharmacists without residencies (it's unheard of where I am from b/c it's so competitive that everyone was residency trained). If I can get a hospital position without a residency it would be great.

I became friends with one of the recently hired staff pharmacist and we compared our resumes....it's pretty much identical except she has more community service than I do we had the same amout of research, presentations, clubs etc.....so I hope I get a chance too. LOL...

Anyways, what do you recommend pharmacy students with NO hospital experience do to prepare for a staff hospital position?

Pharmacy students with no hospital experience should excel on their hospital rotations and try to get recommendations the clinical pharmacist and DOP at that site.
 
for those who braved to take an overnight position with the hope of being able to transfer internally to a day/evening shift, in your experience, how long were you in the overnight shift?
 
for those who braved to take an overnight position with the hope of being able to transfer internally to a day/evening shift, in your experience, how long were you in the overnight shift?

It's all luck, and unfortunately a good hospital is a hospital with low turnover and it can take a while (~1-2 years) . But, once you have a year experience or so, it's easy to move to another place to a different.
 
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The last thing you want as a manager is a void in night shift pharmacist coverage.

You also don't want a pharmacist who takes the night position just to get in the door to shift to days. I really need committed night pharmacists who are passionate about what they do.
Since they're running solo (as a pharmacist), they're the supervisor, director, PIC...and the foremost expert on medication management for every single patient in house.

I would never stick a new pharmacist in that position...unless they're working with another pharmacist.

Years of staff pharmacist experience is a must to work graveyard alone, in my not so humble opinion.
 
The last thing you want as a manager is a void in night shift pharmacist coverage.

You also don't want a pharmacist who takes the night position just to get in the door to shift to days. I really need committed night pharmacists who are passionate about what they do.
Since they're running solo (as a pharmacist), they're the supervisor, director, PIC...and the foremost expert on medication management for every single patient in house.

I would never stick a new pharmacist in that position...unless they're working with another pharmacist.

Years of staff pharmacist experience is a must to work graveyard alone, in my not so humble opinion.

I was actually quite terrified about having to work the overnight shift during the hurricane since our regular overnighter couldn't come in. I don't understand why the director didn't keep both me and my 3-11PM partner around for working overnight. Although, the DOP was in the hospital for that shift so no point in having 3 pharmacists around I guess?
 
The last thing you want as a manager is a void in night shift pharmacist coverage.

You also don't want a pharmacist who takes the night position just to get in the door to shift to days. I really need committed night pharmacists who are passionate about what they do.
Since they're running solo (as a pharmacist), they're the supervisor, director, PIC...and the foremost expert on medication management for every single patient in house.

I would never stick a new pharmacist in that position...unless they're working with another pharmacist.

Years of staff pharmacist experience is a must to work graveyard alone, in my not so humble opinion.

Do you find many people like that? I wouldn't think most people are that passionate about working the night shift?
 
Do you find many people like that? I wouldn't think most people are that passionate about working the night shift?

There are, if not always for the best of reasons by the more conventional thinking.

eg. a pharmacist who doesn't get along with the spouse, and/or one need the money, 7 on 7 off grave yard shift offers the opportunity to avoid family conflict and the schedule to take on another job.
 
There are people like me that love night shift. I would gladly take less pay to work overnight, as that is my preference. I would take a night job over a day job ANY TIME. In my personal experience, I've learned that everything is faster and easier overnight, and there's really nothing I can't do that requires "a daytime" schedule. But that's just my mental outlook on life. I'm a newly grad too, so I can only speak from my limited personal rotation experiences and various other overnight experiences. Seeing other people work overnight that aren't "cut" for this job taught me a few things.

The pharmacy director can tell an obvious difference between me and my student partner working overnight. Don't sign up for it if you're a non functional zombie. A bad reference from your supervisor is not a good idea. Also messing up and causing people harm is bad for people and for your career.

There are people that work overnight and tend to sleep 10+ hours a day because "they work overnight..." as if that means anything. If you can't normalize and sleep a typical 6-8 hours when you work overnight, the lost in time (unless extra sleep is important to you) isn't worth it. Also it's not worth it if you have the "fix my schedule" when I'm off mentality. These people sleep 16+ hours everytime they switch to on/off so it's like wasting an entire day when you start and stop your work week. That's like 52 days a year you just wasted sleeping extra because of your job.

So, in conclusion, if you think overnight is a bad thing, that's pretty much an indicator to NOT do it. If you're desperate, then do what it takes, but try to hold out for a job that fits you better.
 
I'm about to take an overnight hospital staff position. 12 hour shifts so my schedule is probably going to be something like:

Week 1: Sunday, Monday, Wednesday - off Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday
Week 2: Tuesday, Wednesday, Saturday - off Sunday Monday, Thursday, Friday
 
I'm told that the first year is okay then your week off really doesn't start to feel like a week off anymore. Plus I'd be nervous since there would be nobody to help you resolve issues during the night shift (since you are new).

I think there would be less work during the night meaning less stress but I could be wrong.
 
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I'm told that the first year is okay then your week off really doesn't start to feel like a week off anymore. Plus I'd be nervous since there would be nobody to help you resolve issues during the night shift (since you are new).

I think there would be less work during the night meaning less stress but I could be wrong.

Yea that's exactly how I felt. First year it was great. Then afterwards, the week off didn't feel like a week anymore. It felt way shorter. It felt more like 2 days off.
 
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I'm about to take an overnight hospital staff position. 12 hour shifts so my schedule is probably going to be something like:

Week 1: Sunday, Monday, Wednesday - off Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday
Week 2: Tuesday, Wednesday, Saturday - off Sunday Monday, Thursday, Friday

what saturation? Sparta with another job
 
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I can't leave the pharmacy except for bathroom and trips to the cafeteria. Overnight, the nursing secretaries are supposed to come get the drugs.
So spoiled...We have to deliver the drugs ourselves.
 
what happened to the independent gig?
 
for those who braved to take an overnight position with the hope of being able to transfer internally to a day/evening shift, in your experience, how long were you in the overnight shift?
I started last May as a new grad in a 7 on/7 off overnight position. Just made the transition to days a week ago. It was a great learning experience, but I had trouble flipping back to a day schedule on my 7 off and by the time I did it was time to start switching back to nights. Glad to be back on a "normal" sleep/wake schedule.
 
7on/7off means every other week is a vacation. Great for those who like to travel.
 
I've been looking for a full-time hospital job for the past 6 months. Only found one now even though I have 2+ years of experience.

Yeah, but that's only 6 months in probably the most saturated area in the country. Think of poor Angela who's been looking for 4 years all over the place.

Obviously, Sparda, you have good references, and aside from the CVS fiasco, must give good interviews.
 
The last thing you want as a manager is a void in night shift pharmacist coverage.

You also don't want a pharmacist who takes the night position just to get in the door to shift to days. I really need committed night pharmacists who are passionate about what they do.
Since they're running solo (as a pharmacist), they're the supervisor, director, PIC...and the foremost expert on medication management for every single patient in house.

I would never stick a new pharmacist in that position...unless they're working with another pharmacist.

Years of staff pharmacist experience is a must to work graveyard alone, in my not so humble opinion.

What about a residency trained "new grad" who had to do roughly 35-40 overnight on call shifts where they were the solo "clinical" pharmacist, and those same shifts involved order verification for a portion of it? In addition to having to work in the central pharmacy once a week?
 
Yeah, but that's only 6 months in probably the most saturated area in the country. Think of poor Angela who's been looking for 4 years all over the place.

Obviously, Sparda, you have good references, and aside from the CVS fiasco, must give good interviews.

For this hospital position I knew a guy who's cousin works at that hospital. She recommended me to the director and I was able to come in for an interview before the position opened up.
 
Just got the official offer today from the hospital. 3 days a week, 12 hour shifts, $55/hr base rate with 11% differential, union position, 20 vacation days after 6 month probationary period, 10 sick days/year, medical benefits after 2 months, union dues are $46/month, 8 holidays, and 3 personal days earned after 1st year with 1 personal day added every year to a cap of 20 personal days/year.
 
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Just got the official offer today from the hospital. 3 days a week, 12 hour shifts, $55/hr base rate with 11% differential, union position, 20 vacation days after 6 month probationary period, 10 sick days/year, medical benefits after 2 months, union dues are $46/month, 8 holidays, and 3 personal days earned after 1st year with 1 personal day added every year to a cap of 20 personal days/year.

Are the vacation days 8 hour days or 12 hour days?
Are you the only night pharmacist or will you have a partner? Regardless you may find it difficult to 'use' the sick days because you may "feel" bad leaving your partner in a lurch. It's not like dayshift where there's always someone else.
I'm getting $55/hr x 1.11 x 12 x 3 x 52 = $114,285; which is fine, but isn't this NYC? I thought you guys made more up there.

I will tell you, that weird overnight schedule they are going to have you do is non-standard. Almost all night shift pharmacists have the 7 on 7 off. Which at least allows you to get on a sleeping schedule. These 2 days work 1 day off things would be obnoxious.
 
Are the vacation days 8 hour days or 12 hour days?
Are you the only night pharmacist or will you have a partner? Regardless you may find it difficult to 'use' the sick days because you may "feel" bad leaving your partner in a lurch. It's not like dayshift where there's always someone else.
I'm getting $55/hr x 1.11 x 12 x 3 x 52 = $114,285; which is fine, but isn't this NYC? I thought you guys made more up there.

I will tell you, that weird overnight schedule they are going to have you do is non-standard. Almost all night shift pharmacists have the 7 on 7 off. Which at least allows you to get on a sleeping schedule. These 2 days work 1 day off things would be obnoxious.

12 hour days for the vacations.
There would be another night pharmacist and a tech.
Nope, this is in Suffolk county. About 60 miles east of Manhattan. 42 miles east of me. The NYC metropolitan area pay for pharmacists is weird. Queens and Brooklyn pay the lowest, Bronx and Westchester pay the most, Nassau county is a little better than Queens but not too much better, Suffolk is better than Nassau county, and Manhattan and Staten Island pay well also but unless you live there, you'll be spending a lot on transportation. The Verrazano Bridge toll is almost $15/day to get into Staten Island. Manhattan, unless you're willing to sit in traffic on the 59th St/Manhattan/Brooklyn,Williamsburg bridges, there is a $6/toll each way on the RFK Bridge and the Midtown tunnel, not to mention parking, and pretty bad traffic.

The way I'd work out the schedule would be like this as a 2 week schedule:

Work Sunday night, Work Monday night, off Tuesday night, work Wednesday night, off Thursday night, off Friday night, off Saturday night, off Sunday night, off Monday night, work Tuesday night, work Wednesday night, off Thursday night, off Friday night, work Saturday night.

I'm already a nocturnal person. If I'm not working, I'm usually getting up in the afternoon and not coming home from hanging out until 6AM anyway.
 
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Just got the official offer today from the hospital. 3 days a week, 12 hour shifts, $55/hr base rate with 11% differential, union position, 20 vacation days after 6 month probationary period, 10 sick days/year, medical benefits after 2 months, union dues are $46/month, 8 holidays, and 3 personal days earned after 1st year with 1 personal day added every year to a cap of 20 personal days/year.

VERY sweet! Congratulations!
 
Yeah, but that's only 6 months in probably the most saturated area in the country. Think of poor Angela who's been looking for 4 years all over the place.

Obviously, Sparda, you have good references, and aside from the CVS fiasco, must give good interviews.

I am not sure about this person being real or a troll. Market is bad but if you are trying hard to find a position and ready to move anywhere, it shouldn't take you more than 6 months to secure the job. Looking for 4 years and still not finding a job?? This is hard to swallow.
 
I am not sure about this person being real or a troll. Market is bad but if you are trying hard to find a position and ready to move anywhere, it shouldn't take you more than 6 months to secure the job. Looking for 4 years and still not finding a job?? This is hard to swallow.

In the tough markets, having connections with people who do the hiring makes the biggest difference. I interviewed at about 8 different hospitals in the last 12 months. I had an offer for a temp job back in December but there were no benefits so I stayed in independent retail.

My top choice would have been working at Stony Brook in the evening shift but I didn't get selected for that one. Really liked the administration there, the prestige of the institution, and the intelligent elevators and the campus/surrounding area. I mentioned a guy who I worked with at my old hospital who was a shift supervisor here. One of the interviewers (assistant director) was friends with him, but I could tell the director didn't like him. (The director was a female, and this guy I mentioned is one of those types who comes very close to crossing the line when it comes to sexual harassment, and is probably a bigger jokester than me.)

This place isn't too far from Stony Brook except its on the South Shore but the administration is also great here, it's just not a state hospital. I'll be commuting the 40 miles each way for now, but I could totally see myself settling down in that area in the near future. (I think the lady I'm dating right now will be the future Mrs. Sparda.)
 
In the tough markets, having connections with people who do the hiring makes the biggest difference. I interviewed at about 8 different hospitals in the last 12 months. I had an offer for a temp job back in December but there were no benefits so I stayed in independent retail.

My top choice would have been working at Stony Brook in the evening shift but I didn't get selected for that one. Really liked the administration there, the prestige of the institution, and the intelligent elevators and the campus/surrounding area. I mentioned a guy who I worked with at my old hospital who was a shift supervisor here. One of the interviewers (assistant director) was friends with him, but I could tell the director didn't like him. (The director was a female, and this guy I mentioned is one of those types who comes very close to crossing the line when it comes to sexual harassment, and is probably a bigger jokester than me.)

This place isn't too far from Stony Brook except its on the South Shore but the administration is also great here, it's just not a state hospital. I'll be commuting the 40 miles each way for now, but I could totally see myself settling down in that area in the near future. (I think the lady I'm dating right now will be the future Mrs. Sparda.)

Congrats on your new job. Hope you can finally settle down for good. My response was directed at Angela person and how she is looking for a job for 4 years without success. Sounds utter BS to me.. I mean how the hell is it possible??
 
I am not sure about this person being real or a troll. Market is bad but if you are trying hard to find a position and ready to move anywhere, it shouldn't take you more than 6 months to secure the job. Looking for 4 years and still not finding a job?? This is hard to swallow.

We are missing something in this story. She must either have serious personality issues, a high level of professional incompetence, or be unwilling to look outside of a narrow geographical area.
 
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Congrats on your new job. Hope you can finally settle down for good. My response was directed at Angela person and how she is looking for a job for 4 years without success. Sounds utter BS to me.. I mean how the hell is it possible??

I have a lot of good references and connections, maybe she doesn't. I'm a pretty good interviewer as long as there are no clinical/situational questions asked. Also, maintaining part-time/per-diem work while looking for another full-time job is different from being unemployed completely.
 
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and ready to move anywhere, it shouldn't take you more than 6 months to secure the job. Looking for 4 years and still not finding a job?? This is hard to swallow.

We are missing something in this story. She must either have serious personality issues, a high level of professional incompetence, or be unwilling to look outside of a narrow geographical area.

While she has posted at times that she would "move anywhere", when people started giving specific advice on where to look for jobs, she said that she couldn't move there because it was too far away from her (also unemployed) boyfriend, or that she couldn't move there because its in another state and she couldn't afford to get licensed in another state.....so I was being tongue in cheek when I said poor Angela who can't get a job for 4 years, I do believe she *could* get a pharmacy job if she were willing to look outside of the narrow, saturated area that she is currently in.
 
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While she has posted at times that she would "move anywhere", when people started giving specific advice on where to look for jobs, she said that she couldn't move there because it was too far away from her (also unemployed) boyfriend, or that she couldn't move there because its in another state and she couldn't afford to get licensed in another state.....so I was being tongue in cheek when I said poor Angela who can't get a job for 4 years, I do believe she *could* get a pharmacy job if she were willing to look outside of the narrow, saturated area that she is currently in.

It's kind of funny how many people seem unwilling to make sacrifices for their career. The classic cliche of moving away to the big city to make something of yourself exists for a reason, after all. Maybe the boom years had people convinced they could strike it rich while never leaving the comfort of their nest, but I was always expecting to move to where ever opportunity awaited. In fact, I was quite looking forward to it.
 
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Are the vacation days 8 hour days or 12 hour days?
Are you the only night pharmacist or will you have a partner? Regardless you may find it difficult to 'use' the sick days because you may "feel" bad leaving your partner in a lurch. It's not like dayshift where there's always someone else.
I'm getting $55/hr x 1.11 x 12 x 3 x 52 = $114,285; which is fine, but isn't this NYC? I thought you guys made more up there.

I will tell you, that weird overnight schedule they are going to have you do is non-standard. Almost all night shift pharmacists have the 7 on 7 off. Which at least allows you to get on a sleeping schedule. These 2 days work 1 day off things would be obnoxious.

The more metro/populated the area, the lower the pay. This rings true in most places. Retail manager in the sh1ttiest CA boonies makes $75/hr, go to metro, the wage goes down to $65/hr, that's 20k pay difference from a great place to live to a place where snowbirds come to die.

I agree your sentiment.

Grats to your new job. I did GY retail for a while 5 years. Your schedule 3 days on, 1 day off, 1 day on, 5 days off, 2 days on, 2 days off is the crappiest schedule I've ever seen for GY, this is worse than 7 on 7 off. I am sure you will die 5-10 years sooner at least if you do this jobs years to come. Going GY normally will allow you to take a week off straight, that is the biggest perk, this schedule is obviously anything but. There is no way your body will feel normal with that kind of weird ass shift. You will feel zombified most of your days. I'd not touch this job with a 100 feet pole, it WILL fu3k you up for sure, your hormones, eating pattern (weight gain here I come), your heart, increased cancer risk, quality of life, etc...
 
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The more metro/populated the area, the lower the pay. This rings true in most places. Retail manager in the sh1ttiest CA boonies makes $75/hr, go to metro, the wage goes down to $65/hr, that's 20k pay difference from a great place to live to a place where snowbirds come to die.

I agree your sentiment.

Grats to your new job. I did GY retail for a while 5 years. Your schedule 3 days on, 1 day off, 1 day on, 5 days off, 2 days on, 2 days off is the crappiest schedule I've ever seen for GY, this is worse than 7 on 7 off. I am sure you will die 5-10 years sooner at least if you do this jobs years to come. Going GY normally will allow you to take a week off straight, that is the biggest perk, this schedule is obviously anything but. There is no way your body will feel normal with that kind of weird ass shift. You will feel zombified most of your days. I'd not touch this job with a 100 feet pole, it WILL fu3k you up for sure, your hormones, eating pattern (weight gain here I come), your heart, increased cancer risk, quality of life, etc...

I totally agree with this and would not do this long term. While on paper it does sound like a nice offer...i think that is a crappy schedule and will mess your health up.
 
The more metro/populated the area, the lower the pay. This rings true in most places. Retail manager in the sh1ttiest CA boonies makes $75/hr, go to metro, the wage goes down to $65/hr, that's 20k pay difference from a great place to live to a place where snowbirds come to die.

I agree your sentiment.

Grats to your new job. I did GY retail for a while 5 years. Your schedule 3 days on, 1 day off, 1 day on, 5 days off, 2 days on, 2 days off is the crappiest schedule I've ever seen for GY, this is worse than 7 on 7 off. I am sure you will die 5-10 years sooner at least if you do this jobs years to come. Going GY normally will allow you to take a week off straight, that is the biggest perk, this schedule is obviously anything but. There is no way your body will feel normal with that kind of weird ass shift. You will feel zombified most of your days. I'd not touch this job with a 100 feet pole, it WILL fu3k you up for sure, your hormones, eating pattern (weight gain here I come), your heart, increased cancer risk, quality of life, etc...

This is not graveyard retail, this is graveyard hospital staff. I could always schedule it differently, it's just the only way I thought of to get every Friday night off. I'm also designing it based on my girlfriend's schedule to maximize the time we spend together. I don't think I could do the 7 days on/7 days off.

Plus, I'm already nocturnal so even if I was doing 7 days on, 7 days off, I wouldn't be switching to daytime during my off days.
 
This is not graveyard retail, this is graveyard hospital staff. I could always schedule it differently, it's just the only way I thought of to get every Friday night off. I'm also designing it based on my girlfriend's schedule to maximize the time we spend together. I don't think I could do the 7 days on/7 days off.

Plus, I'm already nocturnal so even if I was doing 7 days on, 7 days off, I wouldn't be switching to daytime during my off days.

If you like that weird ass schedule, more props to you. It looks like the hospital doesn't care about the health of its employees with that kind of schedule. Maybe, it's a way for them to avoid working you 7 days in a row due to some union OT rule or something. In any case, if it's not 7 on 7 off (already bad) is a bad schedule for your health (worse).
 
Sparda, you said you scheduled your shift this way, but don't you have to have a willing partner to do the flip side of the schedule? Like Momus, I can't believe any other person but you would like a schedule like that. 7 on, 7 off is the ideal for 3rd shift workers. Even to avoid OT, I've seen better schedules than what you are describing.
 
Sparda, you said you scheduled your shift this way, but don't you have to have a willing partner to do the flip side of the schedule? Like Momus, I can't believe any other person but you would like a schedule like that. 7 on, 7 off is the ideal for 3rd shift workers. Even to avoid OT, I've seen better schedules than what you are describing.

There's like 6 overnight rphs at this hospital and 2 working at a time.

The pay-period is a 2 week pay-period starting on a Sunday and ending on a Saturday. You have to work 6 shifts a pay-period. I'm not really sure how else to structure it. I don't want to work more than 3 nights in a row and I want every Friday night off.
 
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